Faramir personality change - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

10-05-2003, 01:49 AM

So why is faramir such a duesche in the movie as opposed to the book. He is so nice to Frod and Sam in the book and in teh movie he almost gets subverted by the ring. Whats the deal?

Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1 · 10-05-2003, 07:02 AM

Duesche? Huh??Well, I thought it was because of Arwen needing more screen time. Randomness, I know. But this is how I reached this conclusion: ~In the films Arwen seems to be a little more impressionable. Elrond is trying to persuade her to leave. ~Cut to Galadriel who knows of Arwen's plight. She speaks to Elrond to ask why he would forsake men in their need and forget the old alliances. Hey presto, an Elven army sent to Helm's Deep. ~A little while later she says men are weak. Cut to Faramir, and suddenly, when we see it for the first time (and have read the books) a little bit of fear enters your mind. What is PJ going to do?? ~Faramir is the 'weak' man, and takes Frodo prisoner. Etc...until... ~In Osgiliath (what a waste of screen time, when instead of that and instead of having the ambush and Aragorn fall off the cliff, and instead of having the Ents be tricked- but then Pippin would need to be a tad more sensible all the way through and not need to use this opportunity to 'grow up- there could be the proper interrogation of Frodo by Faramir. And none of this need have happened.), the Nazgul comes, and Frodo offers the Ring. For some reason this means that Faramir feels he must let Frodo walk into Mordor. Senseless, really.But it is worth pointing out, as someone said on another thread, that Faramir did not want the Ring for himself. He wanted it for his father, to prove himself to him. I think we will see a bit more of this in the EE.Well, it made sense in my head...

Iargwath · 10-05-2003, 07:11 AM

Welcome to the Downs Slayer I believe this topic has been discussed before on many occasions in this board. You can find some threads with members opinions in these threads:<LI><A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=001445" TARGET=_blank>*TTT Faramir - (David Wenham)*</A> <LI><A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=001555" TARGET=_blank>Peter Jackson Answers Questions About Faramir</A> <LI><A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=001696" TARGET=_blank>The Portrayal of Faramir</A> <LI><A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=001712" TARGET=_blank>Redeeming Faramir</A>You can check if threads have already been composed by using the <A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=search&search_forum=4" TARGET=_blank>Search Function</A> that is located on the top right hand corner of the page

ArathorofBarahir · 10-07-2003, 01:39 PM

I don't have a problem with the way that Faramir was portrayed. David Wenham does a great job as Faramir.

The Only Real Estel · 10-07-2003, 02:56 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>David Wenham does a great job as Faramir. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>True. He does a pretty good job with the script that he's given. My problem isn't with him, but with the script he was given. I'm sure if you check out my thread on 'Book or Movie Faramir?', you can find my opinion (& a bunch of other people's too).

Arwen1858 · 10-07-2003, 05:10 PM

I think David Wenham does a good job, just he has a bad script. Why did they think it neccessary to have Faramir's character like that? They made him out to seem more like Boromir, whereas in the books, he's completely different. And what's with taking them to Osgiliath?? I don't get that. Why did they have to do it? Anyways, I hope they get him right in RotK. Estel, I like your PotC quote in your sig!! Arwen

HCIsland · 10-07-2003, 05:45 PM

Personally, I don't think it's so much a matter of script as it is editting.In RotK, Faramir tells Denethor that he wished he had known his wishes before such hefty a decision was thrust upon him. It begs the question, what would Faramir have done if he knew full well that Denethor wanted the Isildur's Bane brought to Gondor?PJ felt he needed to increase the tension in the Frodo/Sam side of the story or else it would have been completely washed out by what was happening in Rohan. (Note that Tolkien didn't have the same issue as he presented the two stories sequencially rather than simultaneously.) We also know that there was originally a scene between Denethor, Faramir and Boromir set in Osgiliath before Boromir set out for Rivendell. A scene that we will see in the EE.Perhaps a solution to PJ's dilemma regarding tension was to have Denethor express his wishes directly that Isildur's Bane (whatever it may be) be brought to Gondor. Isildur's Bane was mentioned in Faramir's and Boromir's dream and in the EE Fellowship, Boromir makes specific mention of Isildur's Bane at the Council of Elrond.Unfortunately the Osgiliath scene found it's way onto the cutting room floor and this major motivating factor to Faramir's character was lost.Just guess work. The EE Towers will hopefully shed light on the topic.H.C.

Elladan and Elrohir · 10-07-2003, 08:51 PM

If that had happened as you say, HCIsland (Denethor telling Boromir and Faramir to bring the Ring to Minas Tirith), being the person Faramir was, he would not have obeyed his father when the Ring came to him. This is made in the ROTK (the book, not the movie) where Denethor is angry at Faramir for his decision to let Frodo, Sam and Gollum go to Cirith Ungol with the Ring in tow.I stand by previous statements I have made in previous threads. The movie Faramir is a complete misrepresentation of who the book Faramir really is. A distortion, is perhaps a better word.

Lily Bombadil · 10-08-2003, 04:54 PM

In the Movie, Faramir seemed like a drunk. Especially when he said, "Shall I shoot." at the Forbidden Pool. I haven't gotten to the part about him in the book (I'm currently reading T.T.T.).

Dwalin · 10-08-2003, 07:21 PM

I wasn't really pleased with Faramir when I first saw TTT. But I wasn't thrown into fits of despair. I usually go into a movie with my expectations extrordinarily low so I never get too disappointed.I'm making an exception for RotK. I expect that movie to be soo GOOD!!

10-05-2003, 01:49 AM	#1
Slayer Guest Posts: n/a	Faramir personality change So why is faramir such a duesche in the movie as opposed to the book. He is so nice to Frod and Sam in the book and in teh movie he almost gets subverted by the ring. Whats the deal?

10-05-2003, 07:02 AM	#2
Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1 Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Up a tree somewhere in Caras Galadhon...or England Posts: 364	Duesche? Huh??<P>Well, I thought it was because of Arwen needing more screen time. Randomness, I know. But this is how I reached this conclusion:<BR>~In the films Arwen seems to be a little more impressionable. Elrond is trying to persuade her to leave.<BR>~Cut to Galadriel who knows of Arwen's plight. She speaks to Elrond to ask why he would forsake men in their need and forget the old alliances.<BR>Hey presto, an Elven army sent to Helm's Deep.<BR>~A little while later she says men are weak.<BR>Cut to Faramir, and suddenly, when we see it for the first time (and have read the books) a little bit of fear enters your mind. What is PJ going to do?? <BR>~Faramir is the 'weak' man, and takes Frodo prisoner. Etc...until...<BR>~In Osgiliath (what a waste of screen time, when instead of that and instead of having the ambush and Aragorn fall off the cliff, and instead of having the Ents be tricked- but then Pippin would need to be a tad more sensible all the way through and not need to use this opportunity to 'grow up- there could be the proper interrogation of Frodo by Faramir. And none of this need have happened.), the Nazgul comes, and Frodo offers the Ring. For some reason this means that Faramir feels he must let Frodo walk into Mordor. Senseless, really.<P>But it is worth pointing out, as someone said on another thread, that Faramir did not want the Ring for himself. He wanted it for his father, to prove himself to him. I think we will see a bit more of this in the EE.<P>Well, it made sense in my head... __________________ '"Forweg can lead you no longer; for he is dead...I slew him...I will govern this fellowship now, or leave it." "As it was when he joined us, so it is again. He kills to make room."'

10-05-2003, 07:11 AM	#3
Iargwath Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 236	Welcome to the Downs <I>Slayer</I> I believe this topic has been discussed before on many occasions in this board. You can find some threads with members opinions in these threads:<P><LI><A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=001445" TARGET=_blank>TTT Faramir - (David Wenham)</A><BR><LI><A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=001555" TARGET=_blank>Peter Jackson Answers Questions About Faramir</A><BR><LI><A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=001696" TARGET=_blank>The Portrayal of Faramir</A><BR><LI><A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=001712" TARGET=_blank>Redeeming Faramir</A><P>You can check if threads have already been composed by using the <A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=search&search_forum=4" TARGET=_blank>Search Function</A> that is located on the top right hand corner of the page __________________ 'I waited patiently for the Lord; and He inclined to me, and heard my cry'-Psalm 40 My M-e Forum

10-07-2003, 01:39 PM	#4
ArathorofBarahir Wight Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Crickhallow Posts: 247	I don't have a problem with the way that Faramir was portrayed. David Wenham does a great job as Faramir. __________________ King of the Dead: The dead do not suffer the living to pass. Aragorn: You will suffer me.

10-07-2003, 02:56 PM	#5
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>David Wenham does a great job as Faramir. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>True. He does a pretty good job with the script that he's given. My problem isn't with him, but with the script he was given. I'm sure if you check out my thread on 'Book or Movie Faramir?', you can find my opinion (& a bunch of other people's too).

10-07-2003, 05:10 PM	#6
Arwen1858 Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Gondor Posts: 516	I think David Wenham does a good job, just he has a bad script. Why did they think it neccessary to have Faramir's character like that? They made him out to seem more like Boromir, whereas in the books, he's completely different. And what's with taking them to Osgiliath?? I don't get that. Why did they have to do it? Anyways, I hope they get him right in RotK. <BR>Estel, I like your PotC quote in your sig!!<BR>Arwen __________________ Will Turner: "This is either madness or brilliance." Jack Sparrow: "It's remarkable how often those two traits coincide." ~ Pirates of the Caribbean

10-07-2003, 05:45 PM	#7
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	Personally, I don't think it's so much a matter of script as it is editting.<P>In RotK, Faramir tells Denethor that he wished he had known his wishes before such hefty a decision was thrust upon him. It begs the question, what would Faramir have done if he knew full well that Denethor wanted the Isildur's Bane brought to Gondor?<P>PJ felt he needed to increase the tension in the Frodo/Sam side of the story or else it would have been completely washed out by what was happening in Rohan. (Note that Tolkien didn't have the same issue as he presented the two stories sequencially rather than simultaneously.) We also know that there was originally a scene between Denethor, Faramir and Boromir set in Osgiliath before Boromir set out for Rivendell. A scene that we will see in the EE.<P>Perhaps a solution to PJ's dilemma regarding tension was to have Denethor express his wishes directly that Isildur's Bane (whatever it may be) be brought to Gondor. Isildur's Bane was mentioned in Faramir's and Boromir's dream and in the EE Fellowship, Boromir makes specific mention of Isildur's Bane at the Council of Elrond.<P>Unfortunately the Osgiliath scene found it's way onto the cutting room floor and this major motivating factor to Faramir's character was lost.<P>Just guess work. The EE Towers will hopefully shed light on the topic.<P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

10-07-2003, 08:51 PM	#8
Elladan and Elrohir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Halls of Mandos Posts: 332	If that had happened as you say, HCIsland (Denethor telling Boromir and Faramir to bring the Ring to Minas Tirith), being the person Faramir was, he would not have obeyed his father when the Ring came to him. This is made in the ROTK (the book, not the movie) where Denethor is angry at Faramir for his decision to let Frodo, Sam and Gollum go to Cirith Ungol with the Ring in tow.<P>I stand by previous statements I have made in previous threads. The movie Faramir is a complete misrepresentation of who the book Faramir really is. A distortion, is perhaps a better word. __________________ "If you're referring to the incident with the dragon, I was barely involved. All I did was give your uncle a little nudge out of the door." THE HOBBIT - IT'S COMING

10-08-2003, 04:54 PM	#9
Lily Bombadil Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hold on...let me consult this broken compass... Posts: 279	In the Movie, Faramir seemed like a drunk. Especially when he said, "Shall I shoot." at the Forbidden Pool. I haven't gotten to the part about him in the book (I'm currently reading T.T.T.). __________________ "YOU!" "Indeed."

10-08-2003, 07:21 PM	#10
Dwalin Pile O'Bones Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 18	I wasn't really <I>pleased</I> with Faramir when I first saw TTT. But I wasn't thrown into fits of despair. I usually go into a movie with my expectations extrordinarily low so I never get too disappointed.<P>I'm making an exception for RotK. I expect that movie to be soo GOOD!! __________________ "A man who flies from his fear may find he has only taken a shortcut to meet it.”