Hobbit Ages - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Maylin · 01-18-2003, 06:57 PM

In The Fellowship of the Ring, during the party, it has pippin, sam, and merry all looking the same age as they are when the quest starts. Pippin, Sam, and Merry should have only been like 6,12,and 20. (sorry if the numbers aren't exactly right) Any clue why the rest of the hobbits weren't just introduced later in the movie, instead of making them all look the same age?

Manwe Sulimo · 01-18-2003, 07:34 PM

Because 1) The movie wouldn't have been likable to normal audiences with no characters who were younger than 50 and 2) there is no 17-year hiatus between the party and the beginning of the quest in the movie.

doug*platypus · 01-18-2003, 08:23 PM

While it's kind of nice in the book to start off at a plodding pace, and have Gandalf come and go as the years go by, the movie couldn't really afford to have another huge gap in the narration, as there was between the Last Alliance scenes and the intro to The Shire. As well as the fact that we can be introduced to the main hobbits at the party (very nicely done!), it means that there is no hiccup in the pace. It also enabled the filmmakers to carve huge meaty chunks out of the chapters before Bree, as we already know a bit about the hobbits. Placing Merry, Pippin and Sam at their later ages in the party enabled them to cut A Conspiracy Unmasked out completely. All in the name of 'saving time', that false idol Saturn.

Diamond18 · 01-18-2003, 08:24 PM

In the book, at the time of Bilbo's party, Frodo was 33 (obviously), Sam was 28, Merry was 19, and Pippin was 11.So at the time of the Quest, Frodo was 50, Sam was 45, Merry was 36, and Pippin was 28. So, technically, three of the Hobbits were still under 50. As far as appearences, Sam should have looked the oldest, followed by Merry, followed by Frodo ('cause of the Ring) followed by Pippin, who, if they had been totally true to the book, is the only one who should have looked like a heartthrob ( ). So the casting for Sam and Merry was pretty on spot, but they got Pippin and Frodo "mixed up".But like Manwe said, they didn't have any great length of time pass between the party and the Quest, though Bilbo seemed to age a great deal. Oh, they do say "there was no set timeline", but it couldn't have been more than a year or two, unless Frodo let the other three Hobbits share the Ring. Har.Post Scriptum... I do think that Hobbits in general would age slower than humans, so getting younger actors is fine, but I would have liked it to be less obvious that the actor who plays the oldest character is much younger than the actors who play the younger characters. So Elijah should have played Pippin. [ January 18, 2003: Message edited by: Diamond18 ]

Gorwingel · 01-20-2003, 01:05 AM

When I first read the books (after I had seen FOTR) I was shocked at the time span from the birthday party to the start of the journey. I think the way Frodo looks is ok, but they should have tried to show that he is 50 years old by showing that he is wise, though they skipped the 17 year span, so everyone thinks that he is a verry young hobbit.

Child of the 7th Age · 01-20-2003, 01:17 AM

Diamond 18,I believe you have those ages wrong. At the time of the quest (1418), here are the ages: Frodo, 50, born 1368; Sam, 38, born 1380; Merry, 36, born 1382; and Pippin, 28, born 1390. Pippin was the only tweener. At the time of the party (1401), that made Frodo, 33; Sam, 21; Merry, 19; and Pippin,, just 11.

Diamond18 · 01-20-2003, 03:56 PM

Well, we got the same ages for Frodo, Merry and Pippin, at least. I don't remember how I got 45 and 28, but looking in the Appendix (again) I see that it seems you get two different ages for Sam depending on whether you're using the Shire Reckoning or Third Age.According to the Tale of Years, Samwise (and Faramir) were born in 2983, Bilbo's party was in 3001, and the Quest was begun in 1318. That would make Sam 18 at the time of the Party and 35 at the outset of the Quest.But according to Shire Reckoning, he was born in 1380, the Party was in 1401, and the Quest was begun in 1418. That would make Sam 21 at the Party and 38 for the Quest. Just like you said.I hate math. What is my problem?

Diamond18 · 01-25-2003, 05:44 PM

Um, anyone who wants to call me stupid may, if you like, as long as you can explain to me why I get two different ages for Sam. I'm really rather curious; and I double checked, used a calculator...all that.

Lalaith · 01-25-2003, 06:10 PM

Hobbits live longer than men and their ages are, as someone has pointed out, definitely not the same as human (man) ages. A hobbit comes of age,ie is considered an adult, at 33, while the "tweens" (twenties) sound like our teenage years. So Pippin should be like a human of about 17 or so, while Frodo is thirtysomething. I agree that Frodo does feel a bit too young as played by Elijah. Postscript. I hadn't realised Merry was so young at the time of the party. In the book, he comes across as quite grown-up even then.[ January 25, 2003: Message edited by: Lalaith ]

Tar-Palantir · 01-25-2003, 06:15 PM

stoopid! Your math is perfect the dates in the books are conflicting. Samwise Gamgee birth by SR is 1380 which equals 2980 of the TA. Yet appendix B places his birth at 2983 of the TA. wassup with that?Who can say which is more authoritative? Either he was 35 or 38 at the start of the mission...quest...thing. I trust the family tree (Appendix C) more when it comes to the birthdates of the Holbytla.

Diamond18 · 01-25-2003, 06:19 PM

Gaaaasp! Have we come across a typo in the Appendices?

Eruwen · 01-25-2003, 06:56 PM

Oh, c'mon, it's a movie people! Like some have said, they were trying to attract a NORMAL audience. You know, with a lot of teens and younger adults in it. {They are practically the only ones who go to the theaters anyway.} If they had any older guy playing Frodo, then all of the teenagers wouldn't have wanted to come. I think they chose Elijah because he was young and hot to most girls. {Oh, and I do imphasize "most" there.}My point is, they had to make it appealing to the younger audience so they could make it to the top of the Box Office. Which TTT did by the way.

01-18-2003, 06:57 PM	#1
Maylin Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mordor ( or school, same thing) Posts: 81	Hobbit Ages In The Fellowship of the Ring, during the party, it has pippin, sam, and merry all looking the same age as they are when the quest starts. Pippin, Sam, and Merry should have only been like 6,12,and 20. (sorry if the numbers aren't exactly right) <BR> Any clue why the rest of the hobbits weren't just introduced later in the movie, instead of making them all look the same age? __________________ You feel an overwhelming urge to click here

01-18-2003, 07:34 PM	#2
Manwe Sulimo Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Taurelilómëa-tumbalemorna Tumbaletaurëa Lómëanor Posts: 553	Because 1) The movie wouldn't have been likable to normal audiences with no characters who were younger than 50 and 2) there is no 17-year hiatus between the party and the beginning of the quest in the movie. __________________ "Monkeys learn sign language so they can tell the dolphins they love them."

01-18-2003, 08:23 PM	#3
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	While it's kind of nice in the book to start off at a plodding pace, and have Gandalf come and go as the years go by, the movie couldn't really afford to have another huge gap in the narration, as there was between the Last Alliance scenes and the intro to The Shire. <P>As well as the fact that we can be introduced to the main hobbits at the party (very nicely done!), it means that there is no hiccup in the pace. It also enabled the filmmakers to carve huge meaty chunks out of the chapters before Bree, as we already know a bit about the hobbits. Placing Merry, Pippin and Sam at their later ages in the party enabled them to cut A Conspiracy Unmasked out completely. All in the name of 'saving time', that false idol Saturn. __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

01-18-2003, 08:24 PM	#4
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,460	In the book, at the time of Bilbo's party, Frodo was 33 (obviously), Sam was 28, Merry was 19, and Pippin was 11.<P>So at the time of the Quest, Frodo was 50, Sam was 45, Merry was 36, and Pippin was 28. So, technically, three of the Hobbits were still under 50. As far as appearences, Sam should have looked the oldest, followed by Merry, followed by Frodo ('cause of the Ring) followed by Pippin, who, if they had been totally true to the book, is the only one who should have looked like a heartthrob ( ). So the casting for Sam and Merry was pretty on spot, but they got Pippin and Frodo "mixed up".<P>But like Manwe said, they didn't have any great length of time pass between the party and the Quest, though Bilbo seemed to age a great deal. Oh, they do say "there was no set timeline", but it couldn't have been more than a year or two, unless Frodo let the other three Hobbits share the Ring. Har.<P>Post Scriptum... I do think that Hobbits in general would age slower than humans, so getting younger actors is fine, but I would have liked it to be less obvious that the actor who plays the oldest character is much younger than the actors who play the younger characters. So Elijah should have played Pippin. <p>[ January 18, 2003: Message edited by: Diamond18 ] __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

01-20-2003, 01:05 AM	#5
Gorwingel Beholder of the Mists Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Somewhere in the Northwest... for now Posts: 1,419	When I first read the books (after I had seen FOTR) I was shocked at the time span from the birthday party to the start of the journey. I think the way Frodo looks is ok, but they should have tried to show that he is 50 years old by showing that he is wise, though they skipped the 17 year span, so everyone thinks that he is a verry young hobbit. __________________ Wanted - Wonderfully witty quote that consists of pure brilliance

01-20-2003, 01:17 AM	#6
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Diamond 18,<P>I believe you have those ages wrong. At the time of the quest (1418), here are the ages: Frodo, 50, born 1368; Sam, 38, born 1380; Merry, 36, born 1382; and Pippin, 28, born 1390. Pippin was the only tweener. <P>At the time of the party (1401), that made Frodo, 33; Sam, 21; Merry, 19; and Pippin,, just 11. __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

01-20-2003, 03:56 PM	#7
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,460	Well, we got the same ages for Frodo, Merry and Pippin, at least. <P>I don't remember how I got 45 and 28, but looking in the Appendix (again) I see that it seems you get two different ages for Sam depending on whether you're using the Shire Reckoning or Third Age.<P>According to the Tale of Years, Samwise (and Faramir) were born in 2983, Bilbo's party was in 3001, and the Quest was begun in 1318. That would make Sam 18 at the time of the Party and 35 at the outset of the Quest.<P>But according to Shire Reckoning, he was born in 1380, the Party was in 1401, and the Quest was begun in 1418. That would make Sam 21 at the Party and 38 for the Quest. Just like you said.<P>I hate math. What is my problem? __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

01-25-2003, 05:44 PM	#8
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,460	Um, anyone who wants to call me stupid may, if you like, as long as you can explain to me why I get two different ages for Sam. I'm really rather curious; and I double checked, used a calculator...all that. __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

01-25-2003, 06:10 PM	#9
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,779	Hobbits live longer than men and their ages are, as someone has pointed out, definitely not the same as human (man) ages. <BR>A hobbit comes of age,ie is considered an adult, at 33, while the "tweens" (twenties) sound like our teenage years.<BR>So Pippin should be like a human of about 17 or so, while Frodo is thirtysomething. I agree that Frodo does feel a bit too young as played by Elijah.<BR>Postscript. I hadn't realised Merry was so young at the time of the party. In the book, he comes across as quite grown-up even then.<p>[ January 25, 2003: Message edited by: Lalaith ] __________________ Out went the candle, and we were left darkling

01-25-2003, 06:15 PM	#10
Tar-Palantir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: napa valley, ca Posts: 496	stoopid! <P>Your math is perfect the dates in the books are conflicting. Samwise Gamgee birth by SR is 1380 which equals 2980 of the TA. Yet appendix B places his birth at 2983 of the TA. wassup with that?<P>Who can say which is more authoritative? Either he was 35 or 38 at the start of the mission...quest...thing. I trust the family tree (Appendix C) more when it comes to the birthdates of the <I>Holbytla</I>. __________________ History shows again and again How nature points up the folly of men Go, go, Godzilla!

01-25-2003, 06:19 PM	#11
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,460	Gaaaasp! Have we come across a typo in the Appendices? __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

01-25-2003, 06:56 PM	#12
Eruwen Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 892	Oh, c'mon, it's a movie people! Like some have said, they were trying to attract a NORMAL audience. You know, with a lot of teens and younger adults in it. {They are practically the only ones who go to the theaters anyway.} <P>If they had any older guy playing Frodo, then all of the teenagers wouldn't have wanted to come. I think they chose Elijah because he was young and hot to most girls. {Oh, and I do imphasize "most" there.}<P>My point is, they had to make it appealing to the younger audience so they could make it to the top of the Box Office. Which TTT did by the way.