Elves vs Rangers - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

12-22-2002, 10:04 PM

A lot of people noticed that the Elves were not supposed to be at Helms Deep (although they did a spectacular performance). But what about the rangers of the north that were left out....Of all the things that did not happen this is the only thing that bugs me! I Love the rangers and the hard determination of the northern Dunedain.."I gave hope to Estel, little hope now remains to me.." - Truly spoken, indeed. What do you others think of it?

Aylwen Dreamsong · 12-22-2002, 10:11 PM

I believe the Rangers aren't supposed to appear until RotK anyway. I noticed that too. My friend went "I like them elves, they've got class." I kept saying, "But they're not supposed to be there!"Anyway, Rangers=RotK, I don't think they'll leave them out. But then again, I could be wrong.Aylwen

Manwe Sulimo · 12-23-2002, 12:36 PM

Yeah, the Dúnedain, Elladan, and Elrohir didn't arrive until Théoden and Aragorn had already departed from Isengard and were making their way to Dunharrow. Then they went on the Paths of the Dead, and didn't really make a substantial appearance until the Battle of Morannon. They won't have a big part.

12-23-2002, 05:28 PM

While I too, am a fan of the Dunedain, for thematic purposes I think the Elves worked better in the movie.1. We already know who the Elves are. No need to take up more time in an already detail laden script to explain who the Dunedain are and how they fit into the whole story.2. In FOTR and in the beginning of TTT, we see that there is some sort of rift between elves and men (think Elronds distain "men are weak...and Theoden's acknowledgment that they are alone). This continues with that them and allows an alliance to be reforged. I think with PJ's vision and what we all know of ROTK, maybe this will make for a stronger ending....Besides, it was just plain beautiful to watch the elves enter and Aragorn and Legolas's excitement at seeing them.

Namarie · 12-23-2002, 06:16 PM

Yes, the elves did work better yet I wanted the rangers to come! God Damit! And if the Rangers dont come how does Eomer's sister (sry forgot her name) ride off and pretend to be one, she certainly cant pretend to be an elf because she doesnt have pointy ears but besides that she could pass for a guy eld, the long blonde hair and all

doug*platypus · 12-28-2002, 05:55 AM

In ROTK we have never heard of Halbarad and co until we meet them, and it takes Aragorn all of one sentence to explain who they are. Of course, we don't know for sure yet that they have been left out.The Elves at Helm's Deep may have brought in a nice theme about peoples of Middle-Earth uniting, and old alliances being kept. But, it completely destroys the idea of the Firstborn decreasing, and man coming into the dominion of the earth. The Lord of the Rings is a middle-ground between Tolkien's magical world of the Elves, Sauron, etc. and our own modern world in which all such things have completely vanished.Also, by leading the Elves instead of men, Aragorn has not progressed much further down his path to Kingship. I think that whatever small cool factor the Elves may have brought to Helm's Deep, they took more than they gave. I thought Karl Urban was a brilliant Eomer, and I would've much rather had him and his eored at Helm's Deep. Where were they going anyway?? Any Elf cool factor could've been kept by showing short scenes of the battles for Lothlorien (big ask, but we're talking wishlist here).That said though, it was good to see Craig Parker get butchered (if you've seen Shortland Street you'll understand).

Nehani · 07-20-2003, 03:27 PM

I am torn between the Rangers or the Elves in the Battle of Helm's Deep. I enjoyed the montonous Elves in the battle, but I'm still a big fan of the Rangers. Can't we have both?

Silmiel of Imladris · 07-20-2003, 03:41 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Yeah, the Dúnedain, Elladan, and Elrohir didn't arrive until Théoden and Aragorn had already departed from Isengard and were making their way to Dunharrow. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>They had better not leave Elladan and Elrohir out or I am going to be ticked. If PJ decides to have Aragorn remember the pathes of the dead by his little old self then he is meddeling way too much for me.

Horse-Maiden of the Shire · 07-20-2003, 05:05 PM

I'm sorry, Silmiel, but I believe that Elrond is portrayed as only having one child: Arwen. I don't think that our favourite twins will be there. At least, that's what I have heard. Hopefully I heard wrong. And Aragorn does enter the Paths of the Dead.

Silmiel of Imladris · 07-20-2003, 06:46 PM

:sticks out tongue in PJ's direction: Phhhhhhttttt!!!! I hope they are in the movie regardless.

Meela · 07-20-2003, 07:25 PM

I know I'm making myself look like an idiot, but I'm gonna say how much I love the pretty elves and how they were a great part of Helm's Deep. I'm never bothered by any changes made while adapting the book to the movie, and the elves are one of those changes. So I have no problem.I would never have associated rangers with The Two Towers. They should be introduced in the third movie, not the second. It just seems fitting.

Nehani · 07-21-2003, 11:31 AM

I liked the Elves very much so, but I have a "connection", as you might call it, with the Rangers. I think I can see what PJ is trying to do, and I hope the Rangers have a good role in ROTK.

12-22-2002, 10:04 PM	#1
Mordhol Guest Posts: n/a	Elves vs Rangers A lot of people noticed that the Elves were not supposed to be at Helms Deep (although they did a spectacular performance). But what about the rangers of the north that were left out....<P>Of all the things that did not happen this is the only thing that bugs me! I Love the rangers and the hard determination of the northern Dunedain..<P>"I gave hope to Estel, little hope now remains to me.." - Truly spoken, indeed. What do you others think of it?

12-22-2002, 10:11 PM	#2
Aylwen Dreamsong The Melody of Misery Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Island of Conclusions (You get there by jumping!)... Posts: 1,147	I believe the Rangers aren't supposed to appear until RotK anyway. <P>I noticed that too. My friend went "I like them elves, they've got class." I kept saying, "But they're not supposed to be there!"<P>Anyway, Rangers=RotK, I don't think they'll leave them out. But then again, I could be wrong.<P>Aylwen __________________ ...Come down now, they'll say. But everything looks perfect from far away - Come down now! But we'll stay.

12-23-2002, 12:36 PM	#3
Manwe Sulimo Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Taurelilómëa-tumbalemorna Tumbaletaurëa Lómëanor Posts: 553	Yeah, the Dúnedain, Elladan, and Elrohir didn't arrive until Théoden and Aragorn had already departed from Isengard and were making their way to Dunharrow. Then they went on the Paths of the Dead, and didn't really make a substantial appearance until the Battle of Morannon. They won't have a big part. __________________ "Monkeys learn sign language so they can tell the dolphins they love them."

12-23-2002, 05:28 PM	#4
Estel Edain Guest Posts: n/a	While I too, am a fan of the Dunedain, for thematic purposes I think the Elves worked better in the movie.<P>1. We already know who the Elves are. No need to take up more time in an already detail laden script to explain who the Dunedain are and how they fit into the whole story.<P>2. In FOTR and in the beginning of TTT, we see that there is some sort of rift between elves and men (think Elronds distain "men are weak...and Theoden's acknowledgment that they are alone). This continues with that them and allows an alliance to be reforged. I think with PJ's vision and what we all know of ROTK, maybe this will make for a stronger ending....Besides, it was just plain beautiful to watch the elves enter and Aragorn and Legolas's excitement at seeing them.

12-23-2002, 06:16 PM	#5
Namarie Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: USA Posts: 18	Yes, the elves did work better yet I wanted the rangers to come! God Damit! And if the Rangers dont come how does Eomer's sister (sry forgot her name) ride off and pretend to be one, she certainly cant pretend to be an elf because she doesnt have pointy ears but besides that she could pass for a guy eld, the long blonde hair and all __________________ "Yes, we've had one breakfast, but what aobut second breakfast?"

12-28-2002, 05:55 AM	#6
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	In ROTK we have never heard of Halbarad and co until we meet them, and it takes Aragorn all of one sentence to explain who they are. Of course, we don't know for sure yet that they have been left out.<P>The Elves at Helm's Deep may have brought in a nice theme about peoples of Middle-Earth uniting, and old alliances being kept. But, it completely destroys the idea of the Firstborn decreasing, and man coming into the dominion of the earth. The Lord of the Rings is a middle-ground between Tolkien's magical world of the Elves, Sauron, etc. and our own modern world in which all such things have completely vanished.<P>Also, by leading the Elves instead of men, Aragorn has not progressed much further down his path to Kingship. I think that whatever small cool factor the Elves may have brought to Helm's Deep, they took more than they gave. I thought Karl Urban was a brilliant Eomer, and I would've much rather had him and his <I>eored</I> at Helm's Deep. Where were <I>they</I> going anyway?? Any Elf cool factor could've been kept by showing short scenes of the battles for Lothlorien (big ask, but we're talking wishlist here).<P>That said though, it was good to see Craig Parker get butchered (if you've seen Shortland Street you'll understand). __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

07-20-2003, 03:27 PM	#7
Nehani Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Mirkwood (or something like it) Posts: 80	I am torn between the Rangers or the Elves in the Battle of Helm's Deep. I enjoyed the montonous Elves in the battle, but I'm still a big fan of the Rangers. Can't we have both? __________________ "Been A Long Road To Follow, Been There And Gone Tomorrow Without Saying Goodbye To Yesterday..." "The Way Is Closed. It Was Made By Those Who are Dead. The Way is Closed."

07-20-2003, 03:41 PM	#8
Silmiel of Imladris Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Looking into a crystal ball- still see nothing Posts: 395	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Yeah, the Dúnedain, Elladan, and Elrohir didn't arrive until Théoden and Aragorn had already departed from Isengard and were making their way to Dunharrow. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>They had better not leave Elladan and Elrohir out or I am going to be ticked. If PJ decides to have Aragorn remember the pathes of the dead by his little old self then he is meddeling way too much for me. __________________ Legolas 20 ales later: I feel something, a slight tingling in my fingers. I think it's affecting me. Figwit on his name: Are you suggesting that I have the wit of a fig?

07-20-2003, 05:05 PM	#9
Horse-Maiden of the Shire Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Chillaxin' with Glorfindel-441 miles on the RtR Posts: 1,197	I'm sorry, Silmiel, but I believe that Elrond is portrayed as only having one child: Arwen. I don't think that our favourite twins will be there. At least, that's what I have heard. Hopefully I heard wrong. And Aragorn <I>does</I> enter the Paths of the Dead. __________________ "There's a big...machine in the sky...some kind of electric snake...coming straight at us." "Shoot it," said my attorney. "Not yet...I want to study its habits."

07-20-2003, 06:46 PM	#10
Silmiel of Imladris Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Looking into a crystal ball- still see nothing Posts: 395	:sticks out tongue in PJ's direction: Phhhhhhttttt!!!! I hope they are in the movie regardless. __________________ Legolas 20 ales later: I feel something, a slight tingling in my fingers. I think it's affecting me. Figwit on his name: Are you suggesting that I have the wit of a fig?

07-20-2003, 07:25 PM	#11
Meela Denethor's True Love Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mirkwood. With Thranduil... swoon Posts: 2,049	I know I'm making myself look like an idiot, but I'm gonna say how much I love the pretty elves and how they were a great part of Helm's Deep.<BR>I'm never bothered by any changes made while adapting the book to the movie, and the elves are one of those changes. So I have no problem.<P>I would never have associated rangers with The Two Towers. They should be introduced in the third movie, not the second. It just seems fitting. __________________ 'The Hobbit' 1st impressions: 1. Thorin is hot... Oh god, I fancy a dwarf. 2. Thranduil is hotter. 3. Is that... Figwit! 4. Does Elijah Wood never age? 2nd: It's all about Fili & Kili, really. 3rd: BARD! OMG, Bard.

07-21-2003, 11:31 AM	#12
Nehani Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Mirkwood (or something like it) Posts: 80	I liked the Elves very much so, but I have a "connection", as you might call it, with the Rangers. I think I can see what PJ is trying to do, and I hope the Rangers have a good role in ROTK. __________________ "Been A Long Road To Follow, Been There And Gone Tomorrow Without Saying Goodbye To Yesterday..." "The Way Is Closed. It Was Made By Those Who are Dead. The Way is Closed."