Who exactly is Feanor and Celebrimbor? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

03-16-2002, 09:07 AM

i'm kinda new at this...so i was just wondering..urm...the simallarion talks about Feanor and Celebrimbor and it is kind of confusing for me? Who exactly is Feanor and Celebrimbor? i only know that Celebrimbor forged the 3 elven rings...i would really appreciate it. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Ahanarion · 03-16-2002, 09:45 AM

Feanor is Celebrimbor's Grandfather. Feanor Forged the Silmarils the most prized jewels ever made and what most of the Silmarillion is about. Celebrimbor forged the three Elven rings with the help of Sauron who was disguissed at that time. Hope that helps.

[ March 16, 2002: Message edited by: Ahanarion ]

Mhoram · 03-16-2002, 10:22 AM

I just don't understand how people can read the silmarilion and so completely not get it.

obloquy · 03-16-2002, 01:07 PM

There is a novices and newcomers board here.

Thingol · 03-16-2002, 01:29 PM

Also, Celbrimor did not have the help of Sauron when forging the 3 Elven rings, they were never touched by Sauron.

03-16-2002, 09:01 PM

Thanx so much...the book is kinda confusing...u have to read pages over again to understand it....

03-16-2002, 11:20 PM

i have another question...at the back cover of the book in the simallarion it says that feanor is the greatest of the elves but if feanor forged the jewels then why is he considered as greatest of the elves?

does that mean that feanor and celebrimbor are bad elves or smthing? cuz they forged the rings and the jewels? i wuld really appreciate it if somebody wuld help me out cuz i have different resources and they all say something different...thanx [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Mhoram · 03-17-2002, 04:43 AM

Not at all, Feanor and Celebrimbor created wonderful things, sadly these wonderful things lead to great evils, but it really wasn't their fault. The fact that Feanor is considered the greatest of the elves isn't really connected to the Silmarils. He might not have been able to create them if he wasn't, but his strength is the cause, the jewels are the effect, not the other way around.

Thalionyulma · 03-17-2002, 05:00 AM

Another way I look at it though is, if it weren't for the Feanor forging the Silmarils many great things would not have come to pass in ME. Even the three elven Rings were made to aid the elves in "enhancing" (okay, I couldn't think of another description) Middle Earth.

(I actually loved the way the Sun and Moon were created because Feanor refuse to give the jewels to the Valar!)

Perhaps Iluvatar allowed all these things for a greater purpose (as He always did).

[img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Mhoram · 03-17-2002, 05:07 AM

Quote:

And it was told by the Vanyar who held vigil with the Valar that when the messengers declared to Manwë the answers of Fëanor to his heralds, Manwë wept and bowed his head. But at that last word of Fëanor: that at the least the Noldor should do deeds to live in song for ever, he raised his head, as one that hears a voice far off, and he said: 'So shall it be! Dear-bought those songs shall be accounted, and yet shall be well-bought. For the price could be no other. Thus even as Eru spoke to us shall beauty not before conceived be brought into Eä, and evil yet be good to have been.'
But Mandos said: 'And yet remain evil. To me shall Fëanor come soon.'

piosenniel · 03-17-2002, 02:20 PM

Quote:

i'm kinda new at this...so i was just wondering..urm...the simallarion talks about Feanor and Celebrimbor and it is kind of confusing for me? Who exactly is Feanor and Celebrimbor? i only know that Celebrimbor forged the 3 elven rings...i would really appreciate it

serenide - welcome!
here is a very helpful book for looking up references that you are unsure of as you read Tolkien:
"The Tolkien Companion" by J.E.A. Tyler

keep reading! - eventually all those facts will sort themselves out and stick in your mind in a recognizable way!

03-17-2002, 07:59 PM

ok now im kinda confused...if they created many great things why did tolkien use the word "forged" in making the rings and the jewels...?

Bruce MacCulloch · 03-17-2002, 08:30 PM

Forge (verb) - 1. to form (as metal) by heating and hammering 2. to form or bring into being especially by an expenditure of effort

A dictionary is a wonderful thing.

[ March 17, 2002: Message edited by: Bruce MacCulloch ]

Thalionyulma · 03-19-2002, 01:51 AM

Serenide,
there's an "encyclopedia" located in the Barrow-Downs welcome page... it'll really help you with the different characters (and certain topics) of the Silmarillion. There's also an index of names (I beleive) at the end of the book.

As for the words used... writers use elaborate words in their stories. Like Bruce says - a dictionary is a wonderful thing. I never read a book without my dictionary beside me.
[img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Ahanarion · 03-24-2002, 02:06 PM

What I ment by helped by Sauron was not direct help but didn't it say that Sauron taught the Elves the secret of forging the rings.

[ March 24, 2002: Message edited by: Ahanarion ]

Marileangorifurnimaluim · 03-25-2002, 02:34 AM

What makes the Silmarillion confusing for many is the fact that it is in essence an unfinished work by Tolkien. Christopher Tolkien in publishing it posthoumously edited it very lightly, and took great pains to add nothing, and subtract little.

Alack and alas, had Tolkien been able to publish it with the The Lord of the Rings (as he intended) he would have polished it and fixed the narrative, which jumps oddly, gives away plotlines before the events even occur, and has limited dialogue - Tolkien's greatest strength - and unevenly fleshed out storylines. These make it a harder read than it would have been, I'm certain.

The Silm. is beautiful and powerful, but in a way it makes your heart ache to think what could have been if Tolkien had finished it and other of his stories.

03-16-2002, 09:07 AM	#1
Serenide Guest Posts: n/a	Who exactly is Feanor and Celebrimbor? i'm kinda new at this...so i was just wondering..urm...the simallarion talks about Feanor and Celebrimbor and it is kind of confusing for me? Who exactly is Feanor and Celebrimbor? i only know that Celebrimbor forged the 3 elven rings...i would really appreciate it. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

03-16-2002, 09:45 AM	#2
Ahanarion Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tirion upon Tuna Posts: 94	Feanor is Celebrimbor's Grandfather. Feanor Forged the Silmarils the most prized jewels ever made and what most of the Silmarillion is about. Celebrimbor forged the three Elven rings with the help of Sauron who was disguissed at that time. Hope that helps. [ March 16, 2002: Message edited by: Ahanarion ] __________________ Ohtari i Noldor Hosta!

03-16-2002, 01:29 PM	#5
Thingol Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 259	Also, Celbrimor did not have the help of Sauron when forging the 3 Elven rings, they were never touched by Sauron. __________________ Yet the lies that Melkor, the mighty and accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days.

03-17-2002, 08:30 PM	#13
Bruce MacCulloch Dead Man of Dunharrow Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 651	Forge (verb) - 1. to form (as metal) by heating and hammering 2. to form or bring into being especially by an expenditure of effort A dictionary is a wonderful thing. [ March 17, 2002: Message edited by: Bruce MacCulloch ] __________________ `A blunderbuss, was it?' said he, scratching his head. `I thought it was horseflies!'

03-24-2002, 02:06 PM	#15
Ahanarion Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tirion upon Tuna Posts: 94	What I ment by helped by Sauron was not direct help but didn't it say that Sauron taught the Elves the secret of forging the rings. [ March 24, 2002: Message edited by: Ahanarion ] __________________ Ohtari i Noldor Hosta!

03-16-2002, 10:22 AM	#3
Mhoram Dead and Loving It Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: The land of fast cars and loud guitars. Posts: 361	I just don't understand how people can read the silmarilion and so completely not get it.

03-16-2002, 01:07 PM	#4
obloquy Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: WA Posts: 939	There is a novices and newcomers board here.

03-16-2002, 09:01 PM	#6
Serenide Guest Posts: n/a	Thanx so much...the book is kinda confusing...u have to read pages over again to understand it....

03-16-2002, 11:20 PM	#7
Serenide Guest Posts: n/a	i have another question...at the back cover of the book in the simallarion it says that feanor is the greatest of the elves but if feanor forged the jewels then why is he considered as greatest of the elves? does that mean that feanor and celebrimbor are bad elves or smthing? cuz they forged the rings and the jewels? i wuld really appreciate it if somebody wuld help me out cuz i have different resources and they all say something different...thanx [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

03-17-2002, 04:43 AM	#8
Mhoram Dead and Loving It Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: The land of fast cars and loud guitars. Posts: 361	Not at all, Feanor and Celebrimbor created wonderful things, sadly these wonderful things lead to great evils, but it really wasn't their fault. The fact that Feanor is considered the greatest of the elves isn't really connected to the Silmarils. He might not have been able to create them if he wasn't, but his strength is the cause, the jewels are the effect, not the other way around.

03-17-2002, 05:00 AM	#9
Thalionyulma Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: across the sea Posts: 295	Another way I look at it though is, if it weren't for the Feanor forging the Silmarils many great things would not have come to pass in ME. Even the three elven Rings were made to aid the elves in "enhancing" (okay, I couldn't think of another description) Middle Earth. (I actually loved the way the Sun and Moon were created because Feanor refuse to give the jewels to the Valar!) Perhaps Iluvatar allowed all these things for a greater purpose (as He always did). [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

03-17-2002, 07:59 PM	#12
serenide Guest Posts: n/a	ok now im kinda confused...if they created many great things why did tolkien use the word "forged" in making the rings and the jewels...?

03-19-2002, 01:51 AM	#14
Thalionyulma Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: across the sea Posts: 295	Serenide, there's an "encyclopedia" located in the Barrow-Downs welcome page... it'll really help you with the different characters (and certain topics) of the Silmarillion. There's also an index of names (I beleive) at the end of the book. As for the words used... writers use elaborate words in their stories. Like Bruce says - a dictionary is a wonderful thing. I never read a book without my dictionary beside me. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

03-25-2002, 02:34 AM	#16
Marileangorifurnimaluim Eerie Forest Spectre Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Buried in scrolls of fanfiction Posts: 798	What makes the Silmarillion confusing for many is the fact that it is in essence an unfinished work by Tolkien. Christopher Tolkien in publishing it posthoumously edited it very lightly, and took great pains to add nothing, and subtract little. Alack and alas, had Tolkien been able to publish it with the The Lord of the Rings (as he intended) he would have polished it and fixed the narrative, which jumps oddly, gives away plotlines before the events even occur, and has limited dialogue - Tolkien's greatest strength - and unevenly fleshed out storylines. These make it a harder read than it would have been, I'm certain. The Silm. is beautiful and powerful, but in a way it makes your heart ache to think what could have been if Tolkien had finished it and other of his stories. __________________ Deserves death! I daresay he does... And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them?