What if Gollum had repented? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Knight of Gondor · 11-26-2002, 10:07 PM

I had planned to ask this question anyway, and then to my surprise, the teacher of my LotR study group read from a Tolkien essay on what would have happened if Gollum had repented of the Ring. According to Tolkien, Gollum then would have thrown himself in to the fires. How sad!

But actually, my question took it a step further. What if the Ring had been destroyed and Gollum survived? I invisioned the eagles carrying the pitiful, catatonic Gollum away to safety with the other hobbits, and Gollum dying shortly thereafter, but more back to his Smeagol-self. Kind of another aspect of the bitter-sweet ending. Does this sound logical to ya'll?

Arwen Imladris · 11-27-2002, 03:51 PM

I think that he would go and live with Sam and Frodo at Bag end! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Wouldn't that be funny? Either that or he would eventually die of somthing else or would go off wandering in the south somewhere.

Arwen1858 · 11-27-2002, 04:59 PM

Maybe he would die of grief because his precious is gone? I can't imagine Gollum living long after the ring being destroyed. It had such a hold over him, I think it would have killed him. Just my thoughts, anyways.
Arwen

Mhoram · 11-27-2002, 05:12 PM

He was already far far older than he should have lived, it's possible that if the ring were destroyed all that old age would catch up to him instantly. And if not it most likely wouuld have broken his mind and he would have been hopelessly insane.

thorondil · 11-27-2002, 05:45 PM

I agree...the only thing that kept him alive was the ring, and after he lost it (or rather, it lost him) his desire for it. Gollum repenting...even if he did, think how long he would be in Mandos.

Even the Noldor:

Quote:

There long shall ye abide and yearn for your bodies, and find little pity though all whom ye have slain should entreat for you.

-Imrahil- · 11-27-2002, 06:15 PM

He would probably have died of old age once the ring was destroyed. He lived only for the ring, it kept his desire alive, this kept him alive. Once it was destroyed he would probably lose his will to live.

Knight of Gondor · 11-27-2002, 09:47 PM

Oh, I always did figure that he would die very soon after the Ring's death. I just wondered if he would have had a sad, yet relieved state of mind...would he say "It is a relief, yet a torture" or something profound like that.

Kalimac · 11-28-2002, 01:03 AM

I can't honestly see Gollum wanting to live even a minute after the Ring had perished; unfortunately it's hard to picture him being sad but relieved, because it's impossible to visualize a Gollum who doesn't have the Ring as the core of his existence. The Ring has basically taken the place of Gollum's heart; it's as precious to him as a normal person's heart is to him, and has become just as impossible to live without (though obviously it doesn't need to be physically present for Gollum, it just needs to exist). But once the Ring was melting down in the fire it would be as if his heart had been destroyed - he probably wouldn't have any thoughts whatsoever except that he had to be faithful to the Ring to the end - hence, casting himself into the fire. And he'd probably get pretty murderous if Frodo or Sam tried to stop him. (Not, unfortunately, that I can picture Sam trying *that* hard).

Kiara · 11-29-2002, 02:42 PM

My thought? I'm sad Gollum didn't repent. He had more than enough opportunities to do so, and though he was a slimy little trickster, I did feel awful pity towards him. I imagine if he HAD repented (in time), he would have insisted on helping to bear the burden of the ring and continued to support Frodo and Sam through Mordor (and then, as everyone else has suggested, he probably would have died upon its destruction in the cracks of doom).

But look at this last idea: if Frodo, the bearer of the ring for sometime, struggled with the temptation of it just before its removal from ME, who's to say that the exact same scene would not have played out (Gollum being tied even more tightly to the fate of the ring) even if Gollum DID repent earlier?

11-26-2002, 10:07 PM	#1
Knight of Gondor Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 744	What if Gollum had repented? I had planned to ask this question anyway, and then to my surprise, the teacher of my LotR study group read from a Tolkien essay on what would have happened if Gollum had repented of the Ring. According to Tolkien, Gollum then would have thrown himself in to the fires. How sad! But actually, my question took it a step further. What if the Ring had been destroyed and Gollum survived? I invisioned the eagles carrying the pitiful, catatonic Gollum away to safety with the other hobbits, and Gollum dying shortly thereafter, but more back to his Smeagol-self. Kind of another aspect of the bitter-sweet ending. Does this sound logical to ya'll? __________________ Eagerly awaiting the REAL Return of the King - Jesus Christ! Revelation 19:11-16

11-27-2002, 03:51 PM	#2
Arwen Imladris Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a box with a fox Posts: 1,347	I think that he would go and live with Sam and Frodo at Bag end! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Wouldn't that be funny? Either that or he would eventually die of somthing else or would go off wandering in the south somewhere. __________________ "Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once."

11-27-2002, 04:59 PM	#3
Arwen1858 Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Gondor Posts: 516	Maybe he would die of grief because his precious is gone? I can't imagine Gollum living long after the ring being destroyed. It had such a hold over him, I think it would have killed him. Just my thoughts, anyways. Arwen __________________ Will Turner: "This is either madness or brilliance." Jack Sparrow: "It's remarkable how often those two traits coincide." ~ Pirates of the Caribbean

11-27-2002, 06:15 PM	#6
-Imrahil- Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Dol Amroth, upon the Bay of Belfalas Posts: 259	He would probably have died of old age once the ring was destroyed. He lived only for the ring, it kept his desire alive, this kept him alive. Once it was destroyed he would probably lose his will to live. __________________ My body is broken. I go to my fathers. And even in their mighty company I shall not now be ashamed. I felled the black serpent. A grim morn, and a glad day, and a golden sunset!

11-27-2002, 09:47 PM	#7
Knight of Gondor Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 744	Oh, I always did figure that he would die very soon after the Ring's death. I just wondered if he would have had a sad, yet relieved state of mind...would he say "It is a relief, yet a torture" or something profound like that. __________________ Eagerly awaiting the REAL Return of the King - Jesus Christ! Revelation 19:11-16

11-27-2002, 05:12 PM	#4
Mhoram Dead and Loving It Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: The land of fast cars and loud guitars. Posts: 361	He was already far far older than he should have lived, it's possible that if the ring were destroyed all that old age would catch up to him instantly. And if not it most likely wouuld have broken his mind and he would have been hopelessly insane.

11-28-2002, 01:03 AM	#8
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	I can't honestly see Gollum wanting to live even a minute after the Ring had perished; unfortunately it's hard to picture him being sad but relieved, because it's impossible to visualize a Gollum who doesn't have the Ring as the core of his existence. The Ring has basically taken the place of Gollum's heart; it's as precious to him as a normal person's heart is to him, and has become just as impossible to live without (though obviously it doesn't need to be physically present for Gollum, it just needs to exist). But once the Ring was melting down in the fire it would be as if his heart had been destroyed - he probably wouldn't have any thoughts whatsoever except that he had to be faithful to the Ring to the end - hence, casting himself into the fire. And he'd probably get pretty murderous if Frodo or Sam tried to stop him. (Not, unfortunately, that I can picture Sam trying that hard). __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.

11-29-2002, 02:42 PM	#9
Kiara Animated Skeleton Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: wish 'twere Ireland Posts: 50	My thought? I'm sad Gollum didn't repent. He had more than enough opportunities to do so, and though he was a slimy little trickster, I did feel awful pity towards him. I imagine if he HAD repented (in time), he would have insisted on helping to bear the burden of the ring and continued to support Frodo and Sam through Mordor (and then, as everyone else has suggested, he probably would have died upon its destruction in the cracks of doom). But look at this last idea: if Frodo, the bearer of the ring for sometime, struggled with the temptation of it just before its removal from ME, who's to say that the exact same scene would not have played out (Gollum being tied even more tightly to the fate of the ring) even if Gollum DID repent earlier? __________________ "What if you slept, and what if in your sleep you dreamed, and what if, in your dream, you went to paradise and there plucked a beautiful flower...and what if when you awoke, you held that flower in your hand? Ah, what then?"