Aragorn and Arwen Related? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Iargwath · 07-10-2002, 12:54 AM

Hey guys, sorry if the newbie (me) is sorta annoying u, but i can see that u guys know a fair deal about Tolkien's great works and there are just some questions that come to mind that i'd like to ask somebody.
Basically this one is if Aragorn (Strider in LotR) is related to Arwen Evenstar?

***Sharkû*** · 07-10-2002, 12:58 AM

Arwen is the daughter of Elrond; and Aragorn is descended in (more or less) direct line from Elros, Elrond's brother. However, this line of Kings by which Aragorn is seperated from his ancestor also was several millenia long, so they are far from being related by blood.

07-10-2002, 12:59 AM

Yes they are because Arwen is Elrond's daughter and Aragorn is a descendent from Elros who is Elrond Brother.
Elros and Elrond are halfelves and they had to choose which kind to belong: Elrond chose elves, while Elros chose human.

Orofacion of the Vanyar · 07-10-2002, 01:18 AM

Yes they are extremely distantly related. They are "blood" related somewhat, be it a fraction or no.

But what's actually a little more interesting, or disturbing depending on how you look at it, is that Elrond and his wife are far more closely related then Aragorn and Arwen. They are something to the nature of 3rd cousins. Please correct me if I'm wrong, my geneology lexicon is lacking somewhat.

[ July 10, 2002: Message edited by: Orofacion of the Vanyar ]

orlandoandsaran · 07-10-2002, 02:18 AM

Why do they usually marry their own blood? And they are usually very close in relation.

***Sharkû*** · 07-10-2002, 02:34 AM

They don't usually marry their own blood. Among both Elves and Men, it was condemned to marry anyone as close as a first degree cousin (and second etc. degrees were avoided, too).
Aragorn and Arwen do not share more common blood than any two members of an ethnic variety today. For example, practically all Europeans can claim to be descendants of Karolingus Magnus in one way or another, and he lived just well over a millenium ago, while Elros has been dead for six thousand years when Aragorn II married.

Personally, I think that within the given mythology, we need not call the degree of relation between Celebrían and Elrond disturbing. Elrond's great-great-grandfather was Elwë; Celebrían's great-grandfather was Olwë, Elwë's brother. This relation is far more removed than, say, usual royal weddings in our ages, and after all, we are dealing with nobles here. Also, I'd waguer that such a degree of relation would hardly be recognized among mortals at all.

[ July 10, 2002: Message edited by: Sharku ]

Anunia · 07-10-2002, 03:21 AM

They are very distant related. You should see their family tree. Aragorn is a descendant of Elrond's brother, Elros, through many generations of men.

[ July 10, 2002: Message edited by: Anunia ]

Aldagrim Proudfoot · 07-10-2002, 09:32 AM

I quess it would be similar to two people who both have William the Conquerer, and only him, as a common ancestor who get married. And on the subject of marrying relatives, in ancient times it used to be common. Abraham and Sarah(from the Bible), for example, were half-siblings. Jacob married two of his cousins. They wanted the family to stay together. But that changed later on.

The Silver-shod Muse · 07-10-2002, 12:10 PM

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but Aragorn and Arwen's blood being joined in marriage was evidently regarded as a good thing. I looked for it, but I can't find the exact quote. It reads something like, "And so the line of kings was unified again".

If anyone remebers it or can find it, please post it here.

Anorien · 07-10-2002, 12:16 PM

eww! that's kinda like marrying your cousin! *gag* JK. I think it was cool how the line of kings was 'fixed'. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Aldagrim Proudfoot · 07-10-2002, 02:26 PM

That's how they kept it "in the family".

*Varda* · 07-11-2002, 04:40 AM

<font color=white> I wouldn't say it was like marrying your cousin at all. By the time it got round to Aragorn, they'd had so many descendents in between him and Elros probably it wouldn't matter and the elven blood in Aragorn would be like hardly any. There's also the obvious distinction between the two Arwen=Elf Aragorn = Man.

~*Varda Elentari*~

Aragost · 07-12-2002, 09:12 AM

Elros, the uncle of Arwen an ancestor of Aragorn. [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]

Aragost · 07-12-2002, 09:16 AM

They were also related by being married [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Aldagrim Proudfoot · 07-12-2002, 01:38 PM

We're talking about before they were married.

[ July 12, 2002: Message edited by: Aldagrim Proudfoot ]

The Silver-shod Muse · 07-12-2002, 03:34 PM

[img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] *sigh*

Frodo Baggins · 07-13-2002, 07:39 PM

Speaking of cousin-marrying, Pippin married his cousin. He married Fatty Bolger's sister. Hobbits marry relatives all the time. My parents were related to each other.

BTW Earendil and Elwing, the parents of Elrond and Elros, were related!

Aldagrim Proudfoot · 07-14-2002, 01:17 PM

How were they related?

*Varda* · 07-14-2002, 01:35 PM

<font color=white> How were Earendil and Elwing related? I looked through the Encylopedia of Arda to see if there was any truth in this and i found none. Why do you think this?

~*Varda Elentari*~

Sarin Elfarmour · 07-24-2002, 04:42 PM

Earendil and Elwing were decendants of the Beor the old

Dimaldaeon · 07-25-2002, 07:05 AM

Actually people of Numenorean descent married each other every so often, Tar Miriel married Ar-Pharazon (I know it was a forced marraige but anyway) and Isildur's great great (something) grandson married Anarion's great great (something) dranddaughter.

Galorme · 07-29-2002, 05:01 AM

I think that the relation of Arwen and Aragorn shows the sheer scale of the life of the elves. Assuming that every time a new kind of Numinor came about there would be a new person in the House of the Faithful there are 25 generations between Elendil and Elros. Of the Rings of Power says that Aragorn was the 39th of Elendil's line. This means that there are 65 generations between Aragorn and Earendel, but only 2 between Earendel and Arwen. I think that this shows just how far removed the Elves are from the lives of men.

Halbereth Diagona · 07-29-2002, 07:02 AM

Well, even if I hadn't known that they were distantly related, I'd have said they were, because Aragorn's father sent him to live in Rivendell, and he was hardly likely to trust him in the hands of a complete stranger.
Though what this proves I do not know....

07-10-2002, 12:54 AM	#1
Iargwath Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 236	Aragorn and Arwen Related? Hey guys, sorry if the newbie (me) is sorta annoying u, but i can see that u guys know a fair deal about Tolkien's great works and there are just some questions that come to mind that i'd like to ask somebody. Basically this one is if Aragorn (Strider in LotR) is related to Arwen Evenstar? __________________ 'I waited patiently for the Lord; and He inclined to me, and heard my cry'-Psalm 40 My M-e Forum

07-10-2002, 02:18 AM	#5
orlandoandsaran Haunting Spirit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Greenwood Home Posts: 91	Why do they usually marry their own blood? And they are usually very close in relation. __________________ Vor\|otwen Bloom spouse of Orlando Bloom.

07-10-2002, 03:21 AM	#7
Anunia Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rivendell Posts: 60	They are very distant related. You should see their family tree. Aragorn is a descendant of Elrond's brother, Elros, through many generations of men. [ July 10, 2002: Message edited by: Anunia ] __________________ Flowers are the alphabet of angels, whereby they write on the hills and fields mysterious truths. Dream the impossible, because dreams do come true.

07-10-2002, 09:32 AM	#8
Aldagrim Proudfoot Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 328	I quess it would be similar to two people who both have William the Conquerer, and only him, as a common ancestor who get married. And on the subject of marrying relatives, in ancient times it used to be common. Abraham and Sarah(from the Bible), for example, were half-siblings. Jacob married two of his cousins. They wanted the family to stay together. But that changed later on. __________________ I do not suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!

07-10-2002, 12:10 PM	#9
The Silver-shod Muse Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The shoulder of a poet, TX Posts: 388	Perhaps I'm mistaken, but Aragorn and Arwen's blood being joined in marriage was evidently regarded as a good thing. I looked for it, but I can't find the exact quote. It reads something like, "And so the line of kings was unified again". If anyone remebers it or can find it, please post it here. __________________ "'You," he said, "tell her all. What good came to you? Do you rejoice that Maleldil became a man? Tell her of your joys, and of what profit you had when you made Maleldil and death acquainted.'" -Perelandra, by C.S. Lewis

07-10-2002, 12:58 AM	#2
*Sharkû* Hungry Ghoul Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,719	Arwen is the daughter of Elrond; and Aragorn is descended in (more or less) direct line from Elros, Elrond's brother. However, this line of Kings by which Aragorn is seperated from his ancestor also was several millenia long, so they are far from being related by blood.

07-10-2002, 12:59 AM	#3
pumapungente Guest Posts: n/a	Yes they are because Arwen is Elrond's daughter and Aragorn is a descendent from Elros who is Elrond Brother. Elros and Elrond are halfelves and they had to choose which kind to belong: Elrond chose elves, while Elros chose human.

07-10-2002, 01:18 AM	#4
Orofacion of the Vanyar Wight Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Clayton, NC Posts: 102	Yes they are extremely distantly related. They are "blood" related somewhat, be it a fraction or no. But what's actually a little more interesting, or disturbing depending on how you look at it, is that Elrond and his wife are far more closely related then Aragorn and Arwen. They are something to the nature of 3rd cousins. Please correct me if I'm wrong, my geneology lexicon is lacking somewhat. [ July 10, 2002: Message edited by: Orofacion of the Vanyar ]

07-10-2002, 02:34 AM	#6
*Sharkû* Hungry Ghoul Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,719	They don't usually marry their own blood. Among both Elves and Men, it was condemned to marry anyone as close as a first degree cousin (and second etc. degrees were avoided, too). Aragorn and Arwen do not share more common blood than any two members of an ethnic variety today. For example, practically all Europeans can claim to be descendants of Karolingus Magnus in one way or another, and he lived just well over a millenium ago, while Elros has been dead for six thousand years when Aragorn II married. Personally, I think that within the given mythology, we need not call the degree of relation between Celebrían and Elrond disturbing. Elrond's great-great-grandfather was Elwë; Celebrían's great-grandfather was Olwë, Elwë's brother. This relation is far more removed than, say, usual royal weddings in our ages, and after all, we are dealing with nobles here. Also, I'd waguer that such a degree of relation would hardly be recognized among mortals at all. [ July 10, 2002: Message edited by: Sharku ]

07-10-2002, 12:16 PM	#10
Anorien Wight Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Old Navy of Rohan Posts: 138	eww! that's kinda like marrying your cousin! gag JK. I think it was cool how the line of kings was 'fixed'. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ FRODO: all low and retarded Oh Mr. Frodo, do you have any more food? Here eat mine, I’m so fat. How about I carry the ring for you. It’s soooo pretty, I mean heavy! SAM: Why you little-! FRODO: You asked for it!

07-10-2002, 02:26 PM	#11
Aldagrim Proudfoot Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 328	That's how they kept it "in the family". __________________ I do not suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!

07-11-2002, 04:40 AM	#12
Varda Maiden of Tears Join Date: May 2002 Location: Valinor. Posts: 571	<font color=white> I wouldn't say it was like marrying your cousin at all. By the time it got round to Aragorn, they'd had so many descendents in between him and Elros probably it wouldn't matter and the elven blood in Aragorn would be like hardly any. There's also the obvious distinction between the two Arwen=Elf Aragorn = Man. ~Varda Elentari~ __________________ 'It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: someone has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them' ~Frodo "Life is hard. After all, it kills you." - Katharine Hepburn

07-12-2002, 09:12 AM	#13
Aragost Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Arthedain Posts: 137	Elros, the uncle of Arwen an ancestor of Aragorn. [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img] __________________ Where there's a whip there's a will

07-12-2002, 09:16 AM	#14
Aragost Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Arthedain Posts: 137	They were also related by being married [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ Where there's a whip there's a will

07-12-2002, 01:38 PM	#15
Aldagrim Proudfoot Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 328	We're talking about before they were married. [ July 12, 2002: Message edited by: Aldagrim Proudfoot ] __________________ I do not suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!

07-12-2002, 03:34 PM	#16
The Silver-shod Muse Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The shoulder of a poet, TX Posts: 388	[img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] sigh __________________ "'You," he said, "tell her all. What good came to you? Do you rejoice that Maleldil became a man? Tell her of your joys, and of what profit you had when you made Maleldil and death acquainted.'" -Perelandra, by C.S. Lewis

07-13-2002, 07:39 PM	#17
Frodo Baggins Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Bag-End, Under-Hill, Hobbiton-across-the Water Posts: 606	Speaking of cousin-marrying, Pippin married his cousin. He married Fatty Bolger's sister. Hobbits marry relatives all the time. My parents were related to each other. BTW Earendil and Elwing, the parents of Elrond and Elros, were related! __________________ "I'm your huckleberry....that's just my game."

07-14-2002, 01:17 PM	#18
Aldagrim Proudfoot Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 328	How were they related? __________________ I do not suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!

07-14-2002, 01:35 PM	#19
Varda Maiden of Tears Join Date: May 2002 Location: Valinor. Posts: 571	<font color=white> How were Earendil and Elwing related? I looked through the Encylopedia of Arda to see if there was any truth in this and i found none. Why do you think this? ~Varda Elentari~ __________________ 'It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: someone has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them' ~Frodo "Life is hard. After all, it kills you." - Katharine Hepburn

07-24-2002, 04:42 PM	#20
Sarin Elfarmour Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 43	Earendil and Elwing were decendants of the Beor the old __________________ Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-menu

07-25-2002, 07:05 AM	#21
Dimaldaeon Wight Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ireland & damn proud of it. Posts: 125	Actually people of Numenorean descent married each other every so often, Tar Miriel married Ar-Pharazon (I know it was a forced marraige but anyway) and Isildur's great great (something) grandson married Anarion's great great (something) dranddaughter. __________________ Dear Saddam, Do not disunderestimate me.Yours G.W.Bush You're not drunk if you can still hold onto a blade of grass to stop yourself from falling off the face of the Earth

07-29-2002, 05:01 AM	#22
Galorme Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: London Posts: 337	I think that the relation of Arwen and Aragorn shows the sheer scale of the life of the elves. Assuming that every time a new kind of Numinor came about there would be a new person in the House of the Faithful there are 25 generations between Elendil and Elros. Of the Rings of Power says that Aragorn was the 39th of Elendil's line. This means that there are 65 generations between Aragorn and Earendel, but only 2 between Earendel and Arwen. I think that this shows just how far removed the Elves are from the lives of men. __________________ Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! The day has come! Behold people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!

07-29-2002, 07:02 AM	#23
Halbereth Diagona Wight Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Mirkwood, duh. Why would I be anywhere else? Posts: 143	Well, even if I hadn't known that they were distantly related, I'd have said they were, because Aragorn's father sent him to live in Rivendell, and he was hardly likely to trust him in the hands of a complete stranger. Though what this proves I do not know.... __________________ HALBERETH DIAGONA I'm back! Kicks computer stupid thing for breaking down. Miss me? Didn't think so...