In the Shadow of the Star: Discussion Thread (Part 1)

[Child of the 7th Age]

Helen,

It is good to see you. I was concerned that the recent storms could have affected your trip.

See my post of February 15 at 11:30 p.m. and those that immedately follow. Frodo and Bilbo fall asleep and arrive by dream in the company of Lorien. This is where they fell asleep on their front porch.

The two hobbits looked intently at each other. Then Bilbo leaned back, set down the pipe, and closed his eyes. There are certain things for which words are not needed. Frodo went inside and brought out a woolen blanket, tucking it about the older hobbit's lap to protect him from the cool night air. He sat down on the step nearby and leaned against Bilbo's knee, as a misty, silver curtain seemed to fall in place, bringing with it an abundance of dreams and hope.

I am following Tolkien on the nature of dreams, since there seems little difference between theexperiences of those who are present in reality and those who are present in dream in the fragments he's left us. Indeed, critics like Verlyn Flieger have argued that, in a place like Lorien, dreams/vision/reality seem to intersect even within the LotR itself.

BTW, did you get my memo on two possible doors for Cami?

sharon

[ February 23, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[mark12_30]

Sharon: I do remember the post of Bilbo and Frodo falling asleep; it was the pounding on the old door at the Inn that confused me, I guess; and arriving with Lorien all awake and savvy and clearminded.

The guy from HoME that woke up as Elendil (and his son as Herendil) had no clear memory of their future/past; as I remember it he had no clear memory of ever being anybody else. So I was expecting something along those lines for the dreamers in our story. Obviously for the plot to make sense they have to retain their identities ("Excuse me, Maura sir, but should I know you??" [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] )

You were confused when Pio woke you up, and had to figure things out. But-- we don't see that with Bilbo and Frodo. It seems to me that they should experience some sort of disorientation at least. Since they wake up behind closed doors we haven't seen it yet, unless I should flashback to it or insert a section? If that makes sense to you I could write that peice and you could patch it in; if you had been thinking that they should arrive clear-minded and aware of all the issues, then just let me know.

Good to be back. I hope I can scan the story one more time tonight and get a better handle on it. I was pretty fuzzy last night.
Orual: great post on Sam's letter writing. Loved it.

--Helen

[ February 23, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[ February 23, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[Child of the 7th Age]

You were confused when you woke up, and had to figure things out. But-- we don't see that with Bilbo and Frodo. It seems to me that they should experience some sort of disorientation at least. Since they wake up behind closed doors we haven't seen it yet, unless I should flashback to it or insert a section? If that makes sense to you I could write that piece and you could patch it in; if you had been thinking that they should arrive clear-minded and aware of all the issues, then just let me know

That extra piece would be a good idea, and I will be glad to patch in wherever you want. My conjecture was that the three of them woke up in the old bedroom slightly dazed and disoriented, and took a while to get their bearings. (Even Lorien) I didn't get into any of that, and just picked up the action as they were banging on the door.

Apparently, Lorien must have recovered enough to realize he was a Maia and would be able to use another means to get through the door. See Pio's post. But he completely forgot about the hobbits who were with him, and left them banging on the door.

sharon

[mark12_30]

Sharon,

I sent you a PM with the post in it. I hope it works.

--Helen

[piosenniel]

Carrun, Orual, Rose Cotton, ArwenBaggins, Nuranar, Susan, dragoneyes, Arelindel - please see my PM's to you.

Your preparations for the party should be up by Monday at the latest.

Sharon will be putting the dinner party scene up on Tuesday and you will need to be ready to interact with the other guests.

[mark12_30]

Sharon:

you wrote, in the Ancalimon speaks to Maura at Tol Fuin post:

By mid-afternoon, Ancalimon excused himself, and inquired about the way to Lindo's burrow, as there were other matters he wished to discuss with him.

What did you have in mind and should I post about that? [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Lindo returns! Yippee! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Also-- Since Maura was so closely modeled on Frodo, what are your thoughts about the two of them meeting? Comparison/ contrast? Let me know what you have in mind.

--Helen

[ February 23, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[Child of the 7th Age]

I have just pasted in a new post which Helen (Mark 12_30) wrote. It shows how Frodo and Bilbo first woke up in the locked attic room. It definitely carries a humorous air! See the post of Feb. 21, 2:34 a.m. on the first page of the game.

sharon

[ February 24, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[piosenniel]

Nurunar needs to leave the Game for personal reasons. The part of Miz Rose Cotton Gamgee will be played for a couple of posts by me.

[mark12_30]

Sharon and Orual:

Regarding Bilbo's key, the wardrobe, and the party dress...

I don't know quite what you have in mind, Sharon (can't imagine Bilbo keeping dresses, nor Frodo either, but Rose was there for a while before Frodo left) but my quick point is, I think that Sam would have had the wardrobe unlocked and opened, by a professional locksmith if necessary, and kept it aired out and fresh and clean even if he kept the contents absolutely untouched.

The reason I feel that Sam wouldn't have left the wardrobe locked: too much risk of mustiness, mildew and mold underground. I should think that even the best of hobbit-holes need to be either aired out regularly or heated well, to make sure that they stay dry, I think, and I bet Sam would have been very cautious about that.

If there were heirloom dresses in there-- I find myself wondering whether Sam would have given them to Miz Rose to wear? Rose, in her turn, may have reluctantly worn them only to please Sam and returned them immediately, clean and pressed, to the wardrobe? Could be some fun in that.

Just some stray thoughts. Feel free to argue?

--Helen

[Birdland]

I've filled in the post about Birdie's travels that was saved from Feb. 23, 8:37am.

I'm afraid the Shire-Folk are going to find Birdie looking rather "outlandish". [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[piosenniel]

Bird

So Holly and Olo jumped the broom, eh?

Whatever happened to Volondil, your devoted Ranger? Did you take a page from Pio's book and dump him for some mysterious, tall dark and handsome one from the south, eh?

Out with it! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Who is he?

[Child of the 7th Age]

Helen,

You have a point about mustiness. I can easily get rid of the key with a bit of an edit, and have Sam remember how carefully Rose had cared for the things in the wardrobe.

First, as to how the wardrobe got there, ..... When Frodo inherited Bag-end, Bilbo had obviously left all his things there except for the little he took and the clever mathoms which he gave to his friends. Some of these things left behind in Bag-end would have been family heirlooms. When Frodo made the decision to leave the Shire, he probably got all these old family treasures together and tucked them carefully in the wardrobe in the second-best bedroom (Sam's and Rose's bedroom at that point), and casually told Sam and Rose they were welcome to use anything there.

After Frodo left for the West, Rose probably went through these things and was surprised at what was there. They probably did use a number of the household items, but I think they might have saved those things which were extrememly personal.

The dress is definitely a family heirloom...and personal. It is the dress that Bilbo's mother wore on the day of her wedding. There is a haertfelt note with it which his mother Belladonna Took wrote shortly before her death, wishing Bilbo all the best things in life and asking him to keep the gown and share it with the woman he will marry and later with his own daughters or daughters-in-law. Bilbo had kept it out of sentiment and also thinking that Frodo would marry, and that it would be given to his wife. But all those dreams never came to pass!

Now, we have Cami.....

Given this note and what the dress was, I'm not sure Sam would have suggested his wife wear it.

The book on the Brandybucks belonged to Frodo's mother Primula Brandybuck, and has a very personal inscription for Frodo inside the cover. Interestingly, it relates the geneology of the Brandybucks, way back when they were the Zara-Gambas, long before coming to the Marish.

I thought their family history might prove useful at some point, perhaps at the very end of the game. For now, the book will be tossed aside and no one will look at it.... It will go with Frodo back to the West because of the inscription from his dear mother.....and that would also be the safest place for it!

sharon

[Birdland]

Whatever happened to Volondil, your devoted Ranger?

Well, you know Rangers...

All I can tell you about the the man on the left is that he is a terrific dancer. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[mark12_30]

Orual, Susan, and Dragoneyes (Sam, Merry, and Pippin),

I'd like to plan some interactions for the party between each of you and Frodo. We can either communicate by PM (which is only one on one, hard to do with four people all together and communicate with any cohesion) or we can communicate on this thread (which means we can't surprise anyone) or we can exchange email addresses (but I have three, 2 home and 1 work.)

I am fine with working on the discussion thread if that's easiest for everyone where all four of the ringquest hobbits are concerned. Would any of you prefer otherwise enough to provide email addresses or go through the PM drill?

The ideas I have revolve around Frodo's experience with (and growing dependance on) osanwe, and how his three friends might react to his temptation to use it. Let me know if you'd rather plan this off to one side or here on the discussion thread.

Thanks! --Helen

[mark12_30]

Being an introvert with a lousy memory and having gotten totally flummoxed trying to grasp who and what is on, in, and around this project, I finally made myself a table of game members and characters. This was absolutely essential for me as I can hardly remember my own name under pressure. If I can't remember your name, PLEASE don't be offended. Or if you are offended, don't take it out on my characters!

Anyway, here are the two tables: one sorted by characters, the other by players. Whether it helps anybody else or not I don't know; but I need to be able to get at it wherever I am!

If we add or subtract anybody, send me a PM or Sharon or Pio feel free to edit the post.

Thanks... and once again, when I give you a blank stare and ask you whatsyernameagain, please laugh instead of throwing things.

Kiara, I haven't found your characters' name or profile yet, did I miss it?

Sorted by character's Family, Clan, Job, or Race:

• Nurumaiel Angelica Baggins
• Child : Bilbo Baggins
• Mark 12_30 : Frodo Baggins
• Arelendil Primrose Bolger Innkeeper, Green Dragon
• Gandalf_TheGrey Merry Brandybuck
  
• Piosenniel: Pio Elf
  
• Doug*Platypus Bill Ferny
  
• Auriel Haevasawen Old Stoat Ferny's Henchman
  
• Carrun Frodo Gardner Gamgee
  
• ArwenBaggins Elanor Gamgee
  
• Rose Cotton Rosie Gamgee
  
• Child Rose Cotton Gamgee, Sam's wife.
  
• Orual - Samwise Gamgee.
  
• Child : Cami Goodchilde
  
• LadyinWhite Rose Goodchilde
• Mithadan : Mithadan Man
  
• Bird Bird Shapechanger
  
• Mark 12_30 : Retya Snowhobbit
  
• Mark 12_30 : Tem Snowhobbit
  
• Mark 12_30 : Tocca Snowhobbit
  
• Mark 12_30 : Lindo Snowhobbit Loremaster
  
• Dragoneyes Pippin Took
  
• Mark 12_30 : Asta Tuk
  
• Mark 12_30 : Ban Tuk
  
• Mark 12_30 : Gamba Tuk
  
• Child : Maura Tuk
  
• Mark 12_30 : Maura (Little) Tuk
  
• Mark 12_30 : Roka Tuk
  
• Mithadan : Lorien Vala
  
• Piosenniel: Amaranthas

Sorted By Barrow-Downs Member Name:

• Arelendil Primrose Bolger Innkeeper Green Dragon
• ArwenBaggins Elanor Gamgee
• Auriel Haevasawen Old Stoat Ferny's Henchman
• Bird Bird Shapechanger
• Child : Bilbo Baggins
• Child : Cami Goodchilde
• Child : Maura Tuk
• Child : Rose Cotton Gamgee
• Carrun Frodo Gardner Gamgee
• Doug*Platypus Bill Ferny
• Dragoneyes Pippin Took
• Gandalf_TheGrey Merry Brandybuck
• LadyinWhite Rose Goodchilde
• Mark 12_30 : Frodo Baggins
• Mark 12_30 : Retya Snowhobbit
• Mark 12_30 : Tem Snowhobbit
• Mark 12_30 : Tocca Snowhobbit
• Mark 12_30 : Lindo Snowhobbit Loremaster
• Mark 12_30 : Asta Tuk
• Mark 12_30 : Ban Tuk
• Mark 12_30 : Gamba Tuk
• Mark 12_30 : Maura (Little) Tuk
• Mark 12_30 : Roka Tuk
• Mithadan : Mithadan Man
• Mithadan : Lorien Vala
• Nurumaiel Angelica Baggins
• Orual - Samwise Gamgee.
• Piosenniel: Pio Elf
• Piosenniel: Amaranthas
• Rose Cotton Rosie Gamgee

[ February 24, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[ February 24, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[ March 16, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[mark12_30]

Frodo Baggins

Frodo and Bilbo have been together a great deal in the West, but there have been times when both Bilbo and Mithrandir have encouraged Frodo to pursue other friendships in the hopes that he would find healing and hope in them. In addition to Elrond and Galadriel, these friendships also include Finrod, Fingolfin, Finarfin, Aegnor, and Gil-Galad. Each of these elves had experience either in the struggle against the darkness, or especially in the case of Aegnor and Elrond, in the permanent loss of something held very dear. Galadriel and Elrond conversed much with him about the Ring specifically.

Some of this time spent with these elves was spent in vocal discussion, but as years passed, Frodo's skill in osanwe grew, and more and more his time spent with elves was spent mind-to-mind.

Bilbo he maintained his old spoken friendship with, and with Bilbo his humor remained sharp and his wit keen. But in all his other relationships, he learned to let down his guard, and became ever more open and trusting, knowing that he was surrounded by those who watched out for him and held him in high regard. He now slips openly, honestly, and easily into osanwe, and excepting Bilbo, he is comfortable maintaining all his deeper relationships that way.

Lindo (master of the Snowhobbits; Loremaster); Retya (Snowhobbit); Tem (Snowhobbit); Tocca (Snowhobbit)

All four were born in Gondolin, imprisoned in Ladros, and most recently come from Dorthonion, or Tol Fuin.

Lindo has been introduced in a previous post.

All three Snowhobbits are teenagers (Retya and Tem, 16; Tocca, 15.) The term "Snowhobbit" originated in the prison camps of Ladros, because fourteen teenage hobbits (then mostly 13 to 14 yrs of age) got into a snowball fight with Lindo, and finally tackled him and buried him in the snow. Lindo wrote a song about the fight. The hobbits formed a brotherhood of sorts, and Lindo took their training upon himself, styling it after the elvish schooling he had recieved in Gondolin (see Lindo's summary.) When the hobbits won their freedom, Lindo adopted the three orphans, Retya, Tem, and Tocca.

Retya(16) is a leader and a bit of a rascal, very handy and natural with ponies, sensitive to Lindo's moods, unusually protective and defensive of him, and is rapidly becoming Lindo's closest friend.

Tem(16) and Tocca(15) are followers, firmly attatched to Retya and each other, likewise protective of Lindo and fairly sensitive to him. They are both obedient to most orders from either Retya or Lindo. Tem speaks his mind too freely and is often in trouble for it; Tocca is usually careful, diplomatic, rational, thorough, the least reckless of the three.

All three brothers are affectionate and fiercely loyal to each other and to Lindo.

Gamba (17), Roka (7), Asta (7), Ban (5), and (Little)Maura Tuk (4)

Gamba and the four young boys came from the prisons of Meneltarma. They were all orphans. Gamba (and his older brother Phura) had lived with the Old Loremaster for many years, but as the rescue approached, there were many casualties, including Gamba's young sweetheart Esta, for whom he still grieves.

The four boys were orphaned from various families. They attatched themselves to Gamba, tagging along behind him and curling up near him at night. He made sure they got fed, and watched after them. While they were never officially adopted by the Old Loremaster, they bonded with Gamba as their older brother/ father figure, and the Old Loremaster went along with it.

When Gamba followed Cami to the Anduin, there was no question that the four boys would go with Gamba. Due to his loss of Esta, and his parting from his brother Phura and from Old Loremaster, thereafter he clung tenaciously to "his boys". While they lived in Cami's house, he maintained a strong control over them at all times, making sure he remained the center of their affection and devotion.

Cami steadfastly loved them all, but her patient, persistant attempts to break into the tight circle met with limited success over the years.

Gamba is headstrong, exhasperatingly stubborn, and at times arrogant especially when feeling insecure; however he can also be quite lavish with affection. While many think him slow to learn, Cami is unusual in that she is reliably able to present information in a form that Gamba can easily absorb and understand.

Having understood her instruction, whether he submits to it is another matter.

Gamba has a strong and accurate throwing arm, likes to swim, sings well, and hates to be underground-- most unnatural for a hobbit. He prefers trees.

Roka and Asta are normal seven-year-old boys, adventurous, playful and unpredictable. Ban is quieter and very fond of Azra (Rose Goodchilde.) Gamba takes little Maura everywhere, sometimes forgetting about his safety in the process. Little Maura is doted over by both Gamba and Cami; he lacks nothing and is very trusting and unsuspecting.

All five boys are fascinated by wilderness and nature and mezmerised by anything new.

[ February 25, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[piosenniel]

I have a question about my calendar - originally Maura was arriving prior to the birth of the twins. Is this still true, or is he coming just after. And around that same time, will Lindo and the snowhobbits arrive?

[Child of the 7th Age]

From Cami's perspective:

Maura is coming before the birth of the twins. He will come as soon as Cami speaks with Lorien and gives her consent. He and Lindo will come together.


Rose Goodchilde will arrive immediately after Maura. Gamba and his brothers will come immediately after that.

Helen, can you live with this? Will the Snowhobbits arrive with Maura and Lindo, or later?

[ February 24, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[Child of the 7th Age]

Helen,

Thanks for the list. It is helful.

I made minor edits in it based on changes in players since the earliest post.

I will continue future edits if needed.

Bird. You're wearing that THING to my wedding!!??!! And who is that man?

Cami

[ February 24, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[mark12_30]

Cami, I'd prefer all four (Lindo, Retya, Tem, Tocca) arrive together with Maura. (how old are they?)

Gamba & clan can show up whenever you want them to.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Age of snowhobbits -- two years older than their original age.

OK, let's make it easy:

The entire contingent from Tol Fuin arrives at once: Maura, Zara and 'Big' Ban and Abar, plus Lindo and three snowhobbits. Lindo and crew in one place in the Inn; Maura and his family in another.

Immediately thereafter, the Greenwood contingent arrives: Rose, Gamba, plus four brothers in tow.

Rose will come through in a slightly different location than the boys.

The Inn is going to be busting at the seams! Can the hobbit children/teenagers sleep in the stables?

As to the exact place the various groups arrive in the Inn.....that remains to be seen.

[Birdland]

Bird. You're wearing that THING to my wedding!!??!!

What? What's wrong with what I'm wearing? Gee, and Birdie even brought some rice to throw.

Hmmmmm, another thread for Books: did Hobbits eat rice?

[Child of the 7th Age]

Dragoneyes' post on Pippin's receipt of the invitation has been pasted on the thread. See
February 20, 1:23 a.m. on the first page.

Good job, Dragoneyes!

Cami

[mark12_30]

Dragoneyes: Nice post! And welcome aboard, Pippin! Drop me a line when you can about party interactions.

Cami: Okay, so the boys are sixteen (Tocca is fifteen, I think.) Perfect. Serious competition between them and Gamba... the Snowhobbits will be taller, and far more disciplined.

Lindo and the Snowhobbits would be DELIGHTED to sleep in the stables.

(The main problem will be letting the poor horses get some sleep. Boys: "Pony slumber parties are the best!" Lindo: "BOYS! Get to bed!" Boys: "Awwww, Dad!" )

Gamba would probably fight hard to join them, Maura in tow, and Roka and Asta tagging close behind. Cami would want Maura staying in the Inn safe and sound.

Open war ensues.

[img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

FYI-- Whenever boys are missing-- first, check the barn. If horses are missing-- check the fields. If none seen, perhaps they will return when they get very very hungry...

[ February 24, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[ February 24, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[piosenniel]

Helen

If Lindo and the boys would like better accomodations, very near the stables is the Stablemaster's home: Hob Hamfast and his new wife, Minta Chubb Hamfast. They have no children of their own at present and have also volunteered to watch the three children of Angelica Baggins Mudfoot when Angelica is called upon to be Pio's Midwife.

I'm sure they would love whatever assistance is available with a ten y/o boy and the 3 y/o twins, the male of which will keep babysitters hopping!

[Birdland]

Helen, thanks so much for the Party "Name" Tree. That is going to be very helpful for Bird, who won't be able to keep all those kids straight.

Looking forward to seeing Lindo again, though I fear he will be wanting to follow Frodo back to Tol Eressa.

[piosenniel]

The timeline on page 1 is updated to reflect arrivals.

[mark12_30]

Pio,

I've been pondering Hob Hamfast's kind offer, but my gut reaction is that the boys would rather curl up on the horses' backs and sleep there than have a cozy bed. They miss Estel, they love ponies, and aside from Estel, there weren't very many equines on Tol Fuin!

Lindo, I think, would either be with his boys or with Maura; and towards the end of the tale, Maura won't want his company!

I'll keep The Hamfasts in mind though; I suspect the reason for your idea will come clear in a while.

[piosenniel]

Please note: the hour for the dinner party is upon us. Please consider posting your character's arrival at the Inn.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Pio will be doing the temporary posts for the Innkeeper until her return.

Cami

[piosenniel]

Note: for later reference -

The Shiriff (not to mention Post Master for the Shire) in Michel Delving is:

Halfred Whitfoot

[mark12_30]

Pippin and Sam! Where are you?? --Frodo

[mark12_30]

East of the Moon, west of the Sun
There stands a lonely hill;

Pio, that's GORGEOUS. Where's it from?

[Child of the 7th Age]

Rose Cotton, Arwen Baggins,

Thanks very much for fillng in the back posts.

Cami

[Child of the 7th Age]

Pio,

Please see my memo on the order of posts on page 2. Do we need to cutand paste and shift one or two to make the chronology fall more in line?

Cami

P.S. You are also welcome to shift my latest Cami post if needed concerning the thirty-two buttons. I came right in the middle of the door opening to admit other guests.

[piosenniel]

Helen

The poem is from Book of Lost Tales 2, Tale of Eärendel- called 'The Shores of Faëry'.

I am completely enamored of Tolkien's poetry, and given a chance will stick in a few stanzas wherever I may! (You missed the vocal Warg character I played who liked to recite the parts of 'The Lay of Leithian' concerning his ancestor, Carcharoth [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img])

Sharon - Have adjusted the out of synch posts.

[ February 26, 2003: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

[Child of the 7th Age]

I will be "borrowing" the Fatty Bolger character for several posts.

Cami

[mark12_30]

...anybody there?

Sheesh, throw a party and EVERYBODY evaporates.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Dear Frodo,

Thank you so much. I have just seen the space you have saved, and the little note in it.

I would be most grateful for anything you could do to distract Fatty Bolger. He is a kind fellow, and I have no wish to hurt his feelings. My mother always maintained I was thick-headed about such things, and now I fear she was right.

I am also concerned that Bilbo and Lorien may be looking at me a bit askance.

Your friend,

Cami Goodchild

[theWhiteLady]

Greetings!

The party seems to be starting up, should Rose Goodchild make her entrance sometime soon?

Regards,
theWhiteLady

[ February 26, 2003: Message edited by: theWhiteLady ]