The Ring of Sauron - Page 2 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Iarhen · 12-13-2003, 10:34 AM

Could the Balrog take the One Ring? For it seems that, apart from the Fellowship wreaking havoc on the surface, it seems that the One Ring called to him... calling his attention, bringing ruin to the Fellowship...

Balrogs are ainu... Even if Sauron was more powerful than a Balrog, a Valaraukar would still be powerful enough to suplant him as the Dark Lord... Dont you think?

And, last but not least... where does the idea of Olorin binding Narya and Glamdring to his spirit? Just because he still had them after he died and came back in Zirak-Zigil?

Lord of Angmar · 12-13-2003, 10:43 AM

I highly doubt that a Balrog would take the One Ring and claim it for itself. More likely it would simply give the Ring to Sauron and reap the benefits of living in a world where evil can run rampant, rather than challenging a much greater power and in doing so taking away strength from the fight against Gondor and the free peoples of Middle Earth.

Quote:

where does the idea of Olorin binding Narya and Glamdring to his spirit?

Agreed. I see no evidence for that. We do not even know with any certainty that Gandalf had Narya with him. My guess is he probably left it in Imladris before setting out with the Fellowship. As for Glamdring, it may be that that is one of Tolkien's 'continuity errors', though I think a more likely explanation is that he used it to battle the Balrog on Zirakzigil. Even though he came back in his second iteration [Gandalf the White] after his duel with the Balrog, he was still physically atop the mountain the whole time.

Arothir · 12-13-2003, 05:59 PM

I am not saying Sauron was stupid or weak. Villians often do not know everything, and what they don't know often destroys him. He probably just didn't know his being was pretty much in the Ring. He doensn't know everything. He probably didn't count on the Elves finding that he forged the Ring. So basically, it is quite possible for Sauron to think the Ring, as an inanimate object, can not truly hold a good part of his being. He merely thought he was using a lot of energy.

Olorin_TLA · 12-13-2003, 07:20 PM

Well in the Council of Elrond (or somewhere else) they say that until recently Sauron thoguht the Last Alliance HAD destroyed the Ring...

Mind you, he may have simply thoguht that he was wrong in thinking desturction=death, and then when it was refound thought once more that desturction could be fatal.

**The Saucepan Man** · 12-13-2003, 07:26 PM

Could the Balrog take the One Ring?

Iarhen · 12-13-2003, 07:31 PM

But why do you think that the Balrog would give up such a thing to Sauron? As far as I remember, even though Sauron was the greatest and must trusted servant of Morgoth, the Balrogs were not under his authority, only under Morgoth's. I dont remember where I read it, but not even Smaug (a lesser creature compared to the Balrog) was under Sauron's authority... Why would a being of equal nature such as the Balrog swear allieagance to Sauron?

Just imagine this: if Gandalf, a maia in a weakened form (because being incarnate and because the power ban that the Valar placed upon him) was the main danger for Sauron in terms of taking the One Ring and replacing him as a Dark Lord, why wouldnt a Balrog, a powerful ainu in all of his might, take the Ring and more easily supplant Sauron?

And, lets not forget that the One Ring had a lot of Sauron's original power in it... The Balrog plus that extra power, and the command of the Nazgul and all that was built under the One Ring's power... My guess is that Sauron would not last an instant against the Balrog with the One Ring on...

Iarhen · 12-13-2003, 07:47 PM

And another question... where is it said that Gandalf left Narya in Rivendell? I thought that he wore it all the way until the Gray Havens... didn't he?

Secret Fire · 12-13-2003, 09:59 PM

Quote:

And another question... where is it said that Gandalf left Narya in Rivendell? I thought that he wore it all the way until the Gray Havens... didn't he?

Easy, a couple of posts up [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] . Gandalf, I believe, bore it from teh point where Cirdan gave it to him on. Galadriel says that the rings did much good in secret, and since they were all being used, why would Gandalf leave it. As for how he still had it after being sent back, easy, Gandalf neveractually left the top of the mountain, but was physically there with them.

rutslegolas · 02-01-2004, 04:32 AM

ya i think that balrog could take the ring for his one but i think he would not be strong enough to defeat the dark lord in one -on-one combat

so he would probabaly give the ring to sauron and live in an evil world in darkness

drigel · 02-02-2004, 11:29 AM

Its the same idea as the Feanor story. In the mind of the creator (subcreator), losing what one has made is the last thing on ones mind. The drama happens in the loosing, and the attempt to regain it.

12-13-2003, 10:34 AM	#41
Iarhen Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Laurelindorenan Posts: 225	Could the Balrog take the One Ring? For it seems that, apart from the Fellowship wreaking havoc on the surface, it seems that the One Ring called to him... calling his attention, bringing ruin to the Fellowship... Balrogs are ainu... Even if Sauron was more powerful than a Balrog, a Valaraukar would still be powerful enough to suplant him as the Dark Lord... Dont you think? And, last but not least... where does the idea of Olorin binding Narya and Glamdring to his spirit? Just because he still had them after he died and came back in Zirak-Zigil? __________________ "In place of a Dark Lord you will have a Queen! Not dark but beatiful and terrible as the Dawn! Treacherous as the sea! Stronger than the foundations of the Earth! All shall love me and despair!" --- Galadriel when tempted by the One Ring.

12-13-2003, 05:59 PM	#43
Arothir Wight Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: the Realm of Nargothrond beyond Narog Posts: 163	I am not saying Sauron was stupid or weak. Villians often do not know everything, and what they don't know often destroys him. He probably just didn't know his being was pretty much in the Ring. He doensn't know everything. He probably didn't count on the Elves finding that he forged the Ring. So basically, it is quite possible for Sauron to think the Ring, as an inanimate object, can not truly hold a good part of his being. He merely thought he was using a lot of energy. __________________ Then Felagund upon the head of Arothir set it: "Nephew mine, till I return this crown is thine."

12-13-2003, 07:20 PM	#44
Olorin_TLA Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Gardens of Lórien, Valinor. Posts: 420	Well in the Council of Elrond (or somewhere else) they say that until recently Sauron thoguht the Last Alliance HAD destroyed the Ring... Mind you, he may have simply thoguht that he was wrong in thinking desturction=death, and then when it was refound thought once more that desturction could be fatal. __________________ "For I am Olórin! And Olórin means me!" ELENDIL! - Join "Forth Tolkiengas!"

12-13-2003, 07:26 PM	#45
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	Could the Balrog take the One Ring? __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

12-13-2003, 07:31 PM	#46
Iarhen Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Laurelindorenan Posts: 225	But why do you think that the Balrog would give up such a thing to Sauron? As far as I remember, even though Sauron was the greatest and must trusted servant of Morgoth, the Balrogs were not under his authority, only under Morgoth's. I dont remember where I read it, but not even Smaug (a lesser creature compared to the Balrog) was under Sauron's authority... Why would a being of equal nature such as the Balrog swear allieagance to Sauron? Just imagine this: if Gandalf, a maia in a weakened form (because being incarnate and because the power ban that the Valar placed upon him) was the main danger for Sauron in terms of taking the One Ring and replacing him as a Dark Lord, why wouldnt a Balrog, a powerful ainu in all of his might, take the Ring and more easily supplant Sauron? And, lets not forget that the One Ring had a lot of Sauron's original power in it... The Balrog plus that extra power, and the command of the Nazgul and all that was built under the One Ring's power... My guess is that Sauron would not last an instant against the Balrog with the One Ring on... __________________ "In place of a Dark Lord you will have a Queen! Not dark but beatiful and terrible as the Dawn! Treacherous as the sea! Stronger than the foundations of the Earth! All shall love me and despair!" --- Galadriel when tempted by the One Ring.

12-13-2003, 07:47 PM	#47
Iarhen Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Laurelindorenan Posts: 225	And another question... where is it said that Gandalf left Narya in Rivendell? I thought that he wore it all the way until the Gray Havens... didn't he? __________________ "In place of a Dark Lord you will have a Queen! Not dark but beatiful and terrible as the Dawn! Treacherous as the sea! Stronger than the foundations of the Earth! All shall love me and despair!" --- Galadriel when tempted by the One Ring.

02-01-2004, 04:32 AM	#49
rutslegolas Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In Elven Lands of India Posts: 533	ya i think that balrog could take the ring for his one but i think he would not be strong enough to defeat the dark lord in one -on-one combat so he would probabaly give the ring to sauron and live in an evil world in darkness __________________ If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with the bull - The Phantom.

02-02-2004, 11:29 AM	#50
drigel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: commonplace city Posts: 518	Its the same idea as the Feanor story. In the mind of the creator (subcreator), losing what one has made is the last thing on ones mind. The drama happens in the loosing, and the attempt to regain it.