Elven Servants, or does Galadriel do her own ironing?

[Lyra Greenleaf]

I find it very odd to think of Elves doing housework, but someone had to do it. Did they employ humans? It wouldn't seem to make sense. Especially without money, but that's another question that gives me a headache thinking about it.

In the Hobbit Thranduil had Elves to roll his empty barrels around, and Galadriel and her ladies certainly sewed/wove or however they made the cloaks. But what about cooking, scrubbing floors and washing clothes? I can't imagine Elves with chapped hands or flour on their noses!

Are there classes in Elvish society the way there are in Hobbit or human? If so, how is it organised- according to wealth? Are the servants the Elves with the fewest jewels? Or do they take turns? Or, I don't know, are certain Elves born with the desire to do housework? Are there any clues, this question has been really annoying me!

[Rumil]

I think that's a really interesting question Lyra.

We don't hear much about the 'proletarian' elves except Thranduil's butler (which was a highly prestigious occupation in medieval times).

I'd have to giess that the elves did have a class system, with those of more noble birth having higher status than the rest. Exactly how this could have worked in practical terms is something of a mystery. Did Elrond have elf peasants working his fields to make his bread? My idea is that the majority of ordinary elves shared the everyday tasks, then created exquisite artworks in their spare time. Even the most mundane tasks would have been performed in a stylish manner eg. ropemaking, perhaps mowing of fields into complex crop circle designs? After all they did have thousands of years to perfect these tasks.

The other possibility is that they used 'low-grade magic' to help out around the home. Thranduil's people were not the most powerful elves but were noted for their willingness to use magic for more trivial things.

[FingolfintheBold]

I like to think of the more "noble" elves as being in that position out of respect from other elves. Would any elf try and put themselves above Fëanor even if he wasn't of a more noble birth? I don't think so. They would have sensed and seen his power and ability and given him respect. Sort of a free enterprise kinda thing, perhaps. If an elf that wasn't of any noble birth but had great skill and leading prowess wanted to be the next Lord of Rivendell I imagine that could happen. But maybe that skill and prowess runs in the family...

[Legolas]

I know this question was specifically concerned with the preparation of clothes, but I picture the elven garments of Middle-earth to be something special - just as the cloaks of Lothlorien helped mask the person wearing it, I believe they would've been wrinkle-free and stains would be removed with a simple dab of water.

[Gorwingel]

I would probably say that they used somekind of magic to clean their dwellings. Or maybe they were so magical that they just kind of "kept clean" and never really got dirty. Or maybe dust and dirt just did not exsist in places like Lorien.

but I picture the elven garments of Middle-earth to be something special - just as the cloaks of Lothlorien helped mask the person wearing it, I believe they would've been wrinkle-free and stains would be removed with a simple dab of water.

Could you even imagine the elves getting stains on their clothing. I could just never see someone like Galadriel accidently spilling their cup of wine on their dress, it just does not seem possible.

[Voronwe]

At least one elf did have servants - Eol the Dark Elf:

There was his smithy, and his dim halls, and such servants as he had, silent and secret as their master.

[Aule]

How did elves get their food, did they have fields of grain for bread. Cuae if they did i find it hard to imagine elves ploughing the fields themselves

[Bêthberry]

My understanding is that elves are like upper class Bostonians. They don't 'perspire.' This saves on much washing.

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

Harumph... I'm certainly not "upper-class" but I still feel stereotyped [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

I would imagine that Elves do work, some of them, but do it in some 'dainty' and 'nice' way that they don't get dirty or muss their hair...

~Menelien

[peony_foxburr]

Somehow I imagine the Elves (at least in the latter days) as being more the upper class merchant class--in that they bartered for the goods they didn't produce themselves, such as foodstuffs (I can't picture Elves ploughing either), with the exquisite jewelery, woven cloth, embroidery, etc. that they turned out? Is this realistic? Not so much that they couldn't work hard, but did they have the open land available to produce food? (I suspect Tolkien didn't think too much about it, just as "upper class Bostonians" didn't think too hard about where their eggs and meat were from!)

[Tar Elenion]

Elves had to farm and hunt and raise livestock, wash and sew, cook and clean, and generally labour just like everyone else.

Among the Noldor the farming was usually (though not always) women's work as was the baking of bread though the prepartion of other foods was generally reserved to men. The men were more often the smiths and wrights, composers and inventors, foresters and hunters, while the women usually were the seamtresses and muscians. Among the Eldar more generally those arts associated with healing and the care of the body tended to be the province of women while the arts of war were usually in the care of men.

[ June 07, 2003: Message edited by: Tar Elenion ]

[Neferchoirwen]

At least Galadriel poured her own water!

I'm thinking of the racial differences of the elves, but it may not necessarily mean that one race works for the other.

Among the Noldor the farming was usually (though not always) women's work as was the baking of bread though the prepartion of other foods was generally reserved to men. The men were more often the smiths and wrights, composers and inventors, foresters and hunters, while the women usually were the seamtresses and muscians. Among the Eldar more generally those arts associated with healing and the care of the body tended to be the province of women while the arts of war were usually in the care of men.

I liked the way the Eldar does their work. It could be that they acquired these because of all the wars and conflicts that may ensanger their race.

[Amarie of the Vanyar]

I have found the following paragraph:

From the ear to the wafer none were permitted to handle this grain, save those elven-women who were called Yavannildi (or by the Sindar the Ivonwin), the maidens of Yavanna; and the art of making of the lembas, which they learned of the Valar, was a secret among them, and so ever has remained.
Of Lembas - The Peoples of Middle-Earth

This means that there was at least some specialization in the elven society , but probably all jobs were highly considered, (even ironing if required [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ), because all work was done in the elvish manner: carefully and putting all your senses and love in what you are doing.

Although I can't really imagine Elves ploughing the fields and such either, I'm sure they did. They had to have at one point, anyway, before there were any men or any other people to trade with, if they weren't doing it themselves. But I don't think that they viewed such jobs as being 'lowly', or on the bottom of the class hierarchy, or looked down upon them, like we might be inclined to do. The people that make the food or make the clothes control what you eat and wear, after all - without them you'd be naked and starving. Not a nice thought. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] I really can't imagine there being poor peasant Elves to wait on the richer Elves, though, not in the way we tend to think of servants.

[The Saucepan Man]

Are there classes in Elvish society the way there are in Hobbit or human?

All Elves are equal. It's just that some are more equal than others. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Magician of Nathar]

Oh please. Of course the elves did all of those farming, cooking, washing stuff! I am sure the elven society is just like a feudal society, and Rivendell is nothing different from a manor. No matter how magical, etheral and beautiful those elves are, I don't think they are socially and technologically advanced. Tolkien definitely omitted those details on purpose. They are not really related to the main story, and if all those things are laid out in details before you, they will rub out all those mistified beauty.

[Aredhel Idril Telcontar]

Of course they did all those things (farming, washing, ironing etc.), but they probably did it in a way that would make those tasks seem glorious and neccessary (and they were, neccessary at least).
Elves probably did have classes like everyone else, maybe even like those in Hindu societies.
One question: Could those classes be based on beauty instead of birth? It would seem like an Elvish thing to do [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]. Of course, that's only if those classes exsited at all...
I don't think they would have allowed a 'commoner' Elf to become a leader. That would almost seem like democracy and I just can't imagine Elves in a democracy... [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

[Finwe]

I don't think that the Elves had a feudal system. They probably had a bit of a class system, for example, the descendants of Finwë would have been deferred to a lot more than, let's say, a Marchwarden of Lothlorien. I think all those people who were descended from those three great Elf-Kings were considered the "nobles," and the ones who weren't really descended from them were considered more of the commoners. Also, it would make sense that the Eldar would have a higher status than the Avari, having come from Aman and all.

[Lalaith]

I think Amarie is right, that elves were prepared to put their hands to whatever needed to be done, and do it with consummate grace and artistry.

*Lalaith vows to henceforth clean her lavatory in an Elvish manner*