mystery?

[dwarfwarrior]

in the hobbit, gandalf and the others take a pass over the misty mts. before they are captured by the goblins.In fotr, why did he not take the same pass?Or was that the pass of Caradras?

[anduin angel 44]

ummmm....If your question refers to the pass taken by the Fellowship in TFOTR, the answer is Caradhras. If thats not the question, then please enlighten us all.

[The Saucepan Man]

They were two separate passes.

The pass which Bilbo, Gandalf and the Dwarves tried to take in the Hobbit was the High Pass, slightly north-east of Rivendell.

The pass which the Fellowship tried to take in LotR was the Redhorn Pass further south, below the mountain Caradhras (also known as Redhorn).

I believe (although I cannot now recall for sure) that the Fellowship did not take the High Pass because it was impassable at that time of year (whereas it was thought that the Redhorn Pass would be passable).

[Legolas]

In addition to what the Saucepan Man has said, the High Pass would've taken them way out of their way, coming over the Misty Mountains much higher nearer the northern section of Mirkwood. This was convenient for the dwarves since they were headed to the Lonely Mountain. The Fellowship was headed south, though, and did not have a lot of time to spare.

[ May 20, 2003: Message edited by: Legolas ]

[dwarfwarrior]

but would not the high pass be safer?did gandalf consider this?

[Lalaith]

It's a good question actually and one I'd not thought about before. But I'm sure Saucepan Man is right and that the more northerly pass was higher. In that case, given that they were nearly snowed to death on the lower pass, then it's not likely the higher one would have been safer.

[Manwe Sulimo]

There are threads about this (probably a million pages back, though).

What I remember from that thread was:

It was too dangerous to try to pass so close to Dol Guldur, so they couldn't go directly East. Besides, look at the map of ME. If you were trying to get to Mordor from a safe route, where would you go? (Thinking you could sneak by Isengard, that is).

[HCIsland]

I don't have my copy with me but as I recall they were definately considering using the Gap of Rohan which means they would have already been heading south. Going back up to the High Pass would have taken them majorly out of their way and time was an issue. If they had all the time in the world they could have gone around the western end of the White Mountains and travelled through Gondor.

I can't remember an actual passage but considering it was winter, the High Pass may have been impassible as SaucepanMan suggested. Also, I'm not exactly convinced that Redhorn was considered more dangerous than the High Pass. They certainly didn't expect the unnatural storm they ran into.

H.C.

[Amarie of the Vanyar]

The Company went South instead of going East, as Legolas has said, because they need to hurry before the Nazgûl recovered from the losing of their horses and re-established their watching over the paths as it is said in:

'You should fear the many eyes of the servants of Sauron' he said. I do not doubt that news of the discomfiture of the Riders has already reached him, and he will be filled with wrath. Soon now his spies on foot and wing will be abroad in the northern lands. Even of the sky above you must beware as you go on your way'
The Ring Goes South

And they chose the west side of the mountains because they thought it to be safer

Their purpose was to hold this course west of the Mountains for many miles and days. The country was much rougher and more barren than in the green vale of the Great River in Wilderland on the other side of the range, and their going would be slow; but they hoped in this way to escape the notice of unfriendly eyes. The spies of Sauron had hitherto seldom been seen in this empty country, and the paths were little known except to the people of Rivendell
The Ring Goes South

And Gandalf and Aragorn had planned from the beginning of their journey to cross the path of Caradhras (Gandalf already knew the treason of Saruman and didn't want to get too close to Isengard)

'It is for the Dimrill Dale that we are making' said Gandafl. 'If we climb the pass that is called the Redhorn Gate, under the far side of Caradhras, we shall come down by the Dimrill Stair into the deep vale of the Dwarves. There lies the Mirrormere, and there the River Silverlode rises in icy spring'
The Ring Goes South

[The Saucepan Man]

... discomfiture of the Riders ...

Hehe. I love that. It makes it sound like the Ringwraiths were only slightly put out by their experience at the Ford: "I say, Angmar old chap, that was a rather discomforting experience, don't you think?". [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Even of the sky above you must beware as you go on your way

That's interesting. I hadn't noticed it before. I presume that it is Elrond speaking. Was he aware that the Nazgul might take to the air on winged beasts, or was this some kind of foresight on his part?

Gandalf's reasoning in heading south down the west side of the mountains and taking the Redhorn Pass to avoid going too close to Isengard makes perfect sense. But I am still sure that I have seen some reference to the High Pass being impassable ...

[obloquy]

The Witch-King was not named Angmar.

[The Saucepan Man]

The Witch-King was not named Angmar

How did I guess that this might come up?

Yes, I know! I was just imagining it (in the light-hearted context of that quote) as a nickname that the other Nazgul gave him. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[obloquy]

WATEVR BRO

[Amarie of the Vanyar]

That's interesting. I hadn't noticed it before. I presume that it is Elrond speaking

Yes, you are right. I'm sorry, I forget to mention it [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

But I am still sure that I have seen some reference to the High Pass being impassable

The only reference to the High Pass I have found for the moment is in the explanation of the routes followed by the scouts sent by Elrond, while the Company is still staying at Rivendell

Many had gone east and south; and some of these had crossed the Mountains and entered Mirkwood
The Ring Goes South

Therefore, it seems that is possible to cross the High Pass, but considering that the scouts sent by Elrond are likely to be elves, was it possible for four hobbits, two men and one dwarf to cross it? [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[HCIsland]

Either way, your quote regarding wanting to stay on the west side of the Misty Mountains as long as possible certainly suffices as an explanation.

Certainly the route through Red Horn was considered safer than the route through the High Pass.

H.C.