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07-16-2019, 02:24 AM | #1 | ||
Overshadowed Eagle
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Jail-Crow of Mandos
Quote:
Fëanor's words are echoing the relatively common English term 'jailbird', as in someone who has previously been a prisoner. But... why does Fëanor have a colloquial term for a prisoner ready to hand, in a land where we're told of Finwë after his wife's death, 'alone in all the Blessed Realm he was deprived of joy'? Did Valinor have a secret unmentioned criminal justice system? The Gnomish Lexicon suggests yes. From Eldamo, it includes a whole set of words based on 'fedh-': Quote:
It's possible that Tolkien envisaged this legal system as being a Beleriandic concept (where we know from Turin that outlaws were a thing, and from Finrod that allies were something House Feanor didn't really get), but the Qenya Lexicon also has a relevant word: kos (kost-) n. “quarrel, dispute, the matter disputed, legal action”. Kos stems from a different Primitive Elvish root, GOÞO ('GOTHO'), which is connected to anger and fighting. So if anything, the Qenya word is more antagonistic than the Gnomish, which could have originally been about property disputes or something. Am I completely off-track in imagining a Valinorean legal system (perhaps it only came into play after Melkor was out and making trouble?)? Is there any more evidence either way as to what it looked like? hS |
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07-16-2019, 06:58 AM | #2 |
Loremaster of Annúminas
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Hadn't copped to that one particularly, but there were other areas where T didn't really think through the ramifications of Valinor. Such as, Feanor and Fingolfin nearly coming to blows over being their father's heir. How's that again? An immortal people living in a place where nothing ever dies: how would inheritance be a thing?
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. |
07-16-2019, 08:38 AM | #3 | |
Overshadowed Eagle
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Quote:
(Or, of course, Feanor could just have been angry about not getting all his dad's time and attention.) hS |
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07-16-2019, 03:22 PM | #4 |
Loremaster of Annúminas
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"Young King" - the practice was much more general than just the Angevins - was a way of ensuring the succession. As the West Franks moved away from their Germanic traditions, particularly that of partitioned inheritance, getting the chosen heir crowned and anointed ahead of time - and receiving oaths of fealty - was a way to avoid what happened inter alia with Maud and Stephen, and before that with the Conqueror's sons (Robert Curthose did not give in happily). So it was a direct outgrowth of inheritance. There also was an echo of the Roman Tetrarchy, in that the Angevin empire was just too big (with salt water in the middle) for one King to respond to every crisis in anything like a timely manner. But what crises did the House of Finwe ever have to respond to in Aman?
(Also, Henry fils made a rotten Young King, considering he spent most of his reign rebelling against Dad. No English King ever did it again, the title Prince of Wales eventually serving) -- NB: Richard CdL was less a religious fanatic than he was a war fanatic. And there was nothing at all unusual about appointing a regent during the king's prolonged absence.
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. Last edited by William Cloud Hicklin; 07-16-2019 at 03:27 PM. |
07-17-2019, 11:11 AM | #5 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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07-17-2019, 12:16 PM | #6 |
Gruesome Spectre
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Well, the Elvish equivalent of Death was known in Valinor. Feanor's own mother had relinquished her spirit at his birth, never returning. Can you then really blame them for wondering if something else might take their father?
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07-17-2019, 03:59 PM | #7 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Quote:
And if one falls on a good, well placed point . . . |
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07-18-2019, 04:07 AM | #8 | |
Overshadowed Eagle
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Quote:
hS |
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07-18-2019, 09:45 AM | #9 | |
Loremaster of Annúminas
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Quote:
A unique event which sparked a metaphysical crisis and a full-on Ring of Doom debate. There was never any likelihood that Finwe would commit suicide!
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. |
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07-18-2019, 10:18 AM | #10 |
Gruesome Spectre
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Not implying that that exact outcome was a worry, but it might indeed have been a revelation that even in the Blessed Realm unexpected events like it could occur.
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