Old man willow

[arelendil]

Is old man willow an ent? He talks to Tom Bombadil and captures Merry and Pippin. Is he therefore a sleep ent or is he something else, he seems too evil to be one of the ents that we meet later in the book.

Merry said something about it being the water that the trees drink, in which case old man willow wouldn't be an ent but something different. I seem to be going around in circles can anyone help?

I believe The Old Willow is a huorn. Which, in case you don't know, is an ent that basicly become uninterested in everything and has basically fallen asleep.

Po-ta-toes

[thorondil]

Book III, Chapter 4

'The trees and the Ents,' said Treebeard. 'I do not understand all that goes on myself, so I cannot explain it to you. Some of us are still true Ents, and lively enough in our fashion, but many are growing sleepy, going tree-ish, as you might say. Most of the trees are just trees, of course; but many are half awake. Some are quite wide awake, and a few are, well, ah, well, getting Entish. That is going on all the time.
'When that happens to a tree, you find that some have bad hearts. Nothing to do with their wood: I do not mean that. Why, I knew some good old willows down the Entwash, gone long ago, alas! They were quite hollow, indeed they were falling all to pieces, but as quiet and sweetspoken as a young leaf. And then there are some trees in the valleys under the mountains, sound as a bell, and bad right through. That sort of thing seems to spread. There used to be some very dangerous parts in this country. There are still some very black patches.'
'Like the Old Forest away to the north, do you mean?' asked Merry.
'Aye, aye, something like, but much worse..."

[ December 30, 2002: Message edited by: thorondil ]

i agree... and isn't there something about treebeard wanting to talk to tom bombadil? or am i confused...

[Liriodendron]

Tom Bombadill never uses the word Ent. He just says OMW was the most arrogant of "the fathers of the fathers of trees". (aging no quicker than the hills) There was a time they were lords, the countless years filled them with pride and rooted ( [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]) wisdom, and with malice. Willow's heart was rotton (so were huorns!)Sure sounds like a lesser Ent gone bad, or a rotten Huorn , more powerfull than most. The trees experience with creatures that moved probably colors their attitude. Tom's words "laid bare the hearts of trees and their thoughts, which were often dark and strange, and filled with a hatred of things that go free upon the earth, gnawing, biting,breaking, hacking, burning: destroyers and usurpers." [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

[arelendil]

I don't think OMW could be an ent that would be odd! beside what happen to the theory of ents belonging in Fangorn forest? Wait isn't that just treebeard in elvish. In which case it just that treebeard has control of that forest, so maybe ents were everywhere. that's a nice thought, i can warn everyone to be nice to trees now!

I don't think that he could be a Hourn either he's older than that! do you think that maybe he was a tree that Morgoth touched. If the elves had awaken him he would have been good and Yavannah wasn't going to make evil trees was she that would be stupid (not the the purpose of the valar were made know toi anyone but themselves) So morgoth must of had a hand in making the trees evil, directly or indirectly!

[Curulin]

There cartainly used to be Ents everywhere, because in the first age of the Sun they destroyed the remnents of the Dwarf host that had just destroyed Doriath and Menegroth. So Fagorn certainly wasn't the only place they were.
Figgy: Treebeard doesn't say himself that he would like to speak to Tom, but gandalf tells the Hobbits that Tom wouldn't be concerned with anything that had happened, except for their visit to the Ents.
As for OMW being a Huorn, it does seem quite likely, especially from the way we see him act, but if theres no definate answer we could (and probably will be) debating this for a long time yet... Not that thats a bad thing at all
Curulin

[Galorme]

Well the Ents could be considered Evil Trees to some extent. Their main purpose was to kill dwarfs and men was it not? They were made to stop people cutting down trees, but 15 [sic?] foot walking super strong super fast giants that are pretty much invincible to arms are hardly going to be made for talking sense into people are they? They are more the militia of the woods than tree hugging hippies. And Melkor did not touch them. So maybe OMW is just a slightly more extremist Ent.

But I would apply the rules you have to apply to Tom. He was made up outside of the entish tradition, he was made up before ents and huorns. He, like Tom, existed outside ME, and was inserted into it, and didn't exactly fit in perfectly.

[ January 02, 2003: Message edited by: Galorme ]

[Bêthberry]

Old Man Willow, and the trees of the Old Forest, remember the days when the trees were attacked. Remember how the Numemoreans felled vast stretches of forest, so that the Old Forest is only a remnant of what once was.

There is also bad sap between the Hobbits and the Old Forest, for Hobbits once tried to destroy the trees also.

FOTR, chapter 6, "The Old Forest", Merry speaks:

But the Forest is queer. Everything in it is very much more alive, more aware of what is going on, so to speak, than things are in the Shire. And the trees do not like strangers. They watch you. Usually they are content merely to watch you , as long as daylight lasts, and don't do much. Occasionally the most unfriendly ones may drop a branch, or stick a root out, or grasp at you with a long trailer. But at night things can be most alarming, or so I'm told. I have only once or twice been in here after dark, and then only near the Hedge. I thought all the trees were whispering to each other, passing news and plots along in an unintelligible language; and the branches swayed and groped without any wind. They do say the trees actually move, and can surround strangers and hem them in. In fact, long ago they attack the Hedge: they came and planted themselves right by it, and leaned over it. But the hobbits came and cut down hundreds of trees, and made a great bonfire in the Forest, and burned all the ground in a long strip east of the Hedge. After that the trees gave up the attack, but they became very unfriendly. There is still a wide bare space not far inside where the bonfire was made.

"Is it only the trees that are dangerous?" asked Pippin.

"There are various queer things living deep in the Forest, and on the far side," said Merry, "or at least so I've heard; but I have never seen any of them. But something makes paths...

[And a couple of pages later...]

"That," said Merry pointing with his hand, "that is the line of the Withywindle. It comes down out of the Downs and flows south-west through the midst of the Forest to join the Brandywine below Haysend. We don't want to go that way! The Withywindle valley is said to be the queerest part of the whole wood--the centre from which all the queerness comes, as it were.

Bethberry