WW: LXXXIV - Middle Earth in Fifteen Minutes

[Shastanis Althreduin]

The game has begun! Am sending roles now and will post a list of players.

It is now Night 1. The three Wolves may PM and the Seer may dream.

Edit: Roles have been sent. If you did not receive a PM then you are an Ordo.

Player list -

Wilwa
Lottie
Boro
Sally
Nerwen
Elronhubbard
Eomer
Greenie
Inzil
Nogrod
Lommy
Legate
Nessa

[Shastanis Althreduin]

This is about an hour and a half late, but Day 1 has started. I'm going to make the deadline an hour later, unless people tell me not to, since this delay was unexpected. You can start posting.

[Loslote]

Since our dear Cup Cake is Internet-impaired, I thought I might as well do her a favor and link youtube videos obsessively for her.

You're welcome.

Vanilwuffin - Is an evil confectionary treat.

Lottie - Is innocent as can be, naturally.

Boro - Nearly received a Spaceballs link instead, but didn't, which means he needs to be lynched.

Sally - Is to blame for this post (sorta) and thus ought to be lynched.

Nerwen - Ought to be lynched just 'cause.

Elronhubbard - Is a fun newbie who should...um...be lynched!

Eomer - I don't know why I gave him this exact link, but hey, it's a good link which totally means he should be lynched.

Greenie - I think this one may be a bit self-evident in its call for lynching. No?

Zil - Is, I'm sure, evil again.

Nog - Had a birthday recently, and thus ought to be lynched as a belated birthday gift.

Lommy - Clearly, is ebil and needs lynching.

Legate - Noms people, and thus ought to be lynched.

Nessa - Is someone I have seen but never met, and, thus, is deserving of lynching.

Shasta - Is our dearly beloved mod and should not be lynched.

[Nerwen]

÷÷Lottie÷÷

[Nerwen]

All quiet on the werewolf front, I see.

[Nerwen]

So still, so quiet. I believe I will sing.

"♩♫ La la la, la la la, la-la-la-la, la la la
LA! LAAAA!! LAAAAAAAA!!!♬♪"

There. Wasn't that beautiful?

[A Little Green]

Absolutely lovely.

[Nerwen]

Why, thank you, my dear.

And now that three people have posted, I wonder which of us is the wolf?

[A Little Green]

You, naturally, since you're the one to ask.

[Inziladun]

Just remember, Lottie, "NO ONE EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!".

Since it's so quiet, I'll amuse myself by singing all 18 minutes of Al Stewart's Love Chronicles. Those who have never heard of AL Stewart should be lynched.

[elronds_daughter]

Erm...most impressive, Zil.

I think Lottie's being a tad unfair, saying I should be lynched right off the bat... Just because I'm new and different, that doesn't mean I'm evil.

Not that I'm asking for hugs and cake (or death! erm, I mean, what?)...I will happily settle for a wary tolerance.

[Nessa Telrunya]

Originally Posted by elronds_daughter

Erm...most impressive, Zil.

I think Lottie's being a tad unfair, saying I should be lynched right off the bat... Just because I'm new and different, that doesn't mean I'm evil.

Not that I'm asking for hugs and cake (or death! erm, I mean, what?)...I will happily settle for a wary tolerance.

You mean a wary hug and a tolerance cake?

[elronds_daughter]

Originally Posted by Nessa Telrunya

You mean a wary hug and a tolerance cake?

Sure.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by elronds_daughter

Erm...most impressive, Zil.

I think Lottie's being a tad unfair, saying I should be lynched right off the bat... Just because I'm new and different, that doesn't mean I'm evil.

She said everyone should be (except herself and Shasta). Your failure to notice this speaks of a guilty conscience, young Elra. Clearly, you ought to be lynched.
÷÷Elra÷÷

[Nerwen]

The only thing that remains, really, is to think of a wolf-name for her.

Any objections to Wolfronhubbard?

[Thinlómien]

Okay I'm here and slightly confused that the game has started or that it's actually Day1 instead of Night1 already.

Me this morning, seeing Greenie with the laptop: Has the game started already?
Greenie: Yes, but not much is happening.
Me: *wonders if that was a slip* ...? Is it Day or Night?
Greenie: Day.
Me: *brain explodes with the information that it's Day1 already and I don't even know my role*

Anyway, now I'm here and not very confused anymore. Not that it seems like much is happening here either. Which is kind of annoying because I expected to find myself in the middle of some kind of discussion (other than whether Nerwen's singing is lovely) so that I could comment something instead of using lots of time and brain capacity to come up with a discussion out of nothing.

Which brings me to another issue. I don't know if I should have signed up because I really don't have much time this week for anything. But I'll do my best and there's always time for ww even if it means you don't sleep. Anyway, that just means you won't see me writing any horridly long analyses at least any time soon or flood-posting much.

Okay, so now I'll check if I have anything more to say about the posts this far or about the rules or anything, but then I'll go back to bury my head in my school books.


edit: xed with Nerwen

[Nerwen]

Or what about elronds_wolf?

Or wolfronds_daughter?

Decisions, decisions!

EDIT:X'd with Lommy.

[Thinlómien]

Okay...

The Heir - well nothing much to speculate about. Sort of makes the game more even and gives leeway for whichever side fumbles first.

The posts this far - Lottie: suspects everybody and posts YouTube videos which I don't have time to watch. Tries to butter up Sally, obviously. Nerwen and Greenie banter and Nerwen is intent on coming up with a wolf name for Elron who made the typical newbie wolf mistake of overreacting by defending herself against Lottie who in fact accused everybody. Inziladun considers me a wolf but I shouldn't have told him that. Nessa plays with words and is already twisting other people's words. Tsk tsk. I wonder if I've played with her before. Everybody else is quiet as a grave.

Okay that's it from me for now unless I cross-post with something worth commenting on. I'll be back in some hours and will vote early (every day in this game) because the DL is 6am Finnish time...

[elronds_daughter]

Of course now everybody is suspecting me, just because of a little bit of self-preservational instinct (which was probably a bad idea, in hindsight...). Maybe next time I should just jump to someone else's defense, instead of my own. (Newbie wolf mistake, Lommy? You sure it's not just a plain old newbie mistake?)

Still, I won't exactly be surprised if I'm the first innocent lynched. And you'll have no one to blame but yourselves.

[Nerwen]

I know! Let's lynch all of her!

÷÷elronds_daughter÷÷
÷÷Wolfronhubbard÷÷
÷÷elronds_wolf÷÷
÷÷wolfronds_daughter÷÷
÷÷Wolfra÷÷
÷÷Elwolf÷÷

[elronds_daughter]

Rats. Am I really that suspiciois a character that you accuse me so readily? Or is it "let's pick on the newbie" day?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

The Heir - well nothing much to speculate about. Sort of makes the game more even and gives leeway for whichever side fumbles first.

"Enemies of the Heir, beware. You'll be next, Mudbloods!" Wait, wrong fandom.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Inziladun considers me a wolf but I shouldn't have told him that.

So you admit that you haven't heard of Al? Not even this song?

Originally Posted by elronds_daughter

Of course now everybody is suspecting me, just because of a little bit of self-preservational instinct (which was probably a bad idea, in hindsight...). Maybe next time I should just jump to someone else's defense, instead of my own. (Newbie wolf mistake, Lommy? You sure it's not just a plain old newbie mistake?)

Still, I won't exactly be surprised if I'm the first innocent lynched. And you'll have no one to blame but yourselves.

I haven't played with you before, so I won't be voting for you toDay. Typical newbie pass. Hyper-nerviness is a common wolf-cub trait, however.

x/d with rondi, ED, ??

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

"Enemies of the Heir, beware. You'll be next, Mudbloods!"

Maybe I should have given you the Draco Malfoy Puppet song...

Anywho, I'm all for wolf's_daughter as a wolf-name for dear elronhubbard. Not that I'll vote for her (like Zil said, newbie pass) but this really is an issue that must be cleared up early.

Also, I'mma dissapear right after making this post. Just so you know.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, I must say, as somebody mentioned here before, I would have expected somewhat more posts around here. As in, I know that it's hard to say (Day 1, we all know the usual arguments and problems with it...) still, this looks entirely "uninterested". Except for the few comments by/about Hubbard's daughter, which I originally thought were just joke as well (but some people, including herself, seem to take it seriously? Or am I mistaken?), and Lommy's short evaluation of the Heir, there isn't very much to go with.

Speaking of the Heir, I think that does not have much of a practical use in the beginning, but perhaps if we managed to lynch our Seer or something as lovely as that, it might prove rather useful. It can of course serve the Wolves as well, but for me, the main point of it is a failsafe against random Day 1 Seer-lynch (which is what haunts me the most after my last game).

What else? Where are all the vocal players when we need them? It might be a small village on Day 1, but come on. If first 12 hours of the Day 1 are spent in banter, why not, but I think slowly we should try to move on...

Shall be around...

[elronds_daughter]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Except for the few comments by/about Hubbard's daughter, which I originally thought were just joke as well (but some people, including herself, seem to take it seriously? Or am I mistaken?)...

Well, Legate, it was honestly intended to be lighthearted. Nerwen seems to be taking it more seriously than originally planned.

Originally Posted by Zil

x/d with rondi, ED, ??

Zil, you may call me what you wish. "Hubbard" seems to be coming out of the woodwork...

[Loslote]

Earlier toDay, I noted that, if elronhubbard did turn out to be a wolf, Zil would be a likely candidate for her packmate, based on this:

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I haven't played with you before, so I won't be voting for you toDay. Typical newbie pass. Hyper-nerviness is a common wolf-cub trait, however.

being an almost wolfish response to a packmate coming under suspicion - start off pointing out why we should not lynch her, then saying 'but she could be a wolf' so that he could point to that if she was lynched anyway - but after re-reading the thread, I've come to the conclusion that they would be unlikely packmates, based on purely meta-lic reasoning. Elra calls him Zil, but Zil introduces himself as Inzil. If they were packmates, she'd have spent all last Night thinking of him as Inzil. But, because I call him Zil, that's what non-packmate!Elra would have first associated with ThePersonKnownAsInziladun - and what she would call her.

I have no idea if that makes any sense at all. To me, it sort of looks like my brain spewed onto the computer...but hey, we've got nothing else going on.

[elronds_daughter]

Thank you, Lottie. Your support is greatly appreciated.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

The Heir is going to cause a bit of havoc in this game. If we're exceptionally lucky the first special player to die will be the Hunter in taking down a wolf.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Earlier toDay, I noted that, if elronhubbard did turn out to be a wolf, Zil would be a likely candidate for her packmate, based on this:



being an almost wolfish response to a packmate coming under suspicion - start off pointing out why we should not lynch her, then saying 'but she could be a wolf' so that he could point to that if she was lynched anyway - but after re-reading the thread, I've come to the conclusion that they would be unlikely packmates, based on purely meta-lic reasoning. Elra calls him Zil, but Zil introduces himself as Inzil. If they were packmates, she'd have spent all last Night thinking of him as Inzil. But, because I call him Zil, that's what non-packmate!Elra would have first associated with ThePersonKnownAsInziladun - and what she would call her.

I have no idea if that makes any sense at all. To me, it sort of looks like my brain spewed onto the computer...but hey, we've got nothing else going on.

Decent reasoning, my dear, and the fact that you discount our being packmates based on meta-reasoning, instead of using that to build a case on either of us, might be a point in favour of your innocence. My point was that she does seem somewhat defensive, but I don't want a brand new player lynched on Day 1 just for that. As usual, however, newbie pass expires Day 2.

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

The Heir is going to cause a bit of havoc in this game. If we're exceptionally lucky the first special player to die will be the Hunter in taking down a wolf.

Indeed. With 13 players, seven of whom are either wolves or Gifteds (including the Heir), it's actually likely we'll hit a non-ordo toDay with the lynch. So the Heir could come into play very quickly.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by elronds_daughter

Well, Legate, it was honestly intended to be lighthearted. Nerwen seems to be taking it more seriously than originally planned.

Hm, actually now looking at it, it seems to me that it was Lommy who sort of first took it more seriously, before, it seems to me like just a random exchange between Nerwen and you. Then you continued in considering Lommy seriously and so on... anyway, my point was that I think the whole affair seems to be sort of "overrated", as it seemingly rose from just a joke, and not any serious accusation.

Originally Posted by Loslote

I have no idea if that makes any sense at all. To me, it sort of looks like my brain spewed onto the computer...but hey, we've got nothing else going on.

Better than silence, definitely.

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

The Heir is going to cause a bit of havoc in this game. If we're exceptionally lucky the first special player to die will be the Hunter in taking down a wolf.

Well, I think given the numbers, it won't probably take very long until somebody of the possible "target groups" dies. I don't think the Heir is going to cause "havoc", unless he/she remains "unused" until some really late Day (but then, again, that really can't happen, as at least some Gifted/Wolf would be dead by then for sure). Otherwise, it will be just either a helpful thing, or it will be like having four Wolves in the first place.

EDIT: x-ed with Zil

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Eomer

The Heir is going to cause a bit of havoc in this game. If we're exceptionally lucky the first special player to die will be the Hunter in taking down a wolf.

I was thinking the same and actually, we don't have to be really worried about lynching gifteds toDay, which is a blessing because on Day1 it's especially difficult to tell a jumpy gifted from a wolf.

Now this makes me actually think whether the hunter should come out and we should lynch him/her and s/he could have a shot at a wolf and we could have another hunter and thus get the advantage of having the heir on our side as the new hunter.

Let's see...
- if we lynch an ordo toDay, we lose an ordo
- if we lynch a wolf toDay, we also lose an ordo (since we lose the heir to the evil side)
- if we lynch a gifted toDay, we also lose an ordo (since we lose the heir in exchange for the gifted)

So in any case, we lose an ordo toDay. So is it all the same who we lynch?

No, there are minor differences:
- if we lynch an ordo, the heir's power is still unused and in case the wolves kill a gifted next Night, we only lose an ordo instead of a gifted.
- if we lynch a wolf, we can analyse their interactions with people and try to figure out who are the two other original wolves.
- if we lynch a gifted, we can make sure the heir advantage doesn't go to the wolves.

Which is the wisest course? I'm not sure, but it seems like we can't avoid disadvantages toDay, which kind of sucks. But I guess it's the same for the other side...? Maybe we should ignore the whole heir.

Unless it really makes sense to lynch the hunter. Shasta, what are the actual details of the hunter's role? Does s/he take also innocents with her/him if s/he dies during the Day?

'Cos if s/he doesn't, it's worth a shot lynching her/him toDay...


edit: xed with Inzil and Legate

[Thinlómien]

Oh and as for my "suspicions" of Elron, I said she makes the newbie wolf mistake of being jumpy but I omitted on purpose the fact that it hardly equals here being a wolf as many newbie ordos are jumpy as well. Given that Nerwen was already putting pressure on her, I figured that if I put a bit more, we might see some interesting reactions that would reveal stuff about her. Unfortunately, Elron's reactions don't tell me much. Yes, she got more nervous so she could be a wolf, but on the other hand, she didn't turn hysteric which a newbie wolf could do in such a situation. So I'm afraid I didn't learn much and to repeat, I don't find Elron particularily suspicious while not particularily innocent either.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

As per usual in games I host, the Hunter is logical (kills their target if lynched, only kills their target if their target is evil if nightkilled) and the Ranger can self-protect once.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, I would like to actually start getting some info as to whom I might vote, but there's been rather quiet today this far. Okay, so let me see:

Wilwa - no info
Lottie - one remark about possible relations of Inzil and LRH, seeming sort of innocent-ish to me, but nothing much in the end, really
Boro - no info
Sally - no info
Nerwen - a bit of chatter here and there, but nothing of substance. Possibly a bit of pressing on the LRH thing, but it seems more like she considered it fun all the time...
Elronhubbard - actually funny enough, being a newbie but posting basically the most. In any case, gets a newbie pass today, but even otherwise does not seem any suspicious straightaway.
Eomer - nothing much, a few remarks. If I was supposed to say from whom I am getting bad vibes, it is him, but it is simply the feeling and nothing more - so that means nothing.
Greenie - basically nothing
Inzil - attempt to engage in dialogue, but not really standing out in one way or another
Nogrod - no info
Lommy - tries to be active, in contrary to many others, and at least gives some opinions and such. I'd grant her pass just for that.
Legate - that's me
Nessa - nothing

So is there any idea whom I want to lynch today? No. No idea at all. What's wrong, folks?

Okay, it's of course likely that at least we could expect some Americans starting to come later, but for us Europeans, it might well be at the time when we are asleep already. I am really not going to wake up around 5 AM to vote, sorry...

If it goes like this, it might be actually the first time in my life when I will vote absolutely randomly out of like ten people. Great! (On the other hand, maybe with the Heir, it's the best of all games to do it...)

I'm actually wondering if some people, like Lommy said was her case, do actually even know that the game is running...

[Nogrod]

So it's finally on...

I kind of like Lommy's bold idea of removing the heir from the equation from the very beginning. But as the hunter will take anyone with her/him if lynched we (s/he) should be very careful with that option. Looked at from the "safety POV" it should be the ranger then (knowingly lynching the seer on D1 just sounds such bad ).

The pros & cons as I see them.

For:

If we lynch fex. the ranger toDay the heir will take the place of the ranger and there is no fear of the heir going to the dark side anymore and we have the ranger still - so we kind of start from scratch without the fear of an extra-unknown wolf popping up from somewhere - the mid-game turned wolves are the hardest to find out.

We can not lynch a wolf toDay (in a sense of lessening their numbers) so we're basically facing a one person reduction from our side anyway, whoever we lynch.

Against:

The ranger probably doesn't like the idea... and we'd need enough votes to rally around the idea - and we Europeans will not be around the last hours before the DL (6AM in Finland).

Maybe we should just see how it goes and not make a mountain out of a molehill?


Any thoughts?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

As for what Lommy said, interesting suggestion of course, though given what Shasta said about the Hunter taking with him/her whoever dies, not sure if it's very advantageous, or even more dangerous than safe...

Myself, I'd at least prefer keeping the Heir as a "backup", like I said before, in case we managed to lynch a Gifted toDay, or even if we e.g. lynched an ordo and the WWs killed a Gifted at Night (which is not so unlikely scenario to happen, I think). Of course, like Lommy said, if we really lynched e.g. a Hunter now, we'd be sure that the Wolves don't use the Heir to their advantage. But then again, imagine if we lynch a Hunter and he kills the Seer...

EDIT: x-ed with Nogger. Yay!!!

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by elronds_daughter

Thank you, Lottie. Your support is greatly appreciated.

Now, now, let's be clear - I did not say either you nor Zil could not be a wolf. I said it was unlikely you were both wolves.

Unless you mean giving you a newbie pass, in which case, sure, I'll take credit for an accepted practise.

EDIT: xed with Nog and Legate

[Loslote]

As for the Hunter/Heir debates, I could go either way. The Hunter, at least, has a chance of killing a wolf, while we as a village really don't. And then we still have another Hunter, so it's not like we're losing a big opportunity by killing our Hunter straight off. But there's not much for the Hunter to go off of yet. We've had a really quiet Day so far, and the chances of hitting a wolf? Not that great.

Still, it's better than killing the Ranger, in my opinion. We don't gain much in that case. The most that can be said for that is we don't risk the Hunter killing the wrong person - and I think, if we're going to tread on the safe side, we may as well just lynch an ordo, so that if the wolves kill a Gifted overNight, we still have the Heir to even that out.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Still, it's better than killing the Ranger, in my opinion. We don't gain much in that case. The most that can be said for that is we don't risk the Hunter killing the wrong person - and I think, if we're going to tread on the safe side, we may as well just lynch an ordo, so that if the wolves kill a Gifted overNight, we still have the Heir to even that out.

Well more or less what I think. Now that I think of it, it is a sort of paradox that we kind of don't want to kill a Wolf toDay - because if we do, we lose a Day, while the WWs don't. I think it all comes down to luck, anyway. There are so many options... Personally, I would prefer to leave the thing open, even with the risk of adding one more Wolf, but in fact, even in such a case we won't really "lose" anything - not more than the one Day's vote, whereas on the contrary, if we planned some Gifted-to-Heir sacrifice, we risk losing some Gifted to the WWs e.g. at Night afterwards. But okay, whatever, I am open to discussing this... I think it will be interesting to hear what others think about it, in any case.

[Nogrod]

We are now on 9-1-3 (goodies - the heir - baddies).

If we lynch a wolf toDay (and the wolves make a kill during the Night), we'll wake up to D2 with 8-3.

If we lynch a gifted (and the wolves kill during the Night), we'll wake up to D2 with 8-3.

So it's the same result!

If we lynch an ordinary innocent (+ the wolves kill an ordo), it's 7-1-3 - and the heir is still up for grabs... but the longer it takes for the heir to take sides, the harder the heir is to spot if s/he ends up with the bad side.