Whatever happened to Melkor?

[Ar-Gilien]

Alright, here's a question for those who have read the Silmarillion: Once the final battle of Angband is fought, the breaking of the Thangorodrim, what happened to Melkor/Morgoth? Was he rechained in the Halls of Mandos with Angainor, the great chain used before, or what?

All points of view are welcome. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] If anyone knows, it would be rather interesting to find out. I mean, we all know what happened to Sauron, but it seems that the demise of Morgoth, isn't really known at all.

[Inderjit Sanghera]

He was 'executed' by Mandos and his spirit fled to the void. Eevntually he will regain his strength and try to take over the world. Kinda like Pinky and the brain. In a way. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Ithaeliel]

Actually, Morgoth was rechained with Angainor and thrown through the Door of Night into the Void, from which he can never escape. It is said that each age (or something like that) the Valar will open the door to 'test' Morgoth, but if his heart is still black, he will stay in the Void. I don't think he's ever going to come out...

[Manwe Sulimo]

He's gonna come out, but get killed by Túrin the Vala. (See HoMe IV).

[Voronwe]

Ultimately, this comes down to a question of what one does or does not accept at 'canon'.

In Myths Transformed (HoME X) Tolkien states that:

Morgoth was thus actually made captive in physical form, and in that form taken as a mere criminal to Aman and delivered to Namo Mandos as judge - and executioner. He was judged, and eventually taken out of the Blessed Realm and executed: that is killed like one of the Incarnates.

Morgoth's bodily execution reduced him to a weak and houseless spirit, since he had become utterly dependent on his body due to the dissipation of his power into the matter of Arda.

A few lines later, Tolkien writes:

We read that he was then thrust out into the Void

This is followed by an explaination that 'Void' could mean outside space and time, or simply outside Arda. Tolkien himself does not seem to know which is meant, though he does tell us that putting Morgoth outside space and time would require a direct action of Eru.

The text I am using is an extremely interesting essay entitled 'Notes on motives in The Silmarillion' and contains a great deal of information relating to the philosophy behind the work - a very enlightening read. Personally I am inclined to take this essay as canon on the subject of Morgoth's fate after the breaking of Angband, since it goes into more detail about it than any other source and is likely to have been Tolkien's latest writing on the subject.

Ithaeliel:

It is said that each age (or something like that) the Valar will open the door to 'test' Morgoth, but if his heart is still black, he will stay in the Void.

Where did you read that?

Manwe:

He's gonna come out, but get killed by Túrin the Vala. (See HoMe IV).

This is a rather thorny canonical issue. It is likely that the 'Second Prophecy of Mandos' - the prediction that Morgoth will return and be slain by Turin at the end of time - was abandoned by Tolkien later in his life. Certainly the text in HoMe IV is rather old, dating from the 1930s. In Myths Transformed Tolkien merely tells us that Melkor (no longer called Morgoth after his bodily death) will eventually find strength to return to Arda and attack the Valar. Presumably this will bring about the end of Arda Marred in some sort of final battle. Turin's part in this battle had been abandoned, being no longer suitable. I believe Tolkien experimented with the idea of bringing Turin back to slay Ancalagon at the end of the first age, but I don't think this was ever fully developed.

[ December 29, 2002: Message edited by: Voronwe ]

[The Witch-King of Angmar]

From where do you know that Tolkien abandoned the idea of Turin slaying Morgoth? [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Voronwe]

I've now checked my sources, and the main evidence for the abandonment of Turin's slaying of Morgoth comes from a prophecy supposedly made by Andreth that Turin would return from the dead and slay Ancalagon in the Great Battle at the end of the first age. This prophecy was never developed, and as such it is not part of the published Silmarillion, where earlier but more complete texts were used in which Earendeil is the slayer of Ancalagon.

The source is a footnote to a rather obscure linguistic essay entitled 'The problem of Ros', found in Peoples of Middle Earth (HoME XII). I quote Tolkien's footnote text in full here. The footnote is followed by about a page of commentray by Christopher Tolkien explaining the various forms the prophecy of Turin's return took during the different stages of Tolkien's writing.

The language of the folk of Haleth was not used, for they had perished and would not rise again. Nor would their tongue be heard again, unless the prophecy of Andreth the Wise-woman should prove true, that Turin in the Last Battle should return from the Dead, and before he left the Circles of the World for ever should challenge the Great Dragon of Morgoth, Ancalagon the Black, and deal him the death-stroke.

Note that the phrase 'Last Battle' refers to the Great Battle at the end of the first age. This is clear from the context of the footnote, as Chris Tolkien points out.

[ December 29, 2002: Message edited by: Voronwe ]

[The Witch-King of Angmar]

Although I now that the things from HoMe and the Sil cannot be compared - how can Ancalagon live after he has been already slain by Earendil? [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Voronwe]

In the quote I refered to Tolkien envisaged Turin rather than Earendil slaying Ancalagon. A replacement rather than an addition.