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11-08-2009, 02:23 PM | #1 |
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What's in a Staff?
I know many of you can search tirelessly to find references to 'staff's' in Tolkien's work, but really, what do you know about them? Tolkien give's great credence to staff's specifically in reference to the Istari and it is that which interests me most. What is it about an Istari wizard that requires him to have a staff? 5 entered Middle-Earth, all of whom had staff's but what connects each and what, if any, power lies in possession of a staff?
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11-08-2009, 02:37 PM | #2 | |
Laconic Loreman
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Wood?
But seriously, I've always thought of them as an ordinary stick, that can be used as a prop for walking or in the hands of a "magical" person, as a tool. Gandalf performs magic without his staff, note his description of his fight against the Balrog. His staff breaks on the bridge, but he's still lighting up the mountain. I think Hama's got the best idea of a staff: Quote:
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11-08-2009, 02:42 PM | #3 |
Gruesome Spectre
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I've always thought the staffs of the Wizards to act much as the wands in the Harry Potter books: a means of focusing, and perhaps amplifying the magic, but not the ultimate source of it.
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11-08-2009, 04:14 PM | #4 |
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As Tolkien made it quite clear that "magic" in his world is the power native to the being wielding that "magic," I have wondered about the nature of an Istar's staff for a long time. While there appears to be some connection between the staff and power, I think it is more symbolic than real. The staff may act as a conduit for the wizard's innate power at his whim, but I really haven't seen anything that convinces me that it is necessary for the wielding thereof. There does appear to be something about them that makes them important to the Istari -- why go through the rigamarole of breaking Saruman's staff if there was not some point to it?
Finally, after a good thirty or more years of puzzling over this, it finally occurred to me: the wizard's staves were not the only ones Tolkien mentioned; there was also the staff of stewardship of the Stewards of Gondor. The wizard's staff may be an emblem of office, as the white staff is an emblem of the office of the stewards of Gondor. After all, Gandalf did say to Denethor, "I am also a steward. Did you not know?" That was the real job of Istari in ME, to be stewards who would teach and guide the people for the protection of their world against the "illegal" incursion of Sauron. It was a visible emblem of their office, possibly given to them by the Valar when they were sent on their mission, and as such it would be quite important and precious to the wizards, as a scepter or crown or any other signet of office is to any person. Embodied in the human form with its many burdens both physical and emotional, they probably became quite attached to them, and would not want to lose them, or hand them to another save at great need. The breaking of Saruman's staff would thus be akin to the breaking of a king's scepter, or Denethor's deliberate breaking of the Steward's staff: a sign that the office was at end, that the reign was over. Saruman's tenure as head of the Istari ended, and his staff was broken. Just my thoughts, as ever.
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11-08-2009, 04:21 PM | #5 |
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In addition to being a prop form a wizard's age, it occurs to me that a staff in the hands of a wizard might also be a prop in a more dramatic sense--that is, it's part of the visual equipment dealt the Istari for their role in Middle-earth as wizards.
The idea being, that, because the Istari are Maia in their nature, their power will certainly come from their own being, rather than from some stick they carry--but perhaps they carry the stick as a prop--the people of Middle-earth wouldn't know the difference, and it might make the power appear less inherent in the wizard. On the other hand, however, it's clear that some sort of power must reside in the staff, since when Gandalf the White breaks Saruman's staff, this is not merely a ceremonial act--it actually deprives Saruman of some/most of his power (it is said that his voice is pretty much all that is left thereafter). So... Gandalf fights the Balrog without his staff, with no apparent problems. Saruman has his staff broken and loses his power. How to reconcile these points? Perhaps it is not that the staff, itself, has any power, but rather that it houses a wizard's authority. The distinction between the two is subtle, but I think there is one. A staff broken for a wizard will not cripple his power, because his power does not reside there. However, a staff broken by a higher authority (as the returning Gandalf is to Saruman--whether in his own right or on behalf of Manwë--or Eru--is another matter), robs a wizard of his ability (or authority) to exercise his power. Does that make sense? Until and unless broken by a competent authority, a wizard's staff could be any old stick--but he would typically have to have one as the badge of his office. If broken by a competent authority, however, no matter that it was just some old stick, his ability to exercise his power was gone. Which leads to an interesting question... was Saruman a competent authority to break Gandalf's staff--thereby rendering his power inert? One assumes not, since he did not do any such thing when he had Gandalf prisoner in Isengard... but it's hardly conclusive. Was it because he didn't see the need? Because such an action would have involved the Valar? Or I am overcomplicating it, and it was merely that Saruman, though head of the order, did not have that authority? In which case, Gandalf returning as the White would be a separate matter from Gandalf returning empowered to divest Saruman of his authority. EDIT: Crossposted with Ibrîn, who seems to be taking a similar line.
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11-08-2009, 05:02 PM | #6 | |||
Gruesome Spectre
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All the same, the staff seems to have some quality of magic of its own, or at least the ability to channel it. Consider the Fellowship at Moria. Quote:
And earlier, when Gandalf, Bilbo, and the Dwarves were caught in the trees in The Hobbit: Quote:
'Wand' there, should surely be read for 'staff'. I think the staffs are both instruments of power, and, as Ibrin said, symbols of office.
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11-09-2009, 05:59 PM | #7 |
Sage & Onions
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Staff Position
Well all I know for sure is that Terry Pratchett claimed that a Wizard's Staff has a knob on the end .
I am temped to agree with Formy regarding the authority to 'practice magic' maybe resided in the staff, as I read it Saruman was deprived of his magical power, apart from his hypnotic voice, when Gandalf broke his staff. I wonder if a proportion, maybe even a majority, of an Istari's power did reside in their staff, or require the staff to allow its use? Could this have been one of the limitations that was imposed by the Valar when the Wizards were sent?
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11-11-2009, 06:06 PM | #8 | |||||
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As always, these are mere observations and speculations on my part and open to the utmost scrutiny
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11-12-2009, 11:09 AM | #9 |
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Interesting. I don't have my copy of the letters at hand, so I can't quote directly, but I do know that Tolkien said that Gandalf's wanderings "out of thought and time" meant that he left the Circles of the World, and was sent back by "the Authority," aka Eru. Whether or not his journey from life and back included any time spent in Valinor, he does not say. But he was returned directly to the top of Zirak-zigil, literally naked, and was reclothed by Galadriel and the Elves of Lothlorien. One can presume that either Gandalf took Glamdring with him, or Gwaihir picked it up for him, but no mention of him having a staff with him is made. Therefore, it would appear to follow that the staff he had as Gandalf the White came from the Elves of Lothlorien. If it had any special "power," I would think it either came from Galadriel, or from Gandalf himself.
I have speculated in other writings that in the fashioning of these "signets of office," each of the wizards might have been required to place something of their own power into them, not to imbue them with mundane magical ability, but as a pledge to their position as Stewards. Others would not be able to use it to make magic, but it would give the wizards a taste of what they would be dealing with in the matter of the Rings, and perhaps make them more inclined to stick to their purpose, as the power would (by plan) be returned to them only when they returned to Valinor, and were able to resume their natural forms. This is wholly speculation, mind you; there's absolutely no proof to support it, except perhaps in Saruman's statement about Gandalf wanting the staffs of all the Five Wizards, which indicates some degree of more than symbolic importance to the items (this thought, of course, is contradicted by the puzzling fact that when Gandalf was a prisoner in Orthanc, Saruman let him keep his staff. We know this because he had it and used it, if I recall correctly, when Gwaihir plucked him off the top of the tower). Ah, so much speculation, so little proof....
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11-12-2009, 12:04 PM | #10 |
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Perhaps Saruman invested much of his own power into his staff in order to increase his strength, much like Sauron did with the One Ring. Both beings were Maiar, after all.
Gandalf, always wary of worldly trappings and vigilantly keeping his eyes on his mission, chose to keep most of his own power inside of himself. This is why he was able to fight the Balrog without it.
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11-12-2009, 12:12 PM | #11 | |
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I don't see Saruman having any incentive to follow suit, especially since he was so well versed in ring-lore that he likely knew just how vulnerable Sauron had made himself by dividing his power.
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11-12-2009, 01:06 PM | #12 | ||||
Laconic Loreman
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Saruman is claiming Gandalf wants the Keys to Barad-dur (power over Sauron). crowns of seven kings (note: "of" seven kings, not "of the") - a symbolic statement by Saruman saying Gandalf wants power of seven kings, or power over Men, power over the physical realm of Middle-earth. If Saruman was referring to specific seven kings, it would be "of the" as he does in his next statement rods of the Five Wizards - the staffs being a symbol of the Istari power, Gandalf wants power over the Istari, power over the spiritual realm. What's ironic is Saruman is projecting his desires onto Gandalf. Quote:
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11-12-2009, 01:26 PM | #13 | |
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11-12-2009, 04:10 PM | #14 | |
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But seriously, what strikes me about the staffs in particular is how Tolkien avoids making them gimmicky. I think they very obviously have a lot of visual power as well - in terms of delineating a certain kind of authority.
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11-12-2009, 05:32 PM | #15 | |||||
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But seriously: Quote:
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11-13-2009, 01:53 PM | #16 | |||
Gruesome Spectre
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Along those lines, there is this quote from TTT, where Faramir tells Frodo and Sam about Gandalf's words to him years earlier: Quote:
Again, it's interesting that Gandalf gets the distinction of association with a staff. We don't know the Dwarven names for the other Istari, but presumably their names aren't derived from their attachment to a staff. Lastly, was Radagast described as having a staff when he met with Gandalf on the borders of the Shire? I don't have a copy of FOTR with me, but I don't remember any mention of one.
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11-16-2009, 03:37 AM | #17 |
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Gandalfs staff is mentioned at his arival because he is leaning on it, like an old man needing it support. At least that is theoverall impresion I got from the discribtion.
I think in the secene with Gandalf Radagasts staff was not mentioned, but Saruman confirmed that Radagast had one when he blamed Gandalf lustin all staffes of the five wizards. Respetfully Findegil |
11-16-2009, 05:54 AM | #18 | |
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11-16-2009, 07:24 AM | #19 |
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Well, as it is that point is moot since Saruman's rant prove beyond reasonable doubt all five Istari carried staffs, wouldn't you say? If not, Saruman's metaphor would make little sense.
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11-16-2009, 07:49 AM | #20 | |
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11-16-2009, 08:16 AM | #21 |
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Aha, I see.
Haven't read the whole thread and don't know if this has been brought up but one thing to consider in connection to this is Gandalf's second staff, the one he held as G the White after his previous one was broken in Moria. Now as I understand it, Gandalf *died* and was sent back again. A question to ponder is whether this coming and going only concerns his soul, ie that his soul left the body which remained on the mountainside and then was sent back, or if he was actually reincarnated or healed bodily in Valinor (or elsewhere) and then physically brought back. If the former is true, which is what I would favour, his new Gandalf the White staff would presumably have been fashioned by wood from the realm of Lorien and not out of the Undying Land. Hm. As I'm writing I seem to remember that he was sent back naked though, wasn't he? That would indicate that his physical body made the mystical journey, unless his last act before collapsing in a heap on the ground was uncloaking Then he could have had a new magical staff with him too I suppose as a staff can't possibly be considered a piece of clothing.
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"You can always come back, but you can't come back all the way" ~ Bob Dylan Last edited by skip spence; 11-16-2009 at 08:20 AM. |
11-16-2009, 08:48 AM | #22 | ||
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11-16-2009, 02:10 PM | #23 | |||
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A spur to thought
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Yes, most internet dictionaries do allow staffs as well as staves for the plural of staff, when meaning a walking stick or rod or wand signifying authority. [Reference: Dictionary.com ; Meriam-Webster online dictionary ]Yet they do not reject staves. Consider the suitability of staves! We are discussing JRR Tolkien, an English author whose work is so very much predicated upon language, and older forms of language in particular. His world of Middle-earth is--well, one might as well say, Sic transit gloria mundi, although we do attempt to relive it every day. In Tolkien's work, old and archaic forms come alive again. Would it not seem preferable then to recognise and respect the good Professor's delight in the particular and precise use of language by using a word which comes closest to this sense of language? The OED, the dictionary upon which Tolkien himself worked--not without some interesting results--has this to say about staves: Quote:
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11-16-2009, 03:30 PM | #24 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Staff infection?
Of course, "staff" could merely be a mistransliteration of "staph," short for "staphlococcus," which sheds a whole new light on the text. Could it be that the Valar's true reason for sending the Istari was to experiment on the possibilities of biological warfare?
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11-16-2009, 09:44 PM | #25 | ||
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As for skip's musing of what was meant by 'naked', I think that indicated Gandalf's power and spritual status were not so tightly veiled, not so much a physical appearance. 'Naked' in the sense that he was not as attached to the physical body as before, hence his statement to the Three Hunters that none of them had weapons that would harm him anymore. And also, Gwaihir's comment that Gandalf was so light after his return that he felt Gandalf would simply float to the earth like a feather if dropped, seems to point to a less physically 'there' Gandalf.
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11-17-2009, 11:19 AM | #26 |
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I believe a wizard uses a staff simply because constructing a giant, wooden badger would be unfeasible and simply too bulky to lug about. And imagine the maintenance and upkeep!
Besides, from a literary standpoint, Gandalf saying, "Saruman, your giant, wooden badger is broken!" simply does not have the serious tone necessary for such a stirring moment in the book. Although as a special effects sequence, Saruman's giant, wooden badger collapsing to the ground in a great crash of shards and splinters might be impressive. Ummm...have I mentioned that, once again, I have had far too much coffee to drink this morning?
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11-17-2009, 05:14 PM | #27 | |
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