Balrog Armor?

[Lord Halsar]

Quite recently, I felt the urge to search Gandalf's name in Google Image. At first, I thought it nothing special, just a few pictures of Ian McKellen in his white attire. But this particular piece of artwork caught my I and I looked at it more closely.GandalfFallsWithTheBalrog.jpg
At first I thought it nothing special, just another picture of Gandalf's battle with the demon, until something caught my eye. Look closely at the Balrog's chest and right-arm and you'll notice the plated armor. Would the Balrog(s) actually have armor of any sort, or would their likely thick-hide be enough to defend them against most attacks?

[Nazgûl-king]

An interesting thought, perhaps the Balrogs in the earlier ages had armor, though I would think that their skin would be tough enough. Perhaps they could have had tough skin, plus armor to make them even harder to beat.

[Lord Gothmog]

I have looked into this question and found some answers for you.

BoLT II: Fall of Gondolin/Glorfindel v Balrog

The ardour of Glorfindel drave that Balrog from point to point, and his mail fended him from its whip and claw. Now had he beaten a heavy swinge upon its iron helm, now hewn off the creature's whip-arm at the elbow. Then sprang the Balrog in the torment of his pain and fear full at Glorfindel, who stabbed like a dart of a snake; but he found only a shoulder, and was grappled, and they swayed to a fall upon the crag-top. Then Glorfindel's left hand sought a dirk, and this he thrust up that it pierced the Balrog's belly nigh his own face (for that demon was double his stature); and it shrieked, and fell backwards from the rock, and falling clutched Glorfindel's yellow locks beneath his cap, and those twain fell into the abyss.

Also

From BoLT II the Commentary on The Fall of Gondolin.
CT says the following:

The Balrogs are 'demons of power' (p. 181); they are capable of pain and fear (p. 194); they are attired in iron armour (pp. 181, 194), and they have whips of flame (a character they never lost) and claws of steel (pp. 169, 179).

This would certainly allow for an artist to put such armour in a picture. However, I don't know if there is any evidence for the armour to have been retained as the Balrogs became more powerful and less numerous in the later writings. (still have a book or two to check )

[Lord Halsar]

And yet despite this, most of the artwork that I have seen (including those of Glorfindel's battle) have shown the Balrogs with niether helm nor plate, only weapons and muscle.
I guess they skipped a number of details in their studies before making them.

[Lord Gothmog]

I have looked through HoME 10, 11 and 12 which have later writings and so far I have found no futher reference to amour for Balrogs. It may be that most of the images use later views which do not mention either the 'Claws of Steel' or 'Iron Amour'.

I know that my own image of the Balrog (from when I first read LotR) was powerful, demonic and simply covered by shadow. So armour is the last thing I would expect

[Imperica]

Walking the line of off-topic and on; John Howe the artist of that illustration is one of my favorite Middle-Earth artists.

[Alfirin]

Thats odd, I've always imagined Balrogs with armor if for no other reson than that they would need to be wearing something if for no other resan that that they would need somewhere to keep thier weapons (not only flaming whips, but also the swords shields and axes that they are said to have used at times) when they weren't using them.
On a slight veering I had have a question. We know that the balrogs whips burn with flames but waht about the swords and axes. For some reason I keep imagin them burning as well.

[Lord Gothmog]

Well, you don't need Armour to carry weapons, only belts for scabards and such.

As for Balrog weapons, they had of course Whips of Flame also they had Flaming Swords and Gothmog at least had an Axe Though I don't recall anything about that being aflame.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Alfirin

We know that the balrogs whips burn with flames but waht about the swords and axes. For some reason I keep imagin them burning as well.

Not sure about axes, but the swords are definitely burning:

Originally Posted by FotR; The Bridge of Khazad-Dum

From out of the shadow a red sword leaped flaming.

And a side note - someone had to say that: I don't see anything wrong on balrogs wearing armor, and from the quotes provided it seems they do. However, the fact that they were wearing armor implies one side detail. You know, if they wear armor, they most probably don't have wings! Mwahahahaha...

[Lord Halsar]

Ugh! I knew that the wings discussion would come up in this thread, and haven't we all heard well enough of THAT!
But nonetheless, the simple questions about flaming swords and axes have brought up another question in my mind. Would the armor also be alight with fire? Would the Balrog be wearing something rather... hot?

[Lord Gothmog]

Originally Posted by Lord Halsar

:Ugh! I knew that the wings discussion would come up in this thread, and haven't we all heard well enough of THAT!

Very true. I could never understand why there was so much argument over something that did not exist.

But nonetheless, the simple questions about flaming swords and axes have brought up another question in my mind. Would the armor also be alight with fire? Would the Balrog be wearing something rather... hot?

No doubt what ever the Balrog wore would definately be "HOT" but I think that Burning Armour would cause smoke to get in his eyes. Not good in a fight

[Farael]

Balrog's armour is an interesting matter. I'm on my laptop now so I don't have my word copy of LoTR for quotes, but when Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli meet Gandalf in Fangorn Forest, Gandalf says they have no weapons that can harm him. Since both Gandalf and the Balrogs were Maiar, one would assume that third-age weapons would not be able to hurt a Balrog.

However, since we see Glorfindel slaying a Balrog, it could be assumed that they could be harmed by SOME weapons.

So, in the first-age it seems likely (as shown before by others) that Balrogs wore armour. So the question is, would the lone Balrog that we know lived until the third age have kept their armour on?

Well, first of all we know this balrog was trapped/hybernating for a couple ages, so I'd assume that when he emerged at first he was still on "first-age mode" meaning that he'd go to battle with his armour on.

Whether he learned that no "modern" weapons would hurt him or not and decided to ditch the armour is anyone's guess. If I'm not mistaken, Gandalf's weapon was an ancient weapon from Gondolin so it COULD hurt the Balrog, as we see it does.

Perhaps the reason why Gandalf, who was forbidden from showing his full power, was able to beat a Maiar without such restrictions is that the Balrog was no longer wearing his armour

But of course, this is all mostly speculation

[Lord Gothmog]

Interesting points Farael.

Gandalf and the other Istari were forbiden from showing their full power in regards to the fight agains Sauron thereby preventing Men from becoming dependant on the intervention of "Higher Powers" in matters pertaining only to Middle-earth.

However, I do not believe that this would cause a problem in the fight between Gandalf and Durin's Bane. The main reason that I think this is that Gandalf did everything he could to ensure that this fight was private. He told the rest of the fellowship to leave before he attempted to stop the Balrog and when he was pulled after the balrog his last words were 'Fly you fools'.

So in the case of Gandalf vs Durin's Bane we have a private fight between 'Self-incarnate' Maia (Durin's Bane) and 'Incarnate' Maia (Gandalf). I think that by the time of TLoR it was not the weapons that was important but who was involved. Other than Maiar it was only "Great Elf Lords" who were able to defeat a Balrog and even then only at the cost of their own lives.

Even Gandalf who as an Incarnate Maia could only defeat the Balrog at the cost of the life of his physical body. Had he not been sent back (probably by Eru himself) this fight would have been the end of his mission. What chance then that any other in the fellowship could have even defeated the Balrog let alone continued after?

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Lord G, I agree: but I might quibble with 'self-incarnate' referring to Balrogs. Literally 'made of meat' doesn't really cover a creature with a fana of shadow and flame!

[Lord Gothmog]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hickli

Lord G, I agree: but I might quibble with 'self-incarnate' referring to Balrogs. Literally 'made of meat' doesn't really cover a creature with a fana of shadow and flame!

Thank you. I have no problem with your quibble I probably misused the term. I only used it to mean an Ainu who had come down into Arda and taken on a physical form. I could not think of a better way to express it.

[Lord Halsar]

Originally Posted by Lord Gothmog

No doubt what ever the Balrog wore would definately be "HOT" but I think that Burning Armour would cause smoke to get in his eyes. Not good in a fight

Well, there's where I have to disagree with you. Remember, the Balrogs would cloak themselves in shadow and flame, which, to anyone else, would be blinding. But to a demon of fire, it would be no trouble seeing through a viel of smoke when you cover yourself in something darker ALL of the time.

[Eönwë]

This might be slightly off subject, but do Balrogs have genders? I mean, how do they reproduce? Or do they? I knnow TOlkien got rid of the ideas of the children of the Vala, but was it also Maiar?

I also think that if Gandalf would be allowed to show his true power (but then he would be Olorin), he would be more likely to kill the Balrog, but when an earthly body like Gandalf, fights a celestial body (A Maia like Durin's Bane), then the earthly body dies. But because Olorin was a Maia he didn't properly die (because Maiar can't die)

[Lord Gothmog]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

This might be slightly off subject, but do Balrogs have genders? I mean, how do they reproduce? Or do they? I knnow TOlkien got rid of the ideas of the children of the Vala, but was it also Maiar?

We are not told what the gender of each Balrog was, but they would each show the gender of their basic person. They did not reproduce as like the Valar, Maiar were Ainur, of the 'Angelic spirits' that were before Arda.

I also think that if Gandalf would be allowed to show his true power (but then he would be Olorin), he would be more likely to kill the Balrog, but when an earthly body like Gandalf, fights a celestial body (A Maia like Durin's Bane), then the earthly body dies. But because Olorin was a Maia he didn't properly die (because Maiar can't die)

When Gandalf fought Durin's Bane they were both Maia clothed in an 'earthly body'. So when they fought, each 'Killed' the other. That is the physical body of each was so damaged that the spirit could no longer keep it 'alive'. Gandalf did not recreate his own body but was sent back to a Repaired/Recreated body. The Balrog, it would seem, did not have the power to create a new body for himself.

[obloquy]

Originally Posted by Lord Gothmog

We are not told what the gender of each Balrog was, but they would each show the gender of their basic person. They did not reproduce as like the Valar, Maiar were Ainur, of the 'Angelic spirits' that were before Arda.

How do you know they did not reproduce?

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Lord Gothmog

I have looked into this question and found some answers for you.

BoLT II: Fall of Gondolin/Glorfindel v Balrog

Also

From BoLT II the Commentary on The Fall of Gondolin.
CT says the following:

This would certainly allow for an artist to put such armour in a picture. However, I don't know if there is any evidence for the armour to have been retained as the Balrogs became more powerful and less numerous in the later writings. (still have a book or two to check )

Wow. I would have thought that balrogs wouldn't have worn armor. Happy to be wrong. That's cool.

[obloquy]

Originally Posted by Lord Gothmog

Even Gandalf who as an Incarnate Maia could only defeat the Balrog at the cost of the life of his physical body. Had he not been sent back (probably by Eru himself) this fight would have been the end of his mission. What chance then that any other in the fellowship could have even defeated the Balrog let alone continued after?

Actually, Tolkien tells us in Letters that Gandalf's death was due specifically to his self-restraint, implying that he could have defeated the Balrog without such a sacrifice had he chosen to disregard the rules of his mission. See here for more.