Plagiarism? Or Simple Coincidence?

[Lord Halsar]

I'm not meaning to point fingers with this thread, and I'm not looking for trouble, but it has come to my attention of several occurrences in both literacy and other sources that catch my suspicions of plagiarism.
The first is a scenario in the Inheritance Trilogy by Christopher Paolini. A mortal man named Eragon (sound familiar, Aragorn?) becomes infatuated to an elf princess named Arya (coincidence thy name is Arwen). Urgals-Orcs? Kull(correct me if that is misspelled) and Trolls? I'm seeing some similarity(even though the plot of the story itself seems more like that of Star-Wars than LotR to me).
The next is in J.K. Rowling's Harry Potter (again, not trying to raise trouble, just making a point). Giant spiders living in a dark forest? the name Longbottom is self-explainatory I hope.
And the last, is in a massively popular online game that many have grown to know and thrive on. World of Warcraft. Lich-King who was once a mighty Lord of men? Witch-king who was once a king of men. both of which ruled a frozen kingdom in the north of their world. And the name Anduin of the great river is also the name of the king of men who rules from the last bastion of human power in WoW.
Are all of these thing mere coincidences, accidents of all sorts? Or were they intentionally written and sold with full knowledge of the similarities that were already existent in the works of our beloved J.R.R.T?
For a final time I say, I am not trying to raise anger in anyone. Just saying how I see it, and I am not trying to discredit the authors and game that I have mentioned. I also realize that ther could indeed be much more to this list, but this was all that I could remember on short notice. Perhaps others will contribute to it....

[The Might]

Now, I know Christopher Paolini officially stated that both LotR and Star Wars were ag reat source of inspiration for him and considering his age I don't wonder that a lot is simply Tolkien's thoughts in a different but still very similar form.
And I personally don't hold it against him, if I were to write a fantasy book right now I would probably do something like that.
This is however also why I don't read his books. I mean, they may well be nice, but simply the fact that it's just LotR in another form with basically the same themes (that old guy as a Gandalf-like figure showing the young hero the way and all that).

Now, JKR...I quite doubt it. Names can well be coincidences and even if she took Longbottom so what? That's practically nothing. And giant spiders have been there for longer, I can recall some myths evisting in Japan about some giant spiders.
It can well be she used the books as a source of inspiration but I really can't see that many parallels, except of course again the Ganfalf-Frodo-like relationship between Dumbledore and Harry.

WoW...no comment on that. As far as WoW lore stuff is concerned I'm not really interested and I don't wonder they used the name like that.
I simply find the game a bad joke considering how Elves and Dwarves and all that are depicted there.

[Lord Halsar]

Yes. these were my thoughts as well after I posted this thread. But now I can't seem to recall anything that can be added to this point. I seem to remember that I did have many more examples of this matter, but I sadly cannot remember them.

[Alonna]

A number of parallels can be found between HP and LOTR. There's the similarity in names between Wormtail and Wormtongue who play similar roles of betrayal but are later spared from death. There's also what happens when the characters wear the locket horcrux, and it begins to affect them in ways similar to how the ring affects people.

[Alfirin]

As for Star Wars practically any fantasy can seem to be the origin of it. Lucas based all of the Star Wars charcters and the plot of the movies itself on mythological archetypes (He said so much) therefore all fantasy stories will seem to resonate with them since many of them draw from the same meta-legends. In fact I once read a great essay which drew parallels between Luke and Yoda's relationship in The Empire Strikes back and that between Miyamoto Yoshi-tsune and Sojobo the Tengu King in the classic Japanese legend Ushiwaka Maru .
as for Giant Spiders they too have a long an honorable history in fantasy, from the Japnese legend of the spider woan metioned earlier to the Lovecraft Mythos's Atlach-Nacha.

[Lalwendë]

If you look at just about any fantasy these days you'll find things that could be said to have come from Tolkien. It's not plagiarism, it's accident, inevitability or in some cases, lack of imagination, that's all. As for Rowling using the name 'Longbottom', well that's a common British surname

[Lord Halsar]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

If you look at just about any fantasy these days you'll find things that could be said to have come from Tolkien. It's not plagiarism, it's accident, inevitability or in some cases, lack of imagination, that's all. As for Rowling using the name 'Longbottom', well that's a common British surname

Exactly. That is why the thread is named "Plagiarism? OR Simple Coincidence?"

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

Hmmm... I've never read Harry Pooter or Erigon(or however you spell it), but my friend, Laurinquë probably would have many things to ad don this thread since she has read those books and really the only reason why she is on the Downs or finished reading LotR is because I would have killed her if she didn't. (She happens to love them now, and is anxious to watch the PJ movies with me(not to make her have any bad rep, since she is one of my best friends))

[Bêthberry]

Perhaps a detailed explanation of plagiarism would be helpful--something even a bit more elaborated than a mere definition.

Wiki on plagiarism

Indiana University student FAQ on plagiarism

University of North Carolina Student fact sheet on the big P

I seem to recall a very rough rule of thumb was 'seven or more words' in a coherent phrase, so similarity of single words or names would not be in itself sufficient evidence to prove the dastardly deed.

Then again, in the artistic world, imitation is said to be evidence of the finest form of flattery.

[davem]

I'd suggest reading some Icelandic Sagas, the Eddas, the Kalevala, Beowulf & the Mabinogion if you want to see blatant plagiarism on Tolkien's part - in fact, some of it is so blatant you can't believe he had the gall - luckily for him, the stuff he stole was out of copyright....

Of course, when its Tolkien we talk about 'sources' & 'influences' & stuff.....

(check my sig...)

[Lindale]

There's this book I just saw this afternoon. Tales Before Tolkien, published by the same publisher as my LotR and Sil and Hobbit (the American). Contains bits of the Icelandic sagas, a really short version of the Ring of the Nibelungs, and stuff I don't remember. Somewhere in the back cover it says that the book
s content influenced Tolkien and will continue doing so the next generations of creative writers. The nature of the old epics, isn't it?

Also, an interesting notion in Lit is that There is Nothing New in under the Sun.

For the Hero, example Aragorn, it follows a certain archetype. More or less the same as the hero thing with, say, Arthas or Luke Skywalker or whatnot. Prophecy before birth and so on: it's in Joseph Campbell's book The Hero with a Thousand Faces. And so on with characters like Gandalf, Iluvatar, Elendil and the fall of Numenor, the list is endless. Of course the details vary. For example, the "goddess" of Aragorn is Arwen, whereas Luke doesn't have one exactly. But they both have the wise old bearded man for their mentors.

In the University of the Philippines, this is an example of Plagiarism:

Old pond — frogs jumped in — splash! (the original stuff by Basho, the haikuist)

which I change into, say,

The river -- frogs jumping -- the sound of the water

(Of course it's very crudely done, but I hope you see the point.)

[Lord Halsar]

Well, I meant that the Inheritance Trilogy is mostly along the plot of Star-Wars, not LotR. After all, a young boy from an unimpressive home has his uncle murdered, finds a mentor who is later slain, leaves home to join with a group of rebels against a widespread empire while learning that he possesses a great power. And in the second book he goes off to find a new mentor in a forested realm and learns that his father was a highly important villain during the rise of the "Empire."
The Inheritance Trilogy really strikes me to be of more likeness to Star-Wars when it comes to the MAIN storyline. The minor sequences are where the similarities to Tolkien's work begin.

[Lord Halsar]

Originally Posted by Alfirin

As for Star Wars practically any fantasy can seem to be the origin of it. Lucas based all of the Star Wars charcters and the plot of the movies itself on mythological archetypes (He said so much) therefore all fantasy stories will seem to resonate with them since many of them draw from the same meta-legends. In fact I once read a great essay which drew parallels between Luke and Yoda's relationship in The Empire Strikes back and that between Miyamoto Yoshi-tsune and Sojobo the Tengu King in the classic Japanese legend Ushiwaka Maru .
as for Giant Spiders they too have a long an honorable history in fantasy, from the Japnese legend of the spider woan metioned earlier to the Lovecraft Mythos's Atlach-Nacha.

You sure know your Japanese folklore don't you. I can't even read most of their names, let alone the legends themselves(and believe me, I've tried).

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Then again, in the artistic world, imitation is said to be evidence of the finest form of flattery.

It's the very soul of Post-modernism, innit?

Originally Posted by davem

I'd suggest reading some Icelandic Sagas, the Eddas, the Kalevala, Beowulf & the Mabinogion if you want to see blatant plagiarism on Tolkien's part - in fact, some of it is so blatant you can't believe he had the gall - luckily for him, the stuff he stole was out of copyright....

Yep.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Völuspá
11–12. Nýi and Niði, Norðri and Suðri, Austri and Vestri, Alþjófr, Dvalinn, Bífurr, Báfurr, Bömburr, Nóri, Án and Ánarr, Ái, Mjöðvitnir, Veigr and Gandalfr, Vindalfr, Þráinn, Þekkr and Þorinn, Þrór, Litr and Vitr, Nár and Nýráðr, Reginn and Ráðsviðr — now I have told the list of Dvergar right.
13–15. Fili, Kili, Fundinn, Náli, Hepti, Víli, Hanarr, Svíorr, {Nár and Náinn, Nípingr, Dáinn, Billingr, Brúni, Bíldr and Búri}, Frár, Hornbori, Frægr and Lóni, Aurvangr, Jari, Eikinskjaldi.
14–16. To tell the talk, the Dvergar in the generation of Dvalinn were [as] a race of [conquering] lions upto [the generation] of Lofarr. They sought settlements from the halls of stone [to] Aurvangr ('plot of mud') to Jöruvöllr. There was Draupnir and Dolgþrasir, Hár, Haugspori, Hlévangr, Glóinn, {Dóri, Óri, Dúfr, Andvari,} Skirvir, Virvir, Skáfiðr, Ái, Álfr and Yngvi, Eikinskjaldi, Fjalarr and Frosti, Finnr and Ginnarr. So [they will] remember while the eras [of humans] live, the list of the long descent [of the ancestors] of Lofarr.

Have a look at this on Wikipedia, it's interesting!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse_dwarves

[The Might]

I would have liked to have a Dwarf named Frosti in the books...

Also Frár from those in the list is stolen...