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07-05-2007, 06:53 AM | #41 | |
Flame of the Ainulindalë
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Thanks for an interesting opening Fordim.
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Compare the viking heroes in tha sagas to Odysseus fex. What does Odysseus do when he finds her wife encircled by the suitors? A chivalric (or Roman) honour-code would insist that he takes his place as the master of the house and insists that the "guests" leave immediately after apologising the master and the lady of the house - maybe leaving some compensation as well. But what would and Icelandic hero do - or what does Odysseus? He will butcher them to the last man with no mercy or making deals as his honour has been wounded and that's the only way to clean it.
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07-05-2007, 07:27 AM | #42 | ||
A Mere Boggart
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The whole story becomes one of his blood feud - and in fact the build-up to this is also very Icelandic in that we have to go through a lot of chapters of background before we get to the 'Silmarillion' main thrust. We have Oaths, Kinslaying, Ship burning, whole cultures relocating overseas... Now just to add to the original thrust about Numenor, I found this interesting quote from the letters: Quote:
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07-05-2007, 12:08 PM | #43 | |
Blithe Spirit
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07-05-2007, 08:56 PM | #44 |
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
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Perhaps then choosing specific texts (or sequences within the text) wherein the Sagas or Eddas resonate the strongest in Tolkien's work, and then showing correlations to the source material would be the best avenue to divine the Sagas' direct effect on Tolkien's work; rather than attempting to follow a single strand through his entire corpus.
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08-19-2007, 09:33 PM | #45 |
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Iceland
Beg pardon, but Iceland's pre-human inhabitants were not all trolls and elves.
Here is a link to a loose translation of the Official version of the tale of the Guardian Spirits of Iceland (I have my own version, from a unique perspective.) Official version of "The Guardian Spirits of Iceland" Last edited by Pieeyeddragon; 08-19-2007 at 09:34 PM. Reason: clarification |
08-20-2007, 02:44 AM | #46 | ||
Illustrious Ulair
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Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
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“Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects." Last edited by davem; 08-20-2007 at 02:49 AM. |
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08-20-2007, 04:41 PM | #47 |
Blithe Spirit
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Níð - now there's a word for your translation thread, Davem. I would say "slander" was a better word than scorn because it has a formal connotation. The Svinafell troll insult Fordim and I referred to earlier was a níð which was punishable by full outlawry in Iceland. For more on insults and their linguistic and legal implications:
http://ragnarokr.com/Scholarship/nidsenna.html I think Fordim is right btw. The bickering in the Icelandic sagas is not something you'd ever see in Tolkien, except among the trolls or orcs. Gunnhild is a fascinating character, actually. She crops up in lots of the sagas and I see her as a dark Galadriel - maybe what Galadriel could have become if she'd taken the Ring... Gunnhild learnt her arts of magic from the Sami of Finland, not the Valar...she also turns up for example in Njalssaga, where she kickstarts the whole feud that destroys the two factions when she renders the Icelander Hrutr impotent by her witchcraft, so that when he goes back home his bride Unnr is most unimpressed and wants a divorce...
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