Werewolf Four and Thirty: Bloodbath in the Anduin Vale

[Aganzir]

I guess Fea said she's moving toDay or something, so maybe she isn't laying low deliberately.

[the guy who be short]

Originally Posted by Sixth Wizard

Well, we know Fea has played WereWolf before, so perhaps she is just laying low deliberately... But that was a bit jumpy Shorty. We have to use SOME strategy with quiet peeps, don't we? I don't know what kind of strategy, but something.

How about the "lynch all the quiet people alphabetically starting randomly at F" strategy?

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I guess Fea said she's moving toDay or something, so maybe she isn't laying low deliberately.

Ah. So she did. Never mind... I will try to get her lynched tomorrow instead.


For the record, those seeming innocent to me at the moment include:

Noggy - sensible views about lynching the quiet.
Boro - sticks to his views in, what I feel, is genuine earnestness.
Rune - I think he speaks sensibly about lynching the quiet earlier rather than later.

These three will be exempt from my list when my random vote is generated.

I'm not feeling too happy about Shastanis -

Originally Posted by Shastanis

I do agree with your point, though, Nogrod. Lynching those who contribute little, or nothing at all, would be the most beneficial to us, unless there's a good reason to lynch someone active. Forcing a wolf to speak up and discuss can lead to a disastrous mistake.

Where on earth did that random sentence come from? It doesn't make sense to me, nor did Nogrod say any such thing.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by tgwbs

Where on earth did that random sentence come from? It doesn't make sense to me, nor did Nogrod say any such thing.

I understood he meant a Wolf can make a disastrous mistake that should reveal him/her, if forced to speak. That would make more sense.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

But this is such a big game (20 players) that I think we shouldn't rule out the possibility of four wolves, or some other nasty things.

If the evil team consists of just three wolves, or three wolves and a cobbler, you can eat my head. I don't think Sauce'd make such an unbalanced game.

I should maybe be going soon and it would be most annoying to vote right now. I mean, I don't suspect anybody really, and if I come back, something might have changed and then there might have been a good reason to vote somebody... ... ...

The only ones that I suspect even a tiny bit are xyzzy and Boro - and the evidence against either of them is ridiculous. AND I'd hate to lose Boro on Day1 if he's innocent. (And actually even if he's a wolf or whatever. The game would be less intriguing.)

So now I'm debating if I should vote xyzzy (argh) or just not vote right now (argh).

[Mithalwen]

Mithalwen *offers her apologies for her late arrival* .. I may only have time to read through the notes of the discussion just now.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Rikae

While Nogrod is right in objecting to Xyzzy's words...I'd say pointing out that casting suspicion on the first to speak is in itself, at the best, badly reasoned, and at worst, wolfish....

I would just mention that in the ancient history of the werewolf plagues that have afflicted communities, it was found on a few occasions that a wolf had been the first speaker ..eager perhaps to influence opinion away from themselves.

It is a bit routine to have "Lynch Boromir" as the default setting? He so often gives out "vibes" and turns out to be an innocent stirring discussion or a gifted biding his time... certainly it is generally more useful to the village to keep talkers rather than quiet folk if push comes to shove. But for me it is far too early to think about making choices - especially since in the circumstance I will not be able to get my decision ratified by my commune with the two-thirds majority usually required on matters that concern external affairs....

However I need perhaps to read forward from the start rather than backwards from now to get a true picture.

[Thinlómien]

Hmmm.... I guess I won't vote now and if I can't get online myself I can vote by asking Noggie or Agan to post my vote in case SPM agrees with it...

[the guy who be short]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I understood he meant a Wolf can make a disastrous mistake that should reveal him/her, if forced to speak. That would make more sense.

Oh... that does make sense! Thanks Aganzir. Wouldn't want to lycch somebody due to semantics...

Originally Posted by Lommy

So now I'm debating if I should vote xyzzy (argh) or just not vote right now (argh).

Or use a random number generator?

[Aganzir]

Kath: I know I had been thinking about the number of the wolves myself, too (probably everyone has); but then asking it would make a nice cover for a wolf, and that's what I thought when I read Kath's first post.

xyzzy: There's not much to go on, but I don't consider him suspicious just because of his "suspicion" on Kath.

Shasta: He has said nothing that should have made me worry about him, but I get a bad feeling of his posts.

Menel: I agree with him about forcing the wolves to talk. But lynching ye unhelpfulle - I don't know. I see the logic, but I don't know if it's wise to force the wolves to be helpful, because they won't actually help us - on the contrary, a wolf making analyses etc. is far from useful; they twist everything and mislead us, and when the wolf is dead, what can one make out of the analysis?
Anyway I think he's probably innocent.

Rune: He speaks sense, and not things I think a wolf would say.

Nogrod: At the moment I feel quite safe about him (though I still think I would never catch a wolf-Nogrod). His suggestion of lynching the quiet ones is good, I think, and as he's been reasonable and vocal, I'm inclined to consider him innocent.

Rikae: It's hard to say anything about her.

Isabellkya: Not much to go on, but I fail to see any "wolf hints".

Boro: I've no idea, but I don't think lynching him toDay would be a good thing to do. He's just so neutral.

Durelin: Amusing, but not much to say. I don't know what I should think of her vote.

Sixth: Neutral.

Lommy: Innocentish.

tgwbs: I've never played with him, and don't know his style. There's something slightly suspicious in him, but I don't know if it's just his style, so I probably won't vote for him toDay.

Mith: I will probably send this before she's managed to say anything more.

Possibly innocent:
Menel
Rune
Nogrod
Lommy

Possibly guilty:
Kath
Shasta
tgwbs

No idea:
xyzzy
Rikae
Isabellkya
Boro
Durelin
Sixth
Mith

Have not spoken yet:
Mormegil
Gil-Galad
Volo
Legate
Fea

I have no idea who to vote yet (luckily there's still plenty of time left). I don't think anyone is that suspicious. I guess I'll vote someone silent.

edit: xed since Mith's second post.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by the guy who be short

Or use a random number generator?

You know that I'm not for random things or matemathical theories...

Anyway, now I go. Let's hope I'll be back in the late afternoon.

edit: xed with Agan

[Volo]

Sorry for coming a bit late, it was a long way after all. My name is Asfaras of Itgets. Oh, and in case you're wondering, it is fine for the folks of Itgets to have hair all over their body.

Thoughts go as such: Don't lynch the unhelpful ones as they are probably just confused innocents. Don't lynch the quiet ones as they probably have a reason for it or just enjoy that playing style.
Where do we get by this? Pretty much nowhere, but I do think that the "unhelpful" are more probably innocent. I have too mixed feelings on the quiet ones...
Having that said, the image of Menel jumps in my mind. But I have seen him fall too early so many times, that I'll avoid voting him, especially as he is suspicious even when not evil. So I'd like Boromir to consider this too.

Lommy, would you quit for once this voting of Xyzzy for no real reason.


EDIT: Xd with everything since #47

[Volo]

Sorry, forget what I said in my last post. Xyzzy does, for once, look suspicious.

[Boromir88]

But this is such a big game (20 players) that I think we shouldn't rule out the possibility of four wolves, or some other nasty things.~Aganzir

Or even the return of the great bear. That could be just as bad as an additional wolf. I've heard tales of the Beornings populating the area...dangerous men they are.

Mith has my alarm going as well.

it was found on a few occasions that a wolf had been the first speaker ..eager perhaps to influence opinion away from themselves.

Now Mith often does say this. I've seen her say it countless amounts of times, and she's right a few times the first poster has been a wolf. But, that means the vast majority of the time this is not true. I think it's better to oepn up the field of suspects a bit and reasonable to say there might be a wolf in the first 5-6 people who posted, to get their claws in early. To limit it to the first poster (and Kath has already received a vote) looks a little wolfy, Mith.

Ye best lynching candidate is a Wolfe that posteth something that inadvertently giveth away too much.

I concede that our good knight has a good point there.

Edit: x-ed with everyone since Aganzir's post

[Volo]

We, the race of Vehade, have a, possibly peculiar to you, view of the world: We think that what we feel is the complete oppisite of the truth. Obeying the law of oppositism we have so far been only happy.

Why do I tell you this sacred wisdom? Because I am afraid, afraid for my life.

The Witch Burner Nogrod so reminds me of the Wolf Nogrod that I feel like suspecting him. But, as the wise say, the feeling goes wrong. And so it has gone every time I suspected Nogrod, feeling has gone astray and he managed to end up innocent.

I shall not vote for him, for given reason.

[Kath]

OOC: Listen guys I'm really sorry but my day has just become unexpectedly busy and this is the last chance I'm going to have to be online.

Therefore I will vote as abstaining is never helpful but as I've only had time to skim through the thread I really don't have much to go on. My vote goes to:

++RIKAE

She seems very testy for it being so early in the game. Could be just a defense of her ideas which do seem to be being rather heavily pounded by Boro, but then continuous defense of ideas rather than coming up with anything truly constructive could be wolvish.

[Volo]

And before anybody goes to accuse Kath: That, if anything, is her style!

[the guy who be short]

Unless anybody comes up with anything interesting in the next hour, my random number generating machine has come up with the following:

Ran#x16+1 = 3.288

Meaning, of course, that durelin will get my vote.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Hi all. I'm here, reading fast. I'll let you know what I think once I catch up.

[Meneltarmacil]

Welle, I am voting:

++xyzzy

He is quite silente for ye moste parte, and what he did say was pretty suspiciouse.

[Volo]

Rikae also feels like the Wolf Rikae. So, a reason not to vote for her then...

[Aganzir]

Volo, is this what you meant when you warned us in the Admin thread that your logic will be weird? Because I find this weird, if not even suspicious.

How can you think someone is innocent if you have a feeling s/he is a wolf?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Greetings, all folks. I am the DeLegate of Amon Lanc, whose people live now under the shadow of the Enemy, near the gates of his very citadel of darkness, yet they are unbeaten and still free, like the white doves of peace flying under the horrible stormy clouds. For this, I am not surprised by the terror that came upon this village. I see that the discussion of how to stop this threat has already started, so I'm diving in.

First, I think there's been quite a lot of speculation about "quiet ones" and "not quiet ones". Though I have experience from very recent past that indeed these were the quiet ones who were a threat, I will be careful about not getting into the other extreme, that is, starting bloodthirstingly killing all who say nothing or a little. It is true however, that in later time of the game, I will be for lynching people like this, because you'd say they had enough time to speak and they didn't. I mean (as someone already said here before) that on the first Days, I'll back from doing something like that (some people might not even get much online, e.g. Fea today). However, as three or four days pass, I'd also focus on the silent ones, because if they wanted, they could speak. I think it was Rune who already mentioned it here somewhere and I think it's a good opinion (even if it were not good to lynch the quiet ones, when this is said now, people can act according to it and if they don't, they can't blame those who lynch them, if you understand what I mean). On this point only I would point that Isabellkya posted just a in-character post, saying she'd be back (or so I understood it) and then disappeared for good, which is sort of, you know... irresponsible? (at least)

Now to the other debates running here. I think xyzzy's accusation of Kath, whatever hasty it might be, was a good start if nothing else. Personally I think it's not to be classificated rightaway as wolfish, because xyzzy has never acted much and this might just be his style (though speaking of him, I'd like to say that I see he promised to post more and still there is not that much from him).
What I mean by saying it was a good start: because something like that, even though it's not supported much, is at least doing something and not just talking about nothing. Because, after all, there might be some truth on the first poster being a wolf, why not, it can be a good "hiding in the light". Of course then, xyzzy's move might have been just that one of a Wolf waiting for a person he can accuse, but from the little I know of him, I think he can be bolder than that (accusing like this surely brings attention). For the time being, I'm not for building anything against xyzzy, and not even for kath, whose behavior I find "normal" (without anything suspicious).

Who might seem a little bit suspicious to me is Nogrod, or also Meneltarmacil, "ye olde knighte". Of course Nogrod generally speaks much, why not, he's one of the stable "vocal" players. However, this time he seems a little bit sneaky, like a creeping shadow accusing here and there with thought-through intention... (that's the imagination I get from it). Normally he is more vocal and his posts seem sincere. This time I get the feeling it's somewhat slippery.

And Menel...

Originally Posted by Menel

If someone simply flieth under ye radar and poste a little to show that he/she is still arounde but offereth little of value (which thou callest "keeping a low profile"), Boromir88, that person is no better than a silent one. In facte, someone like that is probably even more likely to be a Wolfe. We wante ye Wolves to avoide such behavior, so that shoulde be just as lynch-worthy.

...he seems, I think, misusing the silence too much. Cf. what I said above about it. So whatever nice ye olde knighte be as charactere, I don't like ye looke of his behavioure.

Other things. I don't understand (as probably many) Durelin's vote. Just a random shot or what? As someone said here, we have no retractions, so what?

Lommy by the way seems also a little un-natural from the structure of her post. But that may be just a feeling. Other people who were spoken about loudly here I feel quite good.

One question to Volo: is that what you meant by saying that you'll be behaving weird here? Doing the opposite than how you feel? Trying to see if your senses always deceive you?
(EDIT: x-ed with Aganzir, who asked exactly the same)

That would be it, basically, for now. Will be back later.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Agan

I don't think a newbie-wolf would, or even could, be brave enough to try to catch the eye of the cobbler, when there's a risk that someone else notices it too.

I wouldn't be so sure. I did just that as a newbie wolf myself.

Honesty, as I read over the thread I was composing my own post in my head, and had decided long before I got to Kath's vote that I would say that she was the one who felt most evil to me. Now, seeing that she voted for me, this might appear to be vengence; but what can I say...there was something about her posts that feels very calculated and very tense. It's not much, but it was the strongest hint of wolfishness I had seen so far.
I also don't know why she claims that I'm defending my ideas instead of being constructive. I didn't think I was doing that...or being testy for that matter. I simply don't feel like beating around in the bush this time around.
Actually, though, Kath's somewhat defensive response makes me suspect her less; but I am still uneasy about her.

Xyzzy could be worth voting for today. Mind you, I don't think he's done anything overtly suspicious; but Day1's usually end in the lynching of an innocent who is either quite talkative or behaving erratically - and these will be the very people who will be easier to read later on. I admit, I am on principle opposed to the "I'm quiet, take it or leave it" attitude Xyzzy displays, and if he's a wolf, he might just coast to victory while the rest of us kill those who make more noise. If he's innocent, at least his death means a more active ordo won't die in his stead.

One other thing...I have a feeling Lommy's buttering me up. Watch it, girlie, I haven't forgotten how you tried to steal my man!

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

never is a wolf going to appear unhelpful

Never say never, dear. And never forget who you play with. There are a half dozen on this moot list whose potential for 'never' isn't something I'll assume about.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Here's one more supporter of "lynch someone you can't form a picture about because of his/her constant absence if you don't have a (good) reason to lynch a louder person/ a contributor"-tactics.

I agree. If within a couple days, you still have no clue who a certain player is, I think you should have no real reservations about mercilessly martyring them to the cause. In a game with evidence based entirely on language, people who shirk in their ability to use it are a waste of time and energy. In chess, you let the pawns go first.

Originally Posted by TGWBS

Yes, I agree, let's lynch all those quiet ones. Starting with that there Feanor *points*. Why does she say nothing? Why is she painting us?

Aww, I missed you too, darling. Would you like to be painted in almost-ripe-banana green? Or would you prefer blue jay blue? I'm a happy impressionist, so you might not recognize yourself by the time I'm done, but if you're lucky, I won't paint you with fangs. Give me reason to, mind you, and I'll paint a very pretty picture of you savaging the moot. I'm withholding opinion on this matter for a little while.

Originally Posted by The Sixth Wizard

Well, we know Fea has played WereWolf before, so perhaps she is just laying low deliberately... But that was a bit jumpy Shorty. We have to use SOME strategy with quiet peeps, don't we? I don't know what kind of strategy, but something.

As I'd already mentioned, I spent yesterday moving from school to home for the summer. And while I'd happily lay low deliberately, yesterday wasn't intentional. Look me up if I seem ridiculously unhelpful later on.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I guess Fea said she's moving toDay or something, so maybe she isn't laying low deliberately.

Ooh! Somebody beat me to it. It's nice seeing people remember my words. Thanks, Aganzir.

On a side note, if you haven't realized it, I'm writing this post in chronological unedited order as I read what I've missed. So if anything is redundant or if I change my mind, it's for that reason.

Originally Posted by Tiggy

Ah. So she did. Never mind... I will try to get her lynched tomorrow instead.

My thanks for your generosity.

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

It is a bit routine to have "Lynch Boromir" as the default setting?

As a rule, I've noticed that it's routine to have "Lynch ____" as default, wherein the person whose sneakiness you most respect gets to fill in the blank. If the phantom was playing, I'd campaign for his death first day because he can't be trusted. Savvy?

In this game, the list of people I have no natural trust for (based experiencially) are:

Mormegil
Nogrod
Boromir88
Kath

And myself, but I don't count.

They would fit into a routine lynch campaign even if only for the reason that I know from watching them that their seeming is often at odds with their being. Knowing they could fool you if they wanted to doesn't make for restful moot-nights.

Still, as of right now, I have no real suspicion of any of them.

TBC--

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Fresh Snow:
Nogrod
Boromir88
Thinlómien
Legate of Amon Lanc
Kath
the guy who be short
Rune Son of Bjarne

Blood-stained:
Mormegil (perpetually so, said with love)
Mithalwen (because I say so, also with love)

Shrug-worthy:
Gil-Galad
Shastanis Althreduin
Aganzir
Rikae
Durelin
Volo
Meneltarmacil
The Sixth Wizard
Isabellkya

++XYZZY

Because I have nobody better to vote for at the moment.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Interesting I too have no trust for Mormegil . . .

Anyways I see that a small case is building up around Menel and if it continues I would not be suprised to see him lynched soon. I however will not join the cause just yet as I have a history of finding Menel suspiciouse, advocating his death, only to find him innocent. Of course this could be the time he is guilty, but just for now I shall not be voting for him.

I could actually say the same thing about Boro, i always find him a bit suspicouse. The main difference is that sometimes I am right and he is furry.

Anyways I will have to vote soon and it is going to be a pretty random vote as I have noticed anything worthy of a vote yet.

[the guy who be short]

Originally Posted by Legate

I think there's been quite a lot of speculation about "quiet ones" and "not quiet ones". Though I have experience from very recent past that indeed these were the quiet ones who were a threat, I will be careful about not getting into the other extreme, that is, starting bloodthirstingly killing all who say nothing or a little. It is true however, that in later time of the game, I will be for lynching people like this, because you'd say they had enough time to speak and they didn't. I mean (as someone already said here before) that on the first Days, I'll back from doing something like that (some people might not even get much online, e.g. Fea today). However, as three or four days pass, I'd also focus on the silent ones, because if they wanted, they could speak. I think it was Rune who already mentioned it here somewhere and I think it's a good opinion.

Now then... What you're saying seems to be the opposite of what ole Rune said. He said kill the quiet now, because it may be too late when we get in a few days. This means we can kill the loud people later on. I like this idea. You, on the other hand, advocate killing the quiet later on, which I think is a bit of a bad idea. Later on, we'll still have very little idea about the quiet people, but we'll have formed strong opinions about the loud. We would therefore probably end up, as ever, lynching the loud.

Not accusing you, just pointing this out.

And in the vein of killing the quiet,

++DURELIN

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Volo, is this what you meant when you warned us in the Admin thread that your logic will be weird? Because I find this weird, if not even suspicious.

How can you think someone is innocent if you have a feeling s/he is a wolf?

Exactly this. I think somebody whom I think Wolf is innocent, because usually they are innocent.

Originally Posted by Legate the delegate of Amon Lanc

One question to Volo: is that what you meant by saying that you'll be behaving weird here? Doing the opposite than how you feel? Trying to see if your senses always deceive you?

Yes to you too. Last - and not only last - game I was so far from catching the Wolves as possible, except after I was already dead.

Originally Posted by Legate de Legate of Amon Lanc

Who might seem a little bit suspicious to me is Nogrod, or also Meneltarmacil, "ye olde knighte". Of course Nogrod generally speaks much, why not, he's one of the stable "vocal" players. However, this time he seems a little bit sneaky, like a creeping shadow accusing here and there with thought-through intention... (that's the imagination I get from it). Normally he is more vocal and his posts seem sincere. This time I get the feeling it's somewhat slippery.

Yup, that's the one. But I'll laugh if Nogrod and Menel are Wolves, again.

What tgwbs said there is true. So, I'll vote for Xyzzy is we don't find a better alternative. After all, he'll probably remain a mystery for as long as he's here...

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Durelin is always a mystery to me so she will recive my vote.

++Durelin

(I am voting this early because I have to go to work soon and wont be back until 30 min after the deadline)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by the guy who be short

Now then... What you're saying seems to be the opposite of what ole Rune said. He said kill the quiet now, because it may be too late when we get in a few days. This means we can kill the loud people later on. I like this idea. You, on the other hand, advocate killing the quiet later on, which I think is a bit of a bad idea. Later on, we'll still have very little idea about the quiet people, but we'll have formed strong opinions about the loud. We would therefore probably end up, as ever, lynching the loud.

Ah-ha! Indeed, I must've misread it somehow. Okay, in that case I'm opposing to it. Though I must say, as I read it now, it's a good idea in the fact that if we lynch someone quiet early, we'll be "right" to do it. I can't forget that I said something very similar in my first game when I was a wolf (I said: "lynching a silent innocent is ok because he is worth nothing for the village"), however, interesting thing is that all the village was after me because of saying it (well, those who remember it know it wasn't much of a big case, but what I want to say is that it created a wave of disagreement. Now here there are several people saying basically the same, and everyone thinks it okay? Just meditating on this, because, in fact, I agree with that - I was honest in this opinion even back then: But why now, with many people being the same, no one protests vehemently against it, as they did before?)
Now back to the topic - I think, actually, lynching quiet ones is a good thing to do if you have no better suspect. Especially at the beginning, when the voting is (let's confess it) quite random. Basically said (and once again, it sounds quite cruel): "Even if we lynch an innocent, it isn't such a loss, it's his fault, he should have been more vocal." Your thoughts are logical on this. But how comes suddenly everyone thinks it is a good idea and no one protests? If it were such a great idea, why didn't everyone do it in the games before? And, mainly, note that from my experience before, I was a Wolf when I adviced that. Why I said it then? Because all the wolves were vocal. And with players we have this time ( ) I wouldn't wonder if all the wolves were vocal. And, if you once start this strategy (of voting out quiet ones), the wolves, unless they are completely stupid, will speak up. Of course it will force them to participate more, thus, be more vulnerable to be caught lying or something like that. But that wouldn't compare with killing quiet innocents, who may even be Gifted. And the biggest problem I see with this is, as I said in my earlier post, that we might accidentally lynch a quiet innocent, who had the bad luck not to get to the computer on Day 1, for whatever reason; or even didn't have chance to speak up yet because his timing is bad, and some people who have to leave their computers already have to vote now, and just because he arrives five minutes after them they classify him as "non-posting" and vote him. If anything, I'd leave this strategy on Day 1 out. It's in nothing better than voting for a vocal player because he seems fishy to you based on several Day 1 posts.
EDIT: x-ed with Volo&Rune

[Volo]

Well, I'd rather vote Xyzzy than Durelin as she is proven a great player. Give her a chance!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Volo

Yup, that's the one. But I'll laugh if Nogrod and Menel are Wolves, again. :

What do you mean by "again"?

Originally Posted by Volo

What tgwbs said there is true. So, I'll vote for Xyzzy is we don't find a better alternative. After all, he'll probably remain a mystery for as long as he's here...

Hmm, I think xyzzy was sort of more active toDay than he usually is (well, mainly by the vote for Kath) As I said, I don't like lynching the quiet - btw why don't you lynch morm then? It will be the most logical, because he didn't appear yet! (<=this is a joke, of course, but it has logic in it: if I were for the idea you present here, I'd lynch him, since he didn't say anything, point.)

[Boromir88]

Never say never, dear. And never forget who you play with.~Fea

When I say 'never' I mean I would bet the farm. And afterall by your own admission how do you know what's going on in this complex head of mine? Maybe I'm using reverse-psychology, maybe I'm not, maybe I'm setting a trap...or maybe I'm only making the wolves believe that I'm setting a trap? Or maybe I only want to make the wolves think that I'm thinking about setting a trap. You get in their heads and get them doubting, aye, make them as lost to knowing our thoughts as we are to knowing who they are.

Well Delegate from Amon Lanc, I wouldn't say no one is objecting. I raised my concerns...though now as staunch as no doubt you have done. But, nevertheless I addressed some problems and hence when one who propsoses this idea (Menel) is my primary target.

I'm much more in line with Nogrod's thinking:

If there is a reason to lynch someone who is active, let's lynch her/him, but if not then let's pick the ones who try to ride for free. Okay?

I would like to add the qualifier of let it not just be a randomly selected quiet person, but at least someone who we get a wierd feeling about.

The reason I am suspicious of Menel, is because it came off to me as if he was saying something almost completely different from Nogrod. And that was let's just start lynching unhelpful people to make the wolves talk. When we recklessly charge forward with one consensus and plan as far as what to do, it's far too easy for the wolves to jump on and manipulate what's going on.

So, my proposal is, let everyone do whatever the heck they want and go after the people they find to be suspicious. Umm...isn't that basically how it's happened all these years of cursed villages? To have one plan of 'we will lynch the quiet to make the wolves talk' the wolve no exactly what we will be doing and therefor it is much easier for them to manipulate what is going to happen. Not only that but it puts us in a tough bind at the end when we wasted away all these days of what could have been quality wolf-hunting and don't have any more days to waste!

I think the risk is far too great. Not only will the wolves be able to manipulate who gets lynched (as they will know this 'plan') but it seems mostly random, so there is a minute chance to find a wolf and we have no idea how many gifted we have to help us, so there may be a greater chance that we whack a gifted (as Legate brings up).

So, yes, I say each person do whatever the heck they want, just say whatever the heck they want. What's wrong with doing it the old fashion way? Pah, I spit on all these whacked out crackpot plans that is creating a wide village consenus.

[Volo]

Originally Posted by delegate de Legate of Amon Lanc

What do you mean by "again"?

Just a WW from ago. The one modded by Glirdan with both Menel and Nogrod as Wolves. My first game.

Originally Posted by delegate de Legate of Amon Lanc

Hmm, I think xyzzy was sort of more active toDay than he usually is (well, mainly by the vote for Kath) As I said, I don't like lynching the quiet - btw why don't you lynch morm then? It will be the most logical, because he didn't appear yet! (<=this is a joke, of course, but it has logic in it: if I were for the idea you present here, I'd lynch him, since he didn't say anything, point.)

The logic is not about the players whom we know to contribute. Though it sure would be nice if Durelin and Mormegil would speak up!

Rikae's accusation of Izzie is very wierd and from my perspective a good cover for a Wolf (remembering my own Wolf-game). There are loads of ways to relay information and anyway, f.ex. Nogrod talk could be as message-filled as Izzie's...

Boro feels innocent because of his opinion about LTQ (lynch the quiet) and how he phrases it. Though you never know with Boro, and my logic telling me vote for him...

Aganzir feels evil and helpful, so probably is good.

tgwbs feels very good and helpful, so could be evil.
(I don't want to vote either of the two now.)

[Volo]

Hmmm.... I guess I won't vote now and if I can't get online myself I can vote by asking Noggie or Agan to post my vote in case SPM agrees with it...

Originally Posted by Boromir

Or even the return of the great bear. That could be just as bad as an additional wolf. I've heard tales of the Beornings populating the area...dangerous men they are.

You the Bear? The role is new to me, what is it? A Shade-type creature? Or a cobbler with a kill? Or just a plain lonely Wolf?

Gah, Legate, your text is nearly as porridge as mine text... Much more confusing than your usual talk that I very much respect for it's clearness. ("Enter" not working? If yes, ok. If no, I'll vote for you to climb out of the porridge )

[Mithalwen]

I am back and intend to read through properly (and in the correct order this time )- find out who has been opressing whom...

[Mithalwen]

[QUOTE=Volo]

the Bear? The role is new to me, what is it? A Shade-type creature? Or a cobbler with a kill? Or just a plain lonely Wolf?

QUOTE]

It seems my role is historian as much as anything so far - but once again as" a point of order" , the werebear in earlier skirmishes was effectively a lone wolf. They had a kill of their own and they only won if they were the sole survivor.


Oh yes the beginning ....

[Durelin]

Oh stop it, Runie, tugwubs. You're making me blush.

[Mithalwen]

Well I have read through and considering how large the village is, not a lot has been said. If for once, the "lynch the quiet if you can't do anything better " that usually I am opposed for suggesting is now in favour we are going to have a lot of choice....

Morm and Gil haven't spoken. Isabellkya has made her slightly odd first post (but this has been already commented on as have most of the things I have noted ), many have near average 3/4/5 post counts. Rikae and Volo have posted double that but seem to be the short, "talking to self posts" that can happen when you are the only person around (or posting perhaps to be more precise).

I have had a look at the narrative and the only firm conclusion I drew was that there is more than one gifted "those among you", and more than one wolf - probably more than two since, I think it would be unusual and technically incorrect ot use some when referring to two. Two wolves in such a large village would be suprising but there is a precedent *cough Fea cough*.

There doesn't seem to be any clear indication of other roles eg werebear / cobbler but that doesn't mean there aren't, and there may be characters who come into play later in the proceedings such as a mythomaniac or cursed. However there is possibly an unclear suggestion. When Sauce says : you must choose each day one of your number to face death and continue doing so until you have found all of the murderous fiends. Some among you who are innocent will die at the hands of their companions, I am not sure if he means that the innocent will be lynched by other innocents, and it should have read your companions (to my picky linguistician's brain) - or that the "their" does indeed refer to the "fiends" of the previous sentence" some innocents will be killed by associates of the wolves but not the wolves themselves. I am probably making something out of nothing here but theoretically that could be a hint at some sort of werebear. The morning will bring clarification if there is a higher than normal death toll overnight.

Now for the actual player posts.

Boro, I don't suspect Kath for posting first - I was merely pointing out that it has happened. If I had read the posts sequentially rather than in a random skimming, I would have seen that , Shasta had already pointed out that this was a traditional prejudice. Kath is far too sophisticated a player for that one to be relevant. However, Kath, in general, may be my "sneaky player " (Fea I love you too ). But a higher priority is looking at those those hasty votes.

Sometimes people do have to vote quickly and on first day (noone has said they hate them yet! ) , a quick retractable vote may be in character or an attempt to provoke a reaction but a quick fixed vote hmm would be quite attention seeking for a wolf, so much so that it might be a blind.

.... to be continued .... I don't want to risk losing such a long post.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by [b

Boro[/b]]I think the risk is far too great. Not only will the wolves be able to manipulate who gets lynched (as they will know this 'plan') but it seems mostly random, so there is a minute chance to find a wolf and we have no idea how many gifted we have to help us, so there may be a greater chance that we whack a gifted (as Legate brings up).

Whaaaaa? If the wolves do manipulate who is lynched, that wolfish manipulation will be a clear trail to them tomorrow.

And as for lynching gifteds, I don't see why we would be more likely to do so by lynching a quiet player than a loud one.