WW XXXIII - Other Minds and Hands

[Volo]

Disturbing: Gil, Diamond, Shasta and Xyzzy haven't contributed yet, or so little that I couldn't notice it, in this order. Durelin is completely away... Bad. Everybody else seems to be around though.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

After looking through Boro's posts, and more or less ignoring the yesterDay's because he really seemed to be in bad timing and the posts create a self-contained "equating effect" (he explains himself, so the general feeling is neutral), the final result is more or less like that I said earlier. If he were an innocent, I am convinced, since last time I experienced my share of it, he'd act differently. I have one very strong image of Boromir the Innocent in my mind, and it is the image of a person who goes around throwing suspicions, then picks a person and goes after her until he/she ends lynched. Now he is acting differently. About what he said on Ang, me and SpM I spoke before. His suspicion against my voting-post, while on a "good" basis (meaning I think an innocent might eventually come to that suspicion), is in my point a little bit exaggerated, making too much of it. Which implies wolvery. Also, his earlier mentioning of Kath and Di seeming perfectly innocent does not look good to me. How he even came to it? Speaking of Kath, to me she looks also sort of suspicious, and I think to more people around here, but since Boro operates quite a lot with hunches (which I totally don't agree with), it might be that he "feels" Kath innocent in this way. But the statement "if you are wolves, congrats" is a little too strong. The question is, if Kath is innocent and Boro were a wolf, why would he say this. Unless he plans to, let's say, kill her toNight, and thus get the suspicion off him.
EDIT: I can't make anything of it, but if anyone's interested, or for later thinking of it. This is what Kath says about Boro:

Originally Posted by Kath

Boro - voted for himself, apparently to try and get people talking, but when found that didn't work he retracted his vote and voted for Ang 'for no real reason'. Now, having exonerated Di for doing the same thing I can hardly jump on Boro for it either. However, it feels more forced than Di's vote did. I know that's terrible reasoning, but how can you explain a feeling?

SpM is quite a long story to read, but I might very well end voting for him toDay. His speeches, whatever they are, are many times too much "general", not taking it into finalizing, leaving some "vacuum" behind them, which I believe an innocent would fill - either to find that filling it solves the matter to good, or to bad. On the contrary, there are things looking more innocent, like his enduring case against me. If he were a wolf and I ended lynched, this could seem bad to him. Or would it? He might play an innocent who focused too much on one subject who turned out innocent (he even earlier mentioned this here, like that it sometimes happens to him - it was in connection with me). In this case, this could be an excuse for his action, and so the Wolf goes unnoticed.

EDIT: x-ed since my last post

[Thinlómien]

My time toDay is very limited.

Why is everyone speculating about lovers? I mean, of course we can't rule out the possibility, but why is half of the village assuming there is a lover couple. Makes me wonder if some furry people or cobblers are trying to cause confusion...

All in all, we shouldn't speculate too much about the roles - actually I can hardly believe how well we've avoided it. (Until this post of mine... ) As long as we have no role-clues from the narrations, there is little sense in speculating them.

Originally Posted by Mac

But Volo, does anything change for you once somebody tries to kill you? Will you still be allowed to vote, for example.

While this is a good question and it's important to know these things, this question of Mac's just doesn't sit right with me... I mean, he sounds all too much like a wolfie trying to fish out (=get) information.

I agree Mith was probably killed because of most people considering her innocent and for leaving no tracks and I think she might have been a nice kill for the wolvsies also because she is (well, like quite many of us here...) a good player and thus a threat to the baddies if she's innocent.

I'd love to see Durelin around. Where is she? Other than this ww-game, she has an RPG soon to start here in BD so I think she must have had some RL issues if she's not been online...

Volo, I don't think Aganzir is any different from her last game - though that does not prove her innocent, certainly not.

I can see why you're all after Legate, but I have to disagree and consider him innocent-ish. While he certainly has done suspicious-ish things, his almost furious defense of himself and his manner speak for his innocence. I mean, this wizard-creature doesn't resemble the wolf-Legates I've seen. Wolf-Legate is - according to my experiences - far more careful and avoids argument with other villagers. That image doesn't quite fit the current Legate. I think he tends to be more rash when innocent, which would speak for his innocence in this game. I doubt I will vote him toDay at least.

I will vote very soon and to be honest I have no clue who I will vote. Everybody (except the non-contributors) has made the impression of being more on the innocent side (see, I'm probably easily fooled... ). My only yesterday's suspect is dead and innocent. (Well, except Legate who I suspected a little and who I suspect less and less when I see more posts of his.) I will probably vote either some non-contributor who looks active enough to stay alive or then Mac (for his comment and the tone of his recent posts has been a little worrying)...

[Thinlómien]

++xyzzy

It seems like he will make a few, non-contributing posts per day and stay alive and just be dead weight. And if he's a wolf, it's a disaster since we'll never be able to catch him by normal means.

I think we should eliminate him but I have the bad feeling my campaign won't get much support. *sigh* Nevertheless, voting xyzzy seems the best option for me toDay.

I don't want to Mac because my reasons to suspect him are quite flimsy. If I had more time to go through his posts, I could vote him if I found him suspicious. But it would be stupid to vote a helpful and intelligent player on such feeble grounds.

But now I have to go. Bye.

[Volo]

I'll go off to mend my bike (or try mending my bike, like I have been "trying" for the last six... hmm... more, months) soon.


Before that a very quick word about Kath, Brinniel and Rune.

Kath seems genuine. A bit exaggerated opinions in her second post, but otherwise looks innocent.

Brinniel gives me the feel of a confused innocent, maybe even so confused that she could be a wolf. I mean acting confusion. Still, doesn't strike too alarming, though if I had to give four names of possible wolves, she'd probably be in the list.

Rune feels like himself. Though he hasn't said much relevant stuff yet. He might be a Rune-wolf, but I think that we should wait a few days before voting him.


Aargh. I've been thinking and rethinking.

++Boromir

, like I said before, something looks very wrong here. I decided that Aganzir should live, the way she plays is wolfish, but at the same very innocentish, actually looks very much like my own style when I'm innocent.

I'll go now, and not give any certain time of returning, but I'm going to think over this again.


EDIT: Xd with Lommy. Great to see you even as for such a little hop. Your vote isn't a good one, grudges? But I'll agree about what you said there in the first post.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Lommy

I can see why you're all after Legate, but I have to disagree and consider him innocent-ish. While he certainly has done suspicious-ish things, his almost furious defense of himself and his manner speak for his innocence. I mean, this wizard-creature doesn't resemble the wolf-Legates I've seen. Wolf-Legate is - according to my experiences - far more careful and avoids argument with other villagers. That image doesn't quite fit the current Legate.

You know what? I love you!

Now to the grave issues at hand. About Aganzir, I think that "widowhood" thing is not signifying anything, but this could:

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Of course, she was the first to vote for Legate etc., but I can make of that out just as much as I can of too many other things, which is nothing.

It's the type of ambivalent, half-ended sentence the Wolves do. "You know, maybe she was killed by Legate because he wanted to get rid of her... but I didn't say this!"
I originally wanted to wait until Aganzir herself makes some other things that could classify her as wolf, but since it was already brought up, I think her a very likely candidate.
Concerning the "he-she" thing, while I knew from somewhere before in my unconscious mind Aganzir is she, I didn't think about it now and considering Ang not knowing her before, the "he" mistake does not seem as an attempt of a trick, and if it were, not a good base for suspicion, because it really can be a mistake. (it's probably the name and the avatar, both. Oh! And I know what else - there is Shasta, who is actually he, which is the counter to Aganzir.) But in general: nothing basing on this, I think that's quite feeble as an evidence.
Personally I don't see anything wrong on posting the widowhood joke and would never have thought of it being a sign of wolvery. The more alarming now seems to me Aganzir's statement "were I a wolf, I'd never post it". Why? And she's saying it after she was suspected on basis of it. This seems fishy. However, seeing that Volo drops his suspicion, I don't know if digging in that matter has any perspective of being important any more now.

I'll be here yet surely, but I'm going to take a little "break" (going to purchase a new bike, seeing what Volo said here, it's not about just me)... so, see ya later. Later? Later?!? Yes, when you also have the Keys of Barad-dûr itself, I suppose?! And the crowns of seven kings, and the rods of the Five Wizards... *walks off, muttering*

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

My talking about irrelevant stuff is mostly because I am trying to hide the fact that I do not have any good suspicions, I am constantly hoping that the next time I read through some post that something will jump into mind.

Now onto more irrelevant stuff: Dubble Lynchings

Dubble lyncings are not only for the benifit of wolves! That is how it has been previously because villagers have not had a clue about what they where doing at the time of the dubble lynchings. Technicaly it must mean there is a greater chance getting a wolf, of course it also could be devistating if one lynches purely innocents.

I am just saying that dubble lynching is a tool, a very dangerous tool and it should not be used lightly. There is of course no sense in having a random dubble lynch based on confusion, but I can imagine situations where it might be a risk worth taking.

btw the reason for this post is that I find it wrong when things are branded as pure evil, unless it is the wolves of course.

I just found out that works start earlier today which means I will have to vote very soon. . .

[Anguirel]

Gather round, my friends. I have a New Theory.

Vote analyses can be helpful resourses, but on this occasion I think more helpful still is who people thought about voting for before Volo's revelation, which completely changed the landscape.

As well as myself, Sixth, and Saruman, (in the event the main candidates), before Tollers revealed himself Volo and Macalaure were seriously considered.

Of these two, evidently the more intriguing case is Volo, because if we believe his claim (and I do, you couldn't make up a role like that...) he's a proven innocent.

Prominent in laying into Volo were myself, Kath, Brinniel and Rune.

I was probably the most vehement, and cast the first stone. However, at least that means I can't be accused of piggy-backing...

Kath followed with a fairly condemnatory description of Volo as a bit vague and contentless. However, she did not vote for him (instead opting for Rune) and we cross-posted, so this opinion was not influenced by my diatribe. Nothing that suspicious here.

Sauce (I've just noticed) felt Volo's revenge vote against me had "pinged his radar somewhat". This is a bit more suspect, especially as Sauce was proceeding with a good deal of caution, avoiding "accusations of palliness" in a disclaimer. But the motive was sensible.

Rune now leapt in, stuck in his own dagger and voted for Volo. This is getting pretty suspicious by now; he knew this vote might well have heavyweight backing with Sauce's vote apparently pending.

And then Brinniel says, fairly out of the blue,

"Suddenly, Volo has been moved to the top of my suspect list."

Suddenly is generally a bad sign as words go. I think either Rune or Brinniel is guilty, and personally I favour Brinniel because she is escaping suspicion so effectively - Legate and Boro for instance have both said they think she's convincingly innocent.

So my first vote, at least, goes to ++BRINNIEL, and if you see where it's coming from, I beg you to join this slightly left-of-field case...

If further evidence is desired, look at Brinn's slightly panicky inquisitiveness about the effects of Volo's role.

[Aganzir]

This is probably waste of time, as we should have no reason to expect Volo is lying, but I still feel somehow uncomfortable about him. I started analysing him a couple of hours ago but couldn't post this earlier as Lommy decided to pop over.

Day 1
#5: Pure ic.
#49: Trusts Mith. Lommy's vote speaks well for her. Legate and Aganzir innocentish. More afraid of Mac and Ang.
#57: Agrees with Legate that Ang's half-in-half-out-character talking is annoying, and suggests Ang to quit it. Votes for Anguirel, but says he's probably innocent.
#60: Asks also Legate to play either in-character or out-character. Finds Kath interesting.
#63: Asks Rune not to twist his words. Reveals his role, because he's "not in a mood now and not too optimistic for keeping the role a secret".
#67: Pretty sure that Mac or Ang are wolves. Feels that Mac is going to get closer to Ang. Says it's no use to go analysing the silent ones. Says doesn't really want to lynch Ang, but he's far from innocentish.
#77: Tells more about his role. Says he was frustrated with Ang, but now logic tells he's innocent.
#82: Tells Brinniel he has already revealed his role.
#84: Asks if Sixth is worth lynching. Can see why he's suspicious, though.
#88: Thinks Kath is a wolf. "She analysed too little content with too much text."
#96: Retracts his vote for Anguirel and votes for Sixth instead. Suspects both of them more than Legate, but votes for Sixth as he'll be more probably lynched.
#110: Voting records that far.

Day 2
#119: Voting records from the previous Day. Thinks Spm and Lommy are in the worst place.
#122: Says Boromir has been acting quite un-Boromirish. Sees a connection between Boro and Ang, and says he will rather vote Boromir than Ang.
#129: Mac is innocent or a careful wolf, but his carefulness is a bit too careful for a wolf. Brinniel's vote is weird and she's being eccentric, but doesn't want to vote for her.
#131: Says he thought Mith was the Seer.
#134: Finds Spm interesting. Asks Legate to clarify some of his earlier statements. Doesn't know what to think about Legate.
#135: Finds my post (#132) newbie-wolvish.
#136: Asks Ang's opinion of Boro and Boro's opinion of everything.
#158: Analyses toDay's talk about me. I'm speaking nonsense and defending myself. Wonders where has the calmness of the previous game gone, and says he'll vote for me if nothing unexpected happens. Tells his post #135 was "in a joking manner". (Well, I can tell you I didn't see that you were joking, except for the in-characterness, the point of which I thought I understood as I had been complaining to you some minutes earlier that it's a shame we don't use our characters more.)
#161: Thinks it's bad that Gil, Diamond, Shasta and Xyzzy haven't been contributing.
#165: Kath looks innocent. Brinniel is confused innocent, or maybe a wolf acting confused. Rune might be a wolf, but we shouldn't vote him off for a few Days. Votes for Boromir. I'm both wolvish and innocentish but I'm playing a little like himself, when innocent.

When reading through the Day 1, Volo seemed quite wolvish sometimes. In my opinion the most suspicious thing he did was revealing his role, especially as I can't see the point of his role. He revealed it after receiving only two votes, and he wouldn't probably have been killed anyway, seeing how much more Sixth and Ang were gaining suspicion.
After a while of general confusion he told more about his role. A nice way for a wolf to avoid suspicion, to create a new role for himself.
He was also a little flip-floppy with his opinion of Ang. I mean, Ang didn't say that much between Volo's posts #67 & #77, and eventhough some who had played earlier with him said he's always like that, the sudden change of Volo's opinion is worth noticing.

The Day 2 makes me feel more like that he's innocent. He's contributing, he has some good points. The most important thing is that I find his tone somewhat different from the previous Day. He keeps suspecting different people, but with better grounds, I think (though it's not surprise as by now we have much more material than yesterDay we can use).
But the thing I don't understand is why he kept throwing suspicion against me, as I think he really should have known better than expecting me to fall for those newbie-wolf mistakes. I understand why others found them suspicious, but it was Volo who pointed them out, and he was also the one who continued accusing me of them.
Either I have overestimated him, he has underestimated me or then there's somehow good chances of him being a wolf.

I thought it would be possible that someone started accusing me of that post of mine, but I would never had expected this much suspicion. I probably should have kept silent after you, Volo, seized on my words, since I thought answering to you might seem overreactive self-defence (as it indeed seems to have done).

As for the calmness, I don't remember I was suspected even this much in my previous game, which you happened to mod. I suppose mod's perspective must be quite different from player's. In the last game you knew with 100 % certainty that I was innocent, and could look at my behaviour from a different angle than now, when all you do is looking for suspicious signs on other players.

Originally Posted by Legate

The more alarming now seems to me Aganzir's statement "were I a wolf, I'd never post it". Why?

I wouldn't have wanted to gain suspicion by saying it. I could have left it unsaid and that wouldn't have changed anything in my post. If I had been deliberately avoiding suspicion, it would have been better not to say it, ie not to say something that is usually considered a newbie-wolf mistake, and I know it as well as you do.

edit: xed with Rune & Ang

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Mac

I find it a tiny bit strange that Boro is suspicious because of Legate's double lynch comments, while he finds Brinniel, who made similar comments, innocent. I mean, I share his overall judgement of the two, but still it's a little bit weird. Where do you see the difference, Boro? You have not told.

This makes me think. . .I know it is shocking!

It was interesting how Legate found Brinniel's comments suspiciouse when he made something very similar, of course it was connected with her vote and he did retract the suspicion when she had explained her self. OK maybe this was not so interesting after all.

Now we are talking about Brinniel and we were!

There is something about her that does not sit right, she seems somewhat uneasy, kind of nervouse. Maybe she always plays like this, but gets killed to fast for me to notice, but I think she seems like she might be afraid to get killed. This could be due to her being killed so early in previouse games or maybe she is not and ordo.

Moving on to Gil-Galad

He might be busy at the moment, but there has been indications that he is not going to play like last game. This could mean that he is an ordo once again or that he is a cunning wolf. I still need to make my mind up.

Please someone say something that convinces me to vote for you as I really have to leave soon.

[Aganzir]

Anguirel, I understand your way of thinking, but I'm afraid I can't totally agree with you. To me it's not clear that Volo is innocent. It's unlikely he would have made up the role, but it's not certain that he hasn't done just that. He would probably find it funny.
It's a role that could be very easily created because it just is, without any significant purpose or meaning, and he doesn't have to answer questions like "who did you dream of?" or "who did you protect?".

I also understand why Brinniel suspected Volo, and I don't think that's a reason to vote for her. Of course she might be a wolf who startled when Volo told about his role, but in my opinion she looks more like a confused innocent. Or then a wolf acting confused innocent - I don't think a wolf would be the first one to ask about the role (if I remember correctly at least Spm and Legate had asked about it before Brinniel), but even if she had waited for someone other to ask more about it, she eventually had to do it herself (as Volo didn't seem to answer because she hadn't managed to see his edit on the post where he told about the role).

I'll go and eat something. Will be back in an hour, as I probably should also do my homework and I rather do it before the deadline starts drawing near.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I have to vote now and in my search for a candidate I went back and looked at my suspects from yesterday: Volo and Mac.

Volo I belive although I still think he acted very weird yesterday and that leaves Mac to compete with Brinniel and Gil.

Of these Mac is the one I am most comfortable voting for today, Gil I will give a chance to prove him self and Brinniel I need to watch for a bit.

My case against him might not be the best you have ever seen, but here goes.

1. He has his whole in-charachter rant, which have been the subject of much debate.

2. He pretty much focuses his suspicions and his post contents on Legate, leaving almost no trace if he is a wolf and is lynched.

3. At first his main thing case again Legat was that he did not agree with his suspicion of Ang, but I suppose this is quite normal for day 1.

4. In post 78 he all of the sudden feels beter about Legate, but tells not why.

yeah that is basicly what makes me uneasy about him, some of the points have more merit than others, but I thought I would put it all there. (nr3 is very shaky, but it made me wonder in the situation)

++Macalaure

(We have 10 min breakes every hour at work and there is computers, but they are slow. Anyways I will try to get on and check up on what is happening , so if anything drastic happens I might be able to change my vote)

Edit: Cross posted with Aganzir

[Anguirel]

If Volo did invent his "Spirit of Tolkien" role then I'm seriously impressed.

But a look at the first narration should convince you that it was planned as part of the game from the start. We are "trusting in the spirit of Professor Tolkien to protect us", apparently.

It is of course possible that, taking his lead from that hint, Volo made up a fitting role to save his lupine skin. But that's the kind of trick I've only known myself, the phantom and conceivably Fea to stoop to!

I think it's far more likely that he is a proven innocent and far more helpful to regard him as such - we do need all the information we can get. So Volo's role is essentially the only thing I'm clinging onto solidly at present...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Rune's two last posts have really scared me. The first one about "dubble lynchings" is quite scary in itself: of course the double-lynch can be used even for good, to get two wolves, but the chance is so small - and even then, how would you arrange the villagers to vote all (even the wolves) the way that two wolves get lynched? In other words, what sort of a nonsense is that?
If we skip total luck where two wolves are tied for voting and no one of their comrades retracts a vote (probably explained by saying "oh, double-kill is too dangerous, what if one is innocent?") to save them; the only possible situation where I can imagine this working, would be if for example the Seer revealed two Wolves and said it to the whole village, and the village somehow (and I would like to see, how) divided the votes between themselves so that the votes are tied in the end. But even in that case, one of the Wolves could just vote for himself to save his comrade, to prolongate the period for one more day. So this, in my opinion, cannot work.
I wouldn't believe such an experienced player could say such a nonsense, so I'm not sure what to make of your statement, Rune. Even a wolf would not be so stupid to say this, I believe. So unless you are a Cobbler..?

However, that's not all that raises alarm. Rune's words about Brinniel:

Originally Posted by Rune

There is something about her that does not sit right, she seems somewhat uneasy, kind of nervouse. Maybe she always plays like this, but gets killed to fast for me to notice, but I think she seems like she might be afraid to get killed. This could be due to her being killed so early in previouse games or maybe she is not and ordo.

This looks almost like checking if Brinniel is a Gifted, and maybe even a subtle way of an attempt to throw Brinniel (if she were a Gifted indeed) into a state of panic and in case situation started to move just a little bit in a bad way for her, causing her coming in front of us saying "No, I am this and this, please leave me alone". However, maybe if Rune indeed were a wolf and wanted to bring Brinn forth, he'd also vote for her to enlarge the pressure.

Concerning Brinniel, while I'm keeping an eye on her, I don't want to make a case against her, at least not now. First reason is, there is more than enough other people against whom to make a case. Second, I don't want to trigger anything that could cause her to be for the third time killed pre-maturely with my assistence, at least not until I am more sure that she is a Wolf. And as I said, there are more people of whom I am more sure.

And Ang's last post I completely agree with. It's shown in the narrations, and I really don't believe Volo would make up that role.

Now something to the business at hand. I have checked toDay's vote list, and apart from Shasta, who suddenly&unfortunately chose to vote for me, there are yet two other to vote for me. And these are Boro&SpM. I am fairly convinced at least one of them is a Wolf, and I am probably going to vote one of them. Anyone has any ideas about these two? Since Volo already voted for Boromir, I'll probably vote for him as well, also for the reason that the matter does not look much good for me, so I'd prefer him over SpM for whom there is no vote thus far.

The votes thus far:

Shasta: ++Legate (Legate-1)
SpM: ++Legate (Legate-2)
Boro: ++Legate (Legate-3)
Lommy: ++xyzzy (Legate-3; xyzzy-1)
Volo: ++Boro (Legate-3; xyzzy-1; Boro-1)
Anguirel: ++Brinniel (Legate-3; xyzzy-1; Boro-1; Brinniel-1)
Rune son of Bjarne: ++Macalaure (Legate-3; xyzzy-1; Boro-1; Brinniel-1; Mac-1)

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

And then Brinniel says, fairly out of the blue,

"Suddenly, Volo has been moved to the top of my suspect list."

Suddenly is generally a bad sign as words go. I think either Rune or Brinniel is guilty, and personally I favour Brinniel because she is escaping suspicion so effectively - Legate and Boro for instance have both said they think she's convincingly innocent.

Ang, I don't understand why you see my earlier suspicions of Volo strange. I stated my reasons quite clearly, and he gave a good reason to be suspected after his odd vote for you.

On the the subject of Volo's role:

It would be one thing if he claimed to be some traditional role, but seeing as the Reincarnation of Tolkien is rather unique, I feel I have little reason to doubt him. If you are indeed a wolf, Volo, props to you because you will have fooled just about everyone...

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

But a look at the first narration should convince you that it was planned as part of the game from the start. We are "trusting in the spirit of Professor Tolkien to protect us", apparently.

That's true. I had completely forgot the first narration when Volo revealed his role. But though it probably should, it doesn't make me feel much more comfortable about him.
I hope suspecting probably known innocents is not becoming typical for me, since in the last game I was pretty sure Nogrod was a wolf even though he had revealed himself to be the Hunter...

Originally Posted by Lommy

As long as we have no role-clues from the narrations, there is little sense in speculating them.

Actually, besides the Spirit of Tolkien thing there's one (might be more, though, but I found only this):

Originally Posted by Rikae, Night2

Two trailers were watched by unseen eyes that night; but for what purpose I cannot say.

I don't know if this "two" means the Ranger (or something alike) and the Wolves, or if there's some extra role who might want to watch a trailer.

[Kath]

My, my! I'd completely missed Volo's little declaration yesterDay! Well there's an eye-opener and no mistake. But what is the point of the role? Simply to aid the numbers of the innocents? Though now he's revealed that isn't going to help us much. While he was hidden the role was of some use, as had the wolves gone after him we would have been saved a death for one night. Now it's as useless as a revealed Hunter, except for the benefit of having a known innocent. In fact I don't get why he revealed at all. So what if you were about to be lynched? It didn't matter if you can't die! And it screwed up the voting record too because now nothing after that revelation was 'real' because it was all planned, and there's nothing to say that a wolf wasn't helping to lead the planning.

There was a comment Legate made yesterDay about Sixth that seemed odd to me as well while I think about it.

I believe him innocent, because he didn't do anything that could be wolfish apart of that he started bandwaggon for Ang.

You can't really start a bandwagon. I mean, there was some ill-feeling toward Ang yesterDay but unless you have, say, 3 other people all saying that they will vote Ang in their next post and then you vote making the first vote can't really be considered starting the train.

Now on to toDay:

Shasta strikes me as particularly innocent. He's so ... bouncy! It may just be because we've seen so little of him of course, but I'm keeping him in the innocent pile toDay.

Legate is giving me pause for thought. 'I told you Sixth was innocent' seems to be a common refrain of his, and what better a cover? Had Sixth been a wolf Legate's constant defending of him would have made us think that no wolf would fight that strongly to save a fellow baddie, and had he been innocent (which of course he was) he can claim to be pure as the snow since he didn't vote for him. (Sorry if that's confusing, I know there are far too many he's and him's.)

There seems to be some focus on Aganzir, though I'm not entirely sure why. The widowhood quip was actually pretty funny, and didn't seem particularly suspicious to me. He has also been coming up with some very good points, theories and ideas, so I'd like to keep him around. He's looking innocent to me so far. The 'were I a wolf' bit doesn't always mean the poster is a wolf either. I think Volo might be clutching at straws a bit there.

Gil I'm happy with at the moment. His response to, I think Rune (?) saying that he had gone back to his usual self was snappy and offended, exactly the way Gil usually reacts.

Rune still has my back up. His posts toDay have been just as empty of any susbtance and yesterDays. The one about the double-lynching was particularly useless, as it was something everyone knows, just as what he said about Gil was obvious.

btw the reason for this post is that I find it wrong when things are branded as pure evil, unless it is the wolves of course.

He says. Ok, so why not focus on, say, who the wolves could be? No point in worrying about double lynchings until we're sure enough of the guilt of two people that we would want to double lynch them. Oh, and yesterDay he wouldn't change his vote from Volo even after he revealed. 'It wouldn't change anything' he said, when this was blatantly not true since everyone else around was happily switching votes and causing major changes in the lynch. And he was hanging around right up til the end so he would have realised this before the lynch was finalised.

He also seems to be jumping on what other people say. A couple of people start talking about Brinniel and suddenly he thinks she's the most suspicious thing ever? Plus, having previously said that he isn't going to focus on Gil anymore he brings up that point about Gil posting differently again. Finally, when he votes his suspicions of Gil and Brinniel take a backseat to Mac, who hadn't yet been mentioned toDay.

I actually wonder whether Rune and Legate could be in league. Both argue against the other but neither finds the other suspicious enough to vote for. I certainly think one is a wolf, and right now I think Rune the most suspicious.

I have to go to a meeting in a bit and won't be here for the deadline so I'm going to cut this short. I know I haven't looked at most of the people here, just the ones that caught my attention as I read through, I will try to get everyone looked at tomorrow. But for now:

++RUNE

I will be around for another 10 minutes or so though so if anyone has questions in my direction ask 'em fast!

[Kath]

Oops, sorry Aganzir. I meant she!

[Anguirel]

Incidentally, I've just thought of a devious exploitative strategy.

In an emergency - such as lack of information and inspiration or a threatened gifted - we can deliberately lynch Tolkien to effectively keep the game in stasis. Of course, only to be used in a real crisis of confidence and when the nightly kill afterwards wouldn't destroy us.

I'm not sure about Aganzir (whom I of course now see is a beauteous lady, my deepest apologies). As a bumbler she rings completely true, but she has spent the day attempting to indict a clear innocent!

Kath, you're dead right about Tolkien's revelation but it's a case of spilt milk, alas. Your case against Rune is interesting and he is among my top suspects - I might retract to him in a pinch (though as so often, and so erroneously, in these situations I can't help wonder how he's become a wolf again!)

I notice I seem to be finding it hard to attack what you might call the Old Guard, Kath, Sauce and Boro particularly - they do seem innocent to me (Sauce a bit less so), but I shall try to extirpate the prejudice that familiarity breeds nonetheless.

I'm not sure about my brilliant Brinniel idea but as someone who distrusts brilliant ideas and adheres to Sod's Law, I fear that's only to be expected.

I don't think Legate is a wolf but mischievously, can't help admitting I wouldn't mind finding out. I won't strain myself too hard to prevent his lynching.

[Brinniel]

Okay, here comes my analysis on everyone:

Volo: While there may a small chance he could be lying, I am inclined to believe him, as I have stated in my last post.

Legate: Today he seems a bit calmer than before, and some of his recent posts have eased me a bit. And while I do find him to still be suspicious (for the reasons I've stated before), he does not look as bad as he did earlier.

Mac: He's one of those I have a very hard time reading. I think he could very easily go either way. I'm going to list him as unsure for now.

Boromir: He's another difficult one. His posts toDay give me more of an Innocentish vibe, but I could be very wrong here. I would like to leave him be for now.

Shasta: Hard to say since he hasn't been around much. His vote for Legate with no reasoning behind it is a bit odd, but that's very little to go on.

Durelin: Nothing to say here since she remains a no show. Looking at the time, I have my doubts she will show up, so it looks like this could end up as a mod-kill.

Anguirel: I think he might be one of the most difficult to figure out. It appears he was voted for yesterDay due mostly to his in-and-out-of-character style, which he doesn't seem to be doing toDay. I do, however, find his sudden jump on Rune and me rather odd.

Lommy: She has such a sweet nature about her, which always makes me want to mark her innocent, even when she is guilty, which I made the mistake of doing once before. Therefore, I have no idea about her.

Kath: She hasn't posted very much at all, and indeed I would like to hear more from her before the Day is over. The one thing I do find suspicious is her vote for Rune yesterDay. Was she trying to start a bandwagon against him? There wasn't much suspicion surrounding him at the time, so it's got me wondering..

Aganzir: Some thought here comment "were I a wolf" was suspicious, but it could also be the mistake of an innocent. There's nothing about her that raises alarms for me, though.

Rune: He can be a little overly-defensive for my taste, but maybe that's just his nature. His post about double-lynching does set me off. Double lynching is a risky business and I feel doubtful about ever doing it, and I especially think it would be a bad idea at this point of time.

Diamond: Another tough one to judge since we've hardly seen her around. I do hope she reappears before the deadline.

Gil-Galad: I don't like how he gets all defensive about his posting in post #140, and on that subject, I do miss the presence he gave in the most recent games. But since he's not posting much this time around, does that mean he's Innocent? I don't know...

xyzzy: He's only made one post, I think, throughout the entire game, so I can't really say much here...

Saucepan Man: I admit I haven't given much thought about him, mostly because I never know what to think about him. There's nothing I see highly strange here, but perhaps I should take a closer look. I would rather not vote for him toDay, though.

So, in conclusion:

Suspicious:
Legate
Anguirel
Rune
Kath

Unsure:
Mac
Boromir
Shasta
Durelin
Lommy
Diamond
Gil-Galad
xyzzy
SPM

Possibly Innocent:
Volo
Aganzir

Yeesh...that's a lot of unsures...

EDIT: X-ed with Kath and Ang

[Volo]

A lot of text in a short time. Though the deadline is closing. I feel like Legate shouldn't be lynched.

Kath and Lommy have jumped into my list of scary, but I haven't had the time to analyse them yet, so I won't state anything against them.

I think I'll stick with my vote for Sir Boromir the Denethor.

[Brinniel]

Okay Kath, I've read your post, and I agree with Ang - you're case against Rune is indeed an interesting one. Not to mention, I find it much more convincing than when you voted for him yesterDay. This last post does help decrease any suspicions I had for you.

I think I need to go back and take a closer look at Rune's posts...

[Volo]

Oh, and for any sake: Don't vote Xyzzy or Durelin as they'll die from modfire if the situation continues.

[Anguirel]

I thought I would mention that while I currently suspect Rune, I agree with him completely about double-lynching. In fact, a lot of players think that by rights a village with double-lynching cannot lose without a severe lack of skill, so powerful an advantage does it form. I wouldn't quite go that far, but its sheer devastating randomness can hurt wolves a lot; they're much more badly burnt by the sudden loss of a comrade than we are.

The chance of lynching two wolves is tiny and insignificant. But the chance of bagging one wolf by sheer fluke is doubled. I'm a bit of a gambler so I actually quite like to see a few double-lynchs - speeds up the action for a start...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

I'm a bit of a gambler so I actually quite like to see a few double-lynchs - speeds up the action for a start...

But from what it looks like now (six possible voting candidates), I have a bad feeling that if such a "gamble" occured, I'd be one of the objects. Which is a situation I'd certainly not like to experience.

Originally Posted by Volo

I feel like Legate shouldn't be lynched.

You are not alone Or, at least I hope you won't be alone...

Okay, I'm going to cast my vote. Is anyone else willing to vote for Boromir?

++Boro

[Macalaure]

suspicious: Rune

wary of: Legate, Aganzir

stumped: Shasta, Durelin, xyzzy, Lommy, Gil, Di

innocentish: Boro, SPM, Brinniel, Ang, Kath

innocent: Volo


Three of these need explanations, I guess.

Rune: What makes me wonder about him, additionally to the things others have already said, is that he takes up a point of mine to found his suspicion of Brinniel upon, but then he decides that I am more suspicious than she. You don't take up the points of your supposed baddies to detect other baddies unless you're making something up. Makes no sense.

Lommy: Her openly displayed lack of suspicions and her quasi-intended throwaway vote for xyzzy have me slightly wary.

Kath: I used to be wary of her, but her last long post gave me a very innocentish feel.

[Volo]

Shasta: ++Legate (Legate 1)
SPM: ++Legate (Legate 2)
Boro: ++Legate (Legate 3)
Lommy: ++Xyzzy (Legate 3, Xyzzy 1)
Volo: ++Boro (Legate 3, Xyzzy 1, Boro 1)
Anguirel: ++Brinniel (Legate 3, Xyzzy 1, Boro 1, Brinniel 1)
Rune: ++Mac (Legate 3, Xyzzy 1, Boro 1, Brinniel 1, Mac 1)
Kath: ++Rune (Legate 3, Xyzzy 1, Boro 1, Brinniel 1, Mac 1, Rune 1)
Legate: ++Boro (Legate 3, Xyzzy 1, Boro 2, Brinniel 1, Mac 1, Rune 1)

Please, no more votes to the sides.

[Aganzir]

I could vote for Boromir.

I'm afraid I have no idea who I really want to see dead, but even toDay nobody has caught my attention (except Volo, but even though I'm not too ready to consider him innocent, I wouldn't waste a vote on him). YesterDay I voted for Legate, but now he seems far too innocentish that I would do it. Of Rune I can't say anything, and I would rather vote for someone of who I at least have some kind of opinion.

edit: xed with Volo

[Macalaure]

++Rune Son of Bjarne

This vote is subject to be retracted if necessary.

[Aganzir]

++ Boro

I can retract this if something unexpected happens.

[Volo]

Rune: Just like in Monty Python: "And now, Gil-Galad". (If you don't know the joke, don't ask.)

Like he himself said, he hasn't had many suspicions. I actually see him pretty genuine. Though neither I believe that Mac is too wolfish.

Rune's vote looks rather bad. It's basicly a throw-out as Mac is pretty safe at the moment.

I'll look at the situation more carefully after toDay.


EDIT: Xd with Mac and Aganzir.

(Legate 3, Xyzzy 1, Boro 3, Brinniel 1, Mac 1, Rune 2)

[Brinniel]

Analysis of Rune:

Post #20: in character

Post #23: Mentions a zombie occupation is weird, but nothing really significant here.

Post #35: Gets defensive against Mac about in character posts.

Post #45: Defends his previous defensive post.

Post #62: Mentions he suspects Mac because of his attitude. Doesn't understand why Volo trusts Mith based on little substance, suspects and votes for Volo.

Post #91: Sees Volo's edit, mentions only other candidates is Mac, decides to not change his vote.

Post #104: Vote count.

Post #139: Notes Volo's role, Boromir's self-vote, Brinn's vote for Legate, and Gil going back to his old style.

Post #142: Defends himself against an upset Gil about Gil's posting style.

Post #167: Suggests that double-lynching could benefit the Innocents.

Post #170: Discusses suspicions about Brinn, says she's nervous. Unsure about Gil.

Post #172: Still unsure about Brinn and Gil. Goes after Mac because of his in-character rant and his focusing on Legate, votes for Mac

Sorry, that's a bit rushed, but the deadline is coming soon.

Anyways, I'm planning to either vote Legate, for old reasons I've stated before, or for Rune.

[Brinniel]

Hmm...I'm really stuck here...

I'm starting to feel more suspicious of Rune than Legate, but that would tie it.

But now, if it turns out as a three-way tie, only one would die, so we wouldn't have to worry about double-lynchings...

I'm not sure.

[Macalaure]

Uhm, in case you haven't noticed, we're about to double-lynch Legate and Boro. I don't think this is our best interest...

edit: x-ed with Brinniel's last two

[Volo]

I'll change my vote to Rune if I have to, though I'd rather not have to.

[Diamond18]

I'm here... sorry I'm so late, I ended up running pretty late this morning and only just got online half an hour ago. I've done a rather quick read-through but obviously my thoughts will have to wait till tomorrow. Right now it looks like a double lynch is in the works... I'd like to avoid that. And between Boro and Legate, I think Legate's been more active and helpful (not that I blame Boro as he seems to be in essentially the same boat as me) but I think the 'village' shouldn't be damned to a whole lot of us super busy people barely playing and the active people dying off.

So....

+ + Boro

[Aganzir]

There are still 5 to vote, if I'm correct.

I will rather change my vote than see a double-lynch, too.

edit: xed with Di, which means that 4 haven't voted yet.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Shasta: ++Legate (Legate-1)
SpM: ++Legate (Legate-2)
Boro: ++Legate (Legate-3)
Lommy: ++xyzzy (Legate-3; xyzzy-1)
Volo: ++Boro (Legate-3; xyzzy-1; Boro-1)
Anguirel: ++Brinniel (Legate-3; xyzzy-1; Boro-1; Brinniel-1)
Rune son of Bjarne: ++Macalaure (Legate-3; xyzzy-1; Boro-1; Brinniel-1; Mac-1)
Kath: ++Rune (Legate-3; xyzzy-1; Boro-1; Brinniel-1; Mac-1; Rune-1)
Legate of Amon Lanc: ++Boro (Legate-3; Boro-2; xyzzy-1; Brinniel-1; Mac-1; Rune-1)
Macalaure: ++Rune (Legate-3; Boro-2; Rune-2; xyzzy-1; Brinniel-1; Mac-1)
Aganzir: ++Boro (Legate-3; Boro-3; Rune-2; xyzzy-1; Brinniel-1; Mac-1)
Di: ++Boro (Boro-4; Legate-3; Rune-2; xyzzy-1; Brinniel-1; Mac-1)

I'd like to note, if I'm correct, if we have three people to lynch, it's flip a coin.

EDIT: x-ed with Di. Oh, bless you, bless you! I'm going to give you a... Palantír, I have nothing better.

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Uhm, in case you haven't noticed, we're about to double-lynch Legate and Boro. I don't think this is our best interest...

I've fixed that, I think?

[Macalaure]

I don't want Boro to be killed, but I really don't want to cause a double-lynch.

Anybody else willing to retract to Legate?