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03-06-2007, 06:57 PM | #1 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Sam and the Ring
When Sam first puts on the Ring as he hears the Orcs coming after leaving Frodo's presumably dead body-
Wouldn't Sauron know the Ring was being used, and so close to him? Why didn't minions upon minions come onto the area in which Sam used the Ring? I don't truly understand how it is only before Cirith Ungol he realizes he can't use the Ring because the Dark Lord would see him.
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"Loud and clear it sounds in the valleys of the hills...and then let all the foes of Gondor flee!" -Boromir, The Fellowship of the Ring |
03-06-2007, 08:40 PM | #2 |
Maundering Mage
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Texas
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I believe he wasn't in Mordor yet and that he was indeed close to finding him but Sam removed it just in time. Had he crossed the border into Mordor Sam would have been lost and Sauron would have known him.
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“I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.” |
03-07-2007, 01:57 AM | #3 | |
Eagle of the Star
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Sauron apparently felt the ring, but was hindered in identifiying it due to the shadows he has put around as a defence
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03-07-2007, 02:03 AM | #4 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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I think Sauron wasn't too bright. If he couldn't see through the clouds around Barad-Dur and Mordor, how'd he see anything?
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03-07-2007, 03:50 AM | #5 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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What Sam felt, through the Ring, was Sauron's power constantly watching over Mordor. Sauron's mind was not concentrated on Cirith Ungol in particular. The vague reports of a spy in that area would not have concerned him. What could a spy learn? That a large army had left Minas Morgal? Gondor would know that soon enough anyway. That an even bigger army was encamped around Gogoroth? That knowledge getting out could only be to Sauron's advantage. Sauron's greatest fear was that Aragorn, who had shown himself in the Orthanc Stone, had the Ring. He wasn't looking for it on his own borders. Had Sam tried to use the Ring, Sauron might have known it, but Sam didn't attempt to use the Ring's power. He didn't try to dominate the will of others, the Ring's real power. He just took advantage of accidental by-products of the ring's power: invisibility and sharpened awareness. . |
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03-07-2007, 04:18 AM | #6 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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03-07-2007, 07:28 AM | #7 | |||
Eagle of the Star
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03-07-2007, 04:30 PM | #8 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Thanks guys, good answers. So pretty much we gather that Sauron had little knowledge of where his Ring lay, until Aragorn revealed himself through the Palantir, which made Sauron believe it was in Aragorn's possession. I guess after all the years seperated from it, Sauron really didn't have much "mental" power to "feel out" the Ring and its presence, even when it is right on his borders.
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"Loud and clear it sounds in the valleys of the hills...and then let all the foes of Gondor flee!" -Boromir, The Fellowship of the Ring |
03-07-2007, 04:35 PM | #9 | ||
Eagle of the Star
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"May the wicked become good. May the good obtain peace. May the peaceful be freed from bonds. May the freed set others free." |
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03-07-2007, 06:21 PM | #10 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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03-07-2007, 09:20 PM | #11 |
Wight
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The question is whether a line of sight is required for Sauron to see or sense the Ring. I suspect it has more to do with the particular relationship between the bearer of the Ring and the Ring itself. So, for example, Sauron knew instantly when Frodo put the Ring on in Mount Doom, but then Frodo basically challenged Sauron directly at this point. The same question comes up with Gollum, who carried the Ring for 500 years in the caverns of the Misty Mountains and was never sensed by Sauron.
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03-07-2007, 10:23 PM | #12 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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The question about Gollum is certaintly a good one...how do we explain that? Was it because Sauron's power had not retained the strength as it had when Frodo carried it? I'd assume this is so... And about the relationships, do you think maybe Sam, in just getting the Ring with no intention to claim it, was better able to avoid Sauron's gaze rather than Frodo at Amon Hen and (obviously) in Mt. Doom?
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"Loud and clear it sounds in the valleys of the hills...and then let all the foes of Gondor flee!" -Boromir, The Fellowship of the Ring |
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03-08-2007, 02:35 AM | #13 | |
Eagle of the Star
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"May the wicked become good. May the good obtain peace. May the peaceful be freed from bonds. May the freed set others free." |
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03-08-2007, 11:01 AM | #14 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Jun 2003
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It may be interesting to note that the nature of Amon Hen may have amplified the effect when Frodo put on the Ring. The Seat of Seeing allowed people to see the surrounding lands as if through a telescope and may have accidently 'amplified' the 'I am here' beacon the Ringbearer would have on Sauron. This would make sense since Sauron detected neither Gollum during his many long years under the Misty Mountains, nor Bilbo during his journey through Mirkwood, in particularly during his battle with the spiders during which Bilbo used the Ring extensively while Sauron resided in Dol Guldur.
EDIT: Ah, bugger. I see Raynor already made the same observation about Amon Hen. That's what you get when you hit 'Reply' too soon.
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'I am the Elder king: Melkor, first and mightiest of all the Valar, who was before the world, and made it. The shadow of my purpose lies upon Arda, and all that is in it bends slowly and surely to my will.' |
03-08-2007, 10:20 PM | #15 | |
Wight
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There seems to be a role for both of line of sight (Amon Hen) and for proximity, at least in the case of Nazgul (who are presumably weaker proxies of Sauron himself in this regard), since they were able to sense the presence of the Ring when Frodo put it on in The Prancing Pony at Bree.
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`These are indeed strange days,' he muttered. `Dreams and legends spring to life out of the grass.' |
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03-08-2007, 11:12 PM | #16 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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"Loud and clear it sounds in the valleys of the hills...and then let all the foes of Gondor flee!" -Boromir, The Fellowship of the Ring |
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03-08-2007, 11:32 PM | #17 | |||
Wight
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`These are indeed strange days,' he muttered. `Dreams and legends spring to life out of the grass.' |
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03-09-2007, 05:19 AM | #18 | |||
Eagle of the Star
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"May the wicked become good. May the good obtain peace. May the peaceful be freed from bonds. May the freed set others free." |
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