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Old 03-02-2007, 02:55 PM   #401
the guy who be short
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the guy who be short has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogrod
I also suspect that either tgwbs is a wolf or then our logics just don't meet... And see the involvement! When you have reason, you tend to be able to force some time to play unlike when you have no heightened interest.
Your logic also didn't agree with Rikae. And I'm involved because I want to analyse and come to conclusions, and because I don't trust the conclusions of anybody other than me (and you, but our idea of logic diverges, as you said).

I also think we have too many potential lynch targets. Six people is too much in a village of 15, 4 wolves.
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Old 03-02-2007, 02:55 PM   #402
Thinlómien
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Thinlómien is wading through the Dead Marshes.Thinlómien is wading through the Dead Marshes.Thinlómien is wading through the Dead Marshes.Thinlómien is wading through the Dead Marshes.Thinlómien is wading through the Dead Marshes.Thinlómien is wading through the Dead Marshes.
++Brinniel

because she of my suspects can be lynched.
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Old 03-02-2007, 02:55 PM   #403
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Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
7 votes of a possible 15? 5 minutes ot go ..this is rubbish..again
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Old 03-02-2007, 02:55 PM   #404
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Durelin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Durelin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
About the Rune situation:

1. He is not a last minute lynch. Brinniel voted for him a while ago, and I've suspected him for quite a while as well.

2. He's only got three votes, so actually I suppose not that many people really suspect him.

Does that change my vote? No.

Edit: Cross posted with four or five posts at least, not surprisingly...
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Old 03-02-2007, 02:56 PM   #405
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The Saucepan Man has been trapped in the Barrow!
White-Hand

Brinniel: ++Rune (Rune 1)
TGWBS: ++Brinniel (Rune 1, Brinniel 1)
Kitanna: ++Hookbill (Rune 1, Brinniel 1, Hookbill 1)
TGWBS: --Brinniel, ++Manwe (Rune 1, Hookbill 1, Manwe 1)
Kath: ++Rune (Rune 2, Hookbill 1, Manwe 1)
Rune: ++Brinniel (Rune 2, Hookbill 1, Manwe 1, Brinniel 1)
SpM: ++Lommy (Rune 2, Hookbill 1, Manwe 1, Brinniel 1, Lommy 1)
Mithalwen: ++Lalaith (Rune 2, Hookbill 1, Manwe 1, Brinniel 1, Lommy 1, Lalaith 1)
Durelin: ++Rune (Rune 3, Hookbill 1, Manwe 1, Brinniel 1, Lommy 1, Lalaith 1)
Lalaith: ++Brinniel (Rune 3, Hookbill 1, Manwe 1, Brinniel 2, Lommy 1, Lalaith 1)

Yet to vote: Gil-Galad, Hookbill, Legate, Manwe, Nogrod, Lommy

... I think.
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Old 03-02-2007, 02:57 PM   #406
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I still feel the tone of Brinniel to be that of an innocent.

That's only a feeling, though...
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Old 03-02-2007, 02:58 PM   #407
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Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.
Okay, I dare now to present my hardly-summarized list, but please, bear in mind that "advice is a dangerous gift...", so do not focus on it too much. Also, I made it "on walk", so some thoughts might be strange there.

Brinniel - She seems to me of a quite possibility of being a Faithful, trying to catch something and awake an accusation. I am inclined very much to believe her a Faithful, even the first point to that Hookbill discussion could still have been something.
Durelin - The suspicious on her is that she voted for Mänwe quite early. I do not place much on the arguments about her "Yaying", more people did this (Lommy, for example). Actually, these two seem to be quite alike to me, just Durelin looks little more "Chaaarge!", so I'd call her something between Lommy and Mänwe. But I cannot make any further conclusions right now.
Gil-Galad - In general, his behavior is like: "Comes, says nothing, leaves. Comes, says nothing, votes, leaves." From this, I would deduce three possibilities for him, each as much probable as the other: 1) a totally-out villager, 2) a totally-out Faithful, 3) a very clever Faithful, sitting in the shadows and waiting.
the guy who be short - Whatever he might seem, he brought forth some good thoughts. I don't agree with his&Lalaith's „shortlist“ concept, but otherwise he seems ok to me. Maybe a little bit... you know, narrow-viewed. But someone already pointed here that it is stupid to judge people just based on their different approach to solving problems.
Hookbill the Goomba - even though there are some suspecting him, I take his post about being scared of the game as honest. If it shows he is bluffing, I'm gonna hate him
Kath and Kitanna, at first, I was mistaking one for the another (as well as Mithalwen with Lalaith). Now Kitanna seemed odd to vote for Hookbill "out of thin air". Says he "flies under the radar“, while she is doing that herself. Also, looking back she seemed strange to vote Garin.
Kath is undecipherable for me this far, she seems just using too much strange-system of reasoning to me.
Lalaith - much as above, I don't catch much on her, but do not actually take what complains were against her now from some people.
Mänwe - well, seems he has calmed from Day 1. Possibly he: a) is a villager and he heeded the advice/is a Faithful and realized that it brings too much suspection to act like he did. The fact that he voted for Nogrod on Day 1 might be a move from him to accuse someone innocent (who, as we learned, was really innocent).
Mithalwen - seems strange last day, but I must reconsider everything yet.
Rune Son of Bjarne - I don't see any other serious effort from him but against me, Mänwe and Brinniel; and I believe a Faithful would try more.
The Saucepan Man - posting too much for me. All the accusations against him, although being many, are all based (as well as his entire profile in this game, I think) on the people's knowledge of him from the previous games, which, of course, I do not. Need some trace to identify him further.
Thinlómien - I didn't think she could be a Faithful at first, though, last she is behaving somehow different, more suspicious to me, I'd say perhaps "sneaky", in the last time.

Nothing too much to come upon now. And not much time, so

++Brinniel

EDIT: Cross-posted with everyone since... wait... since somewhere in the first part of page 10?!??!!
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Last edited by Legate of Amon Lanc; 03-02-2007 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 03-02-2007, 02:58 PM   #408
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Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
-- Lalaith

++ Brinniel
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Old 03-02-2007, 02:58 PM   #409
Kath
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Kath is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kath is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kath is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
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Rune isn't last minute to me. I've been writing that analysis for close to two hours.
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Old 03-02-2007, 02:58 PM   #410
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The Saucepan Man has been trapped in the Barrow!
White-Hand Correction ...

Brinniel: ++Rune (Rune 1)
TGWBS: ++Brinniel (Rune 1, Brinniel 1)
Kitanna: ++Hookbill (Rune 1, Brinniel 1, Hookbill 1)
TGWBS: --Brinniel, ++Manwe (Rune 1, Hookbill 1, Manwe 1)
Kath: ++Rune (Rune 2, Hookbill 1, Manwe 1)
Rune: ++Brinniel (Rune 2, Hookbill 1, Manwe 1, Brinniel 1)
SpM: ++Lommy (Rune 2, Hookbill 1, Manwe 1, Brinniel 1, Lommy 1)
Mithalwen: ++Lalaith (Rune 2, Hookbill 1, Manwe 1, Brinniel 1, Lommy 1, Lalaith 1)
Durelin: ++Rune (Rune 3, Hookbill 1, Manwe 1, Brinniel 1, Lommy 1, Lalaith 1)
Lalaith: ++Brinniel (Rune 3, Hookbill 1, Manwe 1, Brinniel 2, Lommy 1, Lalaith 1)
Lommy: ++Brinniel (Rune 3, Hookbill 1, Manwe 1, Brinniel 3, Lommy 1, Lalaith 1)

Yet to vote: Gil-Galad, Hookbill, Lalaith, Legate, Manwe, Nogrod

Although this will probably cross-post with a vote ro two too.
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Old 03-02-2007, 02:58 PM   #411
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Hookbill the Goomba is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Hookbill the Goomba is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Hookbill the Goomba is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Hookbill the Goomba is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Boots Dancein' boots

I managed to grab a computer for five minutes so I must be brief...

Given little time to consider my position I can only be hazy at best, but I have had a hunch since early on in the game that Manwe was untrustworthy. His lack of posting today may well be down to troubles, Lord knows I've had them, but I cannot say I really suspect anyone else to any great degree. Rune has had some odd things to say and the Saucepan Man has raised an eyebrow or two but nothing to suggest wolfhood.
So, with nothing better to do or say, I am going to have to cast my vote thus,

++ Manwe

Okay, I have to go...
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Old 03-02-2007, 02:58 PM   #412
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simultaeneous vote ... with legate
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Old 03-02-2007, 02:59 PM   #413
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The Saucepan Man has been trapped in the Barrow!
Hmm, I see Rune as far more suspicious than Brinniel ...

--THINLOMIEN
++RUNE
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Old 03-02-2007, 02:59 PM   #414
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I don't kind of like this but let's hope you're right...

++ Mänwe

I eat my words - checking on Lommy & Kath as well...
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Old 03-02-2007, 03:00 PM   #415
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Durelin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Durelin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Are we ever going to cease making this difficult for our poor Modalaure?
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Old 03-02-2007, 03:00 PM   #416
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Okay try this tyhen

-- Mänwe

++ Rune
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Old 03-02-2007, 03:00 PM   #417
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Macalaure is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Macalaure is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Macalaure is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.
DEADLINE

Brinniel has been lynched

She is an ordinary innocent.


Quote:
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Are we ever going to cease making this difficult for our poor Modalaure?
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Old 03-02-2007, 03:00 PM   #418
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Silly Sods
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Rune is my brother from another mother.

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Old 03-02-2007, 03:02 PM   #419
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Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
It is what happens when you opt for retractable votes as I know only too well *laments Noggin's unused death scene*
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Old 03-02-2007, 03:03 PM   #420
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Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne
Silly Sods

ooh that got past the censor!
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Old 03-02-2007, 04:12 PM   #421
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Macalaure is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Macalaure is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Macalaure is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.
Once more a gruesome morning had been followed by heated discussions all over the day. Many names have been associated with faithfulness and murder, and the whole island seemed to be at odds with itself. After a long time, it looked as if Rune, Son of Bjarne, would be the one to bite the blood-soaked dust of the Holy Mountain this time.

“I don’t see how you can assume me to be a Faithful!” Rune proclaimed loudly “I am innocent. I curse the name of Eru! No Faithful would ever do that.”

This was, of course, a good evidence and the Númenoreans agreed.

“But then we need somebody else now.” explained the guy who be short.

Brinniel is someone else!” Rune threw in quickly and pointed on her. Immediately the people started rhythmically shouting her name.

“What?” shrieked Brinniel, shocked to the bone “But you can't lynch me! I curse the name of Eru, too!”

“Yeah, right. I think I’ve heard that one before. Lynch her, I say!” answered Lalaith.

Too quick for Brinniel to fight back, Thinlómien and the Legate of Amon Lanc took her by the arms and pushed her to the ground. Ignoring her pleads, Mithalwen took an axe and without hesitation and without the grant of a last wish, she swung it down on her, and Brinniel’s head was seperated from her body.

“Rejoice, o Melkor” chanted Mithalwen “One of thy enemies has been dispatchéd!”, but her joy was untimely.

“Wait! See what lies there!” cried Nogrod.

It looked liek something else but her head has been cut off her neck. A small thing lay inside the puddle of blood. A little pendant it was.

And the pendant beared an image of the Lidless Eye. Brinniel was innocent.


Yes, there are fools even in Númenor.


*~*


The Dead:

Macalaure (mod) - brutally killed by Faithfuls in Night One
Garin (ordo) - decapitated with a scythe on Day One
Holbytlass (ordo) - committed suicide to revive Garin in Night Two
The Might (ordo) - committed suicide to help Holbytlass reviving Garin in Night Two
Roa_Aoife (Tar-Míriel / cobbler) - stabbed to death on Day Two
Rikae (High Priest of Annatar / seer) - killed and reformed into a ship by Faithfuls in Night Three
Glirdan (ordo) - another one who committed suicide to revive Garin
Brinniel (ordo) - executed on Day Three


The Living:

Durelin
Gil-Galad
the guy who be short
Hookbill the Goomba
Kath
Kitanna
Lalaith
Legate of Amon Lanc
Mänwe
Mithalwen
Nogrod
Rune Son of Bjarne
The Saucepan Man
Thinlómien
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Old 03-03-2007, 03:00 PM   #422
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Macalaure is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Macalaure is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Macalaure is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.
Dark were the dreams in Númenor that night, and filled with sorrow and doubt. Despite their grand efforts, they had been unable to get hold of even one of the frightful Faithfuls. Visions of death and horror crept into the minds of the sleeping and they knew that, for one of them, it would become more than just a dream. Once more the Faithfuls roamed the paths of the island and gathered around one of the huts. One of them knocked at the door.

Inside, Rune, Son of Bjarne, awoke from his direful dreams to find himself in horrors much worse.

“Go away!” he shouted in fear “There are others still in other huts. Go for them first!”

“But it is none of the others that we want, at least not now. We want you!”

And with these words the door was broken and the Faithfuls entered his room.

“Then so be it. But please make it quick, at least!” Rune said in despair and he sighed, knowing that his time had come, but the Faithfuls merely laughed in quiet.

“Do you know the song which was once sung by the people of this land?” one asked him.

“What are you talking about? I told you to make it quick!” answered Rune, baffled.

“Let me sing to you first:
The father made the World for Elves and Mortals, and he gave it...”

“Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know it. I think I’ve heard that one not so long ago. Please spare me with it!”

“Would you please cease to interrupt me? I’ll make myself short:
But my heart resteth not here for ever, for here is ending, and there will be an end and the Fading, when all is counted, and all numbered at last, but yet it will not be enough, not enough.”

“So what is that supposed to mean?” asked Rune while growing impatient.

“Oh, you will not know. But those who are going to find you, they will.”

And when these words were said, one Faithful unsheathed his sword and pierced Rune’s heart with it in one fast strike.


*~*


A bright morning it was in Westernesse and the sun seemed to grace the survivors in joy. Hope sprouted anew and hearts were lifted... until the Númenoreans became aware that once again one of them was missing. With evil forebodings they went to the hut of Rune. The door was broken and a chamber of horrors waited for them inside.

There lay the dead body of Rune, Son of Bjarne – all over the room. In an amazing exhibition of pedantry, his body had been dismembered. His bones and teeth lay aligned at the foot of the bed, all muscles and veins neatly around it. His blood and other humours had been bottled and the intestines adorned the walls. On the bed, lain upon the spread skin, was his brain, eyes and stabbed heart.

Nobody spoke a word and it took a while for one of them to notice the writing upon the broken door:

~Where every fibre’s torn apart, and every bone and blood-drop counted~


*~*


The Dead:

Macalaure (mod) - brutally killed by Faithfuls in Night One
Garin (ordo) - decapitated with a scythe on Day One
Holbytlass (ordo) - committed suicide to revive Garin in Night Two
The Might (ordo) - committed suicide to help Holbytlass reviving Garin in Night Two
Roa_Aoife (Tar-Míriel / cobbler) - stabbed to death on Day Two
Rikae (High Priest of Annatar / seer) - killed and reformed into a ship by Faithfuls in Night Three
Glirdan (ordo) - another one who committed suicide to revive Garin
Brinniel (ordo) - executed on Day Three
Rune Son of Bjarne (ordo) - disassembled by the Faithfuls in Night Four


The Living:

Durelin
Gil-Galad
the guy who be short
Hookbill the Goomba
Kath
Kitanna
Lalaith
Legate of Amon Lanc
Mänwe
Mithalwen
Nogrod
The Saucepan Man
Thinlómien

Last edited by Macalaure; 03-03-2007 at 03:38 PM.
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Old 03-03-2007, 04:02 PM   #423
Mänwe
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I would just like to point out to tgwbs in regards to the following;

Quote:
Looking back, Manwe seemed most insistent about believing Roa. As well as his very suspicious first post on it, he posts again at 227 and post 235, each time dedicating his post to the possibility of Rikae lying and coping with it.
Seeing as no-one else spotted the mistake yesterday. Those two posts you point out were me in fact me advocating strongly for the death of Roa. I was trying to get across to you that your reservations for voting Roa were incorrect, that killing Roa was the best option. Others have also stated that this was the best option.

I pointed out that there was a slight possibility that Rikae was lying. But to prove beyond all doubt whether she was or not then to do this you would have to kill Roa. You are grossly mistaken with what you say.

You seem intent on having me lynched.

I am curious as to why Hookbill has voted for me all the time, he has either voted for me of voiced his reservations about me. Is he jealous of my simple life as fisherman? Perhaps the voices he keeps hearing are getting to him..I can imagine the Faithful's continue to whisper in his ear, keep voting Manwe and others will eventually too. Though by the sounds of it this would be too unsubtle for the Faithful's.

Much like my style.

Which seems to be the focus of a number of villagers, that and my "newbie" brand that must be across my forehead the number of times its been bought up.

So I would like to ask you Hookbill, what are your reasons for voting me every time?

And I would also like to address the point that Lommy and Kath had defended me...oh by the way, Kath and Lommy, can you please stop sending me PM's about keeping calm.

And as for the point raised about me saying "Well I am here three..." it was most certainly not a typo, 100% intentional. I was meaning I was the third person to have posted. Lalaith had said, "I'm here too" I thought i'd be, well immature and say "three" as if Lal had said "I'm here two", crude I know....

Mhm, tgwbs, Hookbill, Lommy and Mith are my Faithful's.

Hookbill, because I don't like the fact his computer is down. That he would it seems has not taken the time to read the rest of the thread and keeps voting for me for the same spurious reason. That and he always needs to leave hurridly and may not have the time to come back.

tgwbs, Lommy and Mith because I think attention needs to be bought to these three more. You all say these three are suspicious but don't go so far as follow through with conviction and vote them. Well Lommy and tgwbs have been but votes have been retracted or 'reasoning' stated and therefore a vote not placed.

Edited with Mac; oh dear.
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Old 03-03-2007, 04:13 PM   #424
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To tell you the truth, Manwe, it was because I had little to go on, really. It was either you or the Saucepan Man last time and I just had an inkling more towards yourself than the Pan man. Call me crazy but... well... you'd be right.

Quote:
Hookbill, because I don't like the fact his computer is down.
I don't like that fact either.
But I have my new computer now, so everything is goods. *Dances*

I must come clean, though, on the first day I was just a tad lazy to really read through the post properly and assumed that things would iron out eventually. Losing my computer privileges for a few days got me reading them a bit more closely because I had to even though my time was scarce.

Brinniel's lynching really confused me. I read the arguments for her lynching and couldn't fathom it. I should take a look at those who voted Brinniel and look for suspicious... things...
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Old 03-03-2007, 04:54 PM   #425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manwe
Seeing as no-one else spotted the mistake yesterday. Those two posts [227, 235] you point out were me in fact me advocating strongly for the death of Roa. I was trying to get across to you that your reservations for voting Roa were incorrect, that killing Roa was the best option. Others have also stated that this was the best option.
You're mixing up the two issues. Though I regard voting for Roa as a Faithful thing to do, others find it sensible. This issue divides innocents, as Nogrod and Rikae showed.

You, however, thought it was sensible to kill Roa not because you wanted to be rid of the cobbler, but because you entertained the notion that she might not be the cobbler. This doubt of Rikae looks very faithful to me, especially the way you tried to make it look widespread in post 203 when it wasn't:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manwe, post203
I would also like to add, that Roa seems to have lost her 'cool' after the accusation. Seems rather desperate; now we have Rikae a possible Seer (possible in the eyes of Roa and a few others) revealing her as the cobbler.
Post 227 and 235 are devoted to doubting Rikae's claim to be the Seer:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manwe, post 227
People, what Rikae says is why I wrote my second 'plus' for killing Roa, if we kill Roa and she is innocent we know that Rikae is lying without doubt. Rikae telling us Roa is the Cobbler is a perfect chance to sort the mess out of, is she (Roa) a Cobbler, and is she (Rikae) the Seer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manwe, post 235
Killing Roa and finding out what she is would prove without doubt whether Rikae is the Seer or not. It's a win win situation in a way, for if Rikae is not a Seer than we can kill her, with a certain knowledge she is either the actual Cobbler or Faithful thats if she does not die tonight.
Please do not try to confuse the two issues of voting for Roa, and believing Roa's claim that Rikae was not the Seer. The two are very different, and your willingness to muddle them to make my accusations look unsound only further cement my belief in your guilt.

I also note the knee-jerk reaction.

Quote:
You seem intent on having me lynched.
All too true.




On a non-Manwe note, the Faithfuls' killing of Rune has confused me. Why kill the person who gained the second-most votes, who could most likely be lynched today?

One theory is that there are a few wolves among the Brinniel voters who feared suspicion and so killed Rune, thereby showing that most of the rest of the village had also voted for an innocent yesterday. This would incriminate Lalaith, Legate, Lommy and Mith. But the more I think about it, the less this kill makes sense.
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Old 03-03-2007, 05:10 PM   #426
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Oh Rune, you silly, silly sod!
(Sorry about my vote. I tried to save Brinniel who looked clearly innocent whilst of you I had no clear opinion... sadly I learned it only after your misguided comment that cost you your life.)

I feared this after your last post and that was the way it went. You declared yourself innocent at the last moment yesterDay with it and those dratted Faithfuls were witty enough to read it...

Now this makes me scan to the PanMan again. Maybe this is yet another Valarish plan of the Faithfuls, but I still think that if SPaMman is innocent - and as the Faithfuls knew I would be protected - why did they kill Rune instead of him?

I agree with you Hookbill in here. The lynching of Brinniel was folly. I tried to say that we leave the newbies in the first place and secondly tried to say that Brinniel looks too innocent to be lynched. I was late, I know, but darn this sharing of the computer when one has not time to actually delve in and live the last moments with full effort...

But we have a new Day and only a Cobbler has been catched and even that cost us our Seer's life. Let's now pull ourselves together!

It's 9/4 now.

We make a misjudgement toDay and it will be evidently 7/4 tomorrow (as I'm dead then). Another mistake makes it 5/4 the next Day... and thence a mistake by one of us nails it.

And even if this looks like we have a couple of Days to play the reality is a bit gloomier. With their votes the Faithfuls can steer the lynchings towards their ways as they know where to steer them unlike us. Even toDay only half of us innocents differing in our opinions will give the Faithfuls a free reign over the lynching of yet another innocent if they so wish. And why not in this phase of the game?

So we need to be very sharp now.

So Brinniel voters should be seen first. If there are people who seem to have not suspected her so much before and just voted for her late yesterDay. I would say that would shout a Faithful (jumping on a popular wagon with an innocent). The same goes with Rune-voters in a bit lesser degree.

Time to give the computer to Lommy (1.10 AM here), but I'll be back...
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Old 03-03-2007, 05:14 PM   #427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the guy who be short
On a non-Manwe note, the Faithfuls' killing of Rune has confused me. Why kill the person who gained the second-most votes, who could most likely be lynched today?

One theory is that there are a few wolves among the Brinniel voters who feared suspicion and so killed Rune, thereby showing that most of the rest of the village had also voted for an innocent yesterday. This would incriminate Lalaith, Legate, Lommy and Mith. But the more I think about it, the less this kill makes sense.
I'm still a bit at loss with your logic tgwbs. It's just hard to say whether we think this differently (and naturally thinking the other one does it really bad) or are you a Faithful who deliberately tries to make others think weirdly...
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Old 03-03-2007, 05:28 PM   #428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogrod
Now this makes me scan to the PanMan again. Maybe this is yet another Valarish plan of the Faithfuls, but I still think that if SPaMman is innocent - and as the Faithfuls knew I would be protected - why did they kill Rune instead of him?
Nogrod, could you elaborate? I did not catch you rpoint, I'm afrais. Why does "this" make you scan SPM again? And why do you wonder why Rune was killed instead of him? Because Sauce is a great benefit for the village when innocent?

And TGWBS, I think you manage to point out how weird/contradictory Mänwe is, but if I had to judge his behaviour (like one usually must while playing ww) I think he looks more like a confused innocent than like a faithful.
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Old 03-03-2007, 06:01 PM   #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Me, post386
What I notice here is the huge amount of no-ideas. Durelin, Hookbill, Kitanna, Lalaith, Legate. That's far too many people I haven't paid enough attention to.
Let's form some opinions.

There are now too many posts for me to consider going over everything each of these people has said. I shall try to lessen my load somewhat by starting from Day 2. Day 1 is always a stab in the dark anyway.

Durelin

Post 141 - yay-ranger post.

Post 150 - nothing

Post 156 - mildly suspicious of Hookbill, based on Roa's reasoning (pre-knowing she was a cobbler).

Post 216 - Yay Rikae post. Believes firmly in Rikae, which is a good sign I feel. Mild suspicion of Hookbill, Brinniel and Lommy.

Post 228 - Says Roa still has a vote, so she can still do harm. Again, firmly believes in Rikae.

Post 262 - Says not voting for Roa means we might lynch somebody else randomly. Defends Legate for the second time. Accuses Brinniel and Kath.

Post 268 - Votes Roa.

Post 278 - Nothing.

Post 282 - Nothing much.

Post 308 - Accuses mith.

Post 314 - Dear me. A long analysis of everybody. Let's see:
Neutral about Brinniel.
Neutral about Gil.
Thinks I'm innocent.
Neutral about Hookbill.
Suspects Kath.
Defends Kitanna.
Neutral about Lalaith.
Neutral about Legate.
Neutral/ slightly suspicious of Manwe.
Suspects Mith.
Neutral about SpM.
Suspects Lommy.
Suspects Rune.

Post 316 - Nothing.

Post 331 - Defends herself against Lommy's accusations.

Post 364 - Suspects Rune and Lalaith.

Post 389 - votes for Rune. Mild suspicion of Hookbill, Gil. Slight defense of Lommy over her Glirdan slip.

Post 396 - Wants to know how her playing style has changed, according to people.

Post 404 - Defends her vote for Rune.

Post 415 - Nothing.



Well... that took FAR longer than I expected. I don't think I can manage even this undetailed analysis for all five. Nogrod, will you have time to do a few? Hookbill and Kitanna in particular have seemed to escape widespread attention.

It's hard to come to a conclusion on durelin. I don't know her playing style, so I don't see how it's changed. I find nothing to jump on, nothing that seems to shout Faithful. She does, however, seem to post quite often to say nothing much.

I don't really agree with a lot of her reasoning - her attacking Rune, wanting to lynch Roa, etc. But these aren't indicators of Faithfulness, but a difference of style, technique and belief.

I still find her quite neutral. That was a worthwhile analysis.
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Old 03-03-2007, 06:10 PM   #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nogrod
Now this makes me scan to the PanMan again. Maybe this is yet another Valarish plan of the Faithfuls, but I still think that if SPaMman is innocent - and as the Faithfuls knew I would be protected - why did they kill Rune instead of him?
Thus far I have believed SpM to be innocent, but his continued life makes me doubt him a little.

The problem is that this always happens when SpM lives late into a game. People think that he must be a wolf, because otherwise the wolves would see him as a threat and kill him off.
However, the wolves know people will think this, so they may leave him alive in order to let him garner votes.
Or perhaps they leave him because they know that he is influential, but his suspicions are all wrong and so misleading the village.

I think it's impossible to decide.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogrod
I'm still a bit at loss with your logic tgwbs. It's just hard to say whether we think this differently (and naturally thinking the other one does it really bad) or are you a Faithful who deliberately tries to make others think weirdly...
I do have a very unique brand of logic, being a mathematician. However, that idea was just me trying to attach meaning to Rune's murder. I can't figure out why they chose him, and this annoys me a lot because this is the first person the Faithful have killed out of choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lommy
And TGWBS, I think you manage to point out how weird/contradictory Mänwe is...
I have neither said that he has been weird nor that he has been contradictory. I've said I don't like the way he tried to spread the unease and doubt around Rikae.

Goodnight.
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Old 03-03-2007, 06:43 PM   #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogrod
Now this makes me scan to the PanMan again. Maybe this is yet another Valarish plan of the Faithfuls, but I still think that if SPaMman is innocent - and as the Faithfuls knew I would be protected - why did they kill Rune instead of him?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TGWBS
Thus far I have believed SpM to be innocent, but his continued life makes me doubt him a little.
Ah, here we go. The point that plagues me every game where I last more than a few Days ...

I don't know why I haven't been killed. Then again, I don't know why Mithalwen hasn't been killed. Or Lalaith. Or many others still here. I suspect, however, that being one of the chief suspects of the only known innocent and nearly being lynched in place of the Cobbler two Days ago might have something to do with it ...

As for the reason behind Rune's death, I think that Nogrod has probably put his finger on it. His final two words most likely sealed his fate, suggesting as they did his innocence. Although it will be worth looking at those he suspected and those who voted for him to see whether there may have been other motives.

I am afraid, however, that it is getting late here. Still early-ish, by my normal standards, I suppose, but I am tired. I leave you with the Day 3 voting record and will take a closer look at it when I return tomorrow.

Brinniel: ++Rune (Rune 1)
TGWBS: ++Brinniel (Rune 1, Brinniel 1)
Kitanna: ++Hookbill (Rune 1, Brinniel 1, Hookbill 1)
TGWBS: --Brinniel, ++Manwe (Rune 1, Hookbill 1, Manwe 1)
Kath: ++Rune (Rune 2, Hookbill 1, Manwe 1)
Rune: ++Brinniel (Rune 2, Hookbill 1, Manwe 1, Brinniel 1)
SpM: ++Lommy (Rune 2, Hookbill 1, Manwe 1, Brinniel 1, Lommy 1)
Mithalwen: ++Lalaith (Rune 2, Hookbill 1, Manwe 1, Brinniel 1, Lommy 1, Lalaith 1)
Durelin: ++Rune (Rune 3, Hookbill 1, Manwe 1, Brinniel 1, Lommy 1, Lalaith 1)
Lalaith: ++Brinniel (Rune 3, Hookbill 1, Manwe 1, Brinniel 2, Lommy 1, Lalaith 1)
Lommy: ++Brinniel (Rune 3, Hookbill 1, Manwe 1, Brinniel 3, Lommy 1, Lalaith 1)
Legate: ++Brinniel (Rune 3, Hookbill 1, Manwe 1, Brinniel 4, Lommy 1, Lalaith 1)
Mithalwen: --Lalaith, ++Brinniel (Rune 3, Hookbill 1, Manwe 1, Brinniel 5, Lommy 1)
Hookbill: ++Manwe (Rune 3, Hookbill 1, Manwe 2, Brinniel 5, Lommy 1)
SpM: --Lommy, ++Rune (Rune 4, Hookbill 1, Manwe 2, Brinniel 5)
Nogrod: ++Manwe (Rune 4, Hookbill 1, Manwe 3, Brinniel 5)
Nogrod: --Manwe, ++Rune (Rune 5, Hookbill 1, Manwe 2, Brinniel 5)

Did not vote: Gil-Galad, Manwe
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Old 03-03-2007, 07:19 PM   #432
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Durelysis

Day1
#25 Speaks about the roles and the quantities, "Everyone who's discussing how the wolves are/will behave is out of their minds. It's Day 1. The wolves don't have to do anything but sit back and let everyone get confused, bogged down by theories and plans." Says she agrees with Sauce and Nogrod, but doesn't elaborate about what. Calls the SPM-Mänwe interaction interesting. Finds Mith's comment about gifteds strange. Is irked by Glirdy's post. Comments on a remark by Garin. Promises a vote for us to chew soon.
#29 Agrees with Rune about Mänwe acting weirdly in his few latest posts. Says Mänwe's talking the ultimate Day1 in-character nonsense. Says she has nothing else to go on and votes him. Says she'll be back to reconsider the vote.
#84 Doesn't like the idea of lynching Nog or SPM simply because they'd be dangerous as faithfuls. Mänwe doesn't sit right with her, but she thinks a faithful would maybe be more honey-tongued. Says Rikae's vote for Mänwe wasn't suspicious per se, but that it was so close after her own Mänwe-vote makes it odd. Apologises to Garin and finds him "pretty darn odd looking".
#107 I suspicious of Rikae and Garin, but not probably enough to switch from Mänwe. Agrees with Mith about Roa being very loud and wanting to lynch SPM. Answers to TGWBS why was she worried about Glirdy not saying much, but not about Kath. Thinks Hookbill has a good point about Mänwe and says that makes her think he's the cobbler. Does not like Mänwe's comment that he wants Nog lynched. Agrees with Nogrod that in werewolf people always tend to go after the easy targets. Asks if Nogrod has any new thoughts (since he suggested the "possibility of looking things anew").
#110 Right after Rikae revealing: "Oh lord, I knew this was going to be off to a bad start..." and a switch form Mänwe to Garin.
#125 "Wow, there were a lot more people around then I thought. I guess I jumped the gun thinking voting Garin was my only option. Argh."

Comments: Well, she spends a lot of time agreeing with this and that. Her first vote is weird. I mean, she promises to vote soon though she's sure she can come back. Then she votes someone who (it seems) she wasn't really very suspicious of ("there's nothing better to go on"). Why do this? Why just not vote? Because she's a wolf who wants to ensure she's voted early and no one can blame her since that was a reasonable vote at that phase, but later she'd need to make a more reasoned vote? Also, I can't understand that last comment of hers. During the day, she expressed suspicion of three people: Mänwe, Rikae and Garin. She had voted Mänwe previously and had switched to Garin. She knew Rikae was the seer. What's the lost possibility she was after? I don't understand. She seems suspicious.

Day2
#141 Cheers the ranger, says she's now a bit more hopeful. Wonders how Rikae can be sure that the ranger protected her. "Why would the wolves choose to risk wasting a nice kill? Is it simply stupidity, or were they that desperate to kill Rikae for some reason?" Agrees with Rikae about Rikae-voters (she said that looking her voters isn't probably very useful). says she'll have a look at Garin-voters and those who did not join bandwagons. States that wolves have no need to join a bandwagon on Day1. Says to Mänwe Roa's analysis are helpful. Says she had neither a case against Mänwe the Day before nor lots of things to back her suspicion.
#150 Says she missed the protectee-will-be-told -rule.
#156 A sarcastic remark about Gil's behaviour. Thanks Roa for the analysises, says the one about Hookbill is the most interesting one, implies that she'll be watching him. Repeats that the Garin-voters should be looked at.
#216 Is cheerful of Rikae's success. Says she has no reason to doubt Rikae and that Roa should be ignored. Wonders about Roa expressing faith in Legate, but doesn't reach any conclusion. Talks about the cobbler. Corrects my vote summary. Says that I, Brinn and Hook have " bit of a forced, edgy sort of feel to their posts - - , but I definitely do not suggest they are all three wolves or even two of them are, though it's possible." Thinks Brinn's vote for Legate was a safe one, does not know what to think of him.
#228 Says Rikae has a good point when she says Roa should be left alive, but says that Roa can do a lot of harm while alive by for example voting. Replies to Roa.
#262 "I do hope we're not overthinking this, and will trap ourselves in that. I also hope that 'wasting a lynch' on Roa doesn't mean we will waste a lynch on a different person who seems simply a good alternative." Says that the village has spent a lot of time discussing Rikae and Roa and that if Roa is not lynched, the lynch target will be far too random. Does a little vote summary. "If Roa is indeed the cobbler, which I will assume for now, I think more consideration regarding SPM's guilt can wait". Says Roa's support makes Legate an easy target, says again that she has no idea of him. Agrees with TGWBS that we should look at those Roa didn't mention. Is concerned about Brinn and Kath and their quietness.
#268 "Everyone's right about people "dropping like flies," and I really don't want us to end up stuck with a Cobbler and x number of wolves, with the few innocents left carried along with the tide." Says cobblers are nassty to have around, votes Roa. Says she can change if a better suggestion emerges.
#278 Agrees with Nogrod about "clarity". "Mith - Why are you so concerned about saving Roa, but at the same time you make it seem like you feel SPM really is a shot in the dark?"
#282 Says we're far from lost yet.

Conclusions: By no way as suspicious as her Day1. Actually she'd seem pretty innocent had she not made that weird comment about SPM ("If Roa is indeed the cobbler, which I will assume for now, I think more consideration regarding SPM's guilt can wait") and had she not been that eager to join TGWBS's campaing to search for clues from Roa's posts, and even in an over-simplistic logic.

Day3
#308 "Regardless of our odds, we have rid ourselves of a Cobbler. The wolves are ally-less, and we have two Gifteds still safe...as long as we don't try and lynch them." Says that (mathemathically speaking) there must be at least one wolf in those who wanted to keep Roa alive, implies that Roa was a good lynch target, defends this view against TGWBS. Suspects Mith is an acting bold wolf, since she was so over-dramatic.
#314 "I don't know what a wolf Mith would try to do, but it doesn't sit right with me." Sums up her feelings about people: Brinn - no clear opinion, Gil - totally uninvolved, TGWBS - has points for and against his wolvishness, Hookbill - thinks he's amiable and his style's setting people off, Kath - sneaky, Kitanna - sneakier than Kath, but innocent-looking, Lalaith - confusing, Legate - amiable and helpful -> pretending?, Mänwe - confusing, Sauce - normal expect less involved, Lommy - too silent and edgy. Suspects Rune because he had a "way better feel" about Legate and still voted him and because his Roa-comments and notes that Rune has gone amost unnoticed. Does not understand the save Roa -campaign.
#316 Jokes to SPM.
#331 Defends her cheerfulness about Rikae having dreamt by the cobbler. says that her vote for Mänwe on Day1 was she trying to see if people would wake up a bit.
#364 Asks Mith for reasons to her suspects, wants to know what she thinks of Brinn. Names Rune and Lalaith her top suspects. "She [Lalaith]'s been nice and cautious, and makes it seem like she expresses her own opinions, though her opinions are nicely placed after someone else has already expressed similar ones, as if she's helping guilt along." Asks Lal a question.
#389 Replies Lalaith. Notes about silent people (Mänwe, Hookbill, Gil). Does not understand the concern over my mistake. Votes Rune.
#396 Asks Nogrod how has her playing style changed (since Nog said so).
#404 Says Rune's not a last-minute lynch and that not many people seem to suspect him.
#415 "Are we ever going to cease making this difficult for our poor Modalaure?"

Comments: Not that suspicious either. I think a wolf would have only been happy to jump at my mistake, and that kind of makes me less wary of her. Her explanation of her day1 vote is reasonable... but in a slightly wolvish way. It's so easy to say that afterwards. I don't like her comment about wolves being ally-less... In my opinion a cobbler isn't that big loss to the wolves, especially not when there's four of them and they're all still alive. The phrasing of that comment just bugs me.

Final comments
There's not as much reason- or sense-based reasons to suspect her as I thought there was. (But there's still plenty of them , especially in her Day1 -behaviour.) But, my gut-feeling of her being a faithful has become even stronger. There's something in her manner that really doesn't sit right with me.

EDIT: xed
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Old 03-03-2007, 07:49 PM   #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPaMman
Quote:
Originally Posted by TGWBS
Thus far I have believed SpM to be innocent, but his continued life makes me doubt him a little.
Ah, here we go. The point that plagues me every game where I last more than a few Days ...
Now now... Have we seen an act looking more Faithfulish than this? Look at the bolding and make your deductions...

Darn shared computer and most of all the timetables - and clock anyway! I try to look at some things briefly now. I will be back later, although in the middle of RL rush. Still I try to find some time to sit down for at least one good while. It's so frustrating to have one's last Day alive in the middle of gazillions of hindrances...
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Old 03-03-2007, 08:34 PM   #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man
I don't know why I haven't been killed. Then again, I don't know why Mithalwen hasn't been killed. Or Lalaith. Or many others still here. I suspect, however, that being one of the chief suspects of the only known innocent and nearly being lynched in place of the Cobbler two Days ago might have something to do with it ...
"Or many others still here..." You're right with this! Why wouldn't they have killed Mith or Lalaith, or Lommy or Durelin or tgwbs or Legate or...? How do you make a difference? Maybe one should look at whom the Faithfuls wouldn't like to see around in this confused situation where everyone is as suspicious as any other? But they would not kill one of themselves as the rules deny the chance...

So whom do we have there but you Mr. SPM? It was the Faithfuls' first actual night of open choice last Night if you don't remeber. They had everyone but me on their plate... and if you're innocent they just happily ignored you as they thought that an innocent Spm's analysis would leave them intact toDay and would be less of a threat to them than Rune? Remember the numbers...

Quote:
As for the reason behind Rune's death, I think that Nogrod has probably put his finger on it. His final two words most likely sealed his fate, suggesting as they did his innocence. Although it will be worth looking at those he suspected and those who voted for him to see whether there may have been other motives
You just can't be serious here! In this situation the Faithfuls have no reason to shy away from killing an "innocent Spm" just because Rune had one of them on his suspicion list! C'mon man and admit it!

So aren't you now trying to mislead people here to spend their time on that? The killing of Rune can be explained as it's clearly because of his honest frustration ("Silly sods") when he thought (mistakingly) that we had lynched him. But just consider the scale here. Somewhat dubiously shared belief of Rune's innocence (which four Faithfuls could thwart easily at least to a degree where it would not be a shared fact) vs. the possibly damning analyses by Spm?

I have backed down with suspecting you lately because of a lack of any further evidence and because I have thought (and still do) that as an innocent you would be an asset to the village, but now I'm getting the "proofs" I need to call for your immediate lynching... followed by lynching of tgwbs who has generously come to "doubt you a little".

Sorry guys but you are caught.

That's what I think anyway now.

I hope I will have time enough later toDay to elaborate on this and possibly to see to some others too (Durelin I'm a bit worried about but just can't pin it down as yet).
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Old 03-03-2007, 08:40 PM   #435
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so with Nogrods reasoning TWGBS and SPm should be looked at closely, if they are two faithfuls then that is indeed dangerous... so i shall have to go ahead and vote for one of them, if either of them is innocent and the other may be too, and seeing that SPm may be a greater asset my vote goes for this

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Old 03-03-2007, 08:44 PM   #436
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Okay, that last minute Brinniel thing confused me just as much as the last minute try-to-save Roa thing did. Again, it was like people were trying to rescue Rune, rather than vote for who they were actually suspicious of. I am really bothered by how people, even if they speak their own minds, do not back it up with a vote. Rather than voting for who they find suspicious, they vote for just who "looks like they can be lynched," who maybe they suspect a little, maybe even more than a little...but all the while their top suspect is forgotten, and all the analysis or what have you they did against them becomes meaningless.

Please, please - everyone. We have to get a wolf toDay (duh, I know), so please vote for who you think is suspicious, and not just who is convenient.

I am not going to get over Mith, I'm sorry. I just don't get her attitude. She's making as big of a fuss as possible over the state of the village at every turn, but not doing much about it. The past two Days she's rushed in at the last minute to save first a probable Cobbler and then an at that time unknown from lynching. YesterDay she specifically switched her vote to do so from Lalaith. She switched her vote from Lalaith to match Lalaith's. Eh?

The Brinniel bandwagon really started with a simple spite vote from Rune. It's absurd. Yes I suspected her a bit, but obviously I didn't see a reason to lynch her immediately...and no one seemed to give much of a reason, either.

Lalaith: "I don't much like the choices we've got but like I said before, it's a toss-up for me between her and Manwe, and I don't think Rune's guilty."

Lommy: "of my suspects she can be lynched"

Mith gives no reason for her switched vote, and Legate, though he at least seems to have been fairly "sure" of her guilt, doesn't give a reason for his certainty.

Not all of those people can be wolves, so it seems some of the innocents in this game are using as many underhanded tactics as the wolves likely are, strategizing their lynch targets based on who can be lynched.

Lommy - I thought I explained my Day 1 vote in the very post my vote was in, but when I look back at the actual post...obviously, I wasn't very clear. But I talked about "stirring things up" in my previous post, so if you think I was explaining it away later, at least I was consistent, eh?

I swear no one's paid attention to me in games in a while. Because unless I'm going completely crazy, I know that voting early when I don't have to is something I sometimes do, just to see what happens.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lommy
had she not made that weird comment about SPM ("If Roa is indeed the cobbler, which I will assume for now, I think more consideration regarding SPM's guilt can wait") and had she not been that eager to join TGWBS's campaing to search for clues from Roa's posts, and even in an over-simplistic logic.
Ouch. Over-simplistic? If I was over-simplifying things, I certainly wasn't reading very deeply into Roa's posts, now was I? And I meant by my comment that considering the only person who was vehemently supporting suspicion of SPM (well, other than Gil, sort of) turned out to be the Cobbler, we should probably forget about all her reasons of why to lynch him. I tend to think aloud in my posts, so basically that was me trying to narrow down the suspects in my mind.

Edit: Crossed with Nog and Gil
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Old 03-03-2007, 09:02 PM   #437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durelin
And I meant by my comment that considering the only person who was vehemently supporting suspicion of SPM (well, other than Gil, sort of) turned out to be the Cobbler, we should probably forget about all her reasons of why to lynch him. I tend to think aloud in my posts, so basically that was me trying to narrow down the suspects in my mind.
What happened just a moment ago? Did I have some suspicions over Durelin? And just see what she writes here...

So we should not lynch Spm and conveniently she forgets that I have also suspected Spm from Day1 on quite openly. I think I was indeed the first to suspect him with anything like a point added...

So do we have three wolves in a list of Spm, tgwbs, Durelin...?

Oh you can't be that easy to pick now! Where's the sport now?

Or maybe it was the first actual choice you Faithfuls had to make that just revealed you as you had to try and make it good?

Okay. I'm off for a while but if you will pay heed to an innocent's point of view, think closely before you let these three to turn your minds. If they are the Faithfuls they're surely be honey-tongued and reasonable. No doubt.

tgwbs: how about a short list now? One that the known innocent gives consisting of you three?
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Old 03-03-2007, 09:04 PM   #438
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Nogrod - SPM's wording, particularly what you highlighted there, indeed seems to scream *ploy*. The subtlety of it makes it so...well, blatant. But I don't follow your logic much further. I think it's very odd for anyone to bring up the "oh, lad-dee-da, I wonder why I haven't been killed yet... *whistles*" (and lord, particularly when the wolves have only made one free choice on kills, as you said), but you also seem to venture into the idea that SPM or someone else considered *dangerous* should have been killed in the Night. But it's the smartest thing for the wolves to leave alive those who have gotten/are getting at least some suspicion. As you've said, they've only made one "free" choice, so why would they take out someone who might get lynched?

I think I'm reading that wrong, so perhaps you shouldn't waste your time explaining that I am.

Edit: Crossed with Nog, again.
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Old 03-03-2007, 09:15 PM   #439
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Nogrod - In what you quote, I was explaining myself to Lommy, not expressing my [edit: current] opinions on SPM, and certainly not in response to your post. If I didn't know you were innocent, I'd say you were "grasping."

What if I did say I didn't think we should lynch SPM? What does that really say? I certainly put weight in your opinions, and you are a valuable ally, but you are not the Seer. I'll think for myself, as well. Something that so far has been difficult, and left us in this boat of 9 against 4.

If we do have a wolf in SPM or TGWBS, though, we'll be in a much better one.
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Old 03-03-2007, 09:25 PM   #440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durelin
[b]but you also seem to venture into the idea that SPM or someone else considered *dangerous* should have been killed in the Night. But it's the smartest thing for the wolves to leave alive those who have gotten/are getting at least some suspicion. As you've said, they've only made one "free" choice, so why would they take out someone who might get lynched?
Spm generally is lynched very early on for some nonexistent grounds by whims of the first Days or then he stays to the end. (Please Spm correct me if I'm wrong about the general tendency) I could indeed bet a nice amount for seeing a village that would lynch Spm after let's say Day5. He's good in this game and can work his way to be the one whom the others trust.

So the possibility of him being lynched is overtly thin indeed (no pun intended ). That's one of the main reasons - not the only one - I'm getting assured he's a Faithful.

Also, please Durelin, list me the names of those who have not gotten "at least some suspicion" around here...

So what do you have for the Faithfuls to "leave alive those who have gotten/are getting at least some suspicion"? Should they have abstained from killing anyone?

And whom would you... *coughsorrycough* ... the Faithfuls not see alive?

How is it that he's alive and you are defending him again? It's a sad thing to see one digging her own grave but when it's one of them terrible Faithfuls I must say we true Numenorians rejoice in all this...

Nice to see things unfolding after so long time of darkness and doubt...

EDIT: X'd with Durelin
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