A Query On Lothlorien

[The 1,000 Reader]

We all know that Lothlorien was a powerful Elven Realm in Middle-Earth. Dol Guldur could not take it after three assaults, and it took out Dol Guldur in one. Also, Galadriel had her ring to "preserve" the forest.

However, how well could the ring preserve the forest? I will now ask the greatest question.

Couldn't the orcs just set the forest on fire and burn Lothlorien down?

...seriously, the elves live in the trees practically, so couldn't a fire just kill them all?

[MatthewM]

The borders of Lothlorien were heavily, heavily guarded.

Did they not also have help from the Mirkwood elves in the end? Besides the guards, there were probably spells. Remember, as "Lady of the Wood" Galadriel knew what trespassed in her realm and with her ring could keep it from Sauron's power. But that is an interesting question. It was said that he planned to devastate Rivendell by dragonfire, wouldn't Sauron have other forces to throw at Lorien? And wouldn't Lorien have been the better (and closer) target in the first place? But Galadriel was powerful in her own right even without the ring.

[goldfinger]

If you read Appendix B of RotK, it states in it's query on the War in the North, that Lorien's borders were heavily damaged after the assaults. So there your answer.

[The 1,000 Reader]

That doesn't specify if fire damaged it or simply combat damaged it (security, cut down trees, etc.) The elves are tough, but it sounds ridiculous that they could instantly kill all of the army (or something like that) before any fires were lit.

Even with heavy defenses, couldn't one orc just torch the base of a tree? Seriously, if the forest is as thick as it appears on maps, then why couldn't an orc walk into the middle of the forest, shoot a flaming arrow into a tree canopy, and then flee from the flames? The fire could probably take out a good chunk of Mirkwood and Lothlorien, depending on where it was started.

[Liriodendron]

Silly me.....I just imagine Galadriel making it rain hard.....

[Rhod the Red]

I'm guessing because the trees were protected by magic to prevent burning, maybe Galadriel's Ring. Afterwards the forest fades away so to speak when its power dissaptes.

[Raynor]

But do not think that only by singing amid the trees, nor even by the slender arrows of elven-bows, is this land of Lothlorien maintained and defended against its Enemy.

It would seem that it wasn't just the power of weapons that was protecting Lothlorien, as has been pointed previously. We should also remember that she has the ring of water, so protection against fire would be even more adequate.

[Farael]

Not to mention that starting a forest-fire is a bit harder than

flaming-arrow POOF!!! fire.

Sure, there is the potential for a forest fire from things like a cigarette butt but it takes some specific circumstances (and some bad luck) for the fire to catch on and become a raging inferno.

For example, living trees are not very combustible... anyone who has tried breaking a branch off from a tree and tossing it into a camp-fire will see it. While trees can (and do) burn, it takes some serious heat to ignite them. In forest fires, often it's the fallen leaves that ignite first... and over the years a rather impressive amount of them may pile up, thus leading to enough fire to ignite trees, and then it spreads even more wildly. I don't know if the elves cleared the fallen leaves (after all Mallorn DID loose their leaves, but that happened during spring, when the flowers were blooming) or if perhaps they started smaller, controlled forest-fires (just like they do nowadays) to make sure that there never is enough debris left to start a real fire at an inopportune time.

Then there's the issue that, for the fire to be a viable militaristic alternative, they have to ensure that it actually catches on... which means, not only firing an arrow (or rather, a few hundred) or starting a few hundred fires, but also making sure that no-one is putting them away. That is hard to do in the middle of a battle, or with elven arrows whistling around you.

So, the way I see it, fire wasn't a viable alternative, since:
*They could probably not get close enough to start it
* If they managed to start a fire, they couldn't stay around to see if it caught on or not, as the elves were quite likely to show up (annoying elves)
*If they managed to start a fire, and then somehow it caught on, they still couldn't trust that it'd burn Lothlorien down. The spread of the fire depends on both the terrain... and wind.
*Finally, and perhaps most importantly, as it has been mentioned before, it is likely that some sort of "supernatural" (or rather, elven, who are VERY natural in Middle Earth) force was protecting Lothlorien.

Now, a dragon may have worked, as it could

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Right. I remember when Eorl the Young was riding from the North, strange mist from Lothlórien covered all the valley of Anduin (over the river, to the eastern side!). Galadriel certainly couldn't have had problems with anything like simple fire, unless it was started really in large scale and possibly boosted with some evil power.

[The 1,000 Reader]

Originally Posted by Farael

Then there's the issue that, for the fire to be a viable militaristic alternative, they have to ensure that it actually catches on... which means, not only firing an arrow (or rather, a few hundred) or starting a few hundred fires, but also making sure that no-one is putting them away. That is hard to do in the middle of a battle, or with elven arrows whistling around you.

A good amount of oil could solve that, and it sounds like it could be pulled off in a battle with the elves distracted.

Originally Posted by Farael

*Finally, and perhaps most importantly, as it has been mentioned before, it is likely that some sort of "supernatural" (or rather, elven, who are VERY natural in Middle Earth) force was protecting Lothlorien.

I thought so, but I didn't want to say it in case it would be corny. I also couldn't remember what ring she had.

As for fires boosted by evil, in the siege of Minas Tirith the Mordor catapult stones burst into flames in midair.

[Boromir88]

There was this magical power over Lorien that was protecting it...and that was because of Galadriel. As Raynor and others allude to, Galadriel used Nenya to preserve and protect Lorien. And we are told Lorien (and the power within Lorien) could only be overcome if Sauron came himself:

Three times Lorien had been assailed from Dol Guldur, but besides the valour of the elven people of that land, the power that dwelt there was too great for any to overcome, unless Sauron had come there himself.~Appendix B: Tale of Years, The Great Years.

[Thinlómien]

Also, one must take into account that dry wood burns better than wet wood. And I don't imagine Lórien as a very dry forest, rather as a more humid and a more fruitful one.

[The 1,000 Reader]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

There was this magical power over Lorien that was protecting it...and that was because of Galadriel. As Raynor and others allude to, Galadriel used Nenya to preserve and protect Lorien. And we are told Lorien (and the power within Lorien) could only be overcome if Sauron came himself:

I was just wondering if the preservation included fire protection, or if it just kept the forest from rotting or growing old. With all of Middle-Earth's magic never being very direct (such as making somebody explode randomly) it's unsure whether or not anything direct would be possible.

[Elmo]

I think if Sauron could of burnt it he would have, remember the scorched brown lands

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by hewhoarisesinmight

I think if Sauron could of burnt it he would have, remember the scorched brown lands

But there was no might High Elf in the Brown Lands with an Elven Ring to protect it.