The Fellowship of the Fourth Age (Part 1): A New Beginning Discussion Thread

[Durelin]

Durelin- I think what you've done with Shae so far is mostly fine. Just don't forget she is just as injured as Khamir...I sort of got the impression that it seemed otherwise when she helped him over to where the injured sat.

I had her helping simply because I thought she at least didn't have any injuries in her legs, and thus could walk better. I'm sure they were probably all sort of helping each other, just trying to keep each other standing... Here, I'll edit something like that in.

Let me know if there are any other problems.

[Brinniel]

Thanks...looks all good now.

Sorry...I suppose I can be a bit picky.

[Child of the 7th Age]

I usually prefer to "go with the flow" and let characters respond spontaneously. But the meeting with the orcs is going to take some planning. My main concern is making it believable that these two groups might actually consider grudging cooperation. This is obviously not something Tolkien explored in his stories other than his brief comment in HoMe about the possibility of "mercy".

Durelin and I exchanged pms and came up with the following ideas. None of this is written in stone. Additional ideas/comments are welcome, especially since some of this action "makes assumptions" about your characters that may or may not be right. If you're not comfortable with something in this post or have another idea, please speak out....

First, it's preferable that any action with orcs takes place in the slavers' camp rather than at the original campsite where the battle occurred and where the injured are now recuperating. I can definitely see how an advance party of 12-15 good guys could ride over to the slavers’ camp intending to gather supplies; discover a small group of drunk, snoring orcs; and then manage to overpower them. But I don't think we have the manpower to clamp these orcs in chains and drag them off against their will back to our original camp. That means we have two choices: kill the orcs on the spot (not good for our storyline) or imprison them temporarily in the slavers’ camp until the others arrive and we make a decision.

Logistically speaking, it would be very possible to imprison the orcs temporarily. The slavers’ camp has pens, corrals, pits, manacles, and chains….very convenient for our guests. We could use those facilities and implements to keep the orcs in check till the rest of our group arrives. That could be the next day, or if we wanted, even a later day by use of a time condense post. Meanwhile, those left behind at the original campsite could use the time to recuperate from injuries, bury or more likely burn the dead, tend to the wounded.

We had an earlier discussion about numbers of male and female orcs, but never reached a firm decision. Overall there are 15 orcs. Could we go with 10 males (Makdush, Ishkur, Gwerr, Grask and 6 NPC) and 5 females (Zagra, Mazhg, Ungolt and 2 NPC) ? One male (Grask) and one female (NPC) would be under age. That means the fellowship will have to contend with 9 sleeping/drunk adult male warriors (3 uruks?, 6 regular orcs?) I am guessing that the females and Grask will not be totally drunk and will be able to hide and evade the intial round-up and imprisonment by the good guys….but that will be up to you.

I believe there are 46 living ex-slaves plus 7 fellowship members. Of the ex-slaves, I would guess that 26 are men and women who would normally fight; 20 are children and females who do not usually fight. Another 6 members of the fellowship are combattants; Azhar is not. So overall we have 53 good guys: 32 fighters and 21 non-fighters. That’s 32 against 10 fierce orc warriors… plus some angry female orcs as well! This sounds about right for the two groups to keep each other in check, with neither having the clear upperhand. Of course right now, the number of good guys is lower because so many are injured. Still, we probably have 20 or so capable of fighting.

A possible plot line….

1. 12-15 relatively able bodied fighters ride over to the slavers’ camp at dawn to check on supplies. There is a wagon in the slavers’ camp which they intend to use for transporting the supplies.

2. When this party arrives, they discover 9 drunk/snoring male orcs….. Women and children are nowhere to be seen????

I can see one of our good guys who hates orcs come into camp first and stumble upon a sleeping victim. He/she will draw sword and prepare to execute. Lindir, who nominally heads the party, will stop him. (Don’t suppose everyone will be thrilled with that!) Lindir will order the males chained and thrown into the underground pit while we consider our options.

3. Since Lindir has no idea whether there are more orcs lurking about, he feels it’s essential that everyone unite in a single camp as soon as possible. He sends one or two messengers back to camp along with the wagon and tells the entire group to prepare to leave the next morning (?) after a day’s rest. Those in camp will presumably be thrilled to hear this news. When the actual trip comes the next morning, the sick will be transported in the slavers’ wagon and on sledges. We can do this in a narrative post rather than get too bogged down.

The next day everyone arrives in the slavers' camp, and the debate begins.

I see 3 options: kill the orcs immediately, leave them chained at the bottom of the pit (which Lindir sees as equivalent to a sentence of death) or leave them free to go their own way. Surely, no one initially considered the possibility of cooperation.

Aiwendil, who has been delayed out in the wilds (I'll think of something!) comes stumbling into the meeting late…. The camp is already voting and the judgment is death. (I think this is in keeping with what people said earlier on this thread, but let me know if I am wrong.)

4. A few slaves step forward to execute the order. At this point something happens . This is something the orcs will need to plan but somehow, someway, one of the orcs needs to make a plea for mercy….

5. I am planning on having Aiwendil step forward and explain what he has seen out on the plain in very clear terms. To put it bluntly, neither group will survive on the plains of Gorgoroth unless they cooperate against the overwhelming threat of the “olog-hai”.

The group hopefully reconsiders. Orcs and good guys agree to march in proximity, if not exactly side by side....

Will this work? Ex-slaves and fellowship….please let me know if you’ll be waiting behind in camp or going with the advance party to the slavers’ camp. Orcs….please let me know if your character is going to be imprisoned or out hiding in the bushes (or doing something else for that matter.). Everyone is welcome to respond on this thread or send a pm if you have something special up your sleeve.

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Speaking of sleeves.... Firefoot, check your pm's.
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P.S. Would anyone like to be the character who first stumbles on a sleeping orc and draws out a sword to slay him?

[Regin Hardhammer]

Everyone,

The outline by Child and Durelin sounds fine to me. The orcs are already starting to plan what our response will be.

I do have one minor problem. I leave tomorrow for a three-day conference in Washington DC. That means I won't be able to post till late Monday or Tuesday. I'm not sure how fast things are going to play out so I don't know if my absence will be a problem.

Just in case....

Nogrod If Ishkur gets imprisoned while I am gone, could you carry him to prison along with Gwerr?

And Child this is to confirm my earlier pm.... Feel free to have Ishkur respond positively to the news that Makdush will bring.

See everyone later.

- Regin

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Two thoughts come to mind, Child. Firstly, I have always assumed that orcs were quite at home in pits and holes. But perhaps chaining them together will keep them out of mischief...or maybe they will get into worse mischief underground!

Secondly, would the average non-orc even be able to tell a female from a male orc? If so, perhaps the plea might be from a female who's not keen on being locked up with the males!

As for Carl, he is not running at 100%, but I can see him returning to the slavers' camp in order to keep his mind off things.

[Nogrod]

Well...

Basically it looks good.

But I'm a bit hesitant with this easy catch of all the orcs and am trying to bring together the puzzle left to me by Regin with his post here and his PM to me...

I know you others haven't played the orcs very much (except Undomë who's characters are now "safe" as it has been agreed that they will not drink too much and may get away) and from the viewpoint of the ex-slaves / the FS the orcs are mainly a challenge on your route.

But after playing the orc-guys pretty extensively with Regin I think we both have started to care for our characters so as to wish them to be able to make a difference as any character could - or at least not be such a prewritten fools.

And that I think would also enhance the actual playing, giving us all new ways to look at things and new situations to react to?

I agree that we should end up with a settlement - how fragile it might be - but just rounding up all the orcs doesn't sound like a way either Ishkur or Gwerr would allow it to go. They've been masterminding a few things already and would take care not to get drunk enough anyway as their future gold is at stake (even if they wouldn't be ready for any humans to appear, but just because of the Uruks they would be on alarm all the time). And they're over two thousand year old soldiers... they're no novices. Surely they would have something in their sleeve for any unforeseen situations?

If you haven't read their fortunes this far, they are in the slaver-captain's tent with all his treasure nicely packed into small pouches and laden to a horse that is also inside the tent. If they heard something alarming they would probably mount and ride away together coming back to see what's going on after they feel it's safer... That's just a preliminary thought, though.

I don't see this compromising the initial plan though. The discussions - as the rest of the ex-slaves / Fs would come to the camp - might just receive a few other unexpected guests with Aiwendil...

[Nogrod]

Thinking out aloud of the "forward party"...

We probably should pick there people who have time to post somewhat regularly and taking in characters who are relatively sound.

That means fex. that Hadith will not join them (as he wasn't able to take part in the closing action of the fight). But then again I would much like to warm up Dury's earlier idea of making Beloan an actual minor character, shared between Dury and me (others are welcome to use him for my part still even if we decide to make him "a character"). We could come up with a bio for him on the grounds of what Dury offered.

Then Beloan should be one of those in the advance party. And this giant-guy Qat possibly too as he's barely scratched?

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by Hilde

Secondly, would the average non-orc even be able to tell a female from a male orc? If so, perhaps the plea might be from a female who's not keen on being locked up with the males!

Well, I think we're going to go with the idea that Orcs reproduce in the same way as humans and Elves, so we can assume then that female Orcs have mammary glands. While that's certainly not always a give away, I imagine their voices are a little more...matronly? Perhaps their facial features are a little softer? And I imagine their a little lighter in build, though probably not by much.

I think confusion regarding this will definitely happen, though, when the slaves and fellowship first see them. I'd say we can assume that they'll see something different, though, and someone will suggest that they're...*gasp* female? I'm guessing the Orc-women might have something to say about the uncertainty there...

That's just me making assumptions. Does that sound at all plausible?

Originally Posted by Hilde

Firstly, I have always assumed that orcs were quite at home in pits and holes. But perhaps chaining them together will keep them out of mischief...or maybe they will get into worse mischief underground!

Good point...perhaps that should be worked in. (Don't we have enough going on? Yeah, yeah, probably...) Or, here's my attempt to explain it away: Well, the orcs are going to be found completely "wasted" at first, to put it bluntly. And from then on...well, I imagine they'll be closely guarded. And considering we've got people who have person grudges against Orcs, there are some that aren't going to hesitate to kill them on the spot if they make a move, which will be made clear, I'm sure, in various ways.

Wow, the Orc-human/elf/dwarf/hobbit relations are starting off really rough...

Nogrod -

I understand your concern with your character's actions and situation being determined. Child and I have been working with the assumption that all the Orc men in particular have been drinking quite a bit, thinking they can relax because everyone's dead and surely having something to celebrate because all the stuff in the camp is theirs (and we thought that this had been agreed upon, sorry we were mistaken). By the time the slaves and fellowship there, we guessed they'd all pretty much be out. Dragging passed out drunks into a pit is just rounding them up.

If you'd prefer a couple exceptions for you and Regin's character, I don't see a problem with having additional unexpected guests - two male orcs prepared to defend the females, children, and male orcs in the pit could only encourage the slaves and fellowship to decide that killing them was not the best idea. Not only do the have Aiwendil's warning, but then they'd also have two angry male orcs and some female orcs who are probably nearly just as fierce to deal with, and while their victory is simply assured by numbers, they really don't want any death, and certainly not more after their battle.

So, to put it simply, in my opinion, it is up to you...I don't think Child will have a problem adjusting things (that's why she posted the plans), but I will not speak for her.

And I agree, Nogrod, that Beloan should be one of the advance party. I actually was thinking of having him kind of initiate it by asking those who have seen the slaver camp where it is and if they have any idea how much supplies there might be...and get the ball rolling on a group to go scope it out and pick up some things. Lindir might be the one to really do that, though. Joint effort?

I hope that helps everyone at least an itty bit, and I'm sorry if I missed anything...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Dury

I understand your concern with your character's actions and situation being determined. Child and I have been working with the assumption that all the Orc men in particular have been drinking quite a bit, thinking they can relax because everyone's dead and surely having something to celebrate because all the stuff in the camp is theirs (and we thought that this had been agreed upon, sorry we were mistaken). By the time the slaves and fellowship there, we guessed they'd all pretty much be out. Dragging passed out drunks into a pit is just rounding them up.

Basically I agree with the situation you have worked with - as I think I have myself referred to a camp full of drunken orcs too... But I think the two veterans would know better than that - and it seems that for some reason (possibly some hitherto-unknown special trait of female orcs) the women are also taking it easier.

But that kind of makes it also a bit believable, I think. Count out Ishkur and Gwerr, the females and the underaged, and the advance party will meet with 7 orcs who can't even walk straight. With those they can deal with easily and have their moral problems whether to just kill them or let them live imprisoned.

That of course if Makdush will also be so stupid as to drink himself so passionately off the consciousness... That could indeed be one possibility to try and better the relations between Ishkur/Gwerr vs. Makdush, if he were to join the two after the others are taken as prisoners? (and there would be only six drunken orcs lying on the ground as the party comes in) Looking this from Gwerr's point of view, he would just detest the possibility , but from the overall narration's viewpoint it might be something we should consider?

Beloan should be one of the advance party. I actually was thinking of having him kind of initiate it by asking those who have seen the slaver camp where it is and if they have any idea how much supplies there might be...and get the ball rolling on a group to go scope it out and pick up some things. Lindir might be the one to really do that, though. Joint effort?

Let's work Beloan out then. I will look at your proposed bio-stuff tomorrow (RL) and will send you my suggestions.

But feel free to post with Beloan initiating the search-party. I think we have both posted quite a lot for him so that he could be an actual joint-character. What say you?

[Regin Hardhammer]

Child and Nogrod,

One piece of good news... I have a friend who's bringing a laptop so I can get computer access through him. That means I can post if I need to in this discussion and on the game.

**************

OK, I am more than a little confused. It was my original assumption that my character Ishkur would be pretty out of it by the morning because of drinking. In fact, I know Child is posting a save for Makdush where a wounded slaver passes on misinformation to a representative from the southern plantation, saying that all the slaves and slavers were likely wiped out. That was going to make Ishkur relax and stop worrying about who shows up in camp.

I really need to think about what's been said in this thread and figure out how Ishkur would fit into all this. Give me a little time and I'll try to post my response very late tonight.

[Folwren]

Hey, everyone!

I have been so crazily busy with things in RL, that I haven't had time to read this thread since Child's long post.

I had an idea, in case you all were wondering how on earth they won't kill eachother. Or how the slaves won't kill the orcs when they find the drunk orcs and all that kind of stuff. Well, it dawned upon me today that pretty much everyone there has just about every reason in the world to hate orcs except Athwen. She's never met one, she's never been harmed by one, she's never had family members harmed by one, she's not like Lindir and Aiwendil who have been enemies with them for years... I guess Vror and Rog might not have personal quarrels to pick...

Anyway, besides all that, she's also a woman and less than likely to want any more blood spilled than necessary.

If you can figure out a way for her lack of enmity towards the orcs and her gentleness to help you solve what problems you still have left with this, by all means, let me know and I'll do whatever I have to.

Also, all this might be obsolete, considering that there are several rather lengthy posts between this post and Child's.........

-- Folwren

[Regin Hardhammer]

Looking back on the summer, I'm pretty certain I was actually the one who first proposed that the orcs get drunk and pass out and that the women plead for mercy. I felt comfortable with that for my character. Ishkur's been under intense pressure on the road for a while, having to watch his back every minute. I could see him letting his guard down for one night, especially if he felt that no one is going to return to the camp. It just doesn't strike me that most orcs are terribly disciplined.

Still, I am willing to tinker with that as long as the basic story line remains intact. I do think it's important that all the male orcs be in chains by the second day when the women plead for the men's lives. I know that Firefoot and Undomie are already doing some planning for that.

Perhaps the story could go something like this.... Initially, there are six or seven orcs who "get away" and don't get caught by the slaves and the fellowship. In addition to Grask, Ungolt, and Undomie's sisters, this would include Gwerr, Ishkur and possibly Makdush, if Child wants to include him. I personally would like to have Makdush since it would break down some barriers between Uruks and regular orcs. Tnat means that eight orcs would initially be rounded up....that would include six males, one female and one female "child"---all NPCs. Later that same day, the three males could try to break in and free their companions. They come close to succeeding but at the last minute are beaten back and thrown in the pen with everyone else. The fact that they tried to stage a rescue against such big odds might surprise some of the slaves and fellowship....they could have just turned tail and run away. The next monring the others will arrive and we'll folllow the outline

As far as the motive and details as to why these orcs hid and/or weren't caught in the initial haul, we can leave that up to the individual orc poster.

Would something like that work?

By the way, I think Hilde is right about the caves and pits. In some ways, the worst thing you could do is to stake out the orc prisoners in bright sunlight in some kind of holding corrall, at least during the daytime hours. It would drive Ishkur crazy to be out there in the bright light. Maybe you can toss us into the pit that night.

Folwren I think you have a good idea. When the women make their plea to spare the other's lives, perhaps Athwen can be the first one to moved by their gesture???

Oh, yeah, about that money... Isn't there some way we could hold on to that? How closely are we going to be searched?

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

And don't forget that the pit has a way out of it. That would have to be blocked somehow.

Regin, I like the idea of the orcs coming back to free their fellows. It might strike a cord with Carl at least. He is under the impression that orcs are self- serving nogoodnicks, though he has never met one, and it may serve to chip away at this notion.

[Tevildo]

Regin and Nogrod - Like Hilde, I think this is a good idea.

The male orcs played by actual posters come off looking better than if they just got rounded up half drunk and asleep. Plus, Dorran will think a little better of someone who would come back and try to rescue a companion.

By having female orcs be among the first imprisoned, the good guys will also have a harder choice. It may be a cultural thing but I think it would be harder for Dorran to vote to execute a female, especially when one of these females is actually a "child". Under these circumstances, I'm not sure if the vote would be a hundred percent to execute as the outline says. It's vaguely possible that the vote would be to spare the woman and child and execute the rest.

As far as the orc money goes, I was thinking this. If Ishkur and Makdush found a nearby place to hide the money before they made the rescue attempt, no one would know about its existence. Once they're freed from the pit or pen or whatever, they could discreetly dig it up and conceal it on their bodies and saddlebags. No one is going to search them at that point. Plus that money could maybe make some interesting complications later, either serious or amusing.

Realistically, both Dorran and Azhar will have to remain behind when the advance party goes out to the slaver camp. They will recover enough to help tend the sick and prepare the bodies for burial or burning.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Regarding the orcs, this seems fine to me! I'd be glad to have Makdush be one of the three male orcs who manage to stay free for a bit and try and rescue the others. I'll delete my present save (which is long overdue) and work on a post this afternoon. It will be the same basic idea as before---a conversation between a wounded slaver and someone sent up from the southern plantation--only this time they will be saying that the slaves will likely be victorious and may well decide to come over to the slavers' camp in a day or two and clean it out. Makdush will pass this information on to Gwerr and/or Ishkur, which presumably would be an incentive for all of us to keep our eyes open.

There's a lot of other good ideas here as well and hopefully we'll incorporate some of those into our posts.

[Nogrod]

Looking good now... I think.

As Ishkur and Gwerr are together in the slave-master's tent with the horse (who is saddled with the money), it would be easy to them to get out when they notice the humans coming... If Child wishes to make Makdush also taking a runner, we could then make the three meet. How does that sound, Regin and Child?

Originally Posted by Tevildo

If Ishkur and Makdush found a nearby place to hide the money before they made the rescue attempt, no one would know about its existence.

Gwerr surely hopes the storyline will never reach this point...

EDIT: actually managed to x-post with Child...

[Child of the 7th Age]

This sounds good to me. I'll incorporate the horse into my post and the entry to the tent.

EDIT: Nogrod has been in contact reguarding Makdush's meeting with his character andwith Ishkur. I've taken down my save for now and will post later this weekend.

[Nogrod]

Just a question out of curiousness...

I think a few of the slavers did manage to get away alive. Now they should be heading towards their camp, naturally.

What happens then? It kind of mingles our overall plans that pay heed only to the ex-slaves / FS and the orcs or then I have overlooked something. I tried to skim both threads but couldn't find an answer to this.

If the remaining slavers are on horseback and ride fast, they will be at their camp probably a few hours before any "advance-group" will be there. So are the orcs sober enough to kill them and then they fall into their ale as they think they have won everything (a bad logic, I might say)?

Or do the slavers just see the drunken orcs in their camp from a distance and flee? (Was your idea, Child, here, that the wounded slaver and the one from the plantation would meet and talk the things Makdush might overhear? surely with a camp full of orcs they would not discuss things in the middle of it - or so near that someone could hear it from the camp?)

Or should we use a kind of Deus Ex Machina and make the Olog-hai to finish it with them (could they be this near and not then confront us others too early)?

Maybe they just flee as they see the camp occupied?

[Firefoot]

I was under the impression that only one slaver escaped from the fray...?

Concerning which Orcs should be among the first captured:

In some ways, I think it would be more interesting if there weren't any women among them (or if there were, I would argue against the female "child" being among them) simply because I think that it could build up the suspense better. If when the women make their plea for mercy, the ex-slaves are already aware of female and children, I think it would be less... meaningful? Or perhaps there is one female among those captured... I could see an argument for "it's just one," while if you have a female child already there it's less of a surprise and there would be less need for a change of mind than if there wasn't.

Does this make sense? I think it would be more interesting if the ex-slaves were on the point of killing the orcs when they realize there actually are (more) women and two children.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Firefoot

I was under the impression that only one slaver escaped from the fray...?

Originally Posted by Durelin in the rpg

There came a shout retreat from one of the slavers who still persisted in battle: “Retreat, these dogs can bite!” The Easterling raged in his own tongue as he broke away from confrontation and took off out of the grove, almost stumbling over dead bodies as he went. The others followed as best they could.
[........]
The Easterling gripped Khamir’s knife as he turned around to face the one-armed man. The enemies’ eyes met, but neither attacked. The slaver threw the blade onto the ground and took off after his companions. Khamir watched him go, and did nothing.

And what happened to the one Aiwendil chased out from the battle?

Anyhow, there seems to be some slavers quite alive...

Originally Posted by Firefoot

Concerning which Orcs should be among the first captured:

In some ways, I think it would be more interesting if there weren't any women among them (or if there were, I would argue against the female "child" being among them) simply because I think that it could build up the suspense better. If when the women make their plea for mercy, the ex-slaves are already aware of female and children, I think it would be less... meaningful?

I'm not sure about that, but what I'm a little concerned of is that if the advance-party tumbles to 6-7 strongly drunken orcs (no females or children), what would hold their hands? Would there be any reason to "save" them until the rest would come and we'd get into discussing their fate as we have planned?

How about if we write it so that the advance-party comes in and is about to kill the male orcs when someone discovers a hiding orc-child. One of them should speak bravely not being ready to kill a child, orc or not, and they would then decide to just round them up and wait for others to make a decision over their fates? Or something? Any ideas?

[Firefoot]

How about if we write it so that the advance-party comes in and is about to kill the male orcs when someone discovers a hiding orc-child. One of them should speak bravely not being ready to kill a child, orc or not, and they would then decide to just round them up and wait for others to make a decision over their fates? Or something? Any ideas?

This is kind of along the lines of what Child and I have pm'ed about... (hope I'm not giving away any secrets here ) The idea was sort of that Grask would feel some loyalty to Ishkur, so if he, in hiding, saw that Ishkur was about to be killed, he would furiously run out waving his short sword and be captured as well. This would then open the door for one or more of the female orcs to plead for mercy.

[Child of the 7th Age]

I'm not sure about that, but what I'm a little concerned of is that if the advance-party tumbles to 6-7 strongly drunken orcs (no females or children), what would hold their hands? Would there be any reason to "save" them until the rest would come and we'd get into discussing their fate as we have planned?

How about if we write it so that the advance-party comes in and is about to kill the male orcs when someone discovers a hiding orc-child. One of them should speak bravely not being ready to kill a child, orc or not, and they would then decide to just round them up and wait for others to make a decision over their fates? Or something? Any ideas?

I don't think this is a problem given the fact that Lindir will be leading the advance party. As I said before, Lindir will require the others to "stay their hand". Let me explain at greater length.

First, we have two situations when the orcs' lives are at stake. The first instance is when the advance party stumbles into the slavers' camp and discovers drunk orcs who are sleeping off their excesses from the night before. Lindir will be in charge of this little party, since he has the stamp of approval of Ellessar and more experience than anyone in the group. (Once it comes to establishing the settlement, this will definitely change but for now on the road it seems the most reasonable choice.) Lindir has killed plenty of orcs in battle over several thousand years. However, he has never run any enemies through in their sleep, and is not about to start now. Nor will he allow others under his command to run through people who are sleeping.

He will give an order to hold off on killing. I expect that there may be grumbles and mumbles and worse from some of the other characters but that is alright. He will stand his ground and insist. Moreover, there is another critical reason to keep these orcs alive at least till the point they can talk. (They are now incoherent.) Our group has no idea if this is simply a few stragglers from a much larger party lurking about on the plain, or if this handful is all there is. If we kill them, we will be killing our only possible source of information. Lindir will try to get the orcs to talk, perhaps even with a promise of being set free. Methinks they may not answer but that is something that can be worked out in the actual game thread.

The second time the orcs' lives are at stake is the next day when everyone shows up and there is an official "inquisition". Firefoot and Regin and Undomie (as seen in Firefoot's post above) already have plans for a little trick similar to what you've suggested. Without going into details, they will be using both Grask's youth and the women's plea to soften some hearts.

_____________

Regarding the slavers....yes, there are a number alive. I really couldn't give an exact number and I don't think we ever actually say. Imak is alive and the man chased by the boar. There were probably others in that last assault. I am personally comfortable with having this as a loose end. The reality of battle is that some soldiers wander off, especially when they sense their own forces have lost. I imagine these folk would hightail it back to the south, although there is always the possibility they could raise a head at some point in the story. But I don't think we're talking about more than a few loose ends. My gut feeling is that life has lots of loose ends so I don't mind one or two surfacing in a story. Tolkien himself was certainly an expert at loose ends, as so much is hinted at but never discussed or even intentionally passed over.

You had earlier suggested by pm that I not use any of these escaped slavers in my post, and I had agreed to have Makdush talk directly to Ishmur and Gwerr. So at this point, I don't think they will surface in the storyline.

_____________

Firefoot -

You make a good point about the younger girl. I'd be very comfortable with having her stay "free" and surface at the same time that Grask does.

[Nogrod]

About the slavers: Loose ends are alright with me too. Although I would just wish to rise this possibility to our shared consciousness: they probably didn't just ran away as they had all their belongings in their camp and Imak had all his fortune there. So they probably headed back to their camp but were frightened by the sight of the orcs having taken over it and didn't think it wise to try their luck another time the same night (they couldn't be sure how many orcs there were) and then rode away before any orc could notice them...

That would make Imak practically mad, though... (nice stuff if we can afford new twists in the storyline later on: a regrouped and replenished party of slavers led by blazing-angry Imak trailing these people & orcs for his treasure! Just a possibility, though.)

About the plot from orc-perspective: Okay. It seems I was the only one who didn't know how things were going to turn out... Go on and execute the plan and Gwerr will follow it. (So is it now that Ishkur, Makdush and Gwerr slip away as they hear the advance party coming and then make an effort to save the prisoners?)

But just on general level I think that any plotting that concerns the basic outline of the storyline should be openly discussed so that also those outside the scheming-circles would know when not to bother thinking how things will unfold and thence save their time and effort - and eventually not raise an issue over things that have been already decided by others. It has been pretty stupid that I have tried to open a discussion about how things will go and only slowly have I learnt that my questions have basically been in vain as most things had been settled already without me having the faintest idea about it...

I feel myself such a fool.

But I'll get over it.

[Nogrod]

Save filled.

Please Regin, tell me if there is something that needs changing.

Child: feel free to make Makdush bump into the tent.

[Regin Hardhammer]

Nogrod,

Thanks for handling Ishkur. Had a great time. Just back and very tired after a long car trip so I won't post tonight. I have one wording request on the post--very minor. I've sent it to you in a pm.

- Regin

[Child of the 7th Age]

Regin - Welcome back. Makdush is giving it to Ishkur. Please refrain from killing me. If you outline a plan for getting out of the camp, I think the Uruk will be game to go.

[Durelin]

I've made some simple edits to Khamir's history to include some of the Khamir-Beloan backstory Nogrod and I worked up. If [i]Pio[/b] or Child could replace it in his bio, I'd be very grateful.

-----------------------------------------------

POSTED TO CHARACTER BIO ~*~ Pio


History: A Southron, born just a few miles north of Umbar, Khamir did not desire to join Mordor, refusing to ever fight alongside anyone but his fellow men. He had no love for Gondor or any of the other peoples of Middle-earth, but he was fiercely loyal to his own people, and believed that becoming Sauron’s minions was the end to the Haradrim’s power and independence. Because he would not willingly join the ranks under the Dark Lord’s command, he was made a slave when he was sixteen years old. His own father was the one who handed him over as a supposed traitor. His younger friend Beloan was enslaved along with him, as he shared the same ideals and also tended to follow Khamir’s lead in those days. He and Beloan were made slaves and worked on the plantations for several years before the defeat of Sauron. After this defeat, the two were able to escape from the plantations, along with many others; but, unlike many others, they were never recaptured. They joined up with a few other ex-slaves, and working as a team (though not always in the best of terms), they were able to scrounge up enough food and water for them to survive, if very hungrily. Mostly they are forced to and choose to steal. After he was praised for his bravery when he went even to the Mountain to look for water, the group of ex-slaves grew until he became the undeclared leader of a full out gang that set up base in the southern range of the Ephel Dûath. They make regular missions to different plantations that remain under the charge of both Orcs and Men. Their last mission met with disaster, leaving their numbers lower than they had been in almost a year: fifteen. The dynamics of the group were a little different even before this catastrophe, with Beloan, who was always Khamir’s “right-hand man” becoming more and more of a second (and not necessarily at all secondary) leader, as his skills, charisma, and decision-making abilities have clearly matured further than Khamir’s likely ever will.

-----------------------------------------------

Thanks so much!

[Nogrod]

Durelin: that looks very good!

I'll try to come up with something of a version of Beloan's bio / history on the basis of your initial suggestion & our last discussions & this one, tomorrow (RL) as I get to sit on the computer with some time...

Regin: wording edit will be made in a moment so consider it done as you read this... Welcome back my friend in orcsery!

[Tevildo]

Save filled......

[Folwren]

Tevildo,

Good post...but you put Folwren in once instead of Athwen.

I'll hopefully fill my save before too long today.

-- Folwren

[Folwren]

Save filled! And good gracious that thing is long! I didn't realize I had such a lot to catch up on...

Anyhow, I am fully intending to write a post for Kwell sometime soon, too, so let's all hope that happens.

Let me know if all of that is alright.

-- Folwren

[Brinniel]

I apologize that I haven't been dedicating as much time as I would like to this RPG these last few weeks. I've been feeling a bit overwhelmed with school lately and frankly, I'm just plain exhausted.

Anyways, I am thinking I will just delete my save and repost something later, as what I am planning to write would probably better fit after all of those posts. Thank goodness it is a long weekend- I will definitely be writing something in the next few days, hopefully tomorrow. I won't actually delete that save just yet...not until I know for sure that I want to change its placement, which again, should be by tomorrow.

Hilde- if I recall correctly, Shae should be the one who actually still possesses Granny Brenna's stone. In my post, I was actually planning to give it back to Carl, but if I do end up deleting my save and reposting (which I probably will), then that could be a bit problematic...

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Yes, Brinniel, you are right, and I hadn't quite forgotten. That stone was the replica that Carl had made at the fireside after he had given the original to Shea. Thanks though, for keeping a watch over my own meandering mind.
I will see if I can't make the post a little bit clearer at lunch. (Might tack on a bit more to the end as well.)

You could go ahead and have Shea give the original back to Carl. I think it might be nice to have it show up after he tried to put the situation past him. I do wish Brenna hadn't died.

[Tevildo]

you put Folwren in once instead of Athwen.

Corrected

[Brinniel]

That stone was the replica that Carl had made at the fireside

Ah, yes...I had forgotten about that replica.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Folwren,

My save is filled. I asked Kwell to do something but he is also free to say something first (or not) if he wishes to.

*************

Everyone,

I suggested that all those who are "able bodied" gather around the campfire to discuss what's next. No rush. If you are in the middle of activities and exchanges, feel free to finish those up first. Others are free to drift in....

[Folwren]

Excellent, Child! I will writed a post sometime today or tomorrow, hopefully. I haven't decided if he's going to say something first...we'll have to see.

-- Folwren

[Regin Hardhammer]

Nogrod - It looks as if the men are beginning to plan so the orcs should probably get out of camp (not that we know what is happening). You can give it to Ishkur if you want for relying on Gwerr to keep his mouth closed.

Child - I had Makdush leave as you suggested.

- Regin

[Child of the 7th Age]

Folwren's latest post for Kwell is here at the end of the box. We both thought it made sense to put it before Durelin's mention of the message being distributed through the camp.

[Nogrod]

POSTED TO CHARACTER LIST ~*~ Pio

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Here is Beloan's bio & history. I hope Pio could insert this to a place where it belongs.

Durelin: I added one sentence to suggest a difference between Beloan's and Khamir's backgrounds. Otherwise it's in a same form than the last version...

---------------------

Name: Beloan

Age: 35

Gender: Male

Race: A child of a South-Gondorian father and a Southron mother

Weapons: Long knife / half-sword that he took from a slaver in a fight four years ago. It has a simple but beautiful slightly curved blade and it’s hilt is covered with weathered down leather. Rough but elegant and most importantly very efficient and easy to wield. He also has a roughish self-made bow of spruce and a quiver of arrows.

Appearance: Because of his mixed inheritance Beloan’s skin is orangeish-brown and quite peculiar. He has high cheekbones and a sharp nose as Gondorians do (although his nose is a pretty large one) but a round face and thick lips as the Southrons have. His eyes are dark brown, almost black. Even though the life at the slave-camp and the life after it has been hard his leanness can’t hide his strong build.

After escaping from the slave-camp he has not been too straight about his looks and only occasionally trims his beard cutting off the excess of it. His hair and beard have gotten hues of grey albeit his relatively young age.

He wears a loose woollen tunic with embroideries at the collar made by a woman he had a relationship in the slave-camp. She never made it to freedom and Beloan still wears her hairbands in his wrist to honour her memory.


Personality: A natural leader, charismatic, and though persuasive, not forceful. He has a great amount of patience, particularly when it comes to dealing with people. Because of his experiences in childhood he’s not confrontational and seems to prefer letting things happen only trying to move them to his wished direction indirectly. He’s not actively trying to secure a fate for himself. Beloan is a gentle man to friends, but ruthless to enemies, particularly due to his hard life.

Even though his whole life has been a continuous struggle he retains something like an open mind and tries to see every situation also as an opportunity to something better. That optimistic stance he has inherited from his father. He has been rarely loved in his life, but with the love of Khamir and a few others he knows the value of love and care and tries to spread them around in this grim world.

History: Beloan was born in a small village by the coast near Pelargir. His father Delchar owned a little ship and made his living by trading along the coastline as far as up to Dol Amroth and down to Umbar. From one of his travels to the south he brought with him a young Southron slave named Zuabwhan. Eventually Beloan was to be born from her and not from Delchar’s wife Zinial.

Even though Zinial insisted that the slave and the newborn should be out from their household, Delchar never gave in to the demands of his wife. The athmosphere in the family got so tense that in the end Delchar had to take Zuabwhan and Beloan with to his travels as he didn’t dare to leave them alone with Zinial and the villagers backing her.

Delchar died in an accident when Beloan was only 11-years old. After Delchar’s death Zinial drove Zuabwhan and Beloan out from her home and they fled back to south to the village where Zuabwhan had been born just north of Umbar. Nothing seemed to be easy to them as back there Zuabwhan was called a Gondorian whore and both of them were despised.

During his childhood Beloan had learned a considerable amount of skills while following his father. So he knew how to count and write, how to keep accounts, a thing or two about logistics, seafaring and shipping, haggling, of relative value of things etc.

Although people generally scorned Zuabwhan and her son the village-traders soon realised Beloan’s potential and started hiring him to little tasks here and there so that soon he was able to provide income to them both. Had the war not come Beloan might have had a bright future in trade.

In the village he befriended himself with a boy two years older than him called Khamir. They were both strong individuals who had had to struggle for their place in this world from very early age on, although from very different backgrounds, and they recognised that strength in each other quite immediately. So despite the initial contempt of other boys they got to be close friends and soon became the kings of the gang: Khamir leading with his charisma and idealism, Beloan aiding him with his wits and skills.

When the war was becoming imminent the two boys and their gang swore that they would not fight for Mordor or for Gondor but only for their friends and kinsmen. The Haradrim who passed the village on their way to Mordor captured most of them from a tip of Khamir’s father and were taken to a slave camp in Mordor.

The escape from the slave-camp they designed and orchestrated together. Like in the early years, Beloan still is more the brains and Khamir more the brawns, but each is a good combination of the two. Since Khamir has of late become incapable as a leader, Beloan has somewhat filled his place.