Melkor/Arda Marred or Remade

[Maédhros]

Melkor Marred or Remade

From Morgoth’s Ring: Myths Transformed:

Melkor must be made far more powerful in original nature (cf. 'Finrod and Andreth'). The greatest power under Eru (sc. the greatest created power). (He was to make/ devise / begin; Manwë (a little less great) was to improve, carry out, complete.)

I was always under the impression that Melkor was the evil guy, that wanted to conquer all of Arda for himself, and that he deviated from his original purpose that was for him to be the Master architect of Arda.
Certainly, in the making of Arda, if Melkor would have added his power in harmony with the other Valar, it would have been a better Arda for sure, yet he became evil and moved from his Valar brethren.
But you know what, perhaps he did exactly what he was meant to do, make/devise/begin.

Melkor 'incarnated' himself (as Morgoth) permanently. He did this so as to control the hroa, the 'flesh' or physical matter of Arda. He attempted to identify himself with it. A vaster and more perilous, procedure, though of similar sort to the operations of Sauron with the Rings. Thus, outside the Blessed Realm, all 'matter' was likely to have a 'Melkor ingredient', and those who had bodies, nourished by the hroa of Arda, had as it were a tendency, small or great, towards Melkor: they were none of them wholly free of him in their incarnate form, and their bodies had an effect upon their spirits.
But in this way Morgoth lost (or exchanged, or transmuted) the greater part of his original 'angelic' powers, of mind and spirit, while gaining a terrible grip upon the physical world. For this reason he had to be fought, mainly by physical force, and enormous material ruin was a probable consequence of any direct combat with him, victorious or otherwise.

Melkor, unlike the other Valar, spent a great deal of his “angelic powers” in Arda. If our point of view, is that the creation ended with Arda Marred, then yes, Melkor did fail in his purpose, but if the creation ended with Arda Remade, then Melkor did the will of Ilúvater perfectly. Arda Remade is greater than what Arda Unmarred would have been.

From The Lost Road and other Writtings:

§31 Thus spake Mandos in prophecy, when the Gods sat in judgement in Valinor, and the rumour of his words was whispered among all the Elves of the West. When the world is old and the Powers grow weary, then Morgoth, seeing that the guard sleepeth, shall come back through the Door of Night out of the Timeless Void; and he shall destroy the Sun and Moon. But Eärendel shall descend upon him as a white and searing flame and drive him from the airs. Then shall the Last Battle be gathered on the fields of Valinor. In that day Tulkas shall strive with Morgoth, and on his right hand shall be Fionwë, and on his left Túrin Turambar, son of Húrin, coming from the halls of Mandos; and the black sword of Túrin shall deal unto Morgoth his death and final end; and so shall the children of Húrin and all Men be avenged.
§32 Thereafter shall Earth be broken and re-made, and the Silmarils shall be recovered out of Air and Earth and Sea; for Eärendel shall descend and surrender that flame which he hath had in keeping. Then Fëanor shall take the Three Jewels and bear them to Yavanna Palúrien; and she will break them and with their fire rekindle the Two Trees, and a great light shall come forth. And the Mountains of Valinor shall be levelled, so that the Light shall go out over all the world. In that light the Gods will grow young again, and the Elves awake and all their dead arise, and the purpose of Ilúvatar be fulfilled concerning them.

Remember, Morgoth in the end was defeated, and Arda was remade, does that means also that Melkor was remade and he became as righteous as in his beginnings?


From The Book of Lost Tales I: The Music of the Ainur

Then said Ilúvatar: “Mighty are the Ainur, and glorious, and among them is Melko the most powerful in knowledge; but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Ilúvatar, those things that ye have sung and played, lo! I have caused to be -- not in the musics that ye make in the heavenly regions, as a joy to me and a play unto yourselves, alone, but rather to have shape and reality even as have ye Ainur, whom I have made to share in the reality of Ilúvatar myself. Maybe I shall love these things that come of my song even as I love the Ainur who are of my thought,4 and maybe more. Thou Melko shalt see that no theme can be played save it come in the end of Ilúvatar’s self, nor can any alter the music in Ilúvatar’s despite. He that attempts this finds himself in the end but aiding me in devising a thing of still greater grandeur and more complex wonder: -- for lo! Through Melko have terror as fire, and sorrow like dark waters, wrath like thunder, and evil as far from my light as the depths of the uttermost of the dark places, come into the design that I laid before you. Through him has pain and misery been made in the clash of overwhelming musics; and with confusion of sound have cruelty, and ravening, and darkness, loathly mire and all putrescence of thought or thing, foul mists and violent flame, cold without mercy, been born, and death without hope. Yet is this through him and not by him; and he shall see, and ye all likewise, and even shall those beings, who must now dwell among his evil and endure through Melko misery and sorrow, terror and wickedness, declare in the end that it redoundeth only to my great glory, and doth but make the theme more worth the hearing, Life more worth the living, and the World so much the more wonderful and marvellous, that of all the deeds of Ilúvatar it shall be called his mightiest and his loveliest.”

And you know what, he did exactly what Ilúvatar had wanted.

[Saurreg]

Hurrah! Finally, a thought provoking thread!

On Morgoth's Powers

Melkor was originally percieved as the most powerful of the Ainur because he had a) a bit of every one of the Valar's powers and b) unlike the valars that could only understand some concepts of thought that Illuvatar planted in them, Melkor knew evil, fear and perhaps even what was good and pure. So the basis of Melkor's greatness was the nature of his powers and his innate knowledge.

However was he really that powerful? From the Silmarillion I always thought that Melkor was a jack of all trades but master of none. He could make, enchant and fightetc etc, but in each field he was not greater than the respective vala of which that talent was attributed to. He could never master the elements like Manwe or Ulmo, shape and create like Aule and Varda nor could he fight or hunt as well as Orome and Tulkas. He was versatile but I think that was the only advantage he had over the individual valars.

So is greatness measured by the innate ability of an individual or by deeds?

On Transformation

I do not really agree with Tolkien on the fact that by transforming one's self into flesh and bone, an Ainur would have greater power over the physical world. The world is made out of various elements in which most are not even part of the basic built-up of the living carbon-based body. I word I'm looking for here is linkage - I tend to think that if you transform into something, having the basic biological compatibility to an element you wish to control would help (why we are able to ingest small amounts of iron and still be healthy but Sulphur and heavy metals are a no go eg.).

Unless Morgoth's only aim was to control other living carbon-based lifeforms alone, I think he would have been better of in the "incorporeal" form. After all it would seem that the Valars had greater control and displays of power in a non-permanent body.

On Morgoth's Role in the Greater Plan

As Illuvatar stated itself, all sources of power were from him alone and those who thought otherwise were only deluding themselves. I should suppose the Morgoth's role was very similar to those of Loki, Surtur, the giants of Jotum - to lead to the creation of a new world. Of course Morgoth would not know but then who can understand the intents of an ominipotent deity?

[Thinlómien]

We can surely say that Melkor was essential for Arda, most of the beautiful things there ever came to be and remaking of it. Without him, much would have been different.

Originally Posted by Saurreg

On Morgoth's Role in the Greater Plan
As Illuvatar stated itself, all sources of power were from him alone and those who thought otherwise were only deluding themselves. I should suppose the Morgoth's role was very similar to those of Loki, Surtur, the giants of Jotum - to lead to the creation of a new world. Of course Morgoth would not know but then who can understand the intents of an ominipotent deity?

I very much agree with this.

I would like to compare Melkor to Judas in a way. They both became bad guys and did horrible deeds, because it was part of the big god's plan, and both suffered from fulfilling the part of the evil guy, though the part was essential: if not them , someone else would have made the evil deeds.

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I would like to compare Melkor to Judas in a way. They both became bad guys and did horrible deeds, because it was part of the big god's plan, and both suffered from fulfilling the part of the evil guy, though the part was essential: if not them , someone else would have made the evil deeds.

Hm, I don't agree with the suffering part, at least not for Melkor. We know of only one time he was phisically hurt, when fighting Fingolfin and being scarred by mighty Thorondor. He was two times chained, once imprisoned and at last executed by Mandos. But I don't think he received any "unhuman" treatment from his enemies, and if anything, he suffered foremost and mostly at ego level, acknowledging his actual place in the world. In the end, I don't think he had one bit of taste of what he did to his own victims.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Raynor

Hm, I don't agree with the suffering part, at least not for Melkor. We know of only one time he was phisically hurt, when fighting Fingolfin and being scarred by mighty Thorondor. He was two times chained, once imprisoned and at last executed by Mandos. But I don't think he received any "unhuman" treatment from his enemies, and if anything, he suffered foremost and mostly at ego level, acknowledging his actual place in the world. In the end, I don't think he had one bit of taste of what he did to his own victims.

I partly agree. It is true that he did not suffer as much as his victims did, but he did suffer. (Of course we can always argue, was his suffering justified, but I was trying to avoid that argument... )

[Saurreg]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I partly agree. It is true that he did not suffer as much as his victims did, but he did suffer. (Of course we can always argue, was his suffering justified, but I was trying to avoid that argument... )

When you mentioned suffering, were you by chance suggesting that Morgoth could not help but be evil because that was Illuvatar's plans for him - to play the villain in a cosmic ballad so that a new and better world could be made?

In that case his would be the saddest story of them all.

[Macalaure]

Thus even as Eru spoke to us shall beauty not before conceived be brought into Eä, and evil yet be good to have been.'
But Mandos said: 'And yet remain evil. To me shall Fëanor come soon.'

~ Of the Sun and Moon and the Hiding of Valinor

This passage is not about Melkor, but I think Manwë's and Mandos' points apply to him as well. Maybe Eru had Melkor's rebellion and fall to evil in mind when he 'created' him. But Eru also devised him with a free will. Melkor didn't have to fall to evil, he could have chosen otherwise. So even if Eru foresaw Melkor's course, it doesn't alter Melkor's responsibility for his deeds. Though good came from them, they themselves remain evil.
I wonder how Eä would have been like if Melkor had not become evil. What deeds to the glory of Ilúvatar would he have been able to accomplish? What could 'He who arises in Might' have added to the whole? I think we will agree that, regardless, it would have been a much more perfect and pure world - and consequently incredibly dull.

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Melkor didn't have to fall to evil, he could have chosen otherwise.

I disagree:

Originally Posted by Manuscript A, Of the severance of marriage, Later Quenta Silmarillion, HoME X

For Eru is Lord of All, and moveth all the devices of his creatures, even the malice of the Marrer, in his final purposes, but he doth not of his prime motion impose grief upon them.

Originally Posted by Letter #200

Sauron had been attached to the greatest, Melkor, who ultimately became the inevitable Rebel and self-worshipper of mythologies that begin with a transcendent unique Creator.

Originally Posted by Letter #153

Free Will is derivative, and is.'. only operative within provided circumstances; but in order that it may exist, it is necessary that the Author should guarantee it, whatever betides : sc. when it is 'against His Will', as we say, at any rate as it appears on a finite view.

Originally Posted by Note 7, Atrabeth Finrod ah Andreth, HoME X

[Eru] must as Author always remain 'outside' the Drama, even though that Drama depends on His design and His will for its beginning and continuance, in every detail and moment.

I believe that the conclusion, in the light of these arguments, is that Eru meant for Melkor to 'fall'; all in all, I don't think Melkor had that a bad ride , well, unless we count his temporary end on Arda.

[Macalaure]

It amazes me how you are always able to come up with so many quotes in such a short time.

But if Melkor had no chance but to fall to evil, we cannot hold him responsible for it, at least not by the standards of justice that we nowadays apply. His punishment was unjustified and even though he had some good times, I would agree that his story is the saddest of all.
The question that arises is 'Whom do we hold responsible for evil, now?'. (I just realized that it maybe just shows how pitiful humans are that they always have to blame somebody for what they call 'evil') If we want to blame somebody, we are left with no other candidate than Eru himself. Eru of course would not be evil, he would combine both good and evil in himself. Somewhere (there you have it ), I think, is written, that evil in Eä is defined as a revolt against the will of Eru. How can this work if evil was in the will of Eru?

[Raynor]

we cannot hold him responsible for it,

Well, not for the existence of the moral category of evil, I believe that predated his creation; good and evil existed prior to him - he just made increasingly evil choices and dedicated his immense power (he _was_ second to Eru only) to the perpetuation of evil. He had free will, he exercised it, just like the other ainur; you can't have free will, morally speaking, without being able to chose between good and bad - therefore these must exist prior to the choice itself.

Some<img class="inlineimg" title="roll eyes (sarcastic)" alt="" style="display: none;" border="0">where (there you have it ), I think, is written, that evil in Eä is defined as a revolt against the will of Eru.

Melkor is called several times the rebel, as equivalent, or near the term, diabolus. Even if I can't pinpoint a specific quote, I think it is common sense that those who obey divine laws are good and those that don't are evil. In letter #183, Tolkien states that "a judge must assign right and wrong according to principles which he holds valid in all cases", in refference to Eru; furthermore, in Myths Transformed, it is said that "every finite creature must have some weakness: that is some inadequacy to deal with some situations. It is not sinful when not willed, and when the creature does his best (even if it is not what should be done) as he sees it - with the conscious intent of serving Eru." So I agree with your point.

How can this work if evil was in the will of Eru?

Well, the most often reply is that you can't have good without evil; again, in Myths Transformed it is said that the gift of the imperishable flame to Varda from Eru is not without peril:

Nonetheless this gift of Iluvatar to the Valar has its own peril, as have all his free gifts: which is in the end no more than to say that they play a part in the Great Tale so that it may be complete; for without peril they would be without power, and the giving would be void.

Catholic Christianity also has an interesting concept: felix culpa, the happy sin, the fortunate fall - the happy sin that has gained humankind a wonderful saviour: "O felix culpa quae talem et tantum meruit habere redemptorem / O blessed sin which which received as its reward so great and so good a redeemer". According to the Atrabeth, Eru himself will enter creation and heal it.

[Saurreg]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

The question that arises is 'Whom do we hold responsible for evil, now?'. (I just realized that it maybe just shows how pitiful humans are that they always have to blame somebody for what they call 'evil') If we want to blame somebody, we are left with no other candidate than Eru himself. Eru of course would not be evil, he would combine both good and evil in himself. Somewhere (there you have it ), I think, is written, that evil in Eä is defined as a revolt against the will of Eru. How can this work if evil was in the will of Eru?

My theory is that evil and the subsequent suffering it brought about was crucial in Eru's creation of a new and much better world. By being challenged, living things would be forced to adapt and evolve and in turn become greater than they started out in the beginning.

As for why a forced evolution was needed, then I do not know. Perhaps Eru wanted the inhabitants of the new world to be worthy of inheritance of such a gift and remember well the sacrifice they has been paid for its inception, or it could be a way to strengthen them for the challenges that await them in that new world.