WWJ VIII ~ Things That Go "Quack" In The Night

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Btw. I guess, your insecurity in those most important days just somehow came through ...

I wouldn't say that I was insecure. I was actually more confident once I thought I had found my Duck, as it gave me some purpose to my posts. Even though I was wrong ...

And I was never fully confident at the end that Kath was the final Duck. I just had to stick with what I thought and waddle with it.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

I wouldn't say that I was insecure. I was actually more confident once I thought I had found my Duck, as it gave me some purpose to my posts. Even though I was wrong ...

Well, whatever it was. You just seemed more trustful to me on those days... On the first days I suspected you a lot - and so on the last days. But in the middle, I was quite confident... or just ignored you as a threat. As I've said before: my bad!

And I must confess that in the end your defence over Kath partly influenced my judgement on her - and that way turned me to look at Morm. What would have happened, if I had decided otherwise (as I had promised that morning), and had taken a closer look at Kath, and not Morm? She really flew under my radar almost all the game...

[Roa_Aoife]

Well, that was the most interesting read I've had in awhile. I do apologize for having to drop out, but all the same, everyone did a really great job. We had a great group of really intelligent players. I have to say, the day after my departure, when I read everyone's suspicion of Glirdan, I was pretty shocked. I was yelling, "For heaven's sake, he gave you a Duck! What more do you want from him? If he were a Duck or a Goose, he would have made up a dream! Duh!"

Ang, don't feel bad. I've yet to play a game with a hunter where the hunter didn't kill the seer. In fact, I've almost decided that that's the true role of the hunter, and nothing else.

Oh, Nogrod, I was cheering for you this time. I kept saying, "Come on, Nogrod, you can spot the discrepencies, I know you can." I was thinking that you'd jump on it and tear it to pieces. You almost did too.

Valier, your instincts are really amazing. You almost had all the Ducks. You even picked up the Two Owls deal.

Kath, that was a brilliant display of luck and confidence working together. You were so cool about everything that I even started to doubt the case against you, and by that point I knew who you were!

Lote, good work for your first game. I hope next time you can get more involved and post a bit more.

Jenny, I never would have picked you. You are quite ferocious in your attacks. Always a pleasure.

Ah, Nilp, I won't lie- I don't like your Day 1 style. In fact, I hate it. However, I sincerely hope that in the next game we play together you live past Day 1 so I can see that awesome wit of yours put to work.

Saucie, I finally get to play a game with you, and I had to cut out! Ah, well. You are truly the force your reputation says you are. I look forward to the next game.

(Not-)Cailin, what a wonderful solution you came up with. Cailin was as good as always while she was in, and I hope NC joins up so he can play again as well. You did a great job picking things up quickly, and you were highly perceptive.

Spawn, being picked on Night 1 by the seer is the worst possible luck a Wolf can have. Even so, you did a great job. Those analysis were a great ploy.

Mith, you panicked a bit the first and second day, but after that you calmed down and became the reasonable thoughtful player I know you to be. Despite the confusion of two owls, you regained your head and even figured out what was going on. Kudos!

Morm, it's a shame people weren't listening to you. I had hoped you would be able to sway the remaining villagers, but you did well despite that.

Glirdan- I believed you! Unfortunately you were victimized by a terrible Goose, a lot of confusion from two owls, and people siding with others over previous dealings. Your reaction was perfectly understandable given the circumstances. I hope things get better for you.

Lalaith, I had no idea you had a special role. You just looked like a regular ordo to me, which I guess it what you're supposed to do. Great Job!

Elu, computer troubles are a terrible thing. I'm glad you got it fixed now.

Sleepy, you played well up until your departure. Looking forward to our marriage in the next game!

And of course, Diamond. Those were great death scenes! Two out of two little girls approve! I enjoyed reading them immensly. This was a great idea for a game. Such a fun twist!

[Hookbill the Goomba]

By request of Diamond...

Award pictures curtsy of Hookbill photo shopping INC.
Need a photo mangled? Call Hookbill now!

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Kath, you are our hero! Although, I knew you could do it. That's why I always supect you on Day 3 by latest if I'm an Ordinary.

I had a strange feeling of deja vu in this game. Once again, Mith was a gifted who made the trio's life more difficult, Sauce was the Cobbler (this time we let you live past Night 2, though!) and I was a hapless miscreant.

This is the third time in a row when I didn't live to see Day 3. This would have been a wonderful game to play... (Thanks a lot, Glirdy! ) Still, it was fun as long as it lasted, and the award is very pretty. As I thought, Diamond was a great mod, and my death was absolutely horrible (which is, of course, a compliment).

I guessed that Sauce is the Goose since he continued pursuing Mith with me. Also, I suspected that he would have gone after Kath had he been innocent. It was a great performance and very enjoyable to read.

Oh, and Valier, your instincts are scary! You voted for Nilp on Day 1, you were suspicious of me already before Glirdy's revelation on Day 2, you voted for Jenny on Day 3 and you voted for Kath on Day 5. Very nice!

[Lalaith]

Regarding Ang's suggestion of posting our correspondence, I too have kept most of our chat, and can collate/edit it for publication if anyone is interested. (We also sent a few PMs after we were both dead, speculating on duckish identities and the outcome of the game.)

Any ducks care to do the same?

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

I too have kept most of our chat, and can collate/edit it for publication if anyone is interested.

Please, do. It would be nice to read them.

Any ducks care to do the same?

Well, Nilp didn't make it on Night 1, on Night 2 Jenny and I didn't get to talk due to my full inbox and by Night 3 I was already choked on spiders, but I have saved the PMs Kath and I exchanged during Nights 1 and 2.

Kath and Jenny, do you have any PMs? I'd be interested to read them, too.

[Kath]

I'm afraid I didn't save any PMs this time no, though I don't know about Jenny. Still, you lot go yourselves killed so early we barely had time to communicate anyway!

Sauce, you really didn't get that I was the Duck? I felt so obvious!

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Originally Posted by Kath

I'm afraid I didn't save any PMs this time no, though I don't know about Jenny. Still, you lot go yourselves killed so early we barely had time to communicate anyway!

Yeah...

Well, I'll post the PMs from Night 1 and 2 then.


Night 1:

spawn: Speaking of werewolfing - or wereducking... can I believe my luck! I'm thrilled to get to terrorize the village with you and Nilp.

Kath: I know! I get the most insane person and the most rational person to work with. Should be interesting. Speaking of that, we're allowed to start plotting now aren't we?

spawn: It's probably a bit hard to make any masterplans yet. Maybe we should play Day 1 in a same way as usual ie. even if one of us does something suspicious, we can point it out... normal innocent stuff. Oh, and the most important thing is to have fun.

Kath: That sounds like a very good plan. Let's just hope people go for the usual plan of thinking you innocent and thinking Nilp too insane to kill. It may serve us well.


Night 2:

Kath: Yes that did go rather badly, and now we've lost Nilp! I'd say going after Mith tomorrow would be a good idea. I can pick up on that statistic thing again, and her defensive overreactions to everything.

The one person I thought might be the Owl was Jenny for this sentence:

(truly the largest I have ever overseen)

spawn: That's a good find. Also, her analyses can be scary, too. I'll go rereading her posts, but she could be one option. Do you think she might be acting Owlishly on purpose, though?

Kath: Well I was wondering about that, I think Nogrod said something about doing that to protect the real Owl from the Ducks (and doesn't saying that make you feel so silly!) and she has supported him over Roa most of the Day so perhaps.

Kath: The only person I would really advocate killing right now other than that [Jenny] would be Sauce. We both know what a dangerous player he is, so basically we have a choice between killing him now so there is no way he can work out that it's us or we can leave him for a few days and hope he doesn't figure that it's us and brings suspicion on itself.

spawn: I don't know about Sauce. He might be protected tonight... Also, he doesn't usually suspect us very early on.

Kath: This is true, and right now he thinks you innocent. Ok, we'll leave him for toNight.

Kath: Still, taking down someone who voted Nilp might be an idea. But who?

spawn: Sleepy? He didn't say much, so it doesn't leave many clues. Lote is a newcomer, it would be nice to let her play for a while and Valier might be protected because of her vote.

Kath: Sleepy's an odd one, he tends to bring suspicion on himself very quickly due to the way he plays. But if we really want to kill a Nilp voter then I would choose him over the others.

spawn: I've been working on a rather thorough case against Mith. I try to post it early tomorrow. I've also analysed Glirdan, Valier and Elu. I hope tomorrow goes more smoothly.

Kath: Ok, I'll leave that to you then. Your analyses are always helpful, and usually cause people to trust you. We need someone who will be trusted til the end!

spawn: We can see how Mith reacts to my case in the first place, but you questioned her pretty strongly yesterday, so go ahead and ask her for an explanation if you feel like doing it. If we attack her too strongly, though, I think Sauce won't be going after her so much anymore. I think he likes to muse things over by himself and too fierce accusations would feel as though we were swaying him.

Kath: Well, if you stick with your usual analysis style and I concentrate on the weirdness of her using statistics we might be ok as it will be an attack from two different fronts. But yes if he starts to stop suspecting her we might want to tone it down a bit.

spawn: Hmm, Jenny suspected Roa, Mith and Sleepy the most. I don't know if killing her will help or hinder our attempt to get rid of Mith. She didn't say much about either of us, but seemed to regard us as mostly decent villagers. I think she'd make a good snack.

Kath: Well, did she suspect her a lot? If not we should be ok killing her.

spawn: All she said was: "My suspicions right now fall mostly on Roa, Mith, and Sleepy" and "Mith because she didn't really make the logical sense today she usually does." She voted for Sleepy

Kath: Right that's ok then. That's not major suspicion.

spawn: So, is it going to be Jenny? Do you have any last ideas about what we shall do tomorrow, or who would be a better kill?

Kath: I think she's our best shot toNight. I can't see a better kill, and she tends to avoid suspicion so I think it would be a good thing.


There. I had to change the order of the PMs a bit to make it easier to read, but that's about all we talked. The rest is history.

[JennyHallu]

Sorry didn't save anything...

[Kath]

Ah well, after even Jenny had died all my PMs consisted of were fears that I would be dead the next Day and various scrounged up reasons for why I should or shouldn't kill this or that person.

If anyone really wants to know how they died by my beak I can try to remember!

[Diamond18]

Thanks, spawn, for the PM's. Interesting read -- I had been wondering just why you chose Jenny. Good thing for you that you didn't nix SpM, eh?

Originally Posted by spawn

Well, Nilp didn't make it on Night 1,

Yes, which is why this post by Kath on Day 1 really cracked me up:

Ah I see Nilp has arrived!

I kept expecting someone to read something into that, but no one did.

[Nogrod]

Thanks Spawn, nice read!

[Lalaith]

As Ang and I were both in the same timezone, and we could PM day and night, we produced *rather* a lot of material between us...I've tried to edit it down as much as poss. Just as well I was killed on Night Three, really....
Here is the correspondence for Night One and Day One. More to follow.
Night One:
Lalaith: Interesting twist of Diamond's, not revealing the role of the gifted after death. I feel for the poor Seer, s/he's going to have to come out as soon as they dream a Duck, as they can't leave any post-mortem hints.
Anguirel: Ah, this is perfect. Never been a Hunter before and I'm terribly excited…
I think you'll find Rangering rather fun. I certainly did. I like anticipating schemes and foiling evil plots even more than enacting them...
Now; when the Day starts I don't think it'll be that unwise for us to have quite a lot of conversation, if tinged with suspicion. After all, we usually do. Just get them thinking it's business as usual. We're also very lucky to be in precisely the same timezone...
As for Nightly choices-shall we decide them through mutual consultation or act as free agents? Or some kind of compromise?
PMing in the Day is going to be a gift. But like you I don't like the sound of the mysterious deaths. A dead Goose could pose as a dead Owl by sprinkling in hints. Ulp. Tricky.
But we have our own information on our side, so we might be able to tell when people are defending or attacking us with a false note. Then one of us can go for them for a completely different reason...
Ranger/Hunter pairs are usually quickly spotted by the wolves. But I think we might just prove an exception.
Anguirel Papageno, called "the Hawk

Lalaith: I think consultation, and compromise if we can, would be my preference for the Night choices. I'm very glad to have someone to bounce off during the decision-making process. Poor Spawn had to put up with the most dreadful screeds from me during the Shamville game (although that was partly of course due to the confusion caused by a certain Hunter-impersonating Fool) to which of course she could only make non-committal responses.

And yes, the usual banter should be maintained. I just hope you don't get yourself killed by the wolves early....they seem to like your taste....be careful!
Anguirel: good luck for tomorrow... Feel free to pick "fights" with my early posts though, and then I can "defend" them when I return.
Lal: Here's an early hunch: I don't think Diamond picked roles at random. So the Ducks might include some of the more interesting players. I'm looking at That Cailin, for starters.

Day One, the game has begun:

Anguirel: My main misgiving this morning...
Look at morm's first post. It seems to me he's asking to be guarded...
Now, why?
An unsubtle Owl?
A Duck or Goose leading us astray?
Or a selfish, canny villager?
Lal: Morm was a bit odd I agree. Goosey, even.
What about Cailin's comment about you and spawn, I kind of understood what she meant, but still....
Anguirel: Saucie too apparently thinks Morm the Goose...
You know what, does Mith give you a rather bad feeling, or just me? She's non-committal and normal and...statistical. And that comment about Hawk and Nightingale being in league...
I'm going to keep that suspicion to myself for a bit, but it struck me hard...
Lalaith: You're right… this Roa/Nogrod squabble does remind me of phantom/Eomer in WWIV, when of course both turned out to be innocent. Mith...well, last game I played in with her, she started arguing right away, got lynched first day and was in fact a wolf. Maybe she's being cautious because she doesn't want to get lynched again, but that doesn't mean she isn't a wolf.
PS. Nilp wasn't invisible this morning and I saw him PMing. I got a bit excited about that but of course now Diamond has confirmed Ducks can't PM during the Day.
Papageno: I'm leaning towards voting for Kath, a fairly neutral option, though am still tempted to vote morm...what about you?
Lalaith: I don't know who to vote for yet Protecting you seems to me as good an option as any:
1. You are one of those at risk of being killed, as Cailin so helpfully pointed out.
2. I know you are innocent.
3. I'd like to still be able to talk to you tomorrow...
Who are you going to hunt tonight? If, Eru forbid, you get lynched toDay, you may want to take someone with you.
Ang: Excellent point. Well, I'll go for Cailin now...she's not my top suspect but it's quite traditional...for my serious pick tomorrow we'll consult...

[Lalaith]

Nilp Fowlagund has been successfully lynched.
Anguirel: It's excellent, of course, but I may be under suspicion for defending Nilp...on the plus side though, I think that means I'm unlikely to be attacked tonight...
Lal: what about Spawn? I do remember her as a wolf once, getting found out on the first day, maybe wolfishness sits uneasily with her. I'm surprised about her asking about wolf PMs. She normally knows the rules better than anyone, and she herself has found it suspicious when others ask/bring up such things. (I remember in the last game, I reminded everyone about wolves PMing in the day, she and elempi were seers and in the post-game PMs published, she flagged it as a suspicious comment.)
Do you think Diamond would make those two wolves together?
Some more thoughts:
Mith - very defensive. But then again, she can be.. We should watch her closely.
Saucie - just making too much damn sense. Again, watch him like the hawk you are.
Cailin - she thinks highly of us which is obviously gratifying but we mustn't let flattery lull us into a false sense of security.
Jenny makes sense, I've not played with her before but she feels reasonably innocent to me. You've had more experience here...(NB, at this point Jenny was still innocent!)
Morm, Kath - I know we were suspicious of them at first and by the end of the Day, I was still wondering about them. Did you see Morm's comment about his grandmother - ie "i am little red riding hood, not the wolf"?
Roa and Nogrod - I find their rowing difficult to deal with but I realise that doesn't actually make them guilty.
Valier, Sleepy, Glirdan, Elu and Lote haven’t been especially helpful today and one of them may well be a duck. Not Lote, actually, I refuse to believe a young newbie would be so cunning as to vote for a fellow duck straight out like that. (of course, big sis wilwa might be advising her)
Valier of course made the decisive vote against Nilp which should clear her, but she's probably smart enough to do that even as a Duck.
Those who didn't vote - why? Nogrod's alarm probably didn't go off, maybe spawn also thought she'd wake up early and didn't. Elu and Glirdan were probably just preoccupied.
Some thoughts about the Hunter role: I found it difficult, when I was the Hunter, to reconcile my wish to survive with the fact that if I didn't die my gift was useless. Also, I was terrified of killing the wrong person.
How do you plan to play it? Will you try to survive regardless or will you try to die at some point?
Anguirel: This is the fun bit. We think like wereducks, and anticipate their actions, without the moral compromise and stress of having to be them!
I'll approach your suspects and points one by one :
I don't yet particularly distrust spawn yet. A little hypocrisy perhaps in her question about PMs, as you say, but I feel there's more idleness than intrigue, which I can sympathise with.
On the other hand, it seems to me that Mith rather over-eggs the anti-spawn case over the PMs question. I also agree with Kath's worry about her statistical stuff, as you know. It seems unlike her. I strongly suspect Mith and may Hunt her tonight.
Saucie-well, I agree with you. I was contorting my self to find a proper weak spot. I can't find any grounds for suspicion yet really.
I still slightly suspect Cailin although not strongly. Still I no longer take her first words as a threat.
I think Jenny might be the Owl. I can't see many other explanations for her low profile.
Kath is no longer worrying me due to her later contributions. And though Jenny picked up the Little Red Riding Hood aspect I think it's a stretch too far...morm doesn't really work like that. Remember his odd request to hire protection at the beginning though? And his flawed attempt to make us wary of Owl-hoots? Hmm.
I genuinely do suspect Roa a bit-because of the rapidity with which she moved from defending to attacking Nogrod fiercely on the Owl point. The likelihood is though that they're both innocent.
Not much to say about the quiet ones, except that when we were wolves together, I sort of tutored Valier in the paths of unrighteousness, and I pulled the same trick she might have done today-needlessly killing our fellow wolf to strengthen my cred. So I wouldn't be that surprised if she's taken up that habit.
Now, my approach to the Hawk role-I can explain best by quoting Hector. "No man shall send me down to Hades before my time." I intend to die, but in the late stages if possible when I have a much more certain bead on a wolf than I do now.

This means I may ask you to guard me sometimes, but not, I think, tonight, as I don't see there's a real likelihood I'll be attacked. You may perhaps think differently, but I think my defence of Nilp might prove fortunate.

Any Owl-hinters, do you think? I think morm might be one, but I doubt his veracity seriously. Still, I think you should either take him at his word and guard him, or guard one of the most high-profile players, like Saucie, who might be at risk if Mith is a wolf, having also contributed to Nilp's fall.
What do you think?
Lalaith: One other thing - I think Ducks will be much less concerned about finding the seer than they normally are. So I think protecting helpful players, rather than possible seers, is the way forward for me.
Lal: another question - why, if Mith is a wolf, would she try to get a high-profile player like spawn lynched on the first day? If she's worried about spawn, she could kill her at night, couldn't she? It's highly unlikely that a spawn bandwaggon would succeed on the first day...much better to go for a low-level ord.
Anguirel: Because it's what she'd do were she not a duck? Because spawn is an unusually suspicious-looking candidate at the moment? The two combine to in principle make it look like both a brave and a sensible vote-but not so sensible that spawn will actually be pushed into the lead.
I don't think Mith was expecting or hoping spawn would be lynched-a reliable wolf tactic is to strongly attack someone who's well defended and will probably not be lynched-they then sidestep all blame for deaths that follow.
I agree with you about Owls...not so much that the ducks won't try to get them, but that, bar chance, they won't be able to get them, due to the reticence of the Owl on hints...so that means that they are likely to attack whoever they think is being most helpful, or has the best potential, to the village.
This is where you have to ask: as a duck, who would you go for? You can even add: as a duck with Nilp, your fellow duck, recently outed, who would you go for? And who would you think the Nightingale would guard? Where would you feint? etc.
Think about it and try and sketch out a picture, and I'll do the same. You can of course insist on guarding me if that truly seems the best choice. Maybe it's cowardice as the Night draws on, but I'm starting to think about it myself!
Oh, and were you the Hunter, would you go for Spawn? Saucie? Mith? Cailin?
Mith and Roa are leading for me at the moment I think...arrrgh...
Lalaith: You've put me to rights about the Mith/spawn thing, thank you. (at least for now)
So, who voted for Nilp?
Other than le canard soi-meme, it was Valier, Lote and Sleepy. If any of those are the Owl, I'm a Dutchman.
You know, I'm damn glad I didn't vote for Nilp, as I nearly did, or they might have had me out for Minerva's familiar. As it is, I think I might be all right.
I do think protecting you tonight would get us both off the hook. It's a good option for first night, because neither of us really have that much to go on. Of course might regret it tomorrow if you look to be in more danger. Oh, I don't know. Maybe we should go back to plan A, where you hunt Mith/Roa and I protect, I think, Saucie.
You decide.
Anguirel: Okay. Cowardice has won, and I'd rather strike my Pyrrhic blow tomorrow night than tonight. I just don't have enough information yet.
Please protect me after all-which makes my target academic. I'll hunt morm tonight just for the principle of the thing...
I don't think I'll be attacked actually, but a successful save might actually be counter-productive at this stage. The ducks had better not attack you though...but there's nothing we can do if they decide to. There's no one more helpless than a Ranger/Nightingale...
Maybe get yourself into a more suspicious position tomorrow? Pick a fight? We really don't want them cottoning on to you.
Lalaith: The only thing I'd worry about re being eaten by Ducks is if I accidentally said the right thing and made myself look Owlish. (as I nearly did with Nilp) Otherwise, there's enough heavyweights around, for Ducks not to bother themselves overmuch with little me...on the other hand, Rangers do not have a good survival rate. Well, lets see what tomorrow brings. You're right, though, being in a Good Conspiracy is fun, rather like the French Resistance...

[Lalaith]

Day Two:
I am being more ruthless with editing, you’ll be glad to hear. We are of course delighted that my save appears to have been successful. We speculate a lot on why the ducks chose Anguirel, and what we should do next in light of this - speculation that I won’t bore you with as it was of course based on a completely false premise.

Lalaith: I'm still not happy with spawn. Her summaries so far are unusually verbose and lack her customary incisiveness.
Ang: Do you think I should state my genuine suspicions today or dissemble? For instance, I could hide my true feelings against Mith by denouncing Spawn, with a view to shooting Mith tonight.
Do you really suspect Roa that much? All your other statements seemed genuine, but there you almost seemed to be stating my view rather than yours...did I convince you? I'm not so sure of my Roa theory myself anymore...
Lalaith: No, I do suspect Roa, and unless something else happens, or you persuade me otherwise, I'll probably vote for her tonight . However, I am more suspicious of spawn than I said I was, in my post just now. I'm in watching mode, however.
(At this point Saucie makes his bird-lime suggestion and throws us both into a panic)
Ang: On the Nightingale's consecutive guarding...what could it mean?
Ordinary villager being officious?
Duck being unsubtle and unSaucelike but possibly trying to out the Nightingale through reactions?
Owl who thinks he was guarded last night and is worried, or just generally wants to find out about his life expectancy?
To me this is a far more "red alert" question than spawn's one on PMs...
Lalaith: Yes, absolutely, major red alert, which is why I have been studiously ignoring his remarks. I had thought of the first two options but not third, Owl one.
I am obviously not going to ask him what he was on about but maybe you could. They (the ducks) know you're NOT the guardian, as you couldn't have guarded yourself.
Or maybe...wait....he's a duck trying to find out if you really are the hawk. Because as the hawk, you would know that it was you that was guarded last night, and thus you would be more interested in this question.....
Ang: Another, and ironic, possibility is that Saucie himself is our pate-de-foie-gras gander! (Editor’s note – oh clever Ang)
Lal: Saucie as goose....interesting...I'm also wondering if Roa might be the Goose. Very goosey, actually, to provoke Nogrod like that, and she knows him well. Her rage against Nilp might be 'how can I help you if you won't help yourself...'
Ang: So are we just completely playing it cool about Saucie's question? With luck a player like Nogrod will realise just how peculiar it is, I suppose.
I'm probably going to have to commit myself by voting morm tonight. I might provisionally shoot Mith-lynchings can be frightfully sudden affairs-and then we'll think what to do toNight. But that's still a while in the future.
Support my morm movement if you like-I'm inclined to think it'll lessen rather than increase suspicion of a link. And we'll comb the thingamajig for strategy hints.
It's amazing to think we have only two and a half foes-I feel as if there are still at least four! (Editor's note: Again, clever Ang...)
Lalaith: I know what you mean...however I don't think I will vote morm. It looks too inconsistent, I've said nothing about him other than that he is vaguely goosey. I think I will stick with Roa unless something bad happens, eg if I have to save you or me. But neither of us seem under much suspicion.
I want to hear Saucie's protection racket. I hope he posts it soon
Ang: That Nogrod......I think the apposite phrase is a brick. (Editor’s note: To those not versed in English slang - this is a compliment, we are delighted that Noggie has just asked Saucie exactly what he meant by his plan) Just as I predicted! The ducks might even think he's the Ranger...
Lal (posting around midnight after the double Seer debacle, after Ang’s server has shut down) I'm certainly in no mood to try to dissect this all now. Despite my misgivings about spawn earlier, I'm just not going to trust Glirdan blindly.
Lets see what the lynching brings and have a proper chat tomorrow.

[JennyHallu]

I got so irritated that people commented and commented on how quiet I was...and I was honestly kicked off the internet at work, and had no time. I've fudged on that some, but not that week....

[Lalaith]

I know, Jenny, must have been very annoying...
Anyway, this is my final installment, phew.

Night three
Ang:I missed the climax of this drama, Glirdan's arrival. Even with spawn unmasked, I'm unwilling to trust him! I was so convinced my Mith's revelation-could all that Iliad stuff be a mere ruse...? What if Glirdan's the final duck? We should test him by not guarding him, perhaps...
Thank God we both stayed quiet. You're the village's most important asset right now and I don't think the duck has a clue who you are.
Lal: I know what you mean about the Glirdan/Mith thing. I just instinctively was more inclined to trust her.
Ang: I now think Glirdan can't be a duck-it's a move that leads to inevitable long term defeat if he is. But he could be a Goose who tried things out and got lucky-seeing Spawn as a likely duck for the same reasons you did.
I came round to your view by the way. Before Glirdan's arrival, I'd left with my beak trained not on morm but Spawn... I think you should call Glirdan's bluff and guard Mith at the moment.
Lal: I'm not convinced - yet - about protecting Mith. I'll throw my own plan at you later, for you to pick holes in. Incidently, what about this 'hidden aspect' Diamond mentioned, have you given that any thought? Don't tell me, you're really a duck...

Lalaith:
Possible Glirdan scenarios:
1. Glirdan is a goose. But WHY then in the name of all that is quacky would he offer up a duck for lynching? He wants the ducks to win. And he couldn't have known for sure that spawn was a duck.
2. Glirdan is a duck. If so, he will be unmasked either today or tomorrow, and lose. (Partly because if he survives more than two nights he is clearly a duck)
3. Glirdan is an owl. In which case we need to find the last duck.
Why Glirdan might be the goose/duck:
post 256 where the scenarios seem badly thought out.
Why Glirdan might be the owl:
because the other options make little or no sense.


Possible Mith scenarios
1. Mith is a goose. In which case Glirdan is the owl, Glirdan scenario 3, and we don't know who the duck is, but Glirdan might dream him/her tonight.
2. Mith is a duck. In which case, ditto as Glirdan scenario 2.
3. Mith is the owl. In which case Glirdan must be the duck because it is so unlikely that he is the goose (vid. Glirdan scenario one)

There is also the option that Mith is a Goose and Glirdan a duck. In which case we will also find this out in the next two days, and win.

So, if Mith is the owl, we do not need to protect her because we know anyway that Glirdan is the duck.
But if Glirdan is the owl, we DO need to protect him as Mith is probably the Goose and we still don't know who the duck is.

Now, shoot away, Papageno.

PS I looked on Saucie's Grimoire and found that the Ranger has had a zero survival rate.
Ang: That's because they tend to reveal themselves. Make sure you don't and you might yet break the mould. Besides, they've survived in WWJ games, I think. Take heart.

Now. Glirdan. As I say, I really cannot see him as a Duck anymore. Why would a Duck act as he has done? There's no way they could win.
I dismiss the idea of both being guilty. Surely the real Owl would have come forward? Unless they're being seriously canny and longtermish.
Mith seemed so blasted genuine. Maybe Goose Glirdan hoped to have a shot at assassinating a duck many of us suspected as such and so getting cred; effectively sealing Mith's doom; and giving the last wolf, about whom he had no clue, a chance at Kurusing it to the end.
Odd coincidence that both Owls declare Sauce innocent...a very plausible choice of dream by Glirdan, eh, particularly as it required little rejigging from Mith's mindset.
If Glirdan is the goose, remember the last duck won't himself know who is the real Owl.
Note Glirdan didn't apparently take in that roles are hidden at death-what does that say about his strategy?
Is there some, shudder, Third Way of compromise we could take? I don't really know who to hunt-my suspects have been shot to pieces and I fear my morm case was shoddy.

Lalaith: As for hunting, do you think you're a likely kill-candidate? I'm pretty sure either Glirdy or Mith, whichever is the real McCoy, are for the chop tonight.
I'm just still not convinced about Goose Glirdy. Getting a seer eaten is just not enough payback for losing a wolf. I could have protected Mith toNight but she'd have been eaten tomorrow anyway.
If Goose-Glirdy had been wrong about spawn, he would have been revealed as a fraud and lynched tomorrow, and Mith would still have been protected tonight.
It would have been too silly to say it, unless he was sure and the only way he could be sure was if he was a duck or owl.
Oh dear. I wish you weren't so convinced about Mith's genuineness.
And what about Diamond's hidden agenda, which I mentioned earlier today?
Ang: I agree, I'm not that likely a candidate, but I need to keep up appearances-and there is the fact that the duck knows I'm unguarded. And could kill two innocents. I'd say after the two Owls I'm one of the more possible targets.
Diamond's secret won't affect the the game- it'll be an anagram or a literary reference or some similar easter egg.
You'd best protect Glirdan if you feel he's the more likely. In any case thanks to spawn's demise it's no catastrophe. I'll analyse to find a suitable hawk victim.

Lalaith: Well, leave me a message to let me know who you hunt.
I don't know, maybe Diamond's secret is that there are two owls!!
Ang: I will not hunt morm-that's what the last duck expects me to do.
I am literally shooting in the dark when I choose Valier. I have had a little suspicion of her for a long time and I increasingly trust to marginal, out of the way, "winging" Hawking. I did after all pick Spawn last night before the two Owls controversy...
So...let's hope.

After both Nightingale and Hawk had died, their ghosts resumed some correspondence:

Lal: Oh, I was SO cross on Saturday morning.
You did exactly the right thing, I suspected you might be killed, and was hoping you would make Glirdan your hunt. I think we can assume Morm is innocent, don't you?
That fourth wereduck, grrr...and there I was, so pleased with my save...
Ang: At least thanks to my deception about Philomela Mith got an extra dream. I was pleased with that. Now we can have fun watching their efforts to find the Nightingale!
I suspect Valier again. But I had to remove Glirdan and his chaos, goose or duck.
It is sad about your save, but you did do well nonetheless. I wonder how on earth they spotted you...
Lal: Yes, the Philomela subterfuge was excellent, well done.
You know, I wonder if Mith turns out to be the last duck after all...the existence of an extra duck would make a false seer move more sensible.
Otherwise I would say Valier or Noggie. He changed so abruptly in style after day one...
If I were still in the village I would insist Diamond answer the following questions:
1. Did the ducks know that their first kill would join them, beforehand?
2. Was the cursed villager pre-selected and the ducks got very lucky, or would any first duck kill become a duck?

A day or two later…

Lalaith: I can't believe they killed Morm, the fools!
Who do you think the final duck is? I'm starting to wonder about Saucie...I fear we've lost. What do you think?
Ang: I'm sure it's Nogrod. He encouraged the nonsensical Kath/morm duel and pretended to trust Mith while she lived only to cast doubt on her after her demise, when her Owlishness was painfully obvious.
I trust Saucie and I think he's onto him. At one point he asked morm and Kath to consider that they might both be innocent...they ignored him...
But I'm confident Saucie will swing Kath-for Nogrod will surely kill Valier-and they'll unmask the final Duck, I hope.
Lal: I hope so. But I can't understand why Saucie, whose intellect I have the greatest respect for, didn't light on the obvious point (made by Mith before her death) that morm would never have risked killing you. Which makes me suspect him.
But you're right, Noggie is pretty suspicious too.
And the absence of Cailin/not Cailin is sorely felt.
Oh well, we shall see...

[Kath]

PS I looked on Saucie's Grimoire and found that the Ranger has had a zero survival rate.

That's probably down to me. My life as Ranger is rarely long!

Thanks for those PMs Lalaith, it's nice to see what you guys were thinking, since we Ducks had to try and work it out each Night!

[Nogrod]

Thanks Lalaith!

It was just so good read! And how you gifteds can be so right, and then so wrong!

Just nice stuff to see...

And really well thought of, by both of you two!

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by AngHawk

Diamond's secret won't affect the the game- it'll be an anagram or a literary reference or some similar easter egg.

Mwah ha ha ha ha..... ha ha.... bwahahahahahaha!

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Thank you muchly for all that Lal, you certainly were a verbose duo!

By the way -- both times I mentioned the "secret" I did it in conjunction with announcing the roles -- once in poem form and once in "plain English." That was a hint as to the nature of the "secret," that it had to do with the roles. Also, since I was not revealing roles upon death, I thought that would point to the fact that I had something to hide about the roles. Kind of obtuse hinting, but it was there.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Argh. I must have been the most catastrophic Hunter in history...

...

Fea, I think beat you that WWJ game when she killed the Seer .... and your bold bluff saved my feathers for another night so kudos

I don't think I can improve on "Kafkaesque nightmare" from my own experience of the early days at least I really started to doubt my own sanity - and I can't believe Saucie thought me a duck at all... especially given my voting. It was my best voting record since WW1 - 2 ducks and 2 reasonable (though wrong ) picks...not bad considering I had to vote so early.

Even though I didn't know I could trust him at that point, Mormegil's accurate character assessment was a comfort. It was a bit shattering to realise that just about everyone thought that my being irrational/deranged/pathological liar was a more plausible explanation than my telling the truth . If I play again I shall try to avoid such a stressful RL time and make sure I am filled to the gills on Evening Primrose Oil ... In many ways it was a brilliant game - just not an ideal one for an anxiety sufferer ..... Ah well, I might well be paranoid but you were out to get me!!!

[JennyHallu]

Honestly, when I'm a wolf/orc/duck, the first thing I make sure stays fairly good is my voting record. As a werecreature, I have the knowledge to make sure my voting record is good...

And I don't think an innocent should ever make a vote they feel is unreasonable...

[Kath]

Hehe, all you need is Sauce on your side! My voting record this game was appalling, yet he turned it round so it looked innocent

[Lalaith]

It was a bit shattering to realise that just about everyone thought that my being irrational/deranged/pathological liar was a more plausible explanation than my telling the truth

No! You underestimate yourself, and our opinion of you. I for one was concerned that you were just being unbelievably cunning, making a brilliant show of being stressed and nervy in order to fox us all....

[JennyHallu]

Lalaith hit it exactly...

I did think you were the goose...but I thought it was an absolutely brilliant strategy, and envied you the cunning necessary to throw so many up against eachother. And then after I was dead, Glirdy revealed his Seerishness to me in a PM...so I thought I had proof that you were a Goose and was even more impressed.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

making a brilliant show of being stressed and nervy in order to fox us all....

Stressed and nervy is my default setting so I thought I was being quite natural! And do you think I would have admitted to the worlds dullest occupation if hadn't been telling the truth!!!! You know of all jobs, accountants avoid telling people what they do for a living for the longest? That is a statistical fact. There is only one accountancy joke too....

[Kath]

There is only one accountancy joke too....

You have to tell us what it is now!

[Mithalwen]

Well you may have to be in the trade to find it funny:

Q What's 2+2?

A What do you want it to be?

[Roa_Aoife]

Q What's 2+2?

A What do you want it to be?

*dies of laughter*

Really, Mith, I found your nervousness odd, because every other game I've played with you, you've been the voice of reason. You're panic and over-reaction was amazingly different than what I've seen from you before. I guess this game just had poor luck in the timing category for everyone. *hugs*

[Mithalwen]

I felt ratty rather than nervy at the time- PMT can be mitigation for murder you know!! and given my extremely limited net time I was rather annoyed (knowing that I was innocent) that the best thing our "great minds" found do was count my punctuation. They had said they wanted to seriously catch ducks and seemed to be rearranging the proverbial deckchairs. Of course that made them look suspicious to me but of course the more I tried to fight back the worse I looked

Roa, bear in mind you had played with me as a rather gormless innocent (who Anguirel found useful to keep alive a little too long! ) and a very fatalistic wolf. Remember our PMs when I said that I would be grateful not to be lynched Day one again? I was so relieved to do that that everything else was a bonus. I think giftedness does make you play slightly differently - you are looking for your target for dreaming/ protection perhaps more than the werebeast. It was very like being Draugluin and I blew a fuse then too

[Kath]

Haha! That was actually pretty funny Mith.

Roa, Mith tends to get stressy when she's a Gifted (cheers for that clue Mith ) because she has to keep it hidden yet not get killed at the same time and it seems to make her panic. I can see why I must admit! The one time I was Seer I think I reacted the same way and ended up dead by Day 3.

But don't worry Mith, we love you really! It's just during the game we want to kill you

[Mithalwen]

er thanks I think ....

But you are right, if you are gifted you have to try to be involved and constructive enough in the debate not to get lynched without making yourself a prime target for the night's kill. If you succeed at that you then look as if you are "flying under the radar" which of course is the default suspicion mode round about day 3 if the villagers have had no luck with the more evident suspects.

Should you last any longer, and have a "reputation" then you will be found suspicious because you aren't dead. All the time you are thinking about the best use of your gifts and the slightly different perspective does make you seem different. For example when Saucey said I had backtracked in my attack on him, I had simply at that moment decided to vote for Spawn and find out about SpM in my dream.

It is not surprising that gifteds rarely survive the games.

[Kath]

It was a compliment Mith I promise.