Tol-in-Gaurhoth XX: Wereorc I: The elves cannot hide themselves much longer.

[Farael]

Middle-Erthian lore usually recognises rather few elven domains. Rivendel, Lothlorien, Mirkwood are perhaps better known because of the war of the ring. What no other scholar but myself knows, is the sad story of a small elven village that went by the name of “Pueblo”. For some extremely strange reason, the villagers of this town happened to speak a variation of Quenya that resembled Spanish very closely. They also wore Sombreros. Nice sombreros too, it is sad that the art of making elvish sombreros has been lost along with the history and lives of some of the residents of this town.

But I ramble, what I was trying to get across is that there was this little nice village in which everything was ok

[Flashback to Diamond 18 walking down a well cared for lawn]
Diamond: Everything is perfectly fine, nothing could possibly go wrong!!
[/endFlashback]

Yet of course, and as it always happens on the movies, things went wrong anyway. It was a dark night, Winter had recently gone away to make place for Spring, which had chosen to take vacations and left a void that was promptly filled by Summer. Sadly, Summer had spend his off-season eating too much and was nowhere close to game shape so for all intents and purposes, it was a dark Winter night. Even if it was not time for Winter.

What was I saying? Oh, I should have taken that green pill… what was it for? Which colour was the memory pill? Oh, yes… the story.

Small animals tended to disappear from time to time on this village, always at night. The last victim had been Nogrod’s little dog, a very friendly if slightly rabid dog. Somehow, the cage in which he was kept to prevent other animals getting the disease had been torn open yet the dog was never found.

This night, something would happen that would comparatively diminish the animal disappearances to a mildly annoying joke. Farael disappeared.

Who was Farael? The scrolls are rather inconclusive. As far as I can understand, he was either a psychomaniac sheep with horns as long as a man’s forearm and a really foul temper… or he was the town’s Alchemist. I’m still working on that.

His disappearance was discovered by Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant when she went to his laboratory to remind him that she had written him a letter which he had not yet answered. She walked into the lab and found everything in complete order. The chemicals were organized alphabetically, the instruments were clean and stored in the proper places and the books were ordered by author in their respective shelves. Spawn ran away crying.

She was crying so hard she did not see Sleepy Ranger who decided to set his “apple-barrel” self right in the middle of the street. She tripped and went flying over the edge of a conveniently placed endless pit. Suddenly, a shining figure dressed in a white robe appeared, carefully bringing Spawn off the hole and deposited safely on the town’s square, where the other villagers had gathered to see what all the noise was.

Nilp, what the heck are you doing here? This is MY game, not yours!... oh, alright fine.. I won’t kill Spawn just yet, but if she gets lynched or killed by the wereorcs you have to promise not to interfere….

*ahem* yes, so I was saying, the village was gathered and Spawn explained what she had seen. Legolas in Spandex questioned the woman’s sanity, as he saw nothing wrong with Farael’s lab being clean. JennyHallu took Legolas aside for a moment and explained him that Farael never cleans or puts things in their proper order, therefore someone must have attacked him during the night and decided to clean to erase the evidence.

Glirdan volunteered to start looking for Farael and was joined by Findëasëa and Kitanna. After a moment of deliberation, they walked to Farael’s laboratory and found it, just like Spawn had said, in complete order. Yet there was something she had not noticed. On one corner, there was a huge jar of Hydrochloric Acid. That isn’t really important for the story’s sake, but I figured I’d let you know about it. What did matter is that on the other corner there was something, covered by a blanket and a sign that said “Do not touch. Signed: Fareal”.

Obviously, Farael would not misspell his own name, so Glirdan decided to investigate. You are probably expecting to read that it was Farael’s body what was under the blanket, and I will not let you down this time. The poor elf had his body dyed of many different colours and a bewildered look on his face. Findëasëa grabbed a book that was titled “chemical compounds of Middle Earth and their colours” only to find that Farael had effectively been stained with every compound known. This had clearly killed him, but why wasn’t he wearing his labcoat? A quick inspection of the site brought up the answer.

The coat was stashed on a drawer and written all over. Most of the writings were gone, but what Kitanna managed to read said the following:

Sounds of chemicals boiling in the room…
They are outside, I cannot get out
I have locked the doors, shut the windows but I fear I will not be able to hold them back

“WEREWOLVES?! WHO WAS IT, FARAEL?!” Yelled Glirdan, but the writing on the labcoat went on

… be patient, I’m trying to set a mood here…
Here they come again, there are three of them.
The chemicals are boiling, I cannot get out…
Three wereorcs are after me,
From their clothes I know that they are…

Glirdan waited patiently, but this time it was the end of the writing.

Farael was killed by three wereorcs and the village was thrown into mayhem and confusion. In their elven wisdom, they determined that what they needed to do was to argue during the day in order to decide of one, and only one, elf to Lynch, in hopes it will be one of the wretched creatures. Furthermore, they decided that, to avoid confusion and add stress, once an elf had voted, he would not be able to change his vote.

Two villagers nodded silently, while thinking to themselves. One of them was going to be in charge of looking after his fellow villagers. The other was in charge of discovering the identity of the wereorcs, even if the information would not go to him/herself at night.

And so, the village started arguing their way for the first day’s lynching.

Now living:
Caranlondien: aspiring harpist
JennyHallu: Doomsday prophet
Nogrod: unemployed barber.
Grendelien: village whittler
Findëasëa: paleoelfropologist
Celuien:lampwright
Zali: stringer-of-bows
Diamond: Inept Jewel Smith
Dancing Spawn...: a merchant
Glirdan:Very confused wereWOLF hunter (confused as he's faced with wereorcs rather than werewolves)
Kitanna:(still playing? If so thou shall be...) The town's gate-keeper
Naria:The grower of magnificent flowers
Sleepy A barrel of apples*
Legolas in spandex:For now he shall be Legolass (A movie-Legolast impersonator) unless he gives me another role
Roa_Aoife aspiring ballad writer

3 Wereorcs, 1 Ranger and 1 Shaman are still alive..

The wereorcs may PM only during the night cycle. They have to plot and decide whom to kill every night during the day, they act as any other villager.

The ranger will PM me every night the name of a villager. This villager will not be killed if the wereorcs choose him. The ranger may not choose the same villager two nights in a row

The shaman will PM me the name of one villager every night. The role of this villager will be disclosed in a dream right before the start of the following day. The dream will go to the Shaman for sure on day 1, then it will be decided completely at random. It may go to the Shaman, it may go to a wereorc, it may go to an innocent villager.

The rest of the rules are standard Werewolf. PM me if there are any doubts and… post away, my friends.

EDIT: Just a little friendly reminder... you MIGHT want to keep yourself as "invisible" during the game. It will avoid people being able to see what you are doing and thus derive information from it. To change your status to "invisible" you have to go to the User CP and toy around there, I'm not sure where it is. Do remember to save changes once you are done.

EDIT 2: Forgot to mention, I started the day early because I have a Pesach (Passover) diner tonight and I won't be around much longer.

[Nogrod]

Well, Farael the many-coloured! And as I thought that the loss of my dog was the worst thing to happen...

I'll just have to sleep over this.

But just a question for everyone to think about during the day and the oncoming night: we will not have to decide about this today, but tomorrow we will have to.

How do we make the best use of these shaman-dreams, going to random people? My basic instinct would say, we just come forwards with them, one by one, as we have them. The orcs possibly won't get very far with lying about them (one "found out" -lie - when the dream goes to an orc that tries to save a fellow - would get another orc lynched immediately?) - and the chance of them having a dream is about 1/4.

In the end, I think, it comes down to the question, how much do we believe, that the stars are not against us (with bad luck, we will have just distorted dreams), and how boldly we villagers want to play? We might have good chances with this way of dreaming, even better than in a normal "seer-game" - as the revelation burden can be shared: the revelation not revealing the shaman her/himself?

I admit these thoughts are not thought to the end, but maybe - tomorrow - we all have some balanced ideas about the subject, and can devise the best plan to get rid of this pestilence that has fallen upon our village.

[Celuien]

Oh dear, poor Farael. I shall miss him. I enjoyed mixing hydrochloric acid with zinc over an open fire in his lab. 'Twas quite noisy, but the lights were brilliantly bright.

Originally Posted by Nogrod, post #2

How do we make the best use of these shaman-dreams, going to random people? My basic instinct would say, we just come forwards with them, one by one, as we have them. The orcs possibly won't get very far with lying about them (one "found out" -lie - when the dream goes to an orc that tries to save a fellow - would get another orc lynched immediately?) - and the chance of them having a dream is about 1/4.

Not a bad plan, except for one thing. If we reveal dreams as we have them, then the Orcs can pick off any known innocents, one-by-one, rendering the dreams useless. What the village needs to do is hold back the identities of innocents until we have enough names collected to make the revealations worth while.

Actually, though, it might not be a bad idea for each of us to find some way of leaving obscure hints so that if someone receives a dream and dies before being able to reveal it, there's still some way of picking up on what was known.

And I sort of have to go pretty soon, though I'll try to come back in several hours...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Celuien

Not a bad plan, except for one thing. If we reveal dreams as we have them, then the Orcs can pick off any known innocents, one-by-one, rendering the dreams useless.

Well that was just the thing I thought about: and this way we win... because they are made to react, rather than act. We will then be always one dream ahead - and at some place, the wolves will be dreamed of too!

Actually, though, it might not be a bad idea for each of us to find some way of leaving obscure hints so that if someone receives a dream and dies before being able to reveal it, there's still some way of picking up on what was known.

I think this is a good working plan too. It is just a bit vague: we won't be able to trust, that the talk of some innocent dead was a hint or just a hunch, if they are obscure enough...

But we will have to think about these both: this day, and the next night.

PS. I do not mean we should use all our day's discussions on these matters - maybe we just all think about these ourselves, maybe commenting on the worst flaws in mine or Celuien's ideas - maybe introducing good new ideas too? Then we could open a real discussion tomorrow?

[Roa_Aoife]

Horrid, filthy things, those orcs. Abominations to Elf and Eru. Poor Farael, having to deal with them. I wish he could have written more on that coat.

This dreaming is interesting. It protects the shaman by making it less necessary to come forward, and helps the village begin to act as a team. (One thing the wolves/orcs/cats/ducks/whatever have always had over the villagers.) It gives us a distinct advantage in that if a villager dreams of a wereorc they can come forward and sacrifice themselves, with out us losing the source of the dreams. Interesting, indeed.

The down side is that it can be misleading. We'll know who the shaman is after they die, but we can't necessarily look at their posts to see what they knew. We won't know which villagers dreamed or not when they die unless they tell us before they die, which they may not have the chance to do if they are killed in the night. The whole thing could turn against us rather quickly.

EDIT: Cross-posted with Nogrod

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

The down side is that it can be misleading. We'll know who the shaman is after they die, but we can't necessarily look at their posts to see what they knew.

That's a good point! I hadn't thought of that yet.

Looks intersting, anyhow.
(And now finally to sleep: I'll be back after some rest)

[Diamond18]

Eepers jeepers, these are meticulous orcs. Farael, dyed to death! *grabs various tools and thingies used in jewel smithing and assumes a defensive stance* I fear for my life. I fear for my cat's life. I fear for the life of my precious jewels. Nasty, thieving orcs will no doubt covet my latest experiment; light absorbing silmarils! Yes! You simply put them out on your windowsill on a sunny day and bring them in at night, whisper a few strangely Spanish sounding Elven words over them, and voila, they cast off the light they absorbed during the day! I've almost got to the point where they don't blow up when you invoke their power. Once I've got that little problem ironed out, I'll be working on various color schemes for the jewels: Excellent Emerald, Groovy Green, Bodacious Blue, Rad Red, etc. Mood lighting. It will be revolutionary.

Those orcs will not have them, I say! Death to all wereorcs!

(What, you were expecting something useful? Oh well. Okay. I agree with Celuien that we don't want to rush to reveal our dreams if we are so lucky to receive them from the Shaman. Keep the information secret as long as possible but leave hints if it seems necessary. I am all in agreement with this plan. More later.)

[Celuien]

*back for a few minutes*

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Well that was just the thing I thought about: and this way we win... because they are made to react, rather than act. We will then be always one dream ahead - and at some place, the wolves will be dreamed of too!

Right, but only one dream ahead, making it a hard to amass enough of a proven innocents to unknowns ratio to guide voting effectively.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I think this is a good working plan too. It is just a bit vague: we won't be able to trust, that the talk of some innocent dead was a hint or just a hunch, if they are obscure enough...

Delibrately vague, for now anyway. The Orcsies are watching too, after all...

*goes away again*

[Glirdan]

Wereorcs?? WEREORCS!? What rubbish is this!? I don't hunt wereORCS!! I hunt WEREWOLVES!! What is going on in this village?? Farael!! Please send me a sign as to who these foul beasts are!! Please let me aid our Protector!! I will avenge your death! Even if it is against a species that I don't really have any expertise in!!

How do we make the best use of these shaman-dreams, going to random people? My basic instinct would say, we just come forwards with them, one by one, as we have them. The orcs possibly won't get very far with lying about them (one "found out" -lie - when the dream goes to an orc that tries to save a fellow - would get another orc lynched immediately?) - and the chance of them having a dream is about 1/4.(Nogrod)

I rather like Celuien's reponse to this:

Not a bad plan, except for one thing. If we reveal dreams as we have them, then the Orcs can pick off any known innocents, one-by-one, rendering the dreams useless. What the village needs to do is hold back the identities of innocents until we have enough names collected to make the revealations worth while.

Actually, though, it might not be a bad idea for each of us to find some way of leaving obscure hints so that if someone receives a dream and dies before being able to reveal it, there's still some way of picking up on what was known.

I quite agree with you on this aspect. The one thing I really don't like about your plan Nogrod is that if the Wolves...I mean Orcs, could use the name they recieve and say that that person is an Orc. So I don't think we should really be trusting anyone. It would be very dangerous for us. But that's just my opinion.

The down side is that it can be misleading. We'll know who the shaman is after they die, but we can't necessarily look at their posts to see what they knew. We won't know which villagers dreamed or not when they die unless they tell us before they die, which they may not have the chance to do if they are killed in the night. The whole thing could turn against us rather quickly.(Roa)

This is another good point. I was acutally thinking of that myself. There are quite a few flaws with this idea (not that it isn't a good one) that I really think we should let it be. I also believe that when a villager dreams of someone, they should leave subtle hints throughout the day and if it's quite apparent that someone is about to die, then they should come out (if they have the chance) and say if they've had a dream.

I shall be back later.

[Caranlondien]

Alas and alack! Our poor dear alchemist, dead! My harp shall do naught but weep for Farael until his death has been avenged.

Now, as to killing these nasty orcs... I think Celuien makes a good point about the proposal of having the dreamers come forward immediately with those they dreamed about:

Originally Posted by Celuien

Right, but only one dream ahead, making it a hard to amass enough of a proven innocents to unknowns ratio to guide voting effectively.

I think discretion is in order, and it's a bad idea to make generalizations about how we should act - makes it easier for the wereorcs if we tell them our intentions.

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Caranlondien

I think discretion is in order, and it's a bad idea to make generalizations about how we should act - makes it easier for the wereorcs if we tell them our intentions.

Caran (may I call you that?) makes a good point. I think in the end it will be up to whoever has the dream. Afterall, it's their potential sacrifice.

We ought to move on and discuss strategies for Day 1. Now I know everyone hates Day 1, nothing to go on, random babbling, etc, etc, etc, but Therianthropes have been caught on Day 1 and we have the ability to do so again. I personally don't like random voting- I like to vote for whoever is the most suspicious to me on any given day, no matter how marginal that suspicion is. If, however, you get to the end of today and are completely lost, by all means vote randomly. It's better to make a random vote than not vote at all. You may even get lucky. It's happened before.

Basically, let's get some discussion going so we can avoid the need for random votes.

[Diamond18]

I'm not sure what to talk about past the Shaman strategy, and so far I think I agree with Celuien and Caran both that discretion, and personal judgement, should be used when deciding whether to reveal when one has been given the dream.

Other than that, I'll be working on my silmarils. I.E., waiting for more of the village to post.

[JennyHallu]

Farael...he who taught me the joys of Bunsen burners...shall be sorely missed. But he shall not be missed for very long. Why, you ask?

BECAUSE THE WORLD IS GOING TO END AND WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!

HORRIBLY!!!

*wipes sweat off brow*
*adjusts Sign of Impending Doom*

Anywho...

I've been spending the past several days thinking about the Shaman dreams, and I think I also stand with Celuien. Let's not make things quite so obvious to the Orksies. Now...who among us might be guilty?

Dancing Spawn...you look far too innocent. You too, Roa. I mean really, they're so blazingly white innocent all the time that one of them has got to be evil incarnate.

And Sleepy. The whole idea of a sentient barrel of apples creeps me out. I mean really...you're walking down the street and you hear something, turn around, and all there is is a barrel of apples.

Diamond also worries me. Threat of certain annihilation, and she's playing with sparkly rocks? Doesn't she know the world is ending? I've told her and told her...

Substance maybe later.

(The Jen is fairly sure she is going insane due to scheduling. Hopefully her brain will kick back in. Don't count on it at least until she's had sleep.)

[Celuien]

Might as well get started on the running analysis…
Posted so far:
Nogrod – laments Farael, thinks dreams should be posted as received, says Orcs won’t get far by lying about dreams.
Glirdan – expresses confusion over wereORCS instead of werewolves, vows to avenge Farael’s death. Agrees with me on Nogrod’s plan, adds that we shouldn’t trust anyone too readily since Orcs can lie about dreams. Says to leave subtle hints about dreams unless someone is in danger of dying.
Caranlondien – laments Farael, says I have a point about revealing dreams too quickly. Calls for discretion.
Roa_Aoife – laments Farael, thinks the dreams available to us are interesting since the Shaman is protected, allowing villagers to reveal dreams. Points out that dreams can be misleading since we don’t know which villagers dreamed or what they dreamed if they die without leaving a hint. Agrees with Caran about the need for discretion. Doesn’t like random voting, calls for more discussion so we don’t need to vote randomly.
Diamond18 – laments Farael. Agrees with me that we shouldn’t rush to reveal dreams. Agrees with Caran about needing discretion on the part of dream receivers about revealing dreams. Awaiting more discussion.

Waiting to hear from:
JennyHallu
Grendelien
Findëasëa
Zali
Dancing Spawn
Kitanna
Naria
Sleepy
Legolas in spandex

Well. Let’s see if I can stir things up. If I activate my Random Illuminator™ and turn it on those who haven’t arrived yet, it reveals that Grendelien, Sleepy and Spawn are clearly up to something together. You see, Grendelien whittles the barrels that make up Sleepy the apple barrel (what’s with an Elf turning into a barrel, anyway?), and Spawn sells the apples. Such a bizarre business plan is highly suspicious.

EDIT: crossed with Jenny while typing very, very slowly. She should, of course, be off the non-posters list now.

[Celuien]

And if I may be permitted to double post, let me agree that I hate day 1, with all its data deficient confusion. And that the only thing I dislike more than day 1 is random voting on day 1 if there's a chance to vote for someone truly suspicious.

Discuss away!

[Roa_Aoife]

Quick check in in the middle of ballad writing (Read: Homework)

Originally Posted by Jenny

Dancing Spawn...you look far too innocent. You too, Roa. I mean really, they're so blazingly white innocent all the time that one of them has got to be evil incarnate.

Well, yeah, but what does that have to with wereorcs?

[Kitanna]

I become free of the wicked english essay beast only to find trouble waiting for me in the least likely of places.
Well down to business I suppose.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

How do we make the best use of these shaman-dreams, going to random people? My basic instinct would say, we just come forwards with them, one by one, as we have them. The orcs possibly won't get very far with lying about them (one "found out" -lie - when the dream goes to an orc that tries to save a fellow - would get another orc lynched immediately?) - and the chance of them having a dream is about 1/4.

I'm not so sure about coming forward right away. I can't really say why, but I just have a feeling we should wait and see before acting, unless an innocent is in true danger of being lynched.
Celiun has stated part of what I think on the subject:

Not a bad plan, except for one thing. If we reveal dreams as we have them, then the Orcs can pick off any known innocents, one-by-one, rendering the dreams useless.

There's something else that bothers me about coming right out aside from that though. Anyone in the villager is able to have the dream, even the wereorcs. I feel if we reveal the dreams as they come and a wereorc has one he/she can manage to bend it to their will, without having to lie. I can't quite explain what I'm getting at, so I'll stop before I ramble myself into a hole.
Also with that plan the shaman is just as likely to get the dream as anyone. So if we reveal the dreams every day if the shaman actually gets one and reveals it we're out on the dreams.
It's probable a villager will only get one dream (if that) the entire game. If one comes forward with a dream of the orc and is innocent and the orcs spare him/her that night the villager may think he/she is an orc and lynch an innocent villager. This is just a terrible downfall to the shaman dreams altogther. [/ramble]

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Celuien

Well. Let’s see if I can stir things up. If I activate my Random Illuminator™ and turn it on those who haven’t arrived yet, it reveals that Grendelien, Sleepy and Spawn are clearly up to something together. You see, Grendelien whittles the barrels that make up Sleepy the apple barrel (what’s with an Elf turning into a barrel, anyway?), and Spawn sells the apples. Such a bizarre business plan is highly suspicious.

Along those same lines, Caran and Roa are highly suspicious, always hanging out together, Roa writing ballads and Caran playing them on her harp. In fact just the other day I'm sure I heard Roa singing, "Oh I hate that Farael/I want to kill him for real" whilst Caran accompanied her on the harp. If that's not Orcish, I know not what.

(C'mon, let's not hate Day 1 too much, guys. It's the only day you can really post fun nonsense and be in character. )

[Caranlondien]

Sure, Roa; "Caran" works for me

I guess those of us who have posted thus far have reached the general consensus that dreamers should be cautious and use their own discretion in deciding whether or not to come forward.

So... er, anyone have anything other thoughts on how best to kill those orcs? I'm fresh out of thoughts...

Originally Posted by Diamond18

Along those same lines, Caran and Roa are highly suspicious, always hanging out together, Roa writing ballads and Caran playing them on her harp. In fact just the other day I'm sure I heard Roa singing, "Oh I hate that Farael/I want to kill him for real" whilst Caran accompanied her on the harp. If that's not Orcish, I know not what.

Actually, I keep inviting Roa to come sing while I'm playing, but she always says she's busy. I've noticed people always stay away from me when I'm playing my harp (I don't get why!). Maybe I'll play it all night to keep the wereorcs away...

[The 1,000 Reader]

Thanks.

If you need it, I could make a discussion thread for you once the game goes off. Granted, you could easily do the same, but it's the thought that counts.

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Caranlondien

So... er, anyone have anything other thoughts on how best to kill those orcs? I'm fresh out of thoughts...

Well, we could chop off their heads. Or stake them through the heart. Or pelt them with rocks. Or drown them. Or set them on fire. Or we could lock them in a room with you while you play your harp.

Or did you mean how to discover them? Right now, beats me. The Shaman got to kick things off with a dream, though, so maybe s/he knows something already and can hint to us. I'll be keeping my eyes peeled.

(That's an idea, we could also peel their skin off! Mwah ha ha ha!)

[Glirdan]

So... er, anyone have anything other thoughts on how best to kill those orcs? I'm fresh out of thoughts...(Caran)

Well, unfortunately, I have expertise in the wereWOLVES area, not the wereORCS.

I will be back on the morrow with more. For now, I need to go lay down due to this dratted timezone disease. It's really quite a pain and I wish I could cure it, but alas! that cannot happen. For now, discuss away.

[Findëasëa]

These are not good times for the village. Three wereorcs about, and poor Farael gone? Hmmm…at least I know that I will have something to study in an age or so, although those colors might have interfered with the integrity of the sampling. It can be a tough thing, being a paleoelfrolpologist, especially with us elves being immortal and all. I guess I should just stick with artifacts.

I think that the method proposed in which dreams are not revealed daily would be advantageous. People ought not reveal their dreams, or at least not until much later in the game.

[Grendelien]

Oh, what a foul way for our brilliant alchemist to pass! Such a brave elf was Farael, always skipping rocks of sodium on ponds just to bring joy to the faces of younger elves. Sure, there were times when the young ones would get too close to the scene, but that is all part of the learning experience. But let me not prate. Though anecdotes flood my head, I shall only say that our dear Farael will be sorely missed.

Concerning the dream, it's difficult to determine what exactly the dreamer should do because the situation is a double-edged sword. As already stated (sorry I'm repeating almost everyone's thoughts), the dreamer may practice discretion and wait until an appropriate time to give away hints (or the entire dream), and may be killed before revealing it...and on the other hand, if the dreamer tells us the dream, s/he will most likely be killed if the dream is incriminating. I know this isn't much help, so I will just say that I agree with Caranlondien in that we should act how we see best fit, given the situation.

[Naria]

Sorry for the tardiness. I have been away from my garden all day and have just returned. Hmmm....poor poor Farael. He rather enjoyed my flowers and used some species in his experiments. I will gather a bouquet straight away and place it beside his head stone after he receives a proper burial.

Dang blasted Wereorcs, wolves etc!! I would like just one time to relocate to a quite village that stays quite--without something or someone turning into a horrid creature*sigh*. Alas, I am here now and will assist the villagers in any way possible in order to rid yet another place of such foul beings.

Now without reiterating every word....I agree that those whom are granted a dream should not reveal the dreamt of. They should use their discretion and reveal only when they think the time is right. I also agree that the Orcs could very well use that to their advantage and clean out the village one by one.

Since it is quite early in Day 1 and it being Day 1, I do not have suspicions as of yet. I will return in about 9 hours and hopefully come up with something. G'Night all.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Naria

Now without reiterating every word....I agree that those whom are granted a dream should not reveal the dreamt of. They should use their discretion and reveal only when they think the time is right. I also agree that the Orcs could very well use that to their advantage and clean out the village one by one.

I am not intenting to push this matter - I remember those Nogrod vs. the rest of the village situations clearly enough...

I just think, that many of you are making hasty judgements on the issue. There is no way that the orcs could benefit from those open revelations, so I think it is more a choice of style to play - or then our advantage - haven't thought about it that much yet.

But really: everytime an orc tries to misuse the dreams, we villagers benefit. Just think my friends. If they don't misuse them, they "use" them (killing the innocent at night), but then again they kill an innocent anyhow, every night.

It's true, that we will lose the possibility of a mass revelation, but then again, mass-revealing could be tricky too - at least if the shaman is dead that time!

Well, this just as food for thought. I'm not sure about this plan myself either, but would like to think it through before tomorrow is at an end.

I'll be joining you in some 4-5 hours time.

[JennyHallu]

Hey guys, I'll be in and out today.

Just wanted to say: Quit obsessing over the dreams already! The village seems to have come to a consensus, and all the people whose idea of helpfulness is to show up and say "I agree" makes me nervous. We are all of us intelligent people, I'm sure we can see when to use the dreams. One aside though...the more we reveal the dreams, the more we narrow down the list for the Orcs of who, precisely, is the Shaman. For this reason it worries me that Nogrod is so fiercely a proponent of a daily reveal.

Let's try to focus on finding an Orc before they squish us all in our beds, shall we? I'd rather prefer the world to end by a cataclysmic earthquake or meteor shower or something, not some smelly old orcs.

[Roa_Aoife]

Naria, could you explain something for me-

Originally Posted by Naria

I also agree that the Orcs could very well use that to their advantage and clean out the village one by one.

Originally Posted by Naria

There is no way that the orcs could benefit from those open revelations,

What are you trying to say?

[Sleepy Ranger]

Oh dear me, somebody set us up a bomb! Ahem, well I don't have much time today. But I'll say this- WereOrc Hunting. Serious Business.

My vote on Day 1 shall be random, in fact I think I may go with a safe vote. Hopefully this time round I shan't be lynched/eaten on the first Day/Night. Lets have a good game folks. *Eats an apple.*

[Caranlondien]

Originally Posted by Roa

Naria, could you explain something for me-

What are you trying to say?

I think Naria only said the first quote - the second was Nogrod.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Poor Farael! We shall find those Orcs and avenge his death. That said, I'll get down to business.


Many have expressed their opinion about the dreams. I trust that people can make their own minds how to act if they receive a dream, but I'd like to say one thing.

Originally Posted by Celuien

Actually, though, it might not be a bad idea for each of us to find some way of leaving obscure hints so that if someone receives a dream and dies before being able to reveal it, there's still some way of picking up on what was known.

Rather than leaving "obscure hints", I'd prefer having reasoned cases. I believe that once we recover from the shock, everyone starts accusing, suspecting and defending other villagers. It is easier to hide a dream into a good case since there will be so many of them around anyway (I hope) that the orcs can't tell which one of the arguments is based on a dream. And if the orcs should kill the one who had the dream, we shall see easily, whom that person dreamed of.

Okay, this post is just to let you know that I finally got here. More later once I've reread everything.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by dancing spawn of ungoliant

And if the orcs should kill the one who had the dream, we shall see easily, whom that person dreamed of.

No! On the contrary: we shall never know, that that person had the dream in the first place! You can't come back from behind the grave to announce, that "btw. I was one who had a dream!". So the dream is completely wasted - and we don't even have the "seer-archives", to give us help on the later date... Believe me: I have really been worried about this disadvantage we have here.

And Jenny: I might be narrowing down the chances for the orcs (hadn't thought of that), but also narrowing the scope for the seer! But I admit, not knowing, which one of these is the heavier thing.

But from a somewhat different reason, I say my plan is a flawed one, and badly. So let's forget it for now...

The reason is as follows. At least a good seer (don't know, how a good shaman would do) would try to find out first about the most experienced and "best" players. If we that way openly reveal them as innocents, then wolves killing them do not look suspicious - even if those people would have hit right before their nightly deaths. So we risk our best villagers by following my plan. Not good.

But that said, this looks quite grim: we will be wasting a lot of dreams and therefore, kind of play without a seer (except if the dream is on an orc, when of course every decent villager voices that out loud and clear).

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by spawn

Rather than leaving "obscure hints", I'd prefer having reasoned cases. I believe that once we recover from the shock, everyone starts accusing, suspecting and defending other villagers. It is easier to hide a dream into a good case since there will be so many of them around anyway (I hope) that the orcs can't tell which one of the arguments is based on a dream. And if the orcs should kill the one who had the dream, we shall see easily, whom that person dreamed of.

Good point. I really haven't decided what I'll do should I be fortunate enough to be granted a dream.

Not a whole lot of time to post right now. So far, as usual, most of you are looking completely innocent to me. I have a couple of theories, but not enough to post on now, as I haven't enough time to review and attempt to build a case at this point. And there are a few more villagers I'd like to hear more from first.

Oh, and I retract my random triad silliness from earlier. Derned illuminator never did work properly.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Thanks, Nogrod, that's right, of course, although the Shaman knows whom s/he dreamed of, and therefore should be able to use that kind of information, too, but that's not probably the most relevant subject toDay.

I'll leave the of talk of tactics and move on to doing something else, like commenting on other villagers' behaviour, for example. A couple of things have caught my attention. It is Day 1, yes, but we have to start from something, so...


- Diamond18. She has spoken relatively much, but most of it is occupation-based chatting. Is she a wereorc trying to make her presence clear by posting "fun nonsense in character" to make it clear that she's not flying under the radar because that's what is usually considered suspicious?

- Roa_Aoife. Another villager who's posted a lot - not that it would be a crime, on the contrary. The thing that made me feel uneasy about her was her subtle way to excuse random voting.

I personally don't like random voting- I like to vote for whoever is the most suspicious to me on any given day, no matter how marginal that suspicion is. If, however, you get to the end of today and are completely lost, by all means vote randomly. It's better to make a random vote than not vote at all.

Of course everyone should vote for the one they find the most suspicious. I don't think that pulling a name out of a hat and voting for the one that got unlucky helps the village much. People can have strong suspicions or just a feeling about a villager, but it's better to vote with a reason, no matter how silly it is, than to excuse oneself from all responsibility and vote 'randomly' for someone.

Another thing that I wonder is, why Roa wanted to take the time to answer Jenny's accusation of her. She, according to herself, just quickly popped in to check the situation while other business demanded her attention, and still she wrote something to defend her although the accusation seemed to be just normal Day 1 chatting.

Originally Posted by Roa

Well, yeah, but what does that have to with wereorcs?

- Findëasëa. She has made only one post, in which she settled for telling that there are three wereorcs in the village and Farael is dead. Well, she did agree with a dream issue, but she didn't say why. Where are her own thoughts? Since she appears to be a new arrival, I won't pursue this matter further toDay, though.

- Sleepy Ranger. Serious business, you say? You don't seem to be taking it very seriously...

[Naria]

Roa, I said that because it's true. They will pick us off one by one and someone coming forth and saying so and so is an ordo(for sure) or worse a gifted will definitely ensure that person's death. And yes the orcs will pick us off one by one regardless, but I think that someone saying someone is an ordo will just help the orcs a little too much for my liking.

That being said, I agree that we should just drop this for the time being and concentrate on finding us some Orcsies.

The second quote was not mine, sorry.


PS: My computer is going in for servicing right away, but I will try my best to get on a computer somewhere and vote before the Day's end.

[Kitanna]

Day ends in a couple of hours, does it not? Or am I just really messed up timewise?
Well in any case I don't have a whole lot to add. Since my first post I see little that would lead me to be overly suspicious of anyone.

A lot was said on the dreams and it appears everyone has reached a consensus about not revealing the dreams as they come.
Plenty of in character comments, but that's not much to go on.
Nogrod continues to push for the revealing of dreams in post 28.
Sleepy has openly proclaimed a random vote. Not that random voting is bad, but I just wish he'd wait before making such a declaration. A lot can happen from the beginning and end of the day. I suppose it just irks me when a declaration like that is made without the actual vote being in the same post. Meh, but that's just me.
Norgrod continues to his defense of the shaman dreams in post 34. You seem to stand alone on this Nogrod. In a regular seer situation you'd never tell the seer to come forward like you would with the shaman dreams. I say treat each dreamer like a seer and let them come forward from their own judgement. And with that I hope this will be the last time I give my opinion on the subject today.
Spawn has given her thoughts on various villagers and what she has said made sense to me, though I'm not so sure I agree with it all. But those she mentioned (Roa and Diamond mostly) deserve some looking at.

EDIT: So that's most of the major points since I last came on. It is not really much to go on. Most posts have revealed little and been quite unhelpful.

[Caranlondien]

Originally Posted by Celuien

Good point. I really haven't decided what I'll do should I be fortunate enough to be granted a dream.

Nor have I, and it's something I've been giving a lot of thought to. But the only conclusion I can come to is that if and when I dream about someone, my plan of action will depend on a variety of factors - how far into the game, who I dream about, and what I find out about them.

Nice work, Dancing Spawn, on the analysis so far. I'll be looking at those people, but, of course, it's early on, and there are some people we haven't even really heard from yet. I'm still in the stage where I don't have any well-founded suspicions, so instead I just suspect everyone...

EDIT: cross-posted with Kitanna

[Nogrod]

Ok. I'll get to it too. I have read the whole discussion again and have some remarks.

First of all, I totally agree with Jenny, that the kind of “I agree”-stuff, with no reasoning, or points to clarify their agreement, are suspicious. I would also add, that clearly flawed reasoning is suspicious too. I believe, as Jenny does, that we are all intelligent people, and then flawed reasoning would just point to a deliberate “turning away the discussion” from the real danger for the orcs.

Secondly, I find all who say, that the one can’t do anything on the first day, suspicious (if my memory serves me right, out of the 4 games I have played, we have caught a WW three times on the first day! – for different reasons, to be sure, but nevertheless) – at least, if they use it as a scapegoat to avoid good discussion.

Thirdly: anyone fighting against a good idea is an orc!

The third one put aside, here is, what I can say up to now (the "agree"-issue being the shaman-vote):

Celuien plays very-very carefully, but thoughtfully (those random-accusations put aside).

Roa seems to be her reflective self, making good points. Though I can’t understand, how she could have meddled my line to be one of Naria’s, and then asking for explanations from Naria.

Jenny first goes with the current (“I agree” with some bad reasoning), but then goes on to point some grounded reasons for nervousness. Criticises my idea with a good point. Asks for better focus.

Spawn agrees, but demands reasoned cases. Makes somewhat an analysis on other players (or some of them: notes Diamond speaking nonsense, quite fast on suspecting Roa, gives a kind of benefit of doubt to Findëasëa, wonders Sleepy)

Caranlodien agrees with the concensus – also notes that there is one. But clearly gives a point, why it should be accepted (not revealing the “strategy” to the orcs). Is considerate in her last post.



Grendelien makes the "I agree" move with some points, but also bad reasoning.

Glirdan goes too to the “I agree”, but with very bad reasoning (check #9) – and misreads grossly Roa’s ideas on #5.

Kitanna makes the “I agree”, confessing to go by gut feeling – and then giving very bad reasoning indeed. Continuing, in her last post to grossly misunderstand me again (I'm not pushing it forwards any more: I stated, that I found a flaw on it!)...

Findëasëa makes the "I agree" move with no grounds at all.

Naria makes the "I agree" move with some bad reasoning.


NB. Bad reasoning can here be interpreted in various ways. If I would have analyzed myself, I would have used the same characterisation of my first post at least... It's anything from really flawed reasons to thoughtlessness etc.



Diamond acts suspiciously. Mostly chit-chat (in role, I admit), but otherwise just “I agree” with no reasoning + stating, that there is nothing really to do.

Sleepy announces to be voting in random, or safe today, and then pleads everyone not to kill him...

[Caranlondien]

Nogrod, thanks for the synopsis/analysis. I must add that, as a recent newbie myself, I sympathize with Findëasëa and Grendelien. I don't think I'll vote for either of them today, since, whatever other factors are at work in their posts, there's a "newness factor" at work too. The potential confusion caused by newness should wear off in a bit, and until then, I'll be content to keep an eye on them.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Secondly, I find all who say, that the one can’t do anything on the first day, suspicious (if my memory serves me right, out of the 4 games I have played, we have caught a WW three times on the first day! – for different reasons, to be sure, but nevertheless) – at least, if they use it as a scapegoat to avoid good discussion.

I agree - perhaps the only reason things often don't get done on Day 1 is that people just sit around saying how nothing can be done!

From both Nogrod's and Dancing Spawn's lists, I find Diamond18 most suspicious. I tend to view lots of posts that say little of substance as a cover for guilt. Of course, my ancestors have been known to be wrong on that count...

Sleepy seems suspicious too, but I think he's posted too little to really judge. Please do speak up, my dear barrel of apples! (Mmm, apples sound good...)

[Roa_Aoife]

Naria I am terribly sorry. For some reason I read your post and Nogrod's post as one. That's what I get for rushing in before class....

Spawn, my response to Jenny was as much nonsense as the accusation. As for my ideas on random voting- if at the end of the day we have no suspicion to go on, a moderate spread of random votes increases our chances of catching a wolf. I hope to have something to go on, but if others don't, then so be it. Like I said before, a random vote is better than no vote.

EDIT: Cross posted with Caran