Valinor and Frodo - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Gorhilion · 03-03-2006, 07:13 PM

Why weren't mortals allowed in Valinor? And did Frodo go to Valinor or just visit?

littlemanpoet · 03-03-2006, 09:16 PM

Valinor was the land of the undying. Since Men die, they should not go there.

Frodo went to Tol Eressea, not Valinor. Tol Eressea was an island just east of Valinor, a place that was apparently not under the same ban against mortals as was Valinor. Frodo went there to be healed and then to pass away, as did Bilbo; and eventually Sam.

Elu Ancalime · 03-03-2006, 11:25 PM

I thought The Ringbears and GImli went to Aman too; yet they were still mortal. Tour went to Aman, didnt he? I didnt think they were restricted.

Also, theres an explanation of Mortals in Valinor on the Barrowdowns regular website FAQ.
________
Smoke Kills

Gorhilion · 03-04-2006, 07:33 PM

Thank you.

piosenniel · 03-05-2006, 01:27 AM

Aman was the name given the continent in the uttermost West of the world. The continent of Aman was also known as ‘The Blessed Realm’ and ‘The Undying Lands’ (“undying” because those whose lands these were, were immortal/did not die).

Valinor was the central region of the continent of Aman and was founded by the Valar after the destruction of their ancient home, Almarien. Valinor means ‘Land of the Valar and it was a great plain in the central section of Aman where they had their dwellings – house, halls, gardens, and gathering places. It abutted up against the Pelóri, a mountain range that ran a great distance along the eastern edge of the continent.

Tol Erresëa, Tirion on Túna, Alqualondë were a number of the places where the Elves dwelt in Aman. While the Elves preferred to live in these places for their own reasons, they were not restricted from visiting Valinor.

Map of Aman

The Valar could grant mortals the grace/permission to come to Aman and to Valinor and they did so for a few mortals who were especial friends of the Elves and gave aid in the battle against the darkness and the shadow. They could not, however, bestow immortality on mortals who came to dwell in Aman. And eventually those mortals would have died/passed beyond the circles of the world.

One of the reasons given for mortals not being allowed en masse to Aman can be found in Morgoth’s Ring: ‘Myths Transformed’; Aman and Mortal Men. To make what is quite long, short – Man’s ultimate fate is to depart this world. That fate does not change because he might dwell in Aman. And in fact, dwelling in Aman would be quite upsetting for most men, as they would surely note their own rapid aging in comparison to the beings of Aman. It would cause the men great distress. There would be a growing rage and a sense of injustice about their mortality for the majority of men, instead of the healing, and peace of mind which might be acquired there. "He would not escape the fear and sorrow of his swift mortality that is his lot upon Earth, in Arda Marred, but would be burdened by it unbearably to the loss of all delight."

You can also read somewhat of this HERE - in the Barrow Downs' FAQ, as previously mentioned by Elu Ancalime.

Legolas · 03-20-2006, 09:31 PM

Quote:

I thought The Ringbears and GImli went to Aman too; yet they were still mortal. Tuor went to Aman, didnt he? I didnt think they were restricted.

Those mortals allowed (Frodo, Bilbo, Sam, and Gimli) were exceptions, granted permission after their great deeds in the War of the Ring. In particular, Frodo, Bilbo, and Sam were allowed in hopes of easing their pain as they tried to cope with life without the Ring. Gimli was allowed on account of his great friendship with Legolas, and the favour he found with Galadriel.

Tuor, for his great deeds in Gondolin and obedience to Ulmo, was granted immortality so he would not have to separate from his wife, Idril (Turgon's daughter).

Quote:

Also, theres an explanation of Mortals in Valinor on the Barrowdowns regular website FAQ.

Bravo for the reference!

03-03-2006, 07:13 PM	#1
Gorhilion Pile O'Bones Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 11	Valinor and Frodo Why weren't mortals allowed in Valinor? And did Frodo go to Valinor or just visit? __________________ Ash nazg durbatuluk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatuluk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.

03-03-2006, 11:25 PM	#3
Elu Ancalime Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Anador Posts: 476	I thought The Ringbears and GImli went to Aman too; yet they were still mortal. Tour went to Aman, didnt he? I didnt think they were restricted. Also, theres an explanation of Mortals in Valinor on the Barrowdowns regular website FAQ. ________ Smoke Kills Last edited by Elu Ancalime; 03-03-2011 at 11:19 PM.

03-04-2006, 07:33 PM	#4
Gorhilion Pile O'Bones Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 11	Thank you. __________________ Ash nazg durbatuluk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatuluk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.

03-05-2006, 01:27 AM	#5
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	Aman was the name given the continent in the uttermost West of the world. The continent of Aman was also known as ‘The Blessed Realm’ and ‘The Undying Lands’ (“undying” because those whose lands these were, were immortal/did not die). Valinor was the central region of the continent of Aman and was founded by the Valar after the destruction of their ancient home, Almarien. Valinor means ‘Land of the Valar and it was a great plain in the central section of Aman where they had their dwellings – house, halls, gardens, and gathering places. It abutted up against the Pelóri, a mountain range that ran a great distance along the eastern edge of the continent. Tol Erresëa, Tirion on Túna, Alqualondë were a number of the places where the Elves dwelt in Aman. While the Elves preferred to live in these places for their own reasons, they were not restricted from visiting Valinor. Map of Aman The Valar could grant mortals the grace/permission to come to Aman and to Valinor and they did so for a few mortals who were especial friends of the Elves and gave aid in the battle against the darkness and the shadow. They could not, however, bestow immortality on mortals who came to dwell in Aman. And eventually those mortals would have died/passed beyond the circles of the world. One of the reasons given for mortals not being allowed en masse to Aman can be found in Morgoth’s Ring: ‘Myths Transformed’; Aman and Mortal Men. To make what is quite long, short – Man’s ultimate fate is to depart this world. That fate does not change because he might dwell in Aman. And in fact, dwelling in Aman would be quite upsetting for most men, as they would surely note their own rapid aging in comparison to the beings of Aman. It would cause the men great distress. There would be a growing rage and a sense of injustice about their mortality for the majority of men, instead of the healing, and peace of mind which might be acquired there. "He would not escape the fear and sorrow of his swift mortality that is his lot upon Earth, in Arda Marred, but would be burdened by it unbearably to the loss of all delight." You can also read somewhat of this HERE - in the Barrow Downs' FAQ, as previously mentioned by Elu Ancalime. __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside. Last edited by piosenniel; 03-05-2006 at 04:40 AM.

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03-03-2006, 09:16 PM	#2
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Valinor was the land of the undying. Since Men die, they should not go there. Frodo went to Tol Eressea, not Valinor. Tol Eressea was an island just east of Valinor, a place that was apparently not under the same ban against mortals as was Valinor. Frodo went there to be healed and then to pass away, as did Bilbo; and eventually Sam.