Why'd Sharkey do that?

[littlemanpoet]

Here I am trying to figure out a plotline for an rpg and it suddenly strikes me that Sharkey didn't deign to bother the Four Hobbits returning from the War until they get to Hobbiton. Doesn't turn the Battle of Bywater in his own favor, none of it. What happened? Why didn't Sharkey do more? Couldn't he?

[the guy who be short]

I'd say it was a mixture of underestimation and Lazy Boss Syndrome.

He underestimated the four hobbits in not realising what they'd be able to do before they came to the Shire.

Thereafter, he continued to underestimate all hobbitry, allocating the job of keeping order to his Ruffians. He thought they'd be able to handle it themselves without involving him.

That's how I see it.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I think Saruman knew deep down that, when Frodo returned to the Shire, his Doom was at hand. He makes mention of Frodo tarrying on the road home and thus he is able to do considerable damage to Frodo's home. The way he says this implies that he didn't want to hang around the Shire when the Heroes came back, and his meek surrender of Bag End confirms this.

The attempted murder of Frodo suggests that he wanted to die.

[littlemanpoet]

Wanted to die? Do you really think so? Granted, he's been reduced to a shadow (pardon the Tolkienian pun) of what he had been, but death wish? Do you really think he had it thought out that much?

Come to think of it, Saruman does seem little wiser than an orc at the end, what with his spiteful revenge and sneering way, especially directed at Wormtongue, who I feel is the second most tragic figure in the entire story after Gollum. Uh oh, I suppose there's a thread about most tragic figure somewhere in all this forum, isn't there?

[Bêthberry]

Well, I had always thought it was a spiteful act of meaningless malice on Sharkey's part to ruin the Shire. He'd lost his chance at the big hand, but he still could ruin something that was precious and special to the man/wizard who had defeated him at the larger game. It was also a way to poison Gandalf's victory.

[Elu Ancalime]

I dont remember the exact statment gandalf said, about capable of doing 'a little bit of meaness'........but i suppose he didnt want the travellers to return to the shire if he could still fight in 'some small way.' i dont think he thought he would 'win,' but with Wormtounge turning on hom and jumping him, i think he had no thought of that at all. if wormtounge didnt stick him, who knows......he might have escaped into the East and set up some small tyranny and brought technologu and industry to men, as Weapons and Warefare put it. I think he knew he couldn't achive anymore in the West, he was just a bug up somebodys shirt. ? odd analogy......
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[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Maybe it's not so much that he wanted to die, but I don't think he wanted to continue his miserable life. If he did want to survive and go somewhere else then he would have left as soon as Frodo returned and he would not have tried to murder him. He was basically asking for the Hobbits to kill him by killing Frodo.

And there's that metaphor of the sighing spirit being turned away by the Western wind (metaphor? It might be...) It suggests that Saruman thought the whole affair pathetic and 'sigh-worthy'.

[Elu Ancalime]

I just thought of this: Frodo could not visualize the Shire when the Ring 'controled' him the most on Mt Doom. When the Ring was destroyed, he was sent back into the world he knew, virtually free from what the Ring took from him. Praps when Sauruman saw Isenguard fall so quickly, he realized he was just a wizard fallen from his path. And after the Ring was destroyed, I suppose he might have realized his life was wasted, really, on his dreams. But he took this in spite. Like his long term feeling of when for that moment, those within grasp of the ring felt they coulf fufill their desires with the ring, then realizing they can't. Kind of like Sauruman was drunk for all those years, and then when he was sober, he realized he had done some stupid stuff. [well ive never been drunk or taken a drink-im only 14, so i cant say this from experiance lol]
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[Lalwendë]

Why would Saruman expect Frodo to have become stronger as a result of being the Ringbearer? He was knowledgeable in Ring Lore and might easily assume that Frodo would be entirely incapable of putting up any challenge against him. In addition, Saruman is one of those in Middle-earth who underestimates Hobbits and considers them to be passive and a pushover; this is in fact more or less the case until Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin return and stir up resistance.

As to why he goes there in the first place, he was clearly exploiting the resources of the Shire at an earlier date so this is an extension of that. It is a rich place in terms of potential labour force, and also can provide goods such as food and pipe-weed, valuable resources for someone who wished to build his own army.

I think Saruman does not bother to rouse himself and challenge the Hobbits at the Battle of Bywater as he simply believes he will overcome them at the doors of Bag End. He has the pride and arrogance of a conqueror over a seemingly small people; he allows them to kill his own people as these Men are expendable, he is sitting smugly in Bag End assuming he will win out when they come to challenge him, that is if they even dare to challenge him. When he issues his threat, the Hobbits all recoil in fear until Frodo warns them against this, which shows that Saruman has wrongly guessed at what Frodo will now be like as a result of his experiences.

[Eluchíl]

He was also quite nihilistic. Maybe he just wanted to get in as much as possible without caring about any means or end.

[Holbytlass]

Originally Posted by Eomer

He was basically asking for the Hobbits to kill him by killing Frodo.

Reminds me of suicide by police. Interesting, a death wish, never thought about it before.

One of the most dangerous kind of people are the ones who've lost everything and therefore have nothing to lose. And Saruman fits that bill, lost his domain, his status, his powers (except his voice) even his staff.

I disagree though, I don't think Saruman was wanting to die. I believe his attempt on Frodo was a spite and he was blinded from rational thought of what the immediate consequence would be. Though Saruman was stripped of any powers he still retained his voice and his smarts, in due time he could of as Elu Ancalime pointed out gone to some other parts and start some new mischief.

As far as Saruman leaving before Frodo got there, good point but isn't part of the fun is seeing the reactions of those victimized? He just didn't realize what he would be dealing with.

[Thinlómien]

Maybe Saruman tried to kill Frodo, because he was overcome by sudden anger and/or he hadn't anything to lose really anymore.

I wouldn't say that he wanted to die; I'd say that he didn't care if he died.

[Farael]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Maybe Saruman tried to kill Frodo, because he was overcome by sudden anger and/or he hadn't anything to lose really anymore.

I wouldn't say that he wanted to die; I'd say that he didn't care if he died.

I always thought that the death of Sharkey (Saruman) was more an example of his fall as a wizzard. We see from Gandalf (and Saruman's actions before his fall) that the Istari were somewhat like chess players, always thinking three steps ahead of themselves.

Instead, by attacking Frodo Sharkey (who is no longer called Saruman, perhaps again representing that this character was no longer the Istari he once was?) shows lack of thought, he is over matched and over powered by enemies who do not exactly love him.... he should have talked his way out (even if his voice had lost part of its spell I'd believe he was still powerful enough)

I think the point of that situation happening is to show how low Saruman had fell and how, by trying to take control over the world, he had compromised himself so much that when defeated he lost more than his troops. He lost himself.

[Ophelia]

Oah , dear , the grief ! I've lost my RotK book ! I simply should stop loosing things this easily . Especially I pitty the loss of this book at this very moment for I won't be able to answer the question entered as the thread title correctly as I had a thought that needed to be confirmed . So you'll have to forgive me if something is not right .

The scourging of the Shire was first predicted (not to mention Elronds suspicion) in the waters of the mirror of Galadriel to which , to comfort shocked and angry Sam , the Queen of Lorien said that what was seen in the mirror (predicted as in already supposed to happen) can be changed if you keep on the path of preventing the bad things to happen . And with that thought the hobbits returned to the Shire .

Whilest being a white Wizard , Saruman had powers of foreseeing things to come . I doubt not that he had the vision of the Shire aswell , moreover , it was his destiny . And Saruman , as we all know , was corrupted and had a very clear vision of the victory of Sauron , of which he tried to convince Gandalf aswell . As is mentioned in the books , his mind was set only on destroying and fulfilling his plans towards Middle-Earth as he was convinced that Sauron is behind all his deeds . The confidence satys even after Treebeard and Gandalf drives him out of Isengard for he is convinced that even though one tower has been neutralised , the other will not be defeated . And he was quite certain that Sauron will share his power with him . So after loosing his staff and most of his powers he went on to the Shire for it was destined for him and , in my opinion , because that was one place where he wouldn't need to prove his no more existing power to take controle , it was enough only with his persone there to become an authority . But then comes the big strike - Sauron is defeated , which means Saruman is left without a coverage : his powers were lost and the only one to give him any was gone .

In my opinion after the darkness of Sauron was lifted and the end of all bad things was near , Saruman felt it and fell in some sort of depressive state . All was lost . I don't know if I can do that , but I can say that this depression is seen in the last days of many big tyrans (I better not name them but I dearly hope you do understand of which I speak) , for as it was mentioned in the book (if it wasn't than please point that out) when Frodo and his company came to Shire they found Saruman looking rather pittyful and nought of his former power and glory . And it is very likely to make a final attempt on the edge of end .

So after all the long explaining I must conclude that I believe Saruman simply made this last attempt . Saruman stoped turning events in his own benefits for there was no more reason , nor chance . For now Saruman was destroyed which means that the great evil was gone now for good which means that Saruman had no more actual power for after he was driven from Isengard , he lost any powers he had possesesd and the only power he had now was the one given to him by Sauron and his voice and authority . But Saruman was not a fool and knew these things fade and soon people would understand he is noght but an old man playing a mighty lord . So when Frodo and his company came back to Shire , Saruman had only two choices - to beg to be released (and knowing the nature of hobbits I dare say he would have gotten his release) , which would mean a further life of misery and nothingness for he had no more power and he was old , or to resist and die . So now he shows his intention to die for he chooses to try to resist . He knows he can't deal with all of the hobbits so he decides to to kill one but someone meaningful to all of the hobbits to leave the biggest damage as traces of him in the history . But killing someone as important as Frodo would mean a certain death . And now this speaks in favour of the theory of Saruman being willing to meet his doom . And I am quite certain that it indeed was his intention or if not so , nought more than an act of desperation . But I dare believe he knew all the possible consequences oah too well .

Ophelia