Who's the oldest?

[Morsul the Dark]

well lets see hears a thought for you all to ponder on or laugh at (its meant to be humorous) Gandalf was a pretty old dude in his own right so heres the thing if he were ...hold on i want to word this right....ok...because he died and came back does he have to start over at one or is he still old?

my money is on treebeard...gandalf doesnt exaggerate and he knows tom so its not like he blindly says treebeard is the oldest...we of course must assume we are talking about phytsicly the oldest bombadil is essentially a spirit so its unfair to try him against a physical being

[Garulf]

As far as I can make it out, this is the situation:

1. Elves are the Eldest Children, the First-Born. They were supposed to be first.
2. Aule made Dwarves and awoke them before the Elves were woken (even though the Elves may well have been created before this, just not awake).
3. Yavanna, in response to Aule's creation of the Dwarves, requests that Manwe give her a way of protecting her creations - the trees. Therefore Manwe sends spirits(?) to embody certain trees, who will eventually awake as Ents.
4. Tom Bombadil: an enigma. I am inclined to believe that Tom is the Flame Imperishable, although that's more of a recent revelation and has yet to be discussed (see "Who or What is Tom Bombadil?").

From this situation our conclusions rest on a number of further assumptions:
1. If something is created (Elves, Ents, etc.) and not yet awake, does it still possess life?
2. Furthermore, can the spirits sent to embody the Ents be considered alive before the Elves actually awake the trees themselves?
3. Is Tom actually the Flame Imperishable, or is this just another crackpot theory?

In my opinion, when operating within the context of the entire universe (not just Arda), Elves cannot strictly be considered the oldest, since they only awoke after the Dwarves did and also after the spirits that would eventually become Ents were brought into being. Furthermore, all of this occurs well after Tom (presumably) was sent to fill the Void. However, since we are discussing this in the context of Arda itself our order changes slightly:

1. Tom Bombadil remains first. Even if he is not the Flame, but Ea itself (or a spirit tied up with Ea), he would still be first.
2. The Elves would then be second. They were the first of Illuvatur's children to awake in Middle-Earth.
3. The Ents, although their spirits existed before the Elves, cannot be considered to be any different from other trees (and therefore do not exist as a seperate sentient "race") until the Elves wake them up and teach them language. One can argue that they do count as being older than Elves, since they were presumably speaking their "tree language" before technically awaking, however that argument stretches the definition of "race" in Middle-Earth terms (i.e. by that logic all trees would count as a "race", and neccesarily all other creatures would belong to their own respective races).
4. The order in which Dwarves and Men enter the picture is a toss-up. The Elves knew about Dwarves before they knew about Men, but that is not to say that Dwarves existed before Men.

All of these conclusions operate on the answer to a very complicated and controversial question of, what defines life? Is a being alive when it is created or when it is woken? (I mean, just look at the debate over abortion). Therefore all of these points can be argued, however I think this explanation makes the most sense.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by the mortal elf

I've got three contestants for the oldest person/creature in middle earth, and each has pretty solid evidence.

Who's the oldest?

Tolkien was in Middle-earth before anyone else, so my money's on him being the oldest Middle-earthling.