LotR --- Appendix A: II -- The House of Eorl

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Are you a fan of the Rohirrim? Would you like to know what happened to Éomer and Éowyn's parents? Does Shadowfax' lineage interest you? Then this is your section of the Appendices! Here's the place to read about the past history of Rohan, its friends and foes.

One of the things that I especially noticed here was the fact that the Rohirrim are not nearly so much lower in lineage than the Gondorians think them. Théoden was even born in Gondor! Their relationship is closer than one would think, and we find that made evident at the end of the section.

I found it interesting to see what past feud the Rohirrim had with the Dwarves; Éomer's negative reaction to Gimli doesn't surprise me at all now that I know that.

We read about Helm of Helm's Deep here and of the rivalries of branches of the royal family.

Some background information is also given on Saruman. One interesting sentence that says a lot is: "Saruman began to behave as a lord of Men."

The time table is invaluable for RPers and fan fiction writers, and there are bits of additional information that keep it from being merely a boring list of names and dates.

Did you read this previously? I must admit, I only skimmed it, and was surprised at the details I found when reading it conscienciously this time. Have you made use of the information for writing? What interests you most?

[Formendacil]

A thought that occurred to me regarding the Rohirrim section is that the kings listed here, unlike those of Gondor or Arnor, seem, by and large, to each have a larger amount of personal information known about them. Perhaps it's just the fact that their shorter list means that more about the individuals on it can be showcased, or perhaps it's an indication of the more personal lifestyles they had, whereas the kings and stewards of the Dunedain tended to follow some set guidelines for the course of their lives.

Certainly, the marked contrast between Fengel debauching and ruining the country from Edoras and his heir's sojourn in Gondor and marrying of a Gondorian wife is very different from the "Turin II was the son of Turambar, Turgon was the son of Turin II.." that is pretty much the extent of the Gondorian end of things in the same period. Not that the stewards or Kings of the Dunedain are COMPLETELY devoid of the personal touch, but we are not told about them being "Great hunters, swearing off all animal hunting until the orks are wiped clear" nor do we hear of older brothers and heirs going off and dying in front of a dreaded door.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Perhaps it's just the fact that their shorter list means that more about the individuals on it can be showcased, or perhaps it's an indication of the more personal lifestyles they had, whereas the kings and stewards of the Dunedain tended to follow some set guidelines for the course of their lives.

I think it may again come back to the contrast between the active, moving culture of Rohan and the stagnant culture of Gondor, as seen in the story itself. Of course, this would only be natural in some respects. Rohan is still a relatively young culture and the people seem to have been struggling to implant their culture for many years while Gondor is a long established culture, even ancient if we take Numenor into account.

Perhaps it may also reflect the thirst for storytelling and song that the Rohirrim possess? If the records laid down about their monarchs are full of tales and vivid descriptions then its no surprise. A people who have to struggle to survive will have more to sing about in any case. I can imagine that life and society in Gondor had become quite staid despite the need for vigilance against Mordor.

Originally Posted by Formendacil

heirs going off and dying in front of a dreaded door.

The essay www.alexandriavirtual.com.br/acervo/t/vt42.doc]The Rivers and Beacon Hills of Gondor[/URL] by Tolkien is worth a look. It includes this intriguing idea about the unfortunate end of Baldor:

The Men of Darkness built temples, some of great size, usually surrounded by dark trees, often in caverns (natural or delved) in secret valleys of mountain-regions; such as the dreadful halls and passages under the Haunted Mountain beyond the Dark Door (Gate of the Dead) in Dunharrow. The special horror of the closed door before which the skeleton of Baldor was found was probably due to the fact that the door was the entrance to an evil temple hall to which Baldor had come, probably without opposition up to that point. But the door was shut in his face, and enemies that had followed him silently came up and broke his legs and left him to die in the darkness, unable to find any way out.

I've probably already quoted this, but since I first read the passage it has stayed in my mind as being particularly horrible. Tolkien evidently had some skills in and knowledge of writing in the horror or gothic style; some of this style thankfully does make it into LotR - e.g. Shelob, the Barrow-downs and the words of the Witch King to Eowyn.

EDIT - the link will not work But you can get to it from davem's post here should you not want to buy the relevant issue of Vinyar Tengwar.

[davem]

I think its clear that one of Tolkien’s purposes in this chapter is to ‘echo’ the history of the Anglo-Saxons in the story of Rohan. Perhaps the reason Tolkien went into more depth with the history of the House of Eorl was that Anglo-Saxon history & culture was so close to his heart. Certainly the Rohirrim’s coming into Calenardhon & driving out the Dunlendings is very similar to the Anglo-Saxon’s driving the native Britons west into what is now Wales & Cornwall.

Of course, as Shippey has pointed out, the main difference between the Rohirrim & the Anglo-Saxons was horses - the Anglo-Saxons had few if any cavalry, yet the Rohirrim fight on, travel by & virtually worship, horses. That’s not to say that the Horse wasn’t important to the Saxons.

One thing that did strike me on this re-reading was Eorl’s use of the word ‘weregild’ (‘man price’) :

"Felarof I name you. You loved your freedom, and I do not blame you for that. But now you owe me a great weregild, and you shall surrender your freedom to me until your life's end."

Its odd that Isildur should use that word of the Ring - ie that Tolkien should have a Gondorian of Numenorean descent use not just that word but have that concept. The Gondorians seem to ‘civilised’ to think in such terms. Felarof is (as far as Eorl is concerned) in debt to him for the killing of his father & Eorl demands (& gets) payment of that debt through Felarof’s service to him. Did Isildur think the same way - that Sauron had ‘paid his debt’ to Isildur for the killing of his father by the ‘surrender’ of the Ring? If Isildur did think that way (ie, if he believed in the concept of weregild) then he would have been almost obliged to take the Ring & to keep it in payment of Sauron’s ‘debt’ to him.

But I’m getting sidetracked.

In this section we get to meet Helm Hammerhand (not so called because he carried a big hammer - as in the movies!). Helm is the great hero of this section. He slays Freca with a single punch, & later goes out hunting & killing Dunlendings barehanded. The interesting comment that:

It was believed that if he bore no weapon no weapon would bite on him.

shows quite a superstitious mindset - unless those who ‘believed’ this were Dunlendings & not Rohirrim. What we see here is a belief in some form of ‘sympathetic magic’. In the end, although he dies, he still remains a terrible presence of fear to rohan’s enemies:

Yet men said that the horn was still heard at times in the Deep and the wraith of Helm would walk among the foes of Rohan and kill men with fear.

What we actually see is a kind of ‘perfect’ Anglo-Saxon world - pagan, filled with magic & superstition. It is a world of dragon slayers, mighty warriors, bards & animals that undestand human speech. If Tolkien was indeed trying to supply the English with a replacement for their lost mythology (which is questionable) it is in the story of the Rohirrim that he comes closest to doing that. We even get a glimpse of their ‘religious’ beliefs:

Men said of them that Bema (whom the Eldar call Orome) must have brought their sire from West over Sea.'

‘Bema’ is clearly a figure of myth to the Rohirrim. Whether their ‘religion’ was the same as that of the Elves but with different names assigned to the Valar, or whether it had its own flavour is unknowable, but the kinds of beliefs & practices we’ve seen displayed in this section seems to indicate the latter.

[Aiwendil]

Davem wrote:

Its odd that Isildur should use that word of the Ring - ie that Tolkien should have a Gondorian of Numenorean descent use not just that word but have that concept. The Gondorians seem to ‘civilised’ to think in such terms. Felarof is (as far as Eorl is concerned) in debt to him for the killing of his father & Eorl demands (& gets) payment of that debt through Felarof’s service to him. Did Isildur think the same way - that Sauron had ‘paid his debt’ to Isildur for the killing of his father by the ‘surrender’ of the Ring?

Well, the concept seems at least to have existed in Beleriand in the first age (whence, ultimately, Gondorian culture is derived). From the revised Lay of Leithien:

Though price was set upon each head
to match the weregild of a king,
no soldier could to Morgoth bring
news even of their hidden lair

If Isildur did think that way (ie, if he believed in the concept of weregild) then he would have been almost obliged to take the Ring & to keep it in payment of Sauron’s ‘debt’ to him.

Why? I don't see how the concept of a weregild would oblige Isildur to do any such thing. If the concept is applied to Sauron's slaying of Elendil, then Sauron owes something to Isildur; but surely Isildur is in no way obliged to accept the gift.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

Well, the concept seems at least to have existed in Beleriand in the first age (whence, ultimately, Gondorian culture is derived).

Ok, but Numenor was supposed to be the height of 'civilisation' in Middle-earth, & a 'man-price' is a pretty 'primitive' concept. From Faramir's words to Frodo it seems that the ways of Rohan were considered uncivilised by the Gondorians

Why? I don't see how the concept of a weregild would oblige Isildur to do any such thing. If the concept is applied to Sauron's slaying of Elendil, then Sauron owes something to Isildur; but surely Isildur is in no way obliged to accept the gift.

I did say 'almost obliged'. What I meant was, if Isildur is the kind of person who thinks in terms of weregild he would be looking to take something from Sauron. The most interesting thing to me, however, is that by calling the Ring a 'weregild' he is effectively saying it pays the debt Sauron owes to him, & that he gives equal value to the Ring & his father. Further, he openly states this in an official record.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

Are you a fan of the Rohirrim?

. . .

The time table is invaluable for RPers and fan fiction writers, and there are bits of additional information that keep it from being merely a boring list of names and dates.

Did you read this previously? I must admit, I only skimmed it, and was surprised at the details I found when reading it conscienciously this time. Have you made use of the information for writing? What interests you most?

I have always found this part of the Appendices and that on the dwarves interesting for the 'back story' about the Rohirrim and the dwarves. I wonder what effect it would have had on LotR if these two parts had been included with the foreward material "Concerning Hobbits"?

Originally Posted by davem

I think its clear that one of Tolkien’s purposes in this chapter is to ‘echo’ the history of the Anglo-Saxons in the story of Rohan. Perhaps the reason Tolkien went into more depth with the history of the House of Eorl was that Anglo-Saxon history & culture was so close to his heart. Certainly the Rohirrim’s coming into Calenardhon & driving out the Dunlendings is very similar to the Anglo-Saxon’s driving the native Britons west into what is now Wales & Cornwall.

Of course, as Shippey has pointed out, the main difference between the Rohirrim & the Anglo-Saxons was horses - the Anglo-Saxons had few if any cavalry, yet the Rohirrim fight on, travel by & virtually worship, horses. That’s not to say that the Horse wasn’t important to the Saxons.

Very clearly, the tone and tenor of the Rohirrim derive from the Anglo Saxons. Yet for me the horse riding arises from Tolkien's map making.

If we 'follow' his and Christopher's maps--and I believe Tolkien says in one of his letters that Minas Tirith is about at the same longetude and latitude as Venice--then, Rohan might possibly be seen as the country of the steppes, possibly Ukraine but not necessarily so, the borderland country between east and west where territory was always fluid and over which several tribes and nations have held sway, including Vikings from the north.

This is also the land that bred the cossacks (belonging to several nations), fierce warriors astride horses who created in effect para-military units. Cossacks have a 'negative' history for raiding, pillaging, and cruelty, which of course is not part of the Rohirrim history, but I have always imagined, in the grand sweep of the Rohan grasslands, that Tolkien was imagining something of the fearless horsemen of eastern European history.

No evidence for this, naturally, just one of those tantalizing links imagination bodies forth. It is the Appendix which inspires this for me rather than the narrative proper of LotR.