The Silmarillion Survivor

[Alcarillo]

++Maedhros

Isn't he still High King? After sitting on that throne for so long, I think it's about time that Maedhros passed his crown to another.

[Celuien]

Arrgh. I don't want to vote off Maedhros. He reformed so nicely in the revised version of events given by the Ang-mod.

Unfortunately, Maedhros seems the most logical choice right now. Unless - unless we vote off Morgoth and hope that the problems he caused for the Noldor will vanish with him. After all, I doubt that the original Feanor would have had anything to do with a Kinslaying if not for Morgoth's treachery. Nor would there have been problems between the Noldor in the first place, even before the Doom of Mandos, without him.

So, in hopes that any remaining malice or temptation for Elves to kill each other can be removed by voting off the main source of evil in Arda, my choice for elimination is

++MORGOTH

Save the noble Maedhros!

[Lalaith]

Hmm....the Morgoth argument is a good one but then we lose out on the almighty fight at the end, don't we?
I'm also going to have to go for
++MAEDHROS

Look after poor Maglor, won't you Anguirel?

[Gothmog]

I don't think the eviction of Morgoth will stop the Feanorians lust to own the Silmarils and their urge to fulfil their oath. The possible kinslaying will probably occur as a result of the struggle for the Silmarils and Morgoth part in that tale is already over. If it was possible, an eviction of the Oath of Feanor could stop a kinslaying and leave Maedhros in the game, but there's no such choice...

[arcticstorm]

Doesn't Elwing still have the silmarill? If we can evict her maybe the new bearer will give it up willingly to the sons of feanor still alive. I do not see any reason why their claim to it should have been taken away in this Silarillion, it seems that the Sindar have done the most elf-elf violence. With the exceptions of Celegorm and Curufin thr sons of feanor haven't attacked their fellow elves, so maybe if we evict Elwing they will give MAedhros the silmarill

++Elwing

[Anguirel]

There are two sides to every conflict. If Elwing and her her family can be induced to hand back the Silmaril peaceably, it will not burn Maedhros and war will be stopped without the tragic necessity of evicting the great High King of the Noldor.

Remember Elwing has no feud with the brothers. Indeed, they avenged her family's death by wiping out Telchar's Dwarves. It may be easier to reach a compromise.

Let's look at who is currently influencing Elwing's decision in Sirion.

Ereinion Gil-Galad-an ambitious scion of Fingolfin's house. Stands to gain the High Kingship if Maedhros and Maglor fall. However, a noble and chivalrous character not connected particularly to any desire for the Silmaril.

Salgant-probably jealous of Maglor's harp prowess, but an inveterate coward who would like to avoid war.

Mablung-the last of the Doriath old guard, took part in the hunting of Carcharoth and served the over-mighty Melian. Remembers the Quest of the Silmaril and will resent giving it up.

Cirdan-ancient, wise, peacable, not possessive.

Celebrian-young, but of high and ambitious blood. May resent the Silmaril's surrender, but doesn't have the power to influence Elwing Mablung does.

Earendil-concerned with voyaging and getting help from the West. Does not yet connect this with the Silmaril.

Elrond
Elros-Elwing's children. Remembering her brothers, she will desire to keep them safe, by avoiding war. May be hardened to battle if they die.

So, as an alternative to Maedhros, I suggest Mablung. The voting will close at 7:30 tomorrow morning. I know it's been a long day...I'm a bit snowed under...

++MABLUNG

[Gothmog]

Haven't the sons of Feanor attacked any fellow elves with the exception of Celegorm and Curufin? Wasn't all the sons in on the first kinslaying of Alqualonde? And were not all the brother's present in Doriath when it was attacked? As all but the dead Curufin, Celegorm and Caranthir was present at the battle at the mouth of Sirion? And at last, Maedhros and Maglor was alone in the last slaying at the time of the Silmaril-theft.

And as for the claim of the Silmaril, that can be discussed. One may think that if someone brings back a jewel from the deeps of Angband, from the crown of the Dark Lord himself, then that gives you the right to own the jewel in question. The brothers had forsaken their right to the Silmarils, which was proved when they finally got their hands on them and was tormented by the very touch.

One thing is different from the "real" version: when Maedhros and Maglor were the only survivors of the brother's, the Silmarils in centre of the disagreement was the two from the overthrown Morgoth's crown. Now it's the Silmaril of Elwing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The text above was written as a respons to arcticstorm's post, but now I see Ang has finally stepped forward to defend his dear Maedhros.

To have Elwing hand over the jewel of free will is a good idea. But how will Earendil get to Valinor to raise the Host of Valar in the coming war? And do you really think Mablung has that power? If Elwing wanted to hand over the Silmaril to Maedhros, she'll do that whatever Mablung says. And I doubt he would go as far as kinslaying to get it back if it was given to the last sons of Feanor. He was never such an important character in the Quest. Sure, he will resent giving it up but I can't imagine his words stopping Elwing if she wants to give it away. If we evict Maedhros she will either give it to Maglor or keep it. Either way, we win.

[Lalaith]

Unless Ang is planning something seriously uncanonical, somebody needs to get to Valinor, and that somebody needs the holy jewel to get there.

[Celuien]

Well, I'll go along with our esteemed mod and hope there are enough votes/vote changes to save Maedhros.

--MORGOTH
++MABLUNG

[arcticstorm]

Originally Posted by Gothmog

Haven't the sons of Feanor attacked any fellow elves with the exception of Celegorm and Curufin? Wasn't all the sons in on the first kinslaying of Alqualonde?

remember there was no first kinslaying at Alqualonde, we prevented that from ever taking place

[Anguirel]

Gothmog, the sons of Feanor in this version were not guilty of most of the crimes you throw at them.

We avoided the Kinslaying at Alqualonde; the Teleri sailed willingly.

The sons of Feanor were present in the assault on Doriath-to drive back Morgoth's army! They saved Dior, fighting alongside him. Later, they wiped out the thieving Dwarves.

The turn of events in evictions have changed a lot. Maedhros and Maglor have behaved honourably and wisely and deserve the gem.

As for the help coming from Valinor-how do you know there'll be any? The Valar are quarreling with each other, and of the Valarin Host that fought the War of Wrath, almost every participant

Eonwe
Ingwe
Finarfin

is dead or evicted. Maedhros may be needed to marshal resistance in the uncertain times ahead.

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Hmm....the Morgoth argument is a good one but then we lose out on the almighty fight at the end, don't we?

Possibly. But I guess Sauron could grow into the ultimate bad guy for the big battle if we did vote off Morgoth.

[arcticstorm]

--Elwing ++Mablung
we need to save Maedhros and if he gets the silmaril willingly, we will be able to have a stron final assult on Angband.

[Lalaith]

Oh all right then.
--MAEDHROS ++MABLUNG

[The 1,000 Reader]

I have just realized something very important.

Without a sun or moon, the elves are in serious need of light. torches won't last them forever and starlight, while pretty, may not be enough. The only thing that can provide the light the elves need is the silmaril. Therefore, a kinslaying may happen on any side.

For reasons said above, I change my vote to ++Mablung.

[Anguirel]

My computer's crashed so there may be, ahem, a slight delay...

[Lalaith]

Of a fortnight?

[The 1,000 Reader]

In the meantime, what do you think about my light theory?

[Anguirel]

I certainly hope not. Anyway, Mablung's been evicted.

Mablung-5
Maedhros-4

I take this opportunity to call a break until such time as I have regular Internet access...sorry. If it's too long, I'll seek another mod.

[The 1,000 Reader]

Until Ang gets a good connection, why don't we share our opinions on how the Sil. Survivor has done so far?

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by The 1,000 Reader

Until Ang gets a good connection, why don't we share our opinions on how the Sil. Survivor has done so far?

Anguirel's write-ups and "alternative universe" timeline are excellent reads. I'm also very amused at such a highly biased Moderator. The temptation to jump in and simply open fire on his favourite characters, JUST BECAUSE, is excruciating.

On the other hand, I am not a fan of the multiple deaths in a day, when people other then the voted-for are killed off as well. True, I can see the reasoning within the system that Anguirel has built, but I don't have to like it.

By the way, does anyone have dibs on hosting the next Survivor? Because I'd love to have a crack at it if no one does.

[Eonwe]

though i've been a bit rapped up in werewolf XIII, i enjoyed reading throught the write-ups. excellent job, ang! i liked pretty much everything. especailly ridding the world of the three dreaded c's. congrats go out to all who voted, argued, reasoned, and wheedled for their eviction. well done, my comrades!

i didn't really mind the unvoted for deaths. (except eonwe's, that is. but i can't help that, can i? ) they helped move teh storying in the clearly biased direction ang wanted. very audacious of you, by the way.

all in all, i loved it. and hopefully will rejoin after ww is over.

i would love it if you hosted the next survivor, formendacil! any ideas on themes and such?

[Lalaith]

Wiping out swathes of characters also helps speed the game up a bit....the dramatis personae is so long that we'd be here til Christmas 2006 if Ang didn't exercise some editorial ruthlessness...although I'm still rather sore about Galadriel, myself....and Hurin....

[Tuor in Gondolin]

The multiple deaths seem a bit overdone.

Would the next Survivor be Second Age, Third Age, The Hobbit?
It would be interesting to see how Queen Beruthiel and her cats
(especially the white one) would fare.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Tuor in Gondolin

The multiple deaths seem a bit overdone.

Would the next Survivor be Second Age, Third Age, The Hobbit?
It would be interesting to see how Queen Beruthiel and her cats
(especially the white one) would fare.

If I'm next, I'd like to do the 2nd Age.

If I'm down on a list, and I come out somewhat farther down... I might do the 3rd Age...

Or something else. I have ideas.

[Gothmog]

Without multiple eviction, this story would go on forever. Of course everybody will miss their favourite when he/she/it is evicted without votes, but I think it's necessary. Maybe a bit exaggerated at times, but overall good. And even if Ang has been biased and used the Power of the Moderator for his own good, he's made some sacrifises for us too. Like the C's.

The only thing I haven't enjoyed with this survivor is that I've "lost" like 98% of the evictions. Somehow, everyone I propose for an eviction stays. An example: I started the voting for Maedhros the last day and an avalanche of votes were put for him. Then I return here one day later and everybody has changed their votes! I'm cursed. So from now on I'm going to vote for my favourites all the time

Formendacil: I'm looking forward to see what your ideas will look like.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Here's a suggestion for future Survivor's, make of it what
anyone will. Since a large cast of characters is called for,
how about designating 20 or so as "Survivors", of which
only one per DAY could be voted off. Wouldn't that be
closer to the spirit of Survivor? Other, non-offical "Survivors"
(like the people of Laketown, could be eliminated at any time).

To pick an easy hypothetical example (The Hobbit) Survivors
might come from Thorin and Company (14), Gandalf, Smaug, Beorn,
The Necromancer, The King of the Goblins, The leader of the
wargs, the Stone Trolls, Thranduil, a Giant Spider, Bard, and
the Master of Laketown.

[The 1,000 Reader]

Keep this thread alive until Ang can come back. For now, let's discuss the theories we've made up during the game.

[Anguirel]

1000 reader me old sport...I'm back! And not before time, you might say...

RESULTS OF DAY SIXTEEN

Two enclaves of Elvendom alone survived, Sirion and Ossiriand; and the Silmaril of Elwing threatened to engulf them both in destruction. The Lord Earendil had sailed into the West, hoping to find aid in distant Valinor.

A messenger from Maedhros, High King of the Noldor, arrived at the Havens. Maedhros informed the Lady Elwing that her family was avenged, and sent her the helm of Telchar as proof. He further said that she owed her Silmaril to the prowess of Feanor's line, and requested that it be delivered.

The court at Sirion was in confusion. Gil-Galad, the King of Sirion, advised that the Silmaril be delivered on condition that the House of Feanor abandon the Kingship of the Noldor to him; and Celebrian agreed. Cirdan remembered the war between Celegorm and Dior, and counselled that the Silmaril should be thrown into the Sea to end the strife. Mablung advised a flat refusal.

At last Elwing made her decision. The gem would be given specifically to the peacable Maglor, not his mighty brother, and only on condition that Gil-Galad receive the High Kingship. But Mablung was not satisfied. He drew his sword in the Lady Elwing's presence and seized the Silmaril; but it burnt him as it had burnt at Morgoth, Curufin, Dior and Telchar. Dumb with pain, he ran from the palace and hurled himself over a cliff.

RESULTS OF THE CHALLENGE

The terms of Elwing disquieted the sos of Feanor; for Maglor had no wish for the jewel, and Maedhros regarded Gil-Galad as an upstart. But Maglor gently reminded Maedhros of the Oath, and how it would be better to achieve it by peace than by more fruitless war.

Maedhros was sorely tempted to take the Silmaril when it arrived; and so he bade his soldiers bind him in chains, so that he would not be overcome by madness as Maglor received it. Truly, Maglor's right was unsullied, and it filled the second son of Feanor with radiance; and Maedhros conquered himself. The Crown of the High King was sent to Sirion; but a messenger dropped it and it fell into the Sea. Maedhros and Gil-Galad took this as an omen, and ruled as equals from then on, King of Ossiriand and King of Sirion. And when Elrond was of age, and was inclined to music and lore, Elwing sent him to study under Maglor.

Morgoth, seeing his designs had gone awry, grew wondrous wroth and called the mightiest of the dragons to him, now under Smaug the Magnificent, whose armour was like tenfold shields...and many, many, Orcs. He planned to reclaim the third jewel and slaughter the Elves and remaining Men in Brethil and Dor-Lomin.

Meanwhile, Earendil was met by figures out of distant legend-the Valkyries of the Vanyar, led by Indis and Amarie! They told him that in Valinor, all was still disorder...yet he had to raise some help...and they guided him to the blessed shores.

It's Day Seventeen Google in Valinor! The contestants:

Tribes

VALAR

Ulmo
Aule
Tulkas
Namo aka Mandos
Orome
Lorien
Varda
Yavanna
Nienna
Este
Vana
Vaire
Nessa

MAIA

Uinen
Olorin
Alatar
Pallando

VANYAR

Indis
Amarie

PEREDHIL

Earendil

Challenge the seventeeth: don't worry, most of those Valar will be off the scene again soon. Now-REINFORCEMENTS. Help Earendil get some of those Valinorian types on his side.

[Gothmog]

I guess this is a question of who among Valar will be most reluctant to send the host to the aid of Elves and Men?

It's not Tulkas for sure. He'll be longing for a wrestle with that old Melkor-guy. Ulmo should also be one of those most inclined to send help to M-E, he was one of few who never abandoned it fully. Orome has always been a great hunter of dark creatures so I think he, too, would like a battle vs Melkor. Varda and the Elves has this special bond. She would definitely want to help them.

But Mandos on the other hand, he's always been kind of dull and unhelpful. I wouldn't be surprised if he refused to help the Children of Iluvatar now. After all, he wouldn't like to see the work of his Doom come to nothing. He's one possible candidate.

And what about Aule? His beloved Dwarfes has recently been slain by the Elves and it wouldn't surprise me if he held a grudge towards them now. Why help someone who cut down your children because of some stone? But on the other hand, he if someone should appreciate a nice jewel...

I think I'll be going for either Mandos or Aule, if there's not a better option presented.

[The 1,000 Reader]

++Mandos.

Gothmog has said my reasoning.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

I wouldn't be surprised if some of that dwarf testiness
and holding a grudge was instilled by Aule, so
+ + Aule

[The Saucepan Man]

That sourpuss Mandos gets my vote for Vala most likely to counsel inaction in response to Earendil's plea. He seems to care the least for the travails of Middle-earth's residents and his pronouncements are generally filled only with gloom for them. Less Doom mongering and more active guidance/assistance would make life much easier for them.

Of course, his eviction would beg the question of whom will take responsibility for his Halls. But I am sure that some of the other Valar can step. Lorien and Este, for example, would make it a much more cheery place and instil a much more relaxed regime.

So Mandos' eviction could well have siginificant benefits, in addition to the task at hand.

++ MANDOS

I never liked the guy anyway.

[Lalaith]

I agree about the Mandos stuff but there's a part of me that would quite like to kick off the dreary tie-dye tree-hugger, Yavanna. She's no friend of Men or Dwarves.
But I think Mandos seems to be the consensus.
++MANDOS

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

... but there's a part of me that would quite like to kick off the dreary tie-dye tree-hugger, Yavanna.

But Lalaith, she's female ...

There is an argument for evicting Yavanna, however. Since the Trees were her creation, and the Silmarils are all that remains of their light, she is the most likely to insist upon the return of a Silmaril in return for aid. And that is a condition with which Earendil, in this parallel Silmarillion universe, cannot comply.

So, yes, I would be willing to consider changing my vote to Yavanna ...

[Anguirel]

I am intrigued and amused by the drive against drippy Yavanna.

And with the destruction of Arien and Tilion's crafts, Saucie has an excellent point.

++YAVANNA

[The Saucepan Man]

Oh, go on then, I'll make an exception just this once and vote with the Angmod.

-- MANDOS
++ YAVANNA

[Lalaith]

---Mandos

++Yavanna

[Celuien]

Oh, alright then. Down with the Silmaril-stealing, tree-hugging Vala known as

++YAVANNA.

I only hope Mandos has lightened up some since we last saw him.

[Anguirel]

Trust me...he hasn't!

Voting arbitrarily closed.

Mandos-1
Aule-1
Yavanna-4