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02-11-2005, 01:44 PM | #1 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Standing amidst the slaughter I have wreaked upon the orcs
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Tactical discussion: AFDS (anti-Fell Beast defensive systems)
In addition to trolls and Mumakil, Fell Beasts also present a somewhat thorny problem to tackle (at least Jackson's do. Tolkien's were more reconaissance platforms than actual weapons).
What measures do the noble Captains of Gondor propose to take to meet this threat?
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____________________________________ "And a cold voice rang forth from the blade. Yea, I will drink thy blood, that I may forget the blood of Beleg my master, and of Brandir slain unjustly. I will slay thee swiftly." Last edited by Neurion; 02-11-2005 at 01:50 PM. |
02-11-2005, 01:57 PM | #2 |
Laconic Loreman
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Why all you have to do is look at TTT where Faramir shoots one with an arrow. OR you can go the more difficult (but no doubt manlier) route of beheading one, like thy lady Eowyn.
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02-11-2005, 02:06 PM | #3 |
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
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Didn't Faramir shoot at one in TTT? Seemed that one arrow smarted enough to drive the thing away.
I'd say shoot many arrows then. Fire arrows would be better. Gandalf used his magic flashlight to drive them off, but this may have been specific to the Nazgul and not the Fell Beast, so not sure there. How much weight could one carry? Could a bola-like device be useful to foul-up their wings? Once they are grounded, you might want to have a female Rohirrim nearby. One thing that PJ made me think about that did not occur before I saw the movies was that these beasts weren't just up in the sky making everyone cringe but could be used in very close ground support. |
02-11-2005, 02:11 PM | #4 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Jan 2005
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A grapeshot catapult.
Take a normal bowl shaped catapult fill it with small rubble and sharp bits and let loss. Those nice membranous fell beast wings won't appreciate it. |
02-11-2005, 02:20 PM | #5 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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Quote:
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____________________________________ "And a cold voice rang forth from the blade. Yea, I will drink thy blood, that I may forget the blood of Beleg my master, and of Brandir slain unjustly. I will slay thee swiftly." |
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02-11-2005, 02:22 PM | #6 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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Quote:
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____________________________________ "And a cold voice rang forth from the blade. Yea, I will drink thy blood, that I may forget the blood of Beleg my master, and of Brandir slain unjustly. I will slay thee swiftly." |
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02-11-2005, 02:34 PM | #7 | |
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
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02-11-2005, 03:05 PM | #8 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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*Edit* I just checked RotK again. The Nazgul only attempt to attack men on the ground twice, and are both times driven off by Gandalf before they can actually cause any harm, though it's at first assumed that they wounded Faramir.
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____________________________________ "And a cold voice rang forth from the blade. Yea, I will drink thy blood, that I may forget the blood of Beleg my master, and of Brandir slain unjustly. I will slay thee swiftly." Last edited by Neurion; 02-11-2005 at 03:51 PM. |
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02-11-2005, 03:44 PM | #9 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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02-11-2005, 03:52 PM | #10 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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Quote:
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____________________________________ "And a cold voice rang forth from the blade. Yea, I will drink thy blood, that I may forget the blood of Beleg my master, and of Brandir slain unjustly. I will slay thee swiftly." |
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02-11-2005, 03:55 PM | #11 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Also, you can't deny the utter cool-ness of how they showed the beheading by Eowyn. The sound effects, the visuals, ah, pure enchantment.
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Solus... I'm eating chicken again. I ate chicken yesterday and the day before... will I be eating chicken again tomorrow? Why am I always eating chicken? |
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02-11-2005, 07:50 PM | #12 |
World's Tallest Hobbit
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This would do nicely.
However in the event of the lack of technological ability, I would suggest biological warfare. Naturally, the nasty creatures are like carrion-fowl, so all one needs to do is spread some rotten, disease-ridden meat out on an old battlefield and wait for the suckers to take a lunch break. After ingesting the disease, they opt to use their sick days while your army moves in and kills 'em while they're down and out.
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02-11-2005, 09:08 PM | #13 | |
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
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02-11-2005, 09:36 PM | #14 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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You're worries are over
I hereby present to my esteemed allies of Gondor the weapon that will change your fortunes in this war! Mumak, Troll, Fell Beast, nought can stand against the Gondor Avenger!!
Gondor Avenger
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____________________________________ "And a cold voice rang forth from the blade. Yea, I will drink thy blood, that I may forget the blood of Beleg my master, and of Brandir slain unjustly. I will slay thee swiftly." |
02-13-2005, 09:49 AM | #15 | |
Raffish Rapscallion
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As to how to combat them, why don't we just call in the Eagles, since they so easily beat them up in the RotK movie? |
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02-13-2005, 10:52 AM | #16 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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did we see any eagle actually defeat a fell beast? they all shot to mount doom once they got the call from sauron.
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02-13-2005, 11:19 AM | #17 |
Raffish Rapscallion
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True, but they were giving them hell before that.
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02-13-2005, 01:18 PM | #18 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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In the 'real' (i.e. book) scheme of things, weren't the Eagles Maiar or their equivilant? (sorry if I picked the wrong name). So I suppose they could give the Fell Beasts a good fight......
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02-13-2005, 05:10 PM | #19 | |
Wight
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War is not the answer, War is the question and the answer is yes Quis ut Deus |
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02-17-2005, 01:17 PM | #20 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Two words: Guided missiles.
Okay, okay, so they didn't have guided missiles. Cannons with chain-shots? No? Okay... How about trebuchets? No trebuchets? Sheez! What is wrong with you, Gondor!? What; you expect to defeat them with creative insults?! All right, all right, I guess I'd say go for the wings. Their main advantages are their size and ability to fly. If we could shoot their wings with arrows or catapulted rocks, we could take them out once they hit the ground. What would be really handy was if we could somehow attach strong ropes or wires to the arrows, then shoot them into the fell beast and tie him off. They'd have to be really strong, though, elsewise the beast would break free in a minute. If we could get a lot of ropes on one, we could pull it down to the ground and either behead it or set it on fire. We'd have the nasgul to look out for, though, so maybe fire would be the best bet. Get some of Denny's patented oil and dump it on the monster, then torch away, baby. Did I just write three paragraphs about how to kill a fictional creature? *shakes head.* Man... I need a life. ~Maeg I'm buying Gondor guided missiles.
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03-03-2005, 07:49 PM | #21 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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What we really need to find is a medieval equivalent of an anti-arcraft gun, and so I think this may work:
Take a ballista and mount it on a swiveling platform, then make it so it can be angled up and down. This should be able to take a Fell Beast out with one shot, providing Gondorian soldiers can aim the thing well. Oh, as an alternative tactic one could try to shoot the ringwraiths on their backs with flaming arrows (as I recall, the Nazgul did not particularily like being set on fire...)
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11-16-2005, 07:46 PM | #22 |
Wight
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prepare
No-one had an easy job of Killing them because no-one expected an air force. someone suggested an anti-air ballista, that might work. The suggestion of a bolas also holds water. But the best idea would be a trap. Lure 1 away from the others with an easy target such as a lone rider, seemingly a scout far from any help (the Nazgul seem very organized to me), then knock him out of the sky with the catapult you're hiding. This will also temporarily squish the Ringwraith.
Edit: the Fell beast will also be lured close to the ground
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11-17-2005, 12:12 PM | #23 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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If the Gondorians are good archers why not copy their
(in the book) going after the eyes of the Mumakil?
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11-17-2005, 05:19 PM | #24 | |
La Belle Dame sans Merci
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peace
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12-13-2005, 12:07 PM | #25 |
Pile O'Bones
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Interesting thread! Yes ballistas would be the ultimate defense against a Fell Beast and a whole regiment of Archers but you forget that any military organization would be futile because of the Nazgul's presence and the scream of the Fell Beast. Thus for any attempt to be made on these air attackers, one of such prowess would have to lead the soldiers into holding their positions like Gandalf did at the battle of Minas Tirith.
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Dale.. Tall and mighty we once stood, Like the Gondor Kings of Old, Yet in the distance a wind blew, From the dreaded North, A flaming shadow blanketed us, We were reduced to ruin, Like a bare skeleton of stone. |
12-13-2005, 06:28 PM | #26 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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A little problem with war machinery like ballestae and catapults is that they weren't very easy to aim. The only way to hit the spot you wanted with a catapult was to shoot repeatedly until you hit the mark. Also, you would usually be aiming at a big, tall wall rather than at a comparatively small fell beast. Ballistae I'm not sure but I would guess they were not aimed at all (besides towards the marching lines of the enemy) after all, with one ballista shoot you can probably take down a bunch of people at once. Even if ballistae were "aimable" it would not be an easy process as the fell beasts would be moving around. Archers would be the best choice yet it is said they stayed out bow range.
Biological warfare is a tricky subject, as orcs and humans probably have VERY different immune sistems and I don't know who (outside of Mordor) knew enough about orcs to know what would make them sick. Furthermore, it is possible that whatever makes an orc sick would outright kill a human. And then, how do you deliver your pathogen? say, rotten food... will you invite them for dinner? Poisoning a river could be, but you would need an awful lot of poison, assuming it works on orcs... My solution? take the bus into Mordor, get off at Mt. Doom station and destroy one or two "The Ring"'s Oh, that's not how it happens? then I would guess just try to hold them back with fire and Gandalf, and pray for the best... after all, it is likely that they do not have many fell beasts so even if you loose a few soldiers for each of those you kill, it might just be worth it. |
12-13-2005, 10:33 PM | #27 |
World's Tallest Hobbit
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Delivering the Pathogen?
A Fell Beast could be a tricky target for a large ballista, but as Legolas proved over the Anduin, they aren't invincible. But of course I doubt that Fell Beast was as wary for flying arrows as one would be in a large scale battle and Legolas's hit may well have been a fluke. To insure a good hit you must attract the targets to something they would go for anyway... like a King of Rohan. Make sure every top general or leader has a poisoned dart he could shoot the Fell Beast with... and a fast horse to get away. Of course it's not as if in doing this we're endangering the most important men on the battlefield because the Nazgul would go for them anyway. Why not equip them to protect themselves and countless others.
Now as for discovering what ails the Fell Beasts? Ummm. Ask them? I'll get back to you on that one.
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'They say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end." |
12-31-2005, 07:30 PM | #28 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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The best (logical) way to do in a fell beast would be some form of ranged weapon. Of course, lacking lasers or other such weapontry that could easily make things go in a completely differing direction, the logical idea would be as previously mentioned either arrows or a catapult.
One can assume that the Nazgul and fell beasts were smart enough to stay out of range of these. I would recommand finding either some other way to fly, or getting Gandalf to summon up a windstorm of some sort. If he could. Getting a fell beast caught in a tornado might help get them out of midair. If not, air to air attacks (unfortunately the Gondorians lack x-wings) or the good ol' beheading might work. Not as showy as most movies require, but effective. |
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