28 or so reasons to read the HoME series {and UT} - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

**lindil** · 03-08-2001, 12:17 PM

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The History of Middle-earth series

1, 2 the Book of Lost Tales [ the earliest WWI versions of the Silmarillion]
3 - The Lays of Beleriand [ 20's and 50's versions of the songs of beren and Luthien, Turin and a few bits if Misc. also has commentary by CS Lewis.

4 - The Shaping of Middle-Earth - the Silm as it stood circa 'the Hobbit' era [ early 30's] also the last [ alas] complete Silmarillion

5 - The Lost Road - an abandoned time-travel story that was the seed of the numenorean legends. The Silmarillion as it stood when the LotR was begun in the late 30's. The elvish Etymologies [ a must have for linguists].

6-9 The history of the Lord of the Rings
[subseries] I ahve not looked into these much as my interest is focused on the Silmarillion so i will let others summarise these as they will. Suffice it to say very nearly 100% of JRRT's many changes were all for the better. The highlights are imo in the last volume 'Sauron Defeated [only available complete as a hard back] which has the original ending to LotR [ sam reading a letter from Aragorn to sam's little one's] and a major exposition on Aduniac.

10 - Morgoth's Ring - last major work on the post LotR Silm [ the events in Valinor] and Finrod's dialog w/ andreth, and Laws and customs among the Eldar. Also much speculation on Cosmology and origins of ORcs and such at the end.

11 - The War of the Jewels - last major work on the post LotR Silm [ the events in Beleriand ] plus the Wanderings of Hurin and Quendi and Eldar. Amajor historico-Linguistic work.

12 - Peoples of Middle-Earth - final writings, the history of the akallabeth and the appendices of the LotR [ often longer entries]. Shibboleth of Feanor [ mentioned below].Of Men and Dwarves [see below].

I am a big fan of these books [ most esp 10-12] so I thought I wouldopen a few of the windows into their wide world to those of us who have yet to wander therein.
W/ the publishing of the final Volumes of HoME the the first age is give as much detail as the Third and the motives and depth of plot are fully revealed . so despite the unending alternate versions, footnotes galore and a lesser quality of writing in the early volumes ...
here are 10 'reasons' {and I didn't even metion being able to work on a new silmarillion <img src=wink.gif ALT="

"> }

11 - So you can follow the aragorn's anscestors thread!!!!<img src=smile.gif ALT="

"> <img src=smile.gif ALT="

"> !!!!

10 - The final word on Glorfindel [peoples of ME]

9 - The names and [some ] locations of the seven houses of the dwarves [peoples]

8 - A wealth of lore re: the noldorin princes inc. how feanor killed his youngest son w/ out remorse. [peoples]

7-Quendi and Eldar - an amazing foray into Elvish linguistics,their awakening and let's us in on the existence of the Osanwe-Kenta [War of the Jewels]

6- the Big story of Turin and Hurin [ his post -Angband wanderings] and the power of the curse of Morgoth
[UT and WotJ]

5-Laws and Customs among the Eldar - one of several excellent peices in [Morgoth's Ring]

4- Myth's Transformed despite having the nature of a cosmological Pandora's Box herein lies the origin of Orcs, a beautiful essay Aman,motives in the Silmarillion and details on the nature's,powers and limitations of Morgoth and his Fall.

3-Everything in Unfinished Tales ! some [much actually] of JRRT's most luminous and mature writing

2-The long [primitive ] version of the fall of Gondolin [Book of Lost Tales 2]

1- The dialouge of Finrod and Andreth - the deepest theologically and one of the most heartfelt of all of JRRT's writings. The depthof character of Finrod that was suspected from the Tale of Beren and Luthien and the finding of Men is fully revealed here.

Any others folks want to add ?

Lindil is often found on posting on the Silmarillion Project at the Barrowowns<u> Silmarillion canon , theories and discussion Forum </u> 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.' </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000076>lindil</A> at: 3/23/01 3:37:13 am
[LIST][LIST]

[ October 15, 2002: Message edited by: lindil ]

Orald · 03-08-2001, 12:30 PM

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Re: 10 reasons to read the HoME series {and UT}

All the language in The Lost Road, and a story that doesn't make it in anywhere else.

It seems fate is not without a sense of irony.</p>

Inziladun · 03-09-2001, 12:07 AM

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Re: 10 reasons to read the HoME series {and UT}

The only one I have is #4, The Shaping of Middle Earth. I really should try to find the other ones. I wonder if Amazon.com has them.

Those who will defend authority against rebellion must not themselves rebel. </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000125>Inziladu n</A> at: 3/9/01 1:14:13 am

enep · 03-09-2001, 03:50 AM

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Re: 10 reasons to read the HoME series {and UT}

I now have BolT I + II, but haven't got to II yet. I'm working on the rest, and doubtless your 10 reasons have only convinced me to read them that little bit more, lindil <img src=wink.gif ALT="

">

- enep</p>

**lindil** · 03-09-2001, 08:33 AM

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amazon

Amazon does have them , though that is a ource of last resort for many as they are running many small booksellers out of business.

lindil

</p>

Hannah 3 · 03-09-2001, 09:33 AM

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Re: amazon

Sorry, but...
A reason not to read them:
Lost Tales 1 bored me so badly I didn't get pasyt the second page!!
I love Unfinished Tales, though. <img src=smile.gif ALT="

"> Especially the Istarii chapter.

~*~Hannah~*~,
The caged bird sings with a fearful trill
Of things unknown, but longed for still
And his tune is heard on the distant hills
For the caged bird sings of freedom. ~Maya Angelou, 'Caged bird', 'Shaker, why don't you sing?'</p>

Elenanna · 03-09-2001, 10:06 AM

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Re: amazon

i havent read lt1 either but im around half way thru lt2 i think that lt2 is quite good its sort of odd that sauron {mildly, in a very distant way} originated from a giant cat.

Elen sila lumenn omentielvo.</p>

***Sharkû*** · 03-09-2001, 11:54 AM

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Re: amazon

More poems and songs are a good reason to me.

</p>

Hannah 3 · 03-09-2001, 12:56 PM

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Re: amazon

I was very insulted, actually. My cat would have been angry, too.
You need more? I thought trying to learn all the L.R. ones would be good enough for anyone... <img src=wink.gif ALT="

">

~*~Hannah~*~,
The caged bird sings with a fearful trill
Of things unknown, but longed for still
And his tune is heard on the distant hills
For the caged bird sings of freedom. ~Maya Angelou, 'Caged bird', 'Shaker, why don't you sing?'</p>

**lindil** · 03-09-2001, 03:07 PM

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If it was good enough for ...

Well Hannah, JRRT did write the stuff so that it could maybe some day be read! And he was deradfully disappointed that the Silmarillion would not be included in an edition w/ the LotR [it would have had to come w/ a free cart to haul all of it's 2000 or so pages around ,but that is another story].
Clealy HoME and UT [and the Silmarillion -for that matter] are not to the taste of all.
but for those to whom such tales are dear to the heart I will offer another 5 [I am in a bit of a hurry]

1]Aelfwines story in II about coming to the lonely Isle.
2] The greatly expanded language dictionaries /index's
3]The essay's on the Palantiri,Istari and Druedain
4] the original [?] epilog to the LotR
5] Dwarves and Men in Peoples of Middle-Earth

and here is 6] for good measure
6] just seeing the transfrmation of the Silm From Lost Tales through 7 [!] and sometimes more succsessive phases, each one gaining in beauty and strength [if not in detail and length].

Lindil is often found on posting on the Silmarillion Project at the Barrowowns<u> Silmarillion canon , theories and discussion Forum </u> 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.' </p>

Zoe · 03-09-2001, 06:09 PM

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Re: If it was good enough for ...

There's language info in HoME? Which one?

I want! I want! <img src=smile.gif ALT="

">

(Lindil- The mere mention of the words "The greatly expanded language dictionaries /index's" has made me decide that I ought to read at least some of HoME. Although, your other 15 arguments are also pretty good ones, too.)

</p>

Elenanna · 03-09-2001, 09:24 PM

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Re: If it was good enough for ...

same here <img src=smile.gif ALT="

">

Elen sila lumenn omentielvo.</p>

**lindil** · 03-10-2001, 03:22 AM

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The Lost Road and vol. 9

The Lost Road has the Etymologies [70 or so pages of an Elvish dictionary of just pre-LotR vintage , and the Lhammas.The last of the HoME volumes treating of the LotR hasthe notion club papers with a major section on Aduniac [by report - I have yet to read much of Volumes 6-9].
Hope that helps.
One idea that I hope to emulate is to go through the index's of LotR/Silm. and UT and create a wordlist/dictionary and then slowly supplementing it w/ HoME [working backwards from 12 >5].

lindil

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Mithrandir · 03-16-2001, 01:45 PM

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Re: 10 reasons to read the HoME series {and UT}

This might sound like the dumbest question ever, but what is the HoME series?

</p>

KayQy · 03-16-2001, 02:50 PM

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Re: 10 reasons to read the HoME series {and UT}

The History of Middle Earth by Christopher Tolkien, basically taking all the unpublished notes his father left behind and turning them into something that we can follow. It includes the Book of Lost Tales 1 and 2, and 10 other books. I'll let someone who's read more than bits and pieces take it from there. <img src=ohwell.gif ALT=":\">

They cannot conquer forever!</p>

Mithrandir · 03-16-2001, 05:00 PM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/redeye.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: 10 reasons to read the HoME series {and UT}

Wow, I never even knew that those books even existed. Thanks, KayQy! <img src=biggrin.gif ALT="

">

</p>

**lindil** · 03-17-2001, 08:26 AM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/redeye.jpg" align=absmiddle> I will try...

and put a brief resume of HoME and it's contents over lunch.

lindil

</p>

Hannah 3 · 03-17-2001, 09:05 AM

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Re: If it was good enough for ...

Actually, I did really enjoy the Silmarilion. <img src=smile.gif ALT="

">
My sister suggested that I might find Lost Tales 2 better than 1, even though they are intended to be one book she says it's a lot more interesting.
Lindil - I'm sure someone must have made that kind of dictionary, wouldn't they? I mean, I'm working on an elvish - english dictionary in school, though it's pretty feeble, having less than a hundred words. Elenna did better, she copied the index of the Silmarilion out <img src=wink.gif ALT="

"> but I'm sure I'm not the only one who's tried. I have no hopes of ever including all the elvish in the Silmarilion, L.R., letters, HoMe and all the rest, but I'm sure there are some people out there far less lazy and more ambitious.

edit: dicovered!

http://shire.ipmce.ru/personal/tolkien/dictnry.htmshire.ipmce.ru/personal/t...ictnry.htm</a>

~*Hannah*~ If one puts an idea forward to a true englishman - always a rash thing to do - he never dreams of considering whether the idea is right or wrong. The only thing he considers of any importance is whether one believes in it oneself. ~ Oscar Wilde</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000108>Hannah 3</A>  <IMG SRC=http://www.clipartcastle.com/anim3/shining_star.gif BORDER=0 WIDTH=10 HEIGHT=10> at: 3/17/01 10:30:12 am

**lindil** · 03-17-2001, 09:30 AM

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it has been done

I think it is somewhat of a right of passage for anyone who dcides they want to learn Sindarin or Quenya to create a dictionary on whatever scale
there are certainly several examples of such on the net, and I have the humble beginings of one at my board [letters' a' nd 'b ' from Lost road, and the Silm. I hope to incorporate UT and LotR words this eve and then add 1 lettera week and then start allover again w/ the LotR words i come across, Letters and volumes 10-12 of HoME and there are also a few odds and endsof Vocabulary of JRRT being published by the Vinyar Tengwar journal . so yes there is much being done,has been done and could be done!
As daunting as something like a dict. might seem if you kept a set of index cards w/ you when you read and just noted words as they came up and then look up their meanings at the end, you would have a fair sized dicyt. in a year or so eh?

Lindil is often found on posting on the Silmarillion Project at the Barrowowns and working on his own board Osanwe-Kenta[/i]- 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.' </p>

Hannah 3 · 03-17-2001, 10:43 AM

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Re: it has been done

My intension when I began mine was to learn it, not just have a list, which is one of the reasons it's so small - I actually know every word on it and could say it on the spot. <img src=smile.gif ALT="

"> Of course, some people would make the dictionary first, then learn it, but I don't work that way...

~*Hannah*~ If one puts an idea forward to a true englishman - always a rash thing to do - he never dreams of considering whether the idea is right or wrong. The only thing he considers of any importance is whether one believes in it oneself. ~ Oscar Wilde</p>

Orald · 03-17-2001, 03:26 PM

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Re: it has been done

I think it is mentioned in another thread, but Ardalambion is a great source for any language dealing with ME.

Thus even as Eru spoke to us shall beauty not before conceived be brought into Eä, and evil be good to have been.</p>

**lindil** · 03-17-2001, 07:20 PM

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lamba

My suggestion for whatever it was worth was to both at the same time.

lindil

</p>

**lindil** · 03-23-2001, 04:03 AM

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Re: 11 !!!! reasons to read the HoME series {and UT}

#11 - So you can follow the aragorn's anscestors thread!!!! <img src=smile.gif ALT="

"> <img src=smile.gif ALT="

"> !!!

Lindil is oft found on posting on the Silmarillion Project at the Barrowdowns and working on a new Elven/Christian discussion board<a href="http://beta.ezboard.com/bosanwekenta" >Osanwe-Kenta</a> 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.' </p>

KayQy · 03-23-2001, 07:18 AM

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Another good excuse (I mean reason) to read HoME

So you can write a linguistics paper on Qwenya and Sindarin and all the other languages Tolkien invented!

</p>

03-23-2001, 09:51 AM

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Re: Another good excuse (I mean reason) to read HoME

The Lay of Leithian! <img src=smile.gif ALT="

">

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000317>cian</A> at: 3/23/01 10:41:59 pm

Elenanna · 03-23-2001, 10:57 PM

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Re: Another good excuse (I mean reason) to read HoME

the lay of leithan? Its got that?!! i must get my hands on it where can i get it, do you think a local library would have it?

Visit me at <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/blorien16140>Lorien</a> friend of <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/bamongwareth>Amon Gwareth</a> and <a href=http://pub2.ezboard.com/brivendel>Rivendel</a> find my corpse at <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi>The Barrowdowns</a> </p>

**lindil** · 03-24-2001, 07:07 AM

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Re: Another good excuse (I mean reason) to read HoME

The Lay of Leithian [ such as it is] can be found in the 'Lays of Beleriand' HoME #3 .
It is easily available [in the US ] in paperback and still seen here in SF in trade paperback. Itiis the hardest of all HoME volumes to locate in HB.
As to your library , my palantir is only showing burning hands at the moment.

<img src=smile.gif ALT="

">

Lindil is oft found on posting on the Silmarillion Project at the Barrowdowns and working on a new Elven/Christian discussion board<a href="http://beta.ezboard.com/bosanwekenta" >Osanwe-Kenta</a> 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.' </p>

**lindil** · 10-15-2002, 12:44 PM

5 more reasons.

1 -A wee bit longer Tale of aragorn and Arwen in XII [peoples]
2 - The origin[s] of the Narn i hin Hurin in XII

3- Notes on motives in the Silmarillion [X]
vey fascinating writing on how Sauron [ in the 2nd age] was more powerful than Morgoth [at the end of the First Age].
4 - Tal-Elmar - an interesting begining of a tale of the coasts of 'Gondor' in the 2nd age. Shows how men saw the Numenoreans.

5- Shibboleth of Feanor, Elvish history and linguistics in a potent mix.

It seems as I re-read alot of folks posts above that many were reading thr Books of Lost Tales first.
That may work well for some, but keep in mind they are exceedingly primitive in compositional style compared to [ if very fleshed out]the later writings.

Many foks [ myself included] steer folks towards the later volumes first 10-12 which document the Silm in it's final phases [10 and 11] and the lotR appendices and a variety od fascinating late writings [12].

Unfinshed tales is reall a collection of materials that would have all eneded up in 10-12, had it not been put out first, before CRT decided to do a complete history of Middle-Earth. So fortunately [to my mind] he polished up some of UT for us.

Aiwendil · 10-15-2002, 08:51 PM

Quote:

how feanor killed his youngest son w/ out remorse.

I know you said this over a year ago, Lindil, but I can't help but to nitpick and raise meaningless points of contention. It's my nature. From "Shibboleth":

Quote:

'That ship I destroyed first,' said Feanor (hiding his own dismay)

I think he was in fact remorseful about this. It is interesting in that it is the only time (that I can recall) that Feanor shows any doubt concerning one of his actions, or feels any guilt.

I feel obliged now to contribute something to the actual topic of this thread. I can say only this: you have not lived until you have read the Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, and the History of Middle-earth. Drop everything and read them now, from beginning to end. If you think I'm exaggerating, you have not read them. I envy you; you still have the best literary experience of your life ahead of you.

**lindil** · 10-16-2002, 07:43 AM

Thanks for the correction !
I missed the catch in Feanor's reaction.

And very strong words of praise and recommendation.

Although I hesitate on the begining to end aspect [ at least for the first time] as alot of folks seem to get bagged down in LostTales.

But Aiwendil is right, it is [ or I should say caontains] "the best literary experience of your life."

davem · 10-16-2002, 08:04 AM

Like Lindil, I can't go along with reading HOME cover to cover. I really think that would be too much for most people. Can I expand this - Do you think you have to read the 12 books in the published order? I read vols 6-9 & 12 first as they deal with the composition of LotR, then read lost Tales & the Lays, then Lost Road in vol 5, Notion Club papers in vol 9, & then the last 150 pps of vol 10, with the Athrabeth, etc, & the rest, 4, 5, 10 & 11 in order. Has anyone else read them in the 'wrong' order or am I unique?

**lindil** · 10-16-2002, 08:38 AM

There def is much to be said for the idea of following the thread of the Legendarium from begining to end, although i have not done it.

I give a recommendation for the order of exploring HoME [ which I have seen other HoMErs corraborate] in the opening post [ I think] as well as new synopsis of HoME.

Aiwendil · 10-16-2002, 06:55 PM

Personally, I think it is definitely best to read the series in order the first time through. One of the chief attractions, I think, is to see how the Legendarium evolved over time. You definitely miss something in this regard if you start in the middle. I realize of course that many people don't want to do this, which is fine; nonetheless, I think they're missing something. Then again, I'm one of those people that really enjoys the extensive commentary and copious notes; in fact, I rather wish Christopher Tolkien had provided more extensive commentary in some places. So I suppose I'm somewhat atypical.

GildorInglorion · 10-18-2002, 12:25 PM

I can't summon the strenght to read HOME, it's just to hard to find interesting information between all comments.

UT is better, at least some chapters. The problem is, I don't know what chapters in HOME that contain much new interesting information. The first post gave me some good hints, can anyone be more specific?

MuHaha, I have a bookstore nearby with all twelve HOME books. Money is the only problem...

**lindil** · 10-18-2002, 12:53 PM

I will try and go back and flesh out the outline a bit [to night I hope], or you could be wise and take Aiwendil's word for it that HoME in general is the ultimate JRRT read.

One thing you can def do is skip the footnotes, intro's and commentary till you really care about a given section!

If you want the full view of the Legendarium from beging to end then read them chronologically. If you want what many consider the [majority at least]of the gold nuggets then much more material as good as UT lies within the last 3 volumes.

[ October 18, 2002: Message edited by: lindil ]

[ October 18, 2002: Message edited by: lindil ]

**lindil** · 10-20-2002, 05:41 PM

Well it turns out I shall not be able to elaborate on the HoME contents after all, so may I recommend simply skip the commentary unless you read something you wish to have commentary upon?

Perhaps someone else can post something on the lines of what GildorInglorion wishes.

Temporal constraints require that I keep all of my internet energies and time confined to the Silm project for the forseeable future.

Aiwendil · 10-20-2002, 09:17 PM

Quote:

One thing you can def do is skip the footnotes, intro's and commentary till you really care about a given section!

Blasphemy! The footnotes are the most important part!

Well, not really. But when I say that I read the History of Middle-earth from beginning to end (and recommend it to others), I mean all of it. Every word, in order, from the Introduction to Unfinished Tales to the little paragraph of commentary at the end of 'Tal-Elmar'. Yes, I'm a bit obsessed and no, I don't expect many others to read it that way. Nonetheless I recommend it.

**lindil** · 02-09-2003, 08:52 AM

Re: blasphemy!

well, I am not of course saqying that they are not worth reading, it is suggested onlt to expedite the series for those who easily get bogged down.

In UT especially the footntes and commentary often contian the most obscure and fascinating bits.

Inderjit Sanghera · 02-09-2003, 09:08 AM

The footnotes to 'Of Dwarves and men' are brilliant as well.

Inderjit Sanghera · 02-09-2003, 11:57 AM

“8 - A wealth of lore re: the Noldorin princes inc. how Feanor killed his youngest son w/ out remorse. [peoples]”-originally posted by lindil.

Your making Feanor sound out to be some kind of remorseless monster! I mean come one, I know he was bad, but not that bad. He accidentally killed his son, as he didn’t know that he was sleeping on the ships beforehand.
And he did feel some remorse;

“ That ship I destroyed first” he said, hiding his own dismay.

Thanks for re-opening the topic, BTW!

Here are some of my reasons:

1. Feminism in M-E (Aldarion and Erendis.) I’m not a woman, but I do sympathise, in some ways with non-radical feminism. And it made me laugh.
2. More stories on Finwe and his house! (Home 4,5, 10, 11,12, esp. the Shibboleth of Feanor)
3. ‘Tal-Elmar’ -shows what life may have been like for the Haradrim.
4. ‘Bilbo was getting married’ Originally Bilbo was leaving the Shire to get married! Thank god for Tolkien changing that!
5. HoME 4 shows us early geographical conceptions of Arda.
6. Great psychological discussion in ‘Myths Transformed and Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth’
7. More stories on the first age and al the ages of the Valar.

03-09-2001, 08:33 AM	#5
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seeker of the Straight Path Posts: 449</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> amazon Amazon does have them , though that is a ource of last resort for many as they are running many small booksellers out of business. lindil </p> __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

03-09-2001, 09:33 AM	#6
Hannah 3 Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 64	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased Posts: 3</TD><TD><img src=http--images.neopets.com-images-newfirefaerie.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: amazon Sorry, but... A reason not to read them: Lost Tales 1 bored me so badly I didn't get pasyt the second page!! I love Unfinished Tales, though. <img src=smile.gif ALT=""> Especially the Istarii chapter. ~~Hannah~~, The caged bird sings with a fearful trill Of things unknown, but longed for still And his tune is heard on the distant hills For the caged bird sings of freedom. ~Maya Angelou, 'Caged bird', 'Shaker, why don't you sing?'</p>

03-09-2001, 12:56 PM	#9
Hannah 3 Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 64	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased Posts: 5</TD><TD><img src=http--images.neopets.com-images-newfirefaerie.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: amazon I was very insulted, actually. My cat would have been angry, too. You need more? I thought trying to learn all the L.R. ones would be good enough for anyone... <img src=wink.gif ALT=""> ~~Hannah~~, The caged bird sings with a fearful trill Of things unknown, but longed for still And his tune is heard on the distant hills For the caged bird sings of freedom. ~Maya Angelou, 'Caged bird', 'Shaker, why don't you sing?'</p>

03-09-2001, 03:07 PM	#10
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seeker of the Straight Path Posts: 451</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> If it was good enough for ... Well Hannah, JRRT did write the stuff so that it could maybe some day be read! And he was deradfully disappointed that the Silmarillion would not be included in an edition w/ the LotR [it would have had to come w/ a free cart to haul all of it's 2000 or so pages around ,but that is another story]. Clealy HoME and UT [and the Silmarillion -for that matter] are not to the taste of all. but for those to whom such tales are dear to the heart I will offer another 5 [I am in a bit of a hurry] 1]Aelfwines story in II about coming to the lonely Isle. 2] The greatly expanded language dictionaries /index's 3]The essay's on the Palantiri,Istari and Druedain 4] the original [?] epilog to the LotR 5] Dwarves and Men in Peoples of Middle-Earth and here is 6] for good measure 6] just seeing the transfrmation of the Silm From Lost Tales through 7 [!] and sometimes more succsessive phases, each one gaining in beauty and strength [if not in detail and length]. Lindil is often found on posting on the Silmarillion Project at the Barrowowns<u> Silmarillion canon , theories and discussion Forum </u> 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.' </p> __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

03-09-2001, 09:24 PM	#12
Elenanna Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 98	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones Posts: 25</TD><TD><img src=http://community.webshots.com/photo/1204419/1213028 WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: If it was good enough for ... same here <img src=smile.gif ALT=""> Elen sila lumenn omentielvo.</p>

03-08-2001, 12:17 PM	#1
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	28 or so reasons to read the HoME series {and UT} <font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seeker of the Straight Path Posts: 448</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> The History of Middle-earth series 1, 2 the Book of Lost Tales [ the earliest WWI versions of the Silmarillion] 3 - The Lays of Beleriand [ 20's and 50's versions of the songs of beren and Luthien, Turin and a few bits if Misc. also has commentary by CS Lewis. 4 - The Shaping of Middle-Earth - the Silm as it stood circa 'the Hobbit' era [ early 30's] also the last [ alas] complete Silmarillion 5 - The Lost Road - an abandoned time-travel story that was the seed of the numenorean legends. The Silmarillion as it stood when the LotR was begun in the late 30's. The elvish Etymologies [ a must have for linguists]. 6-9 The history of the Lord of the Rings [subseries] I ahve not looked into these much as my interest is focused on the Silmarillion so i will let others summarise these as they will. Suffice it to say very nearly 100% of JRRT's many changes were all for the better. The highlights are imo in the last volume 'Sauron Defeated [only available complete as a hard back] which has the original ending to LotR [ sam reading a letter from Aragorn to sam's little one's] and a major exposition on Aduniac. 10 - Morgoth's Ring - last major work on the post LotR Silm [ the events in Valinor] and Finrod's dialog w/ andreth, and Laws and customs among the Eldar. Also much speculation on Cosmology and origins of ORcs and such at the end. 11 - The War of the Jewels - last major work on the post LotR Silm [ the events in Beleriand ] plus the Wanderings of Hurin and Quendi and Eldar. Amajor historico-Linguistic work. 12 - Peoples of Middle-Earth - final writings, the history of the akallabeth and the appendices of the LotR [ often longer entries]. Shibboleth of Feanor [ mentioned below].Of Men and Dwarves [see below]. I am a big fan of these books [ most esp 10-12] so I thought I wouldopen a few of the windows into their wide world to those of us who have yet to wander therein. W/ the publishing of the final Volumes of HoME the the first age is give as much detail as the Third and the motives and depth of plot are fully revealed . so despite the unending alternate versions, footnotes galore and a lesser quality of writing in the early volumes ... here are 10 'reasons' {and I didn't even metion being able to work on a new silmarillion <img src=wink.gif ALT=""> } 11 - So you can follow the aragorn's anscestors thread!!!!<img src=smile.gif ALT=""> <img src=smile.gif ALT=""> <img src=smile.gif ALT=""> !!!! 10 - The final word on Glorfindel [peoples of ME] 9 - The names and [some ] locations of the seven houses of the dwarves [peoples] 8 - A wealth of lore re: the noldorin princes inc. how feanor killed his youngest son w/ out remorse. [peoples] 7-Quendi and Eldar - an amazing foray into Elvish linguistics,their awakening and let's us in on the existence of the Osanwe-Kenta [War of the Jewels] 6- the Big story of Turin and Hurin [ his post -Angband wanderings] and the power of the curse of Morgoth [UT and WotJ] 5-Laws and Customs among the Eldar - one of several excellent peices in [Morgoth's Ring] 4- Myth's Transformed despite having the nature of a cosmological Pandora's Box herein lies the origin of Orcs, a beautiful essay Aman,motives in the Silmarillion and details on the nature's,powers and limitations of Morgoth and his Fall. 3-Everything in Unfinished Tales ! some [much actually] of JRRT's most luminous and mature writing 2-The long [primitive ] version of the fall of Gondolin [Book of Lost Tales 2] 1- The dialouge of Finrod and Andreth - the deepest theologically and one of the most heartfelt of all of JRRT's writings. The depthof character of Finrod that was suspected from the Tale of Beren and Luthien and the finding of Men is fully revealed here. Any others folks want to add ? Lindil is often found on posting on the Silmarillion Project at the Barrowowns<u> Silmarillion canon , theories and discussion Forum </u> 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.' </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000076>lindil</A> at: 3/23/01 3:37:13 am [LIST][LIST] [ October 15, 2002: Message edited by: lindil ] __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

03-08-2001, 12:30 PM	#2
Orald Shadow of Malice Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: right behind you Posts: 843	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shadow of Malice Posts: 652</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: 10 reasons to read the HoME series {and UT} All the language in The Lost Road, and a story that doesn't make it in anywhere else. It seems fate is not without a sense of irony.</p>

03-09-2001, 12:07 AM	#3
Inziladun Gruesome Spectre Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Heaven's doorstep Posts: 8,037	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight Posts: 145</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: 10 reasons to read the HoME series {and UT} The only one I have is #4, The Shaping of Middle Earth. I really should try to find the other ones. I wonder if Amazon.com has them. Those who will defend authority against rebellion must not themselves rebel. </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000125>Inziladu n</A> at: 3/9/01 1:14:13 am __________________ Music alone proves the existence of God.

03-09-2001, 03:50 AM	#4
enep The Ghastly Leprechaun Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 406	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dûm Posts: 434</TD><TD><img src=http://dodgywebsite.homestead.com/files/Skeleton_09.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: 10 reasons to read the HoME series {and UT} I now have BolT I + II, but haven't got to II yet. I'm working on the rest, and doubtless your 10 reasons have only convinced me to read them that little bit more, lindil <img src=wink.gif ALT=""> - enep</p> __________________ - enep

03-09-2001, 10:06 AM	#7
Elenanna Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 98	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones Posts: 21</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: amazon i havent read lt1 either but im around half way thru lt2 i think that lt2 is quite good its sort of odd that sauron {mildly, in a very distant way} originated from a giant cat. Elen sila lumenn omentielvo.</p>

03-09-2001, 11:54 AM	#8
*Sharkû* Hungry Ghoul Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,719	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hungry Ghoul Posts: 755</TD><TD><img src=http://www.tolkiens-legacy.de/draugen.jpg WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: amazon More poems and songs are a good reason to me. </p>

03-09-2001, 06:09 PM	#11
Zoe Wight Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 223	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dûm Posts: 262</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: If it was good enough for ... There's language info in HoME? Which one? I want! I want! <img src=smile.gif ALT=""> (Lindil- The mere mention of the words "The greatly expanded language dictionaries /index's" has made me decide that I ought to read at least some of HoME. Although, your other 15 arguments are also pretty good ones, too.) </p>

03-10-2001, 03:22 AM	#13
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seeker of the Straight Path Posts: 456</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> The Lost Road and vol. 9 The Lost Road has the Etymologies [70 or so pages of an Elvish dictionary of just pre-LotR vintage , and the Lhammas.The last of the HoME volumes treating of the LotR hasthe notion club papers with a major section on Aduniac [by report - I have yet to read much of Volumes 6-9]. Hope that helps. One idea that I hope to emulate is to go through the index's of LotR/Silm. and UT and create a wordlist/dictionary and then slowly supplementing it w/ HoME [working backwards from 12 >5]. lindil </p> __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

03-16-2001, 01:45 PM	#14
Mithrandir Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 75	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased Posts: 4</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: 10 reasons to read the HoME series {and UT} This might sound like the dumbest question ever, but what is the HoME series? </p>

03-16-2001, 02:50 PM	#15
KayQy Wight Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Currently Spain Posts: 250	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight Posts: 168</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: 10 reasons to read the HoME series {and UT} The History of Middle Earth by Christopher Tolkien, basically taking all the unpublished notes his father left behind and turning them into something that we can follow. It includes the Book of Lost Tales 1 and 2, and 10 other books. I'll let someone who's read more than bits and pieces take it from there. <img src=ohwell.gif ALT=":\"> They cannot conquer forever!</p> __________________ Do you really want to know / Or are you a little scared, Afraid that God is not exactly what you'd have Him be? --OC Supertones, "Wilderness" "Good sense about trivialities is better than nonsense about things that matter." -- Max Beerbohm

03-16-2001, 05:00 PM	#16
Mithrandir Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 75	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased Posts: 5</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/redeye.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: 10 reasons to read the HoME series {and UT} Wow, I never even knew that those books even existed. Thanks, KayQy! <img src=biggrin.gif ALT=""> </p>

03-17-2001, 08:26 AM	#17
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seeker of the Straight Path Posts: 492</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/redeye.jpg" align=absmiddle> I will try... and put a brief resume of HoME and it's contents over lunch. lindil </p> __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

03-17-2001, 09:05 AM	#18
Hannah 3 Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 64	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones Posts: 24</TD><TD><img src=http--images.neopets.com-images-newfirefaerie.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: If it was good enough for ... Actually, I did really enjoy the Silmarilion. <img src=smile.gif ALT=""> My sister suggested that I might find Lost Tales 2 better than 1, even though they are intended to be one book she says it's a lot more interesting. Lindil - I'm sure someone must have made that kind of dictionary, wouldn't they? I mean, I'm working on an elvish - english dictionary in school, though it's pretty feeble, having less than a hundred words. Elenna did better, she copied the index of the Silmarilion out <img src=wink.gif ALT=""> but I'm sure I'm not the only one who's tried. I have no hopes of ever including all the elvish in the Silmarilion, L.R., letters, HoMe and all the rest, but I'm sure there are some people out there far less lazy and more ambitious. edit: dicovered! http://shire.ipmce.ru/personal/tolkien/dictnry.htmshire.ipmce.ru/personal/t...ictnry.htm</a> ~*Hannah*~ If one puts an idea forward to a true englishman - always a rash thing to do - he never dreams of considering whether the idea is right or wrong. The only thing he considers of any importance is whether one believes in it oneself. ~ Oscar Wilde</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000108>Hannah 3</A>  <IMG SRC=http://www.clipartcastle.com/anim3/shining_star.gif BORDER=0 WIDTH=10 HEIGHT=10> at: 3/17/01 10:30:12 am

03-17-2001, 09:30 AM	#19
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seeker of the Straight Path Posts: 495</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> it has been done I think it is somewhat of a right of passage for anyone who dcides they want to learn Sindarin or Quenya to create a dictionary on whatever scale there are certainly several examples of such on the net, and I have the humble beginings of one at my board [letters' a' nd 'b ' from Lost road, and the Silm. I hope to incorporate UT and LotR words this eve and then add 1 lettera week and then start allover again w/ the LotR words i come across, Letters and volumes 10-12 of HoME and there are also a few odds and endsof Vocabulary of JRRT being published by the Vinyar Tengwar journal . so yes there is much being done,has been done and could be done! As daunting as something like a dict. might seem if you kept a set of index cards w/ you when you read and just noted words as they came up and then look up their meanings at the end, you would have a fair sized dicyt. in a year or so eh? Lindil is often found on posting on the Silmarillion Project at the Barrowowns and working on his own board Osanwe-Kenta[/i]- 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.' </p> __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

03-17-2001, 10:43 AM	#20
Hannah 3 Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 64	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Animated Skeleton Posts: 26</TD><TD><img src=http--images.neopets.com-images-newfirefaerie.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: it has been done My intension when I began mine was to learn it, not just have a list, which is one of the reasons it's so small - I actually know every word on it and could say it on the spot. <img src=smile.gif ALT=""> Of course, some people would make the dictionary first, then learn it, but I don't work that way... ~*Hannah*~ If one puts an idea forward to a true englishman - always a rash thing to do - he never dreams of considering whether the idea is right or wrong. The only thing he considers of any importance is whether one believes in it oneself. ~ Oscar Wilde</p>

03-17-2001, 03:26 PM	#21
Orald Shadow of Malice Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: right behind you Posts: 843	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shadow of Malice Posts: 697</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: it has been done I think it is mentioned in another thread, but Ardalambion is a great source for any language dealing with ME. Thus even as Eru spoke to us shall beauty not before conceived be brought into Eä, and evil be good to have been.</p>

03-17-2001, 07:20 PM	#22
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seeker of the Straight Path Posts: 496</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> lamba My suggestion for whatever it was worth was to both at the same time. lindil </p> __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

03-23-2001, 04:03 AM	#23
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seeker of the Straight Path Posts: 515</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: 11 !!!! reasons to read the HoME series {and UT} #11 - So you can follow the aragorn's anscestors thread!!!! <img src=smile.gif ALT=""> <img src=smile.gif ALT=""> !!! Lindil is oft found on posting on the Silmarillion Project at the Barrowdowns and working on a new Elven/Christian discussion board<a href="http://beta.ezboard.com/bosanwekenta" >Osanwe-Kenta</a> 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.' </p> __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

03-23-2001, 07:18 AM	#24
KayQy Wight Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Currently Spain Posts: 250	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight Posts: 181</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Another good excuse (I mean reason) to read HoME So you can write a linguistics paper on Qwenya and Sindarin and all the other languages Tolkien invented! </p> __________________ Do you really want to know / Or are you a little scared, Afraid that God is not exactly what you'd have Him be? --OC Supertones, "Wilderness" "Good sense about trivialities is better than nonsense about things that matter." -- Max Beerbohm

03-23-2001, 09:51 AM	#25
cian Guest Posts: n/a	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased Posts: 6</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: Another good excuse (I mean reason) to read HoME The Lay of Leithian! <img src=smile.gif ALT=""> </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000317>cian</A> at: 3/23/01 10:41:59 pm

03-23-2001, 10:57 PM	#26
Elenanna Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 98	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight Posts: 103</TD><TD><img src=http://www.chickpages.com/fanland/mischiefsdollys/images/unidoll44.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: Another good excuse (I mean reason) to read HoME the lay of leithan? Its got that?!! i must get my hands on it where can i get it, do you think a local library would have it? Visit me at <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/blorien16140>Lorien</a> friend of <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/bamongwareth>Amon Gwareth</a> and <a href=http://pub2.ezboard.com/brivendel>Rivendel</a> find my corpse at <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi>The Barrowdowns</a> </p>

03-24-2001, 07:07 AM	#27
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seeker of the Straight Path Posts: 516</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: Another good excuse (I mean reason) to read HoME The Lay of Leithian [ such as it is] can be found in the 'Lays of Beleriand' HoME #3 . It is easily available [in the US ] in paperback and still seen here in SF in trade paperback. Itiis the hardest of all HoME volumes to locate in HB. As to your library , my palantir is only showing burning hands at the moment. <img src=smile.gif ALT=""> Lindil is oft found on posting on the Silmarillion Project at the Barrowdowns and working on a new Elven/Christian discussion board<a href="http://beta.ezboard.com/bosanwekenta" >Osanwe-Kenta</a> 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.' </p> __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

10-15-2002, 12:44 PM	#28
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	5 more reasons. 1 -A wee bit longer Tale of aragorn and Arwen in XII [peoples] 2 - The origin[s] of the Narn i hin Hurin in XII 3- Notes on motives in the Silmarillion [X] vey fascinating writing on how Sauron [ in the 2nd age] was more powerful than Morgoth [at the end of the First Age]. 4 - Tal-Elmar - an interesting begining of a tale of the coasts of 'Gondor' in the 2nd age. Shows how men saw the Numenoreans. 5- Shibboleth of Feanor, Elvish history and linguistics in a potent mix. It seems as I re-read alot of folks posts above that many were reading thr Books of Lost Tales first. That may work well for some, but keep in mind they are exceedingly primitive in compositional style compared to [ if very fleshed out]the later writings. Many foks [ myself included] steer folks towards the later volumes first 10-12 which document the Silm in it's final phases [10 and 11] and the lotR appendices and a variety od fascinating late writings [12]. Unfinshed tales is reall a collection of materials that would have all eneded up in 10-12, had it not been put out first, before CRT decided to do a complete history of Middle-Earth. So fortunately [to my mind] he polished up some of UT for us. __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

10-16-2002, 07:43 AM	#30
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	Thanks for the correction ! I missed the catch in Feanor's reaction. And very strong words of praise and recommendation. Although I hesitate on the begining to end aspect [ at least for the first time] as alot of folks seem to get bagged down in LostTales. But Aiwendil is right, it is [ or I should say caontains] "the best literary experience of your life." __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

10-16-2002, 08:04 AM	#31
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	Like Lindil, I can't go along with reading HOME cover to cover. I really think that would be too much for most people. Can I expand this - Do you think you have to read the 12 books in the published order? I read vols 6-9 & 12 first as they deal with the composition of LotR, then read lost Tales & the Lays, then Lost Road in vol 5, Notion Club papers in vol 9, & then the last 150 pps of vol 10, with the Athrabeth, etc, & the rest, 4, 5, 10 & 11 in order. Has anyone else read them in the 'wrong' order or am I unique? __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."

10-16-2002, 08:38 AM	#32
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	There def is much to be said for the idea of following the thread of the Legendarium from begining to end, although i have not done it. I give a recommendation for the order of exploring HoME [ which I have seen other HoMErs corraborate] in the opening post [ I think] as well as new synopsis of HoME. __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

10-16-2002, 06:55 PM	#33
Aiwendil Late Istar Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,224	Personally, I think it is definitely best to read the series in order the first time through. One of the chief attractions, I think, is to see how the Legendarium evolved over time. You definitely miss something in this regard if you start in the middle. I realize of course that many people don't want to do this, which is fine; nonetheless, I think they're missing something. Then again, I'm one of those people that really enjoys the extensive commentary and copious notes; in fact, I rather wish Christopher Tolkien had provided more extensive commentary in some places. So I suppose I'm somewhat atypical.

10-18-2002, 12:25 PM	#34
GildorInglorion Animated Skeleton Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 48	I can't summon the strenght to read HOME, it's just to hard to find interesting information between all comments. UT is better, at least some chapters. The problem is, I don't know what chapters in HOME that contain much new interesting information. The first post gave me some good hints, can anyone be more specific? MuHaha, I have a bookstore nearby with all twelve HOME books. Money is the only problem... __________________ And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade

10-18-2002, 12:53 PM	#35
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	I will try and go back and flesh out the outline a bit [to night I hope], or you could be wise and take Aiwendil's word for it that HoME in general is the ultimate JRRT read. One thing you can def do is skip the footnotes, intro's and commentary till you really care about a given section! If you want the full view of the Legendarium from beging to end then read them chronologically. If you want what many consider the [majority at least]of the gold nuggets then much more material as good as UT lies within the last 3 volumes. [ October 18, 2002: Message edited by: lindil ] [ October 18, 2002: Message edited by: lindil ] __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

10-20-2002, 05:41 PM	#36
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	Well it turns out I shall not be able to elaborate on the HoME contents after all, so may I recommend simply skip the commentary unless you read something you wish to have commentary upon? Perhaps someone else can post something on the lines of what GildorInglorion wishes. Temporal constraints require that I keep all of my internet energies and time confined to the Silm project for the forseeable future. __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.