Are You Writing Serious Fantasy?

[Starbreeze]

I always write it down using pen (actually mainly pencil coz its faster and you don't need to keep stopping to refill the ink), This is for the simple reason that if I spent all the time I spend writing and redrafting infront of a computer I would have square eyes.
Also I find that writing it down is faster - my brain works faster than I can type which means that if I type for the first few drafts I end up missing out lots of good brainwaves.

[Naaramare]

I prefer to type my stories. I can type almost as fast as I think; I can't write that fast. Then again, I type extraordinarily fast.

[Ruthwen]

Typing is the best way for me, because I type very quickly. But I'll write by hand when I can't get at a computer.

Tell me... does anyone else just enjoy inventing worlds, for no particular reason other than to have them?

I LOVE creating worlds and trying to make them seem complete. In fact, I have far too many, and I'm trying to stick to the ones I have. I like religions especially.

As for writers' block (the eternal curse), I have a good way of beating it. Kind of. It only works if you have an idea where you want to go, but don't know how to get there. This magical cure is:

Coffee. Just smell coffee granules. For some reason it really inspires me. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[NazgulNumberTen]

my best stuff starts on paper, then goes to the computer, where i play around with different wordings and chage some words.
and i LOVE inventing words. i am creating several languages, and the first thing that is to be done is to decide what sounds to put in it. but for names, i give sounds meanings and string some english words together and translate.
plus some i just make up off the top of my head.

[Thinhyandoiel]

Back in the day when I didn't have a computer, I used to write everything longhand. You should see the stack of incomplete stories underneath my bed! Yikes! But, once I got one of these, I find writing difficult if not impossible unless it's done on a word processor or html editor. Could be that I like the way the words look on the screen, all professional like, as if it's already published or something. Inspiration comes more readily to me when my fingers can type it out at 70-80 WPM.

Concerning writer's block and temperature: I find that is totally true! We had a drought for the first half of the summer, and the heat was practically unbearable. Writing was pretty much out of the question, unless I wanted to faint on my keyboard... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] But lately we've had a lot of rain, so now, when not taking walks in it [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] I'm thinking anew! yay!

And yes lmp! A thunderstorm would be the perfect way to fuel our first convention. Think of all the inspiration that could be discovered that day! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Lila Bramble]

So many repiles...

I usually dream up my story, write down an outline on paper, then type it up.

Oh, and Saxony, e-mail me about teh chapters of my hobbit-fanfiction!

[Naaramare]

I like inventing swearwords. ::blushes:: No, really . . .swears, curses and other exclamations. Otherwise . . .not so much. I tend to get mixed up if I try to make up too many words. Meh.

[Anna Licumo]

Hmmm. Good question. I used to write everything, but once I learned to type without staring at the keys and searching for every flipping letter, I find I mostly type stuff. It makes it SO much easier to edit. And Lord knows that's a good thing for me. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] And yet, I still write with pen and parchment a lot. For one thing, computers crumble and crash under my touch, and also sometimes when I get stuck, watching ink flow into words like water flowing and morphing into trees, it helps me get my creativity back. (That was one heckuva run on sentance!)
On languages: Whew. Do not get me started. I LOVE making them up, dissasembeling words and making them stem from one another, deciding which letter combinations sound "soft" or "evil". Hey, I like learning REAL languages too! (Although I'm stuck with Spanish in school. Why they don't teach Sinadarian, I'll never know... [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] )

[Starbreeze]

Tell me... does anyone else just enjoy inventing worlds, for no particular reason other than to have them?

I'm pretty sure some people have misread you there coz people have started taking about languages, and I'm sure that says worlds. Anyway, yes, I love creating worlds for the sake of it. It is wonderful to have that much power and to create things exactly how you want it so you can get rid of things you dislike about this world and put in the things that would make it more perfect.
I like making religions too, though I am a little afraid of creating gods and goddesses as I tend to start beleiving what I right too much.

This magical cure is:

Coffee. Just smell coffee granules.

Or a nice hot bath works well.

sometimes when I get stuck, watching ink flow into words like water flowing and morphing into trees, it helps me get my creativity back.

Thats what I love about pen and paper. When you get stuck and your staring and a computer screen it is very dispiriting, but when you have a pen in your hand everything starts falling into place.

[littlemanpoet]

I used to write everything first, then switched to typing everything. I can do a mistake-filled 100 wpm and clean 70. So my typing can pretty much almost keep up with my thinking. I don't like to use disks to transfer my story to my work computer on break, so at work I only do revisions. I print my chapter and work off hard copy at work.

I like creating names based on languages that really exist. That's the extent of my philological adventures.

[Niphredil Baggins]

I just invented a new word, tell me if you've heard it before: seagraphy, which means undersea geography.

[Melephelwen]

I'm a newbie to this thread, so I'll just answer the questions on the first page, then I can go on with page 2 and 3 etc. Hope it's okay! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Are any of you writing serious fantasy?
Yes, I am.

If so, how have you dealt with the temptation to be imitative of Tolkien?
I've never been. I've been inspired by dreams and lines popping into my head from nowhere, but I've always tried not to imitate anyone. No evil rings for me, thank you [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

How long have you been working on your story, and why?
I'm not just working on one story, but several. Some are going to be linked later, as in Silmarillion, but all together I'm working on two main Fantasy and a lot of 'real world' stories.
I've always been writing, but I started seriously two years ago. The story was deleted at a 'computer accident' but I started some other BIG things instead... I've been working on my dream-story for a year, and the other fantasy a half.

What pitfalls have you faced and how have you overcome them - or not?
I've had a writing block, but I solved it by starting on a new story, so it'd never been seriously. If I run out of plot I either jump to later in the story and return when I feel like, or I start a description of something/someone. I usually forget to descripe my characters because I want to do it slowly and then I get so many ideas, that before I know I'm through three chapters.
And another problem: I can't make the chapters. I don't know how much my handwriting is on a computerpage and I don't want to make the chapters to short or long.

And an explanation to the 'dream-story':
My one Fantasy was inspired by a dream. It's really freaky, started with a banana as a spaceship, but then it slowly makes sence. It's about a people travelling through (time? space? I don't know) and they land on a planet. They started their travel because of a prophecy and the whole story follows that prophecy (yet we don't know how.) There's one child, and he/she gets split up with three different personalities and the people get split as well. I will have to write three stories following each other but still different... and I have no idea what to name it! So for now it's just 'dream-story'.

I can't continue for now, my parents just... no swearing on this site, so I won't let you know what they did. [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img] I can't concentrate on Tolkien for the next hours. [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img] (And the second I leave the computer I probably won't be allowed to get near it for two days [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img] )
Back to continue. Luckily I was only banned for a few hours...

The other story I'm writing is for now just a lot of bits lying all around. I'm planning to make it something alike Silmarillion. It aactually started out with a small quote on a school-book, and now I'm filling my second briefcase... It's not very clear, but it's something about Snakes. Not those long creepy creatures, but humen 'Snakes'. It's really hard to explain, but they have schools, nad they're the protectors of the world. But there's some nomads that are great enemies to the Snakes, and they are therefor treated by the Snakes in the same way that whites treat the Aboriginals(sp?) in Australia. Then they will be saved by a girl, who in a strange way is related to both groups. Haven't figured out how yet...

How do you keep track of names etc. and phrases you like, that pop into your head?
I write them down and use them when I think they're proper in the storyline. And I actually get my names from... well... this sounds really weird... like this for example:

A N N E
f _o i _n
g r _g g
h w e _l
a a _r a
n y _i n
i __a d
s
t
a
n

If I could get it to work... In this case, I get Foin, Hwel, Aara and Nyin. (They're the only pronouncable...) I always start with a name and write countries vertical. I hope at least somebody understand what I mean... My language in this post is really awkward!

What inspires you? Is it everyday things, or something you read, or dreams? Or a mixture?
Lines popping into my head, names, dreams, fantasies... just about anything.

How do you feel about other people reading your work?
I wouldn't on earth let my family read anything I write except essays. They have no sence of being nice. I can draw a person, ask what I can do better technically, and then my mother asks "Is that an Elf?"! If I knew somebody who would understand why I write, then maybe I would let them read it. Another 'future author BD'er' for example [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

How long do you write for before you feel that it is finished and you can't do anymore without spoiling it?
'Til I reach the ending. I can't tell, I just know when it's done. When I use my writing as essays I mostly get 13 or 11 (Danish grades, 13 best etc.) so I think I can do it okay [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Do you illustrate your work or leave it to the reader's imagination? And do you want to design your own front cover or have someone else do it?
It depends. Sometimes I illustrate, and other times I don't. And I don't know about the front cover. I'll see if I can do it myself, and if not, then I know somebody who I would want to illustrate.

Pwew! I hope all of this made sence... Now I'll move along to page two... This has definately been my longest post ever... [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

[ August 04, 2002: Message edited by: Melephelwen ]

[Eol]

Several years ago before I had my first computer, I use to keep notebooks with writing: short stories and poems. I then built my first computer and it was a godsent as it made it possible to type my work in half the time it took to write( and it was legabile!). Now I have a laptop and it is the most sublime item I have ever purchased. Not only can I write with this baby, I can also type notes for further literary productions!

Dispite my coming up in the world of technology, I still prefer to take notes by hand on paper. Hard copies can never fully be replaced by text files as your computer can lose those files forever in the endless abyss of circits. But it cannot lose a piece of paper that you wrote on(only I can! [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] ).

It is great to see so many people who enjoy writing and thinking. It is too few actually develop those ablities seriously and make something of it, even if it is for a hobby.

[ August 03, 2002: Message edited by: Eol ]

[Melephelwen]

Now I reached page 4 ... catching up on you guys! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

Are you writing fantasy seriously?
I'm not sure what others would say to that statement, but I think I do. When I'm not in school, on BD, doing homework, at work, taking care of my 'social life', reading Tolkien, I write. Okay, that doesn't sound as I'm a very active writer, but I have a bad habit with skipping the homework so I can make time. I also stay awake 'til 11pm writing, allthough my parents keep saying 10pm... I'm getting a bit unpopular at home [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

What kind of writing do you do?
Everything and anything. The Snake-story I mentioned I am so far writing from two different points of view. Actually it could be compared to Tolkien writing his story from Morgoth and Lúthien's points of view. It's a bad example, I know,but I couldn't think of anything better.

What way of developing characters works best for you? Action? Forced Cooperation? Psychological / Conversational interaction?
Not action... Sometimes conversation, sometimes the narrating voice is telling about them. I did a really stupid thing a while ago... with no explanation(sp?) at all, a blond girl suddenly had dark-brown hair... oops... [img]smilies/redface.gif[/img] Now I have a system, I put a coloured clips in my papers everytime I descripe a person/thing, so that next time he/she/it is mentioned, I look what I've written earlier.

Do any of you have characters like that -- that being, characters that get up off the page and exercise Free Will of their own? And do you beat them back down into submission or just stand back & roll with it?

Not that I have noticed... thinking about it, they do it all the time... I just let them, it's probably better. Though I might cut it out again in the editing.

I sometimes have trouble describing things properly. I want to describe things so I'm sure the reader will "see" the place, person etc., but then, I'm a bit afraid of being too describing in my writing, something I think Tolkien overdid a few times. He could use half a page to describe a tree. OK, not exactly true, but you know what I mean, right? If you overdo it, it tends to get boring, and then some ppl will skip through the text and perhaps miss something of importance. I think it can be difficult to find the line. How do you know when it's enough or too much? I mean, I've SEEN the places I write about (in dreams) and I want my reader to see them as well, not to skip pages because my describtions are too thouroughly.

That's true. Another example, apart from Tolkien, is Jean Auel, who wrote 'Earth's Children' ('Clan of the Cave Bear' etc.) In the fourth book, the descriptions of just about everything, 50% not really necessary for the storyin any way, is getting way out of hand. I've heard somebody say, that he/she could skip chapt. 4, 5 and 6 without missing anytyhing of the plot! I haven't tried myself though... It's sad, 'cause it's a really great story, but the descritions ruin it. Tolkien is luckily not getting that far! Because of that, I tend to skip all descriptions when I write, except of the characters. If I write of a house, it's just 'the size of (something)' and I leave the rest to imagination. I might change that later. Actually I think I will. But I'll try to keep it at a level I would want to read myself. I'm not really into reading descriptions... [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Btw, I'm happy you bothered reaading this!

[Nar]

Hey, Melephelwyn, you're reading the thread? Wow, thanks. I agree with you about descriptions getting dangerously long and stopping the story cold-- but it's such a temptation when you see it so clearly-- the only solution is to write it out of your system and cut afterwards. Another problem is beginnings-- I just came back from a writer workshop, and we kept telling the writers their stories really began 2 or 3 pages in, once they'd written their way into the situation and the plot got going. It's amazing how much background you can dispense with if you try! Jump into the middle, that's what we kept telling people. Endings, too ... there was one author there (published) who said he'd written an extra hundred pages on his novel before someone told him it was done, right there, so many pages ago. However, he said he HAD to write those extra hundred pages for the ending to be right-- he had to be expecting to write more at that point or he'd have messed the ending up. Whoa. I'm only on page 30.

As far as writing modes, I use all kinds, longhand, computer, including longhand-left-handed-backwards (I'm right handed). That was originally an experiment in my journal: I spent a summer travelling around and writing about all those strange sights right handed forwards from the front of my journal and left handed backwards from the back to see if I saw things differently when writing from different hands-- you know, I did. I saw shapes more clearly with the pen in my left hand but I couldn't draw them, my left hand's too shaky. The biggest difference was that left handed backwards I couldn't read what I wrote, couldn't edit it, was writing into a very safe quiet no-critic, no-edit space. I still use it when I'm blocked and want to do wild and deep thinking. Then I can't read it! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] I have to go find a hand mirror to read out where the back of my mind thinks my story should go!

[Nar]

Hey, LMP, so happy to hear you eluded those thugs, Wrongway and Deadend! Your latest version sounds right to me, like it grew out of that forest from a nice twisty tree root-- and I forsee all sorts of complications!

The first task with writer's block is to figure out which type it is. If the story's still live and basically in the right place, forcing it or using stream-of-consciousness -- I like to type in nonsense curses when I'm not working out my left hand-- that will work. If you've left it too long and the story's gone flat, you've got to start it all over again in your mind. Reread it, sleep on it, then take a long walk or do some other gentle mindless activity, pulling it around in your mind where you left off. You may be working on the wrong story, one you don't feel anymore at that point in your life, so switch or start a new one. You've got to write from a strong feeling you're having now, or it won't flow. You may have a systematic glitch, like editing too early -- editing stops the creation process, so make yourself wait at least 4-10 pages before you review your work, don't, don't start editing at two pages or less! There are various tricks to keep yourself from looking, if you can't look you can't edit -- turn off your monitor is a popular one. I like using symbol font. You may be anxious about judgement/deadlines, /review/publishing -- I'm afraid the only cure for that is to gain higher wisdom-- Ah, I need a drink! Have a snifter on me: (--) brandy, mangojuice, your choice

[ElfEarz]

yes i am [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] and someday i hope to be published, that would be a dream come true! the temptation was very strong but i resisted! it just wouldn't be right to imitate him. but it's so hard considering that i look up to him so much! i wish he was alive today to see how much his epic has effected the world! i know it has effected me and my work greatly.

[Nimiriel]

I know it has been a while since you talked about this but I have been on vacation and would like to answer anyway.

About it being easier to write in the winter: I don't know if that's true, but personally I write much better after nightfall, when it's dark outside, and in the winter it gets dark earlier so...

About typing or using pen and paper: I always use pen and paper for poems and notes, but I always type my stories because it's so easy to edit on a computer.

I also like making up languages or should I say language, one complete language is for now all that I can handle. And Starbreeze, I know precisely what you meen, I also try to make my world(including gods and godesses and religions) one I would like to live in, because I can't help believing (and hoping) that it' actually the way it works in reallity too.

I think that's all for now.

[Morima]

Coffee! I'll remember that, Ruthwen! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

I always type my stories. The reason is simple: I'm such a hasty person, and since I write faster when typing than writing by hand, I feel ineffective if I don't type. I can't cope with that [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img].

Hmm... I shouldn't reply here at all, really, cause I write more sci-fi than fantasy. No, it's a mix, really. That's my world, anyways, but I have some ideas for LotR fanfics too, and I've kinda already written one, in comic-form. I've been doing that my whole life, that is, creating the world. So it's kinda complete, but I'm still developing it somewhat. I'll shut up now. But it's good to see that lots of people are writing too! This is one of the lengthiest threads on the board.

[littlemanpoet]

Elfearz: Welcome! What's your story like?

Morima: Ditto the above. Don't worry about sci-fi versus fantasy. Some people would quibble over a difference, but I agree with C.S. Lewis (at least about this) that science fiction is fantasy either in outer space of in the future, which are really two different kinds of unknown places of wonder, just as legitimate as a Middle Earth or fairyland.

Nar: Yes, suddenly the whole thing came into focus and I realized that I need to think in terms of Wendell and the Society VERSUS Owen and Aelde at every turn, something I got OUT of the habit of doing when advised to separate the stories (which was a mistake, even though the advice was well-meant and sympathetic).

[Davin]

I have been trying to write seriously for only a few months now, and I find that I always start thinking about Hobbits and everything that Tolkien has created in his books. SO, I have decided just to try to write about events (that I have created) in his world. I am trying to write during the Fourth Age, so as not to interrupt anything that Tolkien has created. But I have to constantly check to make sure that what I am writing is believable in comparison to what he has written in his books. I find that very hindering, and it seems as if it would be much easier for me to just create my own world, and history, and language, and creatures to play with with my own imagination, instead of building off of what Tolkien has already created. But I am writing so that when the time comes that I want to make my works independant from Tolkiens, I will be ready to do so easily. I am using Tolkien as a kind of 'crutch' to get me started.

what an strange topic for discussion, not really, I would be a strange topic of discussion... -ANYWHO- Yes I must say my writing is like Tolkien's but not as well writen [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] (ahem) ty for asking,

what an strange topic for discussion, not really, I would be a strange topic of discussion... -ANYWHO- Yes I must say my writing is like Tolkien's but not as well writen [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] (ahem) ty for asking,

[Saxony Tarn]

welcome back to all the returning folks & welcome to all the new faces --

|_|) |_|) |_|) |_|) |_|) <-- here is the next round of AYWSF pints

(and Lila, didn't i e-mail you already? Hoom hoom, must have slipped my mind -- been rather busy lately! my apologies! will get to it right away!)

BTW i've got just a nitpicky question to raise:

We discuss "the temptation to be imitative of Tolkien" -- IN WHAT SENSE?! Writing style? Plot conventions? Using Elves, Dwarves, Orcs and ancient kingdoms? (i mean, Gondor hasn't got a thing on that original Middle Kingdom CHINA, Heck, after 3000 years, Gondor STILL doesn't even have black-powder. Hmm... Boromir with a flint-lock, now that's dangerous. Lurtz wouldn't have stood a chance...) Using Poetry? Creating proprietary languages? (Heck, Star Trek did that for the Klingons, and who's dinged Gene Roddenberry for aping Tolkien?)

Just a curious musing brought on by deprivation of mead... :: raising glass ::

|_|) any takers?

s.t.

[NazgulNumberTen]

|_|) <-pours self a pint
ok. i the early days of my fantasy writing, it was so much like lotr i wanted to cry. Tolkien created such a vast world, and such an epic tale, that it is next to impossible to find any fantasy story that dose not have things in common with Lotr. i have noticed these thinngs, and have complied them into a list of "uniting factors"
they include
-some sort of ancient evil, or an awakening of the sort
-some big bad dark lord
-a fellowship that sets out to destroy it
-a dark land, full of shadow and evil
-a gandalf like character, some wizard type who is wise and guides the group
some other stuff too
currently, i am revising and changing my work to give it a feeling all its own. and with all tolkien has done, it's very very hard.

[Davin]

I have the same problems, and they're very difficult to overcome. If i get writers-block, I just read over Fan Fiction, or from one of Tolkiens Books and get inspiration from my thoughts when I read.

[dragongirlG]

ST, I would definitely say characters and descriptions...it's very tempting to go and describe your evil place like Mordor, all barren and such, if your plot goes that way. As for characters, the same. A Gandalf-like character (the Wise Old Man) pops up almost everywhere in serious fantasy (I'm not talking about urban fantasy.) I think NN10 pretty much covered it all.

[Eol]

I use to enjoy tolkien knock-off fantasies(Dragonlance, TSR...). Then I grew up. The influence(having a group for questing, having a gandolf like character, etc.) was there for a while until I began doing research of history. It was then everything was blown away and I began creating my own stuff being inspired by history and not by anachronistic fantasy.

Though since since you realize this the influence, you can do something to change: do your research in the era you like. That is how Interregnum came to pass.

[Lila Bramble]

Ah, worlds...

I've created so many worlds...Celestia, the water and land in-habited war land, Fèlice, the land thought full of peace and prosperity while a shadow and a warrior emeger from the Mandarin Forest, and Maenora, the vast world ruled by a cruel king named Hae, spreading the religion of the Devil, outlawing and kidnapping all Paladins and white magic, creating much imprisinmont, brutality, and captives. (These are my most important worlds)

I find that too much detail can be boring, too little can leave you clueless, and it is important to just get in the right amount. I know Tolkien is the best fantasy writer in many opinions, but I find one element in his books (the tremendous detail) kind of bored teh readers, though many don't admit it.

I don't make five pages of detail, unlike Tolkien, for I find every detail can get boring, and most people skip through those long pages. I try to get detail in only when it is needed, mostly appearences of characters, weapons, and writings. Thedescriptions of places are usually in speech, in thought, and sometimes I will set aside one paragrahp for the description of the room, building, or town.

[Saxony Tarn]

A worse "Boring the Reader" sin -- over-pushing an agenda in an otherwise good story (Ayn Rand may well be paying the highest penance for this -- the books of hers that i've got aren't a bad epic read if you're forewarned enough to know when to skip the occasional ten-page speech. "i mean, okay, your characters are intended to illustrate your philosophy, but i thought i bought a novel, not a textbook..." and i certainly am not getting course credit for this, so... B ) )

So then the question becomes, how much detail is too much? Is a page to describe a tree too much if the tree is a central part of the scene -- for example, the Tree that forms the "castle" for Galadriel? A specimen like that may well merit such lengthy detail, so we can see it well enough for the artists among us to draw it.

The average oak in the surrounding forest, on the other hand -- probably not.

s.t. (thinking there should really be more trees in the parking lot outside...)

[Thinhyandoiel]

I think the "imitations of Tolkien" vary from the languages we create to the history of our worlds. Specifics will sound familiar, if not the same, if you compare them sometimes. But I'm finding that quite a few of the people I know have said that everything after Tolkien has been a poor imitation of his work, and I find that quite wrong. Because now, some writer's that I know (none from FWW, just so you know) are limiting themselves in their writing, afraid of doing this same thing, this "imitation" of a great work. And in doing so I find that they've succeeded in not imitating Tolkien, yes, but they're limiting themselves in the process. Yes, Tolkien's "Lord of the Rings" might have set a standard, but to say "Oh no, my world must not have elves, that would be imitating Sir Tolkien" is just so much dwarf's bread I want to smack them.
In my opinion, if you are to use elements that have used before, ie. elves, don't imitate the specifics. However, I think some things are a given: Immortality, elvish, etc. Am I making sense? Or am I just being confusing in all my inane babble? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
On description, like Saxony Tarn said, knowing when to go into great description is crucial. Describe the elven castle, not the house on your left. You have to let the reader take notice of what your character's are noticing. In my story, I once had my characters emerging from a forest and "there was great joy and they felt their hearts lifted" is what I had at one point. lmp pointed out that emerging from a forest just didn't merit that sort of joy, best to save that for a nice big event later on. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Eol]

It is fine that you use elements such as dwarves or elves, however you must be truthful to yourself. What are you trying to achieve? Do you want the stereptype? Or do you want to make it unique to your own story? If you desire unique, changing names in refernce to races helps. Tolkien made this mistake. He wanted his stuff to be different, such as his elves and dwarves. Unforutnatly, he did not see that using elf or dwarf would conjure an image that cannot be shaken whether you state that your elves had blue hair or a lifespand of that of his non-elven races. This will stop once you can call them something else other then elf or dwarf.

As to description, perhaps you should look at it as a tool, a brush. What do you want the reader to understand, to see or feel? Description is unlimited if you want to set a mood or setting up for the next scene where there will be action and detail would slow the pace of the writing. Use it wisely and freely.

[Maikadilwen]

Do you want the stereptype?

But what is the streotype?
Eol mentions elves. Tolkien did not "invent" elves. Being from Denmark, I knew about elves before I ever heard the name Tolkien. They've existed in the Scandinavian (and German I believe) folklore for centuries, but they're nothing like Tolkien's elves. They're creatures of the night, mischievous and evil, but still possess great beauty. Or so it is said, because almost all who encounter them is found dead by sunrise. If they're found at all, that is... As you see, "original" elves are fearsome creatures, not to be played with.

Imo you're not imitating Tolkien by using creatures that already "exists" and alter their abilities or personality. If that's the case, the great man himself imitated a lot of European folklore writers...

[ August 09, 2002: Message edited by: Maikadilwen ]

yes, i'm trying to write a story. Sometimes it is difficult to be different from other stories like Lord of the rings. In my story i have a queeste and i use some of the creatures from LOTR like orcs and trolls but they can be find in more stories, so i don't care. I also created some new creatures, good and evil. I also use rases like elfs, men and dwarfs, but i don't use hobbits, i think that is part of LOTR so i will not use it. But i made three new rases myself.
I don't think i will immitade Tolkien much, i mean: there are a lot of fantasy stories and everybody is somehow using something from other stories, like creatures or names or whatever.
Sometimes it is difficult, writing a story. problems i had were: time you need for writing, problems with my spelling because i write to fast. other problems i had: finding names for characters, and not using to much names. so it is still understandable for others.
The most biggest problem i have is with connecting two different parts of the story; I mostly write pieces of stories, they come up in my head and i write it down, after that i have to connect it with or fill it in the parts of the story i already have written.
most problems can be solved by take some time, don't care about that even if your story would that take more time than you wanted. Think about what and how you can change it, mostly you will find a solution by yourself. sometimes talk to a friend, that can be very helpfull.
I'm writing now for almost one and a half year and it's almost finished. I'm already trying to find a publisher.
I'm writing because i want to use my creativity and fantasy. I want other peoples to have fun and show them my fantasy so they can join it and think of a world as i created. A world other then ours with strange creatures and items, with magic and mysterious things. I also want to see my name in stores, i think it will look cool and funny.
I also do it al little bit because almost no one of my friends will think i will really do it.
There are a few who think i will succeed and i have a lot of support from them. and that keeps you also writing you know.
If my book is going to be published I absolutly will write a part two.

I hope this will provide some information and help to some of you.

Greeting to all of you writers and LOTR-fans.
PS: Sorry for all the misspellings if any, I'm from holland you know.
PPS: I also write my story in dutch so you will probably never see it.
[img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

By: Narin Stonearmour

Note to my first message:
I responded to the message from littlemanpoet who placed his/her message somewhere in april, so i mean the first hting i saw on this forum.

[img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]

[littlemanpoet]

Just by way of a quick reply in general because I don't have much time, a distinction is in order re Tolkien imitation:

On one hand there are the archetypes and formulae of myth and fantasy (which Tolkien used, of course) such as elves, dwarves, dragons, castles, mythic evil, quest, etc.

On the other hand there's the small human-like race of hobbits, the elvish language, the powerful magical artefact to be destroyed, etc.

See the difference?

Thus, Eol, I take exception to your characterization of all of it as childish (I may misunderstand you). The notion that myth and fantasy is Childish is one of the things Tolkien tried in his On Faerie Stories to excise from the mentality of people of his own era, and we hope, later times as well.

[Melephelwen]

Hehe ... finished page 6...
(This post is about my Snake-thing)

How do you handle Magic?
Well, I'm not that far yet. I have magic, but as my main character doesn't know anything about it, I can't tell. It will show up later in the story, but it is not going to be the HP like, nor so much like Gandalf. It will probably be more like mind-magic, uhm you can travel for a day, and with help of your or others' mind you are hundreds of miles away, that travel could have taken years. Described it as h*ck, I should work more on it...

How do you use your monsters - as foils for the hero/heroine? in unexpected ways?
Ach, monsters... well, they haven't shown up yet. (I'm not really far in my story, as some might have noticed) I have plans of some, and though I'm not into the description yet, I have a vague idea, that they might be human-controlled... I will know for sure when the dark mists of the future has passed...

I really have a problem with my history. As I said, it's supposed(sp?) to be like the Sil, but I'm really bad at telling legends, and I don't know where to start - anybody has any ideas? (May find them on page 9 or whatever, but it can take ages before I get that far... [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] )
But now my mum wants my preciousss computer, so I'll have to continue later... (not actually my computer, but we wantsss it, we wantsss it!) sorry, in a Gollum-mood today [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

[Eol]

But what is the streotype?
Eol mentions elves. Tolkien did not "invent" elves.

Maika: I did not intend to say that Tolkien invented "elves". I am aware of the mythical elves that you speak of. I suppose what I had meant to speak of and was not specified that Tolkien's creations became the stereotype( Tall, blonde and dark haired, fair eyes). People continued to view that as the norm which has become a cliche. That may be diffenent in Europe, I do not know. This should be evident in literature of non-Tolkien relation.

Also to sum my statements to childishness, I had no such intention. Unless you meant something else by your statement?


There had been people saying(not in Barrow-downs, I hope) that their stories were purely original when the plot was genaric and bland and their creatures were a cookie cutter form( Elves were all blonde, fair eyes and tall with attitude that they were superior and dwarves are harsh and gruff, and the halflings...).This is non-Tolkien, mind you.

That was mostly to sum up what I had to do because I had started out that way because of poorer influence( had not really gotten into Tolkien until the past two years). I just wanted to take my experiance of five years of intensive writing and make suggestions to help people assess their work. Believe or not, people are very bias about their work and a great deal of the time will not admit their writting is not as creative as first conceived.

I suppose in the end, nothing can be purely original. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[ August 09, 2002: Message edited by: Eol ]

[littlemanpoet]

Eol: I went back and read your other post over again. You were more specific than I had noticed the first time. My fault. Yes, Dragonlance is imho a bit adolescent, though good enough for all that.

Welcome new writers. As to how to handle mythic writing, I would first do a good amount of reading in it. The Silmarillion, for example; or try the Icelandic sagas, Norse sagas, and so forth. The Heimskringla and many other legends are available on-line. Here's another one: mythmakers.

After you've read a bit and gotten a feel for the rhythm and flow and cadence of it (those were redundancies, i think), then give it a whirl.

[Lila Bramble]

Tolkien imitation may nto be in the story, but if you use the typical description of the elfs (which has been adapted after Tolkien's books) this is what you will be most likely accused of.

Original elfs were small tailed creatures of Scandinavia, feirce to intruders yet gentle among their own kind. These elfs are rarely used anymore.

And it is correct for the most part, whatever the description, elfs will always be thought of the same. I ahve used the word 'elfs' in one of my stories as a greater race of an already existing race, but I might take away that title.

Also, I find dwarfs can be potrayed differently. Like, Snow White had a different approach. And same with Halflings. They could be faerie-size who live in the grass if you wanted them to. Hobbits would be the real stereo-type.

Oh, and for all new members who have joined the thread, me and Saxony welcome you with the offical mug!

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