Mythological references in Tolkien's works

[Iaurhirwen]

I'm writing a paper on the different references to the mythologies and legends from Norse, Celtic, or any others.

I have a bunch of ideas but I was hoping if anybody had any ideas they could give me to make sure I didn't miss anything or to give me more ideas to create the required 10 pages.

Hannon le

Well I think Norse mythology had a story in it of a ring of power... I'd have to look that up in my Philosophy of LOTR book... You can get that book in Barnes and Noble. REally interesting

[Finwe]

I would really recommend David Colbert's Magical Worlds of The Lord of the Rings and Michael N. Stanton's Hobbits, Elves, and Wizards. You will find droves of information in there.

[Arathiriel]

And I know for a fact that Tolkien's basic description of Gandalf the Grey matches that of the description of the god Odin in Norse mythology!

[Elennar Starfire]

One thing I noticed when reading some Celtic myths was that Tir na nOg (sp? and what's with that capital O in the middle?) lies across the sea to the west, like Valinor. I haven't noticed anything else yet, but I just got into reading Celtic myths, so I don't know much about that.

I'll have to check out that book myself... I love this stuff!

[Lhunardawen]

David Colbert's Magical Worlds of The Lord of the Rings

Indeed. I have read the book, and I have learned lots from it.

All I know is that Tolkien derived much from this Norse epic...I can't remember it...my mind is in agony...if I do, I'll post it right away.

That's a tough requirement, Iaurhirwen. Hope you can finish it. Enjoy being dead. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Finwe]

I believe that you're talking about the Finnish epic Kalevala. Tolkien got the names of the Dwarves in The Hobbit from the Kalevala, among other things.

[Guinevere]

You're mixing things up, Finwë!
The Dwarves' names are certainly from the "Dwergatal" in the Edda (old Norse/Icelandic) Even Gandalf's name is there as "Gandalfr" (meaning "Staff-Elf).

From the Finnish Kalevala Tolkien got the idea of the story of Túrin Turambar. (the story of Kullervo in the Kalavala)
And Quenia is influenced by the Finnish language.

Another source is "Beowulf" (on which he lectured as a professor of Anglosaxon) The description of Edoras and of the Rohirrim in general are influenced by this.

Here a quote to this topic from one of Tolkien's letters:

These tales are "new", they are not directly derived from other myths and legends, but they must inevitably contain a large measure of ancient wide-spread motives or elements. After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of "truth", and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear."

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 12:56 PM January 02, 2004: Message edited by: Guinevere ]

[Iaurhirwen]

Thanks for the help everybody.

Guinevere, thanks for the Beowulf reference. I was searching for something with and Old English background and completely forgot about Beowulf. I read it a few years ago and now that I think about it, I do recall similarities between the two. In fact, I now remember mentioning in class how much Beowulf reminded me of LOTR!

Right now I'm in the process of reviewing the Norse epics in the Eldar Edda and Nibelungeleid (sp?), but they are really long reading.

More ideas would be greatly appreciated. Once again, thanks for everybodies help and I'll let you know how I do.

[Sharkû]

The Túrinssaga is partly inspired by the tale of Kullerwoinen/Kullervo in the Kalevala, esp. their respective deaths. Tolkien also lists Oedipus and Sigurd the Volsung as influences for this story (cf. Letter 131).
The "éarendel"-line in the Old English _Crist_ by Cynewulf was in turn a major spark of inspiration for the whole Legendarium (cf. Letter 297).

[Finwe]

I stand corrected, Guinevere. *sheepish grin*


Tolkien used many Norse and Old English legends to make his cultures seem more "authentic" for a legendarium designed for England. I think he took a "bit" of every culture that somehow influenced England, and somehow put it into Middle-earth.

[Carorëiel]

Check out Lin Carter's Tolkien: A Look Behind the Lord of the Rings. It should point you in all sorts of interesting and useful directions.

[Linaeve]

Hmm . . . I seem to remember my friend reading a book on Norse mythology and being startled that the names of the dwarves in The Hobbit all came from Norse gods. At least, I'm relatively certain that it was from Norse gods . . . I hope that helps somewhat!

[Guinevere]

Not from Norse Gods, Linaeve! Tolkien found the Dwarves' names in the poem "Völuspa" (The Sybil's Vision) one section of which is called the "Dvergatal" (the Tally of the Dwarves). It is just a list of names (more than 60!).

[Athaniel]

Hi Iaurhirwen

How are you getting on with your essay? I hope I have some useful information on celtic mythology:

Tolkien's elves exhibit some characteristics of the Tuatha De Danann. Divine and human beings are appearing in the myths, who are described to have colonized Ireland one after the other. Last came the Milesians, the immediate anscestors of the Irish. The Tuatha De Danann, who had been there much earlier, before long retreated into hills of earth (Sid)to become a magical people. Medieval conceptions of fairies are largely based on the Tuatha. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Sharkû]

I have just recently rediscovered (I posted the link at least once before IIRC) that the Sacred Texts archive has devoted a whole section to Tolkien's influences from texts in their database: http://www.sacred-texts.com/ring/index.htm

[Lalaith]

Guinevere is quite right about Dvergatal. If this thesis is still being written, here's a link to a very good, if rather obscure, Old Norse poem, that you might find useful. http://meadhall.homestead.com/Angantyr.html
Don't be put off by Red Sonja illustration... the motif of the cursed sword is rather familiar, vis a vis Gurthang/Anglachel. Not to mention the name of the dwarf who forged it, and the woman disguising herself as a warrior - plus it all takes place in a barrow of the dead!

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 1:45 PM January 11, 2004: Message edited by: Lalaith ]

[Iaurhirwen]

Thanks for all your help everybody!

When I first received the assignment, I was very hesitant about completing the needed number of pages. Once I started though, I could have gone on and on for about 100 pages.

My instructor, who is also a Lord of the Rings Fan (though not as obsessed as I am), gave the paper an "A".

Once again, thanks everybody for all of your ideas and topic ideas. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Kransha]

Let's see....
Well, the obvious mythological comparison is to the nordic myth, eventually made into a Wagner opera, namely "The Rings of the Neibellungen" (I KNOW the spelling is wrong). That's a story about rings of power. Read the nordic tales of "Sigurd and Fafnir" or "The Eddas". Fafnir, of those myths, was one of the first dragons in literature to be given personality, which has led many to believe that he was the basis for Smaug or Glaurung. Also, read Beowulf to famialrize yourself with language and lore references.

[Failivrin]

Turin and Oedipus of Greek mythology who was sent away from his family and married his mother (mother, sister, same thing!) and later killed himself.

[Guinevere]

Well, the obvious mythological comparison is to the nordic myth, eventually made into a Wagner opera, namely "The Rings of the Nibelungen"

But Tolkien didn't like that comparison at all!

"both Rings are round, and there the resemblance ends."

he said.

Thank you (belatedly) for the great link, Sharku! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
I've never seen anything of the Kalevala before.