Does Aragorn have Foresight?

[Leyrana Silumiel]

Hi, all. A thought occured to me, and I searched it on the Downs, but nothing turned up. So I thought I'd bring it up.

It's known that Elrond, Arwen, Galadriel, etc. had foresight, but my question is: does Aragorn have foresight (even if it is limited)?

What makes me ask this question is a statement he makes to Gandalf before they go into the Mines (emphasis mine):

"You followed my lead almost to disaster in the snow, and have said no word of blame. I will follow your lead now--if this last warning does not move you. It is not of the Ring, or of us others that I am thinking now, but of you, Gandalf. And I say to you: if you pass the doors of Moria, beware!"

And then, when Gandalf returns, he makes a comment about how didn't he warn Gandalf to not go into Moria? (I can't give an exact quote because I can't seem to find it...but I know it's in the chapter called "The White Rider" [The Two Towers])

There are also several other moments where he seems to have foresight, but I don't have the time to look them up at the moment.

If Aragorn DOES have a limited amount of foresight, is it because he is descended from Numenorian kings? (And possibly because he has Elven blood?)

What are your thoughts on this?

[Nirvana II]

no he doesnt.......mortals cant have foresight.

[Firefoot]

Ah, but Aragorn isn't all mortal.

Granted it is such a tiny part it wouldn't matter. I disagree, Nirvana, that mortals can't have foresight. I would say that Aragorn did have some foresight. Perhaps not to the extent of that of the Elves, but foresight none the less.

Also, I believe that the quote you are talking about is thus:

"Farewell, Gandalf!" he cried. "Did I not say to you: if you pass the doors of Moria, beware? Alas that I spoke true! What hope have we without you?"

First paragraph in FotR Book 2, Chapter 6, Lothlorien. That is perhaps why you could not find it.

[Phervasaion]

I think the source you are referring to is really talking about his human instinct rather than forsight. But, like you said, he has a very small amount of Elven blood in him. This may give him a very, very slight foresight abbility.

[lathspell]

Why does it have to do with elfblood? Or even with Elves?

There are different quotes about foresight in the works of Tolkien and the most obvious I have quoted below.

'But you are my heir: all that I had and might have had I leave to you. And also you have Rosie, and Elanor; and Frodo-lad will come, and Rosie-lass, and Merry, and Goldilocks, and Pippin; and perhaps more that I cannot see.'

This is said by Frodo to Sam at the end of LotR when they ride to the Grey Havens. Frodo doesn't have any Elfblood running through his vains, neither is he Elvish. Yet all that he says comes to pass, and after this little part he says a lot more that also comes to pass.

Foresight is an ability that we don't know about, because we don't possess such a thing. It seems that only the great have got this talent in adequate amounts to 'see' things. Elrond, Gandalf, Saruman and Galadriel are great ones and I believe they all knew partly what the future held, not to mention Cirdan or even Mandos. The Wise are great and some people beside are great too. Aragorn is one of them, just as is Cirdan and Glorfindel. Frodo belongs to them too according to Saruman.

'You have grown, Halfling,' he said. 'Yes, you have grown very much indeed. You are wise,...

Saruman to Frodo after they battled his forces in the Shire.

greetings,
lathspell

P.S.: Even Glaurung the dragon was foresighted and you can hardly he was Elvish or had the slightest trace of elfblood.

[Guinevere]

In Aragorn's familiy, some people do have the gift of foresight !
As it is stated in the story of Aragorn & Arwen in the Appendix:
Gilraën's father was opposed to the marriage of his daughter to Arathorn and said about him:.

]"...and yet my heart forebodes that he will be short-lived." But Ivorwen, his wife , who was also foresighted, answered: " The more need of haste! The days are darkening before the storm, and great things are to come. If these two wed now, hope may be born for our people; but if they delay, it will not come while this age lasts."

So Aragorn has inherited this gift from both his parents!

When he was just twenty, he had such a "hunch" when talking with Elrond about Arwen and her doom:

Then suddenly the foresight of his kindred came to him, and he said: "But lo! Master Elrond, the years of your abiding run short at last, and the choice must soon be laid on your children to part either with you or with Middle-earth."

But of course he can't see into the future at will, it is just some times that such forebodings come to him.
When Arwen tolds him that he would be "among the great whose valour will destroy the shadow." he answered

"Alas! I cannot foresee it and how it may come to pass is hidden from me. Yet with your hope I will hope."

[Nirvana II]

Aragorn's elvish-ness has been put out by the 4,000 years since Elros-tar Minyatur, anhiliating his foresight.



Nirvana II

[Finwe]

He definitely has some amount of foresight. Granted, it isn't as much as what Elrond or Galadriel have, but it is there. Aragorn was the descendant of the Numenoreans, and subsequently, of Luthien, one of the greatest of the Elves. Even though he has but a trace of that Elvish blood, it is enough to give him strength and foresight, like that of the Elves. Could any other man have been able to wrest control of the palantir from Sauron? Could any other man have been able to face down the King of the Dead? Aragorn was no ordinary man.

[Evisse the Blue]

There are more examples of foresight, even among less wise and mere mortals, which would appear to suggest that it is a gift from Eru rather than a personal ability. For instance, Theoden's 'heart' tells him that he will not see Aragorn again after he leaves for the Paths of the Dead, and this indeed proves true; but the reason for it is not revealed to him: Theoden assumes it is Aragorn who would die, when instead it is he that meets his end before he can see Aragorn again.
Another example is Hurin and Morwen talking about the future of their children, and each of them feels a strange foreboding at the plans that the other had made, but not at their own. It turns out that they were both right, but because their foresight was limited, they could do nothing about it.

[lore_master]

Mortal can indeed have foresight, i think it just pertains to those of Elvish or Numenorean blood though. Gilrean, aragorn mother had farsight, or so it said in the appendicies, and also like was mentioned Girleans father was also said to have possesed some form of foresight, and also Hurin and Morwen, i believe had some form of foresight as well.

[Angry Hill Troll]

Another example of Foresight among humans: Malbeth the Seer

Malbeth was right about the consequences of giving the kingship of Gondor to Eärnil rather than to Arvedui, and about Aragorn's taking the Paths of the Dead prior to reclaiming the kingship. Elrond, after all, thought the prophesy worthy enough to have Aragorn reminded of it 1000 years later.

[Nirvana II]

but remember : Malbeth the seer was of the line of Beren, and just got the full blast of foresight and Finwe.............it says somewhere in LOTR (i cant remember...)that only the right King of the West could control the palantiri i think at least

[Fingolfin II]

Yet another example of mortal foresight, or foreboding, whatever you want to call it, is Halbarad before he enters the Paths of the Dead. He says, "This is an evil door and my death lies beyond it. I will dare to pass it nonetheless" and he dies in the battle of the Pelennor Fields. Halbarad is of the Dunedain, but isn't as high as Aragorn, yet he too has some small degree of foresight like Aragorn.

[rutslegolas]

ya i too think aragorn has some kind of elvish foresight.
and aragorn is the king of men of the numenoreans.
i remember aragorn saying something too elrond and then tolkein says"and the foresight of his people came to him and ..."

[Evisse the Blue]

He says, "This is an evil door and my death lies beyond it."

I always took this to mean as a general thing, in the sense that everyone's death lies beyond it, his included, it being the Paths of the dead. But now that I think about it, you're right. I guess this is one of those things left open to interpretation.

So we have all these instances of foresight, some explainable, some less explainable. But do they serve a purpose? Most of these people who have an inkling of a foresight at one point, do not let it get in their way of doing the right thing, like Halbarad.

[Guinevere]

@ Rutslegolas: The full quotes are in my post above. Haven't you read the whole thread ?!

Nirvana II said:

"no he doesnt.......mortals cant have foresight."
"Aragorn's elvish-ness has been put out by the 4,000 years since Elros-tar Minyatur, anhiliating his foresight."

Although I agree that Aragorn isn't an ordinary man, I don't think that his "foresight" derives from the inheritance of Elvish blood.
As lathspell, Evisse, Angry hillTroll and loremaster said, Mortals can just as well have foresight!
Just think of the prophetic words of Huor and Húrin to Turgon in their last stand!! And they didn't have any Elvish blood.

Halbarad was another good example, FingolfinII.

And what Evisse said, seems to me very important too:

Most of these people who have an inkling of a foresight at one point, do not let it get in their way of doing the right thing, like Halbarad.

[Hot, crispy nice hobbit]

One thing to address here though.

We argue whether Aragorn had foresight. But why is it that no-one points out that Gandalf did not? Both Gandalf and Aragorn passed through Moria before.

"I too once passed the Dimrill Gate," said Aragorn quietly; "but though I also came out again, the memory is very evil. I do not wish to enter Moria a second time."

It is pretty well-known that Moria had become inhabited by Durin's Bane, though apparently what Durin's Bane is, no-one seemed to have known. Gandalf himself expressed some surprise at seeing the Balrog at the Bridge.

"A Balrog," muttered Gandalf. "Now I understand." He faltered and leaned heavily on his staff. "What an evil fortune! And I am already weary."

What had Gandalf expected about the Durin's Bane? Just some Dragon or Werewolf or Vampire bat? Obviously, Gandalf did not intend to perish in Moria, but did he foresee his resurrection later?

Saruman did not foresee Gandalf's flight from Isengard, Sauron did not foresee his defeat by a hobbit. Arguably when we are talking about Evil powers, we can safely say that they became rather stupid. But we are still talking about Maia here. One famous Maia that had "Foresight" is Melian. If prophetic powers runs in the blood of elves, then this is rather queer, isn't it?

I suggest that "Foresight" is a divine gift, not even from the Valar, but the Illuvator, who is omniscient. It did not rule out the possibility that blood and ancestry something to do with it, but that is certainly a very distant possibility.

[inglorion]

Hot, crispy nice hobbit:

I think you misunderstand one thing about Durin's Bane, which is that no one knew what the terror was the moria held. Everyone called it Durin's Bane and everyone knew that it held a power too great for the dwarves of old.
Ofcourse Gandalf knew this as well, and he is not pleased to enter khazad-dum again. At the door which bursts into splinters he says that he had met his equal and didn't know what it was, but at the bridge he knows and understands what happened in moria.

The fact that no one knew that Durin's Bane was in fact a Balrog is in fact underlined by a statement of Celeborn when the other 8 of the Fellowship meet him and Galadriel at Caras Galadon. He says:

'Alas! We long have feared that under Caradhras a terror slept. but had I known that the Dwarves had stirred up this evil in Moria again, I would have forbidden you to pass the northern borders, you and all that went with you.'

Concluding that Gandalf couldn't have known about the Balrog, but knew about Durin's Bane, it is very unlikely to say that he didn't have foresight. I think he had and he had many powers beside. Does he not save the quest at Amon Hen and call Shadowfax to Fangorn forest when he is in the south in Rohan. Also he shows foresight when the battle of Helm's Deep is about to begin. 'Meet me at dawn of the (I believe) 5th day'.

greetings,
lathspell

[Hot, crispy nice hobbit]

Concluding that Gandalf couldn't have known about the Balrog, but knew about Durin's Bane, it is very unlikely to say that he didn't have foresight.

I think you misunderstand me, inglorion. I do not suggest that Gandalf had no foresight, but it would be pretty much inexplicable if Gandalf should know that he is going towards his death, and still go into Moria.

Gandalf had much more powers besides. His shrewd guesses can sometimes be even considered prophesies. However, given the situation, Gandalf would not have died fighting in Moria unless he had foreseen his own ressurection. He know fully well of the dangers in Moria, he know that he is leading the Ring to an extremely dangerous place, and he know of Durin's Bane even though he did not know what it is. All these are things that he already know, and therefore do not count as Foresight. But knowing all these, he continues to lead them all into Moria! I can't believe that Gandalf did not foresee his return at a later date.

Of course, we are also talking about two different Gandalfs: The grey and the white. My argument is that Gandalf the White HAD foresight. But Gandalf the Grey did not, or had much less. Then again, the question is whether Aragorn's prophetic powers came from his Numenorean blood. My answer is could be, but chances are that it is a divine gift.

By the way, can all Maia be considered to have Foresight? They were all there when the Great Music began... so they might have some inkling of what's to come?

[symestreem]

We don't know that Gandalf didn't know he was going to die just because he kept going. There was no other safe path through the mountains; perhaps he thought it was better for him to die and the Ring to be safe. The evidence seems to indicate that he didn't know of his own death (is there any instance in ME of someone predicting their own death?) but I'm playing DA.

[Hot, crispy nice hobbit]

is there any instance in ME of someone predicting their own death?

Halbarad foretold his own death after passing through the Paths of the Dead.

'This is an evil door,' said Halbarad, 'and my death lies beyond it. I will dare to pass it nonetheless; but no horse will enter.'

And as to the Foresight of Gandalf the WHITE:

'I have forgotten much that I thought I knew, and learned again much that I had forgotten. I can see many things far off, but many things that are close at hand I cannot see. Tell me of yourselves!'

[lore_master]

with foresight, or the way i take it, you cant just call upom it to tell you whatever you want, but it just happens occasionaly, and it cant tell you how tat thing is going to happen

[Luthien_ Tinuviel]

I agree with many others who have said that foresight must be a gift from Ilúvatar, possibly somewhat inherited but not necessarily. Yet I am surprised that no one has brought up another instance which I feel definately proves Aragorn to be a possessor of foresight:

"....I say to you, Éomer, that in battle we may meet again, though all the hosts of Mordor should stand between."

Aragorn to Éomer, The Passing of the Grey Company

This is right before Aragorn sets out for the Paths of the Dead. The two do indeed meet again in battle, and one of my favorite passages follows:

"Thus we meet again, though all the hosts of Mordor lay between us," said Aragorn. "Did I not say so at the Hornburg?"

"So you spoke," said Éomer, "but hope oft deceives, and I knew not then that you were a man foresighted."

Aragorn makes a foresighted prediciton, or prophecy, if you will, and it is fulfilled. Is that not great proof of foresight? Another interesting thing to note is that Éomer does not seem astonished that Aragorn has foresight, as he no doubt would if such a thing never occured among men. Seeing as Éomer has only ever had dealings with the people of Rohan and a limited number of men from Gondor, one could safely assume that certain members of the Rohirrim also had some degree of foresight.

[Bombadil]

Another example of mortal foresight would be in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad when Huor says to Turgon:

Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hopes of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and from me a new star shall arise. Farewell!

This of course is talking of the grandson of Huor, Eärendil. From the daughter of Turgon, Idril, and the son of Huor, Tuor. This is one prediction that comes true, but then he even forsees the rise of Eärendil into the heavens on Vingilot.