Two Frodos - Page 3 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

piosenniel · 06-26-2002, 06:03 PM

Stone of Vision

I liked this thought of yours:

Quote:

I like the movie very much and admire PJ's work but what i reproach the movie is, indeed that lack of free minding and imagination. Pictures and images will necessary influenced the people who had seen them as if the characters were prisonners of thoses images. Elijah's eyes will haunt some of us for a long time...
But i also believe,that, if the movie leads to read the book, then one could still find "his/her own Frodo" not totally the same and not totally different . . .

I, too, think that first time readers of the book might be limited by the 'pictures' they have in their minds from the movies. The books are so much richer and more complex than the film. I can only hope that they will be enticed by their reading to savor the story many times. And in doing so, to find their own pictures.

[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

Bêthberry · 06-27-2002, 08:18 AM

I must apologize to everyone here for not getting back to the discussion. I have been exceedingly busy in RL with my young Brandybucks (two graduations, one from elementary school to middle school and the other from middle school to high school) one day after another, plus unexpected visits from family outside the country.

I would like to suggest to Child that she set up a new thread for us to discuss the presence and place of the feminine voice in LOTR. I would like to discuss the significance of the marriages but this is off-topic here. Nor do I have the sense that Frodo's journey west is a loss.(I hesitate to say that marriage is an expectation for everyone.) Since I am new at BD, I do not feel that I know everyone well enough to start threads yet myself.

Greetings to all for their interesting ideas here. It is often enlightening at BD simply to read posts even when I don't have anything to contribute to moving the discussion forward.

Respectfully,
Bethberry

Child of the 7th Age · 06-27-2002, 09:44 AM

Bethberry -- I'll be glad to start a new thread on the feminine in LotR as I've been thinking about some of this myself.

However, don't feel shy about throwing out questions on the board. Sometimes they pan out and sometimes they don't. It just depends who is on that week, and whether their interests or questions happen to coincide with yours. I'm never sure whether something is going to connect or not, but I just put it down and then wit and see what happens.

Estelyn Telcontar · 06-27-2002, 11:10 AM

Hi, Bethberry!

There are two threads on marriage in Middle-earth already existing and I would be more than happy to have new contributions posted there, as they have been "resting" for awhile.
One is [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]Marriage in Middle-earth I (happy),
the other is [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] Marriage in Middle-earth II (unhappy).
I'm enjoying reading everyone's posts here!

Bêthberry · 06-27-2002, 01:55 PM

Greetings Estelyn Telcontar,

*curtsies a cordial hello*

Thanks for providing those links. I took a quick peek but will need time to go back and read them as they deserve to be read. I'm not terribly familiar with TheSilm, though, and my young Brandybucks are home for the summer wanting equal time on the computer, LOL.

Child, I'll watch for the start to that thread. [/b].

Mark12_30, I find myself, when I can get the time, thumbing through LOTR looking at the passages with the female characters, thinking about tone. The thing which originally got me going about women in LOTR was Carpenter's biography of Tolkien. I was not impressed by the picture of the marriage which Carpenter created and that frustrated me. It didn't jive with the headstone on the Tolkien's graves. Or vice versa, I guess!

Bethberry

[ June 27, 2002: Message edited by: Bethberry ]

HerenIstarion · 10-01-2004, 06:54 AM

Updated links to the threads by Estelyn:

Marriage in Middle-earth I (happy)
Marriage in Middle-earth II (unhappy)

mark12_30 · 10-20-2004, 09:22 AM

I chuckle, rereading this thread, to think how often I've imagined sitting on some porch in Rivendell, listening to 'wide-eyed' Elijah discussing something with an elf, and being watched and listened to by a darkeyed, wise, steady, cautious 'old' Frodo.

Once upon a time, Sharon challenged me to make a fanfic out of it. Wouldn't it be fun...

smeagollives · 08-21-2007, 11:29 AM

film-frodo:

*doe eyed-kid
*he is an idealist, warm and compassionate
*he shows his feelings all the times
*not a very strong person
*easily hurt
*he has many friends, but most of his freindships are notr very close

book-frodo

*a middle aged man, does not look to beautiful, just look like middle aged men look
*he is an idealist too, but his idealism is much more intellectual, book-frodo THINKS about the right thing to do
*rarely shows his feelings, but he has very deep feelings
*has a few friends, but really good friends. cares deeply for whole the world, but does not like to be with to many people

Alfirin · 09-12-2007, 05:00 PM

[QUOTE=Naaramare;30389]::laughs:: I never really had this dilemma. Mostly because the BBC production is still the first audioalization (is that a word?) I ever heard and thus, all the voices, syntax and even visuals I have will be forever linked to that series of tapes.

Then again, I've had much more time to listen to the tapes than I have had to watch the movie, so I suppose we'll see.

I've also never had this dilemma because everything I see of everyone's interpretations of Tolkien's works simply gets added together in my mind, with details added and extracted until I end up with a Frodo I like. The Frodo of my mind looks a great deal like Elijah, but his voice is and forever will be Ian Holm's (BBC production). Ian McKellan is a perfect visual Gandalf (for me) and his voice and whoever played the BBC's voice have melded and added together until Gandalf's voice can sound in my head.

The BBC Gandalf was voiced by Sir Michael Hordern (If you want to see what he looke like rent Yellowbeard, or Theater of Blood or Danny the chapion of the World (there are a lot more but thats enough to start with) He was also the voice of Bager in the stop-motion "Wind in the willows" As you migh gess from the previos I am a great lover of the audio set as well. By the way did you find it a little creepy when you watced the Jackson movie hearing what you knew for Frodo's coming out of Bibo's mouth (both are Ian Holm after all). I also think the Lord of the Nazgul's lines are a LOT scarier in the Battle of Pellenor feilds when you can hear them clearly and the have the reverberation they do in the audio version. But then, I utterly detest the Peter Jackson Lord, I am so angry that he didn't adhere to the book description (come on can you inagine a charcter in LOTR who was better desgined for some CGI special effects that a guy wo whole head is just two glowing eyes and a lick of flame with a crown floating above it?) sorry for the rant moving on.

Getting back to the orginal focus of the thread Yes Ive felt the same thing but in a slighly funnier way. My presonal first Visual LOTR experiance (my Father read it to me as a bedime story before I could read but that isn't visual) happens to be the old Rankin Bass Cartoon version of the Hobbit and Return of the King and so it is those images that are my fundamental forms for the charcters. By now I know That Orcs are more or less human-shaped (ugly but human shaped) but I still imagine them with the horns cat eyes and dog muzzles of the cartoon. Simliarly I still think of Gollum as being the froggy fishy creature with the green skin and cave fish eyes as the cartoon even though I know this is wildly wrong. Its all how you remember things.

06-27-2002, 08:18 AM	#82
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 5,996	I must apologize to everyone here for not getting back to the discussion. I have been exceedingly busy in RL with my young Brandybucks (two graduations, one from elementary school to middle school and the other from middle school to high school) one day after another, plus unexpected visits from family outside the country. I would like to suggest to Child that she set up a new thread for us to discuss the presence and place of the feminine voice in LOTR. I would like to discuss the significance of the marriages but this is off-topic here. Nor do I have the sense that Frodo's journey west is a loss.(I hesitate to say that marriage is an expectation for everyone.) Since I am new at BD, I do not feel that I know everyone well enough to start threads yet myself. Greetings to all for their interesting ideas here. It is often enlightening at BD simply to read posts even when I don't have anything to contribute to moving the discussion forward. Respectfully, Bethberry __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

06-27-2002, 09:44 AM	#83
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Bethberry -- I'll be glad to start a new thread on the feminine in LotR as I've been thinking about some of this myself. However, don't feel shy about throwing out questions on the board. Sometimes they pan out and sometimes they don't. It just depends who is on that week, and whether their interests or questions happen to coincide with yours. I'm never sure whether something is going to connect or not, but I just put it down and then wit and see what happens. __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

06-27-2002, 11:10 AM	#84
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	Hi, Bethberry! There are two threads on marriage in Middle-earth already existing and I would be more than happy to have new contributions posted there, as they have been "resting" for awhile. One is [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]Marriage in Middle-earth I (happy), the other is [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] Marriage in Middle-earth II (unhappy). I'm enjoying reading everyone's posts here! __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

06-27-2002, 01:55 PM	#85
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 5,996	Greetings Estelyn Telcontar, curtsies a cordial hello Thanks for providing those links. I took a quick peek but will need time to go back and read them as they deserve to be read. I'm not terribly familiar with TheSilm, though, and my young Brandybucks are home for the summer wanting equal time on the computer, LOL. Child, I'll watch for the start to that thread. [/b]. Mark12_30, I find myself, when I can get the time, thumbing through LOTR looking at the passages with the female characters, thinking about tone. The thing which originally got me going about women in LOTR was Carpenter's biography of Tolkien. I was not impressed by the picture of the marriage which Carpenter created and that frustrated me. It didn't jive with the headstone on the Tolkien's graves. Or vice versa, I guess! Bethberry [ June 27, 2002: Message edited by: Bethberry ] __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

10-01-2004, 06:54 AM	#86
HerenIstarion Deadnight Chanter Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 4,244	up Updated links to the threads by Estelyn: Marriage in Middle-earth I (happy) Marriage in Middle-earth II (unhappy) __________________ Egroeg Ihkhsal - Would you believe in the love at first sight? - Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time! Last edited by HerenIstarion; 10-01-2004 at 07:20 AM. Reason: we need no highlight

10-20-2004, 09:22 AM	#87
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	I chuckle, rereading this thread, to think how often I've imagined sitting on some porch in Rivendell, listening to 'wide-eyed' Elijah discussing something with an elf, and being watched and listened to by a darkeyed, wise, steady, cautious 'old' Frodo. Once upon a time, Sharon challenged me to make a fanfic out of it. Wouldn't it be fun... __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

08-21-2007, 11:29 AM	#88
smeagollives Animated Skeleton Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 41	film-frodo: doe eyed-kid he is an idealist, warm and compassionate he shows his feelings all the times not a very strong person easily hurt he has many friends, but most of his freindships are notr very close book-frodo a middle aged man, does not look to beautiful, just look like middle aged men look he is an idealist too, but his idealism is much more intellectual, book-frodo THINKS about the right thing to do rarely shows his feelings, but he has very deep feelings has a few friends, but really good friends. cares deeply for whole the world, but does not like to be with to many people

09-12-2007, 05:00 PM	#89
Alfirin Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 435	[QUOTE=Naaramare;30389]::laughs:: I never really had this dilemma. Mostly because the BBC production is still the first audioalization (is that a word?) I ever heard and thus, all the voices, syntax and even visuals I have will be forever linked to that series of tapes. Then again, I've had much more time to listen to the tapes than I have had to watch the movie, so I suppose we'll see. I've also never had this dilemma because everything I see of everyone's interpretations of Tolkien's works simply gets added together in my mind, with details added and extracted until I end up with a Frodo I like. The Frodo of my mind looks a great deal like Elijah, but his voice is and forever will be Ian Holm's (BBC production). Ian McKellan is a perfect visual Gandalf (for me) and his voice and whoever played the BBC's voice have melded and added together until Gandalf's voice can sound in my head. The BBC Gandalf was voiced by Sir Michael Hordern (If you want to see what he looke like rent Yellowbeard, or Theater of Blood or Danny the chapion of the World (there are a lot more but thats enough to start with) He was also the voice of Bager in the stop-motion "Wind in the willows" As you migh gess from the previos I am a great lover of the audio set as well. By the way did you find it a little creepy when you watced the Jackson movie hearing what you knew for Frodo's coming out of Bibo's mouth (both are Ian Holm after all). I also think the Lord of the Nazgul's lines are a LOT scarier in the Battle of Pellenor feilds when you can hear them clearly and the have the reverberation they do in the audio version. But then, I utterly detest the Peter Jackson Lord, I am so angry that he didn't adhere to the book description (come on can you inagine a charcter in LOTR who was better desgined for some CGI special effects that a guy wo whole head is just two glowing eyes and a lick of flame with a crown floating above it?) sorry for the rant moving on. Getting back to the orginal focus of the thread Yes Ive felt the same thing but in a slighly funnier way. My presonal first Visual LOTR experiance (my Father read it to me as a bedime story before I could read but that isn't visual) happens to be the old Rankin Bass Cartoon version of the Hobbit and Return of the King and so it is those images that are my fundamental forms for the charcters. By now I know That Orcs are more or less human-shaped (ugly but human shaped) but I still imagine them with the horns cat eyes and dog muzzles of the cartoon. Simliarly I still think of Gollum as being the froggy fishy creature with the green skin and cave fish eyes as the cartoon even though I know this is wildly wrong. Its all how you remember things.

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