FotR vs. TTT Editing - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Marroc Underhill · 09-14-2003, 11:00 AM

I was watching the Two Towers, and at the beging, Gandalf says: "You cannot pass! I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Arnor! Go back to the Shadow! Dark Fire will not avail you, Flame of Udun! You cannot pass!"When in FotR Gandalf says: "You cannot pass! I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Arnor! Dark Fire will not avail you, Flame of Udun! Go back to the Shadow! You cannot pass!"Anyone else notice this? It stood out like a sore thumb to me, mainly because that is my FAVORITE scene!

Eruwen · 09-14-2003, 12:13 PM

Really? I've never noticed it before. Wow, that is funny. I guess it's just a simple editing mistake that they haven't noticed. Hahaha, I've got to go look for that now.

Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1 · 09-14-2003, 01:14 PM

Oh wow, I never noticed either!!! I wonder if it will have been corrected for the EE, because that's the one I'm getting...but I doubt it. Hehehe, I'll have to look out for it

Daisy Brambleburr · 09-14-2003, 01:43 PM

Can't believe I didn't notice that. Maybe they wanted to chop the dialogue about to make it more varied or something? But it could easily be a mistake. A bit of a silly one, mind you. I'm going to go back and look for it, and I also hope it'll be changed back for the EE, because I can't see any good reason they would have changed it around in the 1st place.

Carorëiel · 09-15-2003, 06:10 AM

I've said this elsewhere, but I'll say it again . . . . I see the Gandalf/Balrog scene at the beginning of tTT as a dream sequence. Because it is happening in Frodo's mind (ie he's dreaming), the inconsistencies are understandable. It is unlikely that he would dream the scene exactly the way it actually happened.I know this is a bit of an instance of making up a reason that fits, but it works for me. Perhaps it can work for someone else too . . . . .

09-17-2003, 02:53 PM

I noticed that right away since a watched that scene every morning before the tt came out in theaters. How could Peter Jackson or anyone else involved in the movie miss something like that?

The Only Real Estel · 09-17-2003, 02:58 PM

I don't think it was missed. The TTT scene was changed slightly from the FotR one. Notice that Frodo screams, "Nooo!" before Gandalf falls in TTT, but after in FotR. Obviously the reason for that is because they wanted Frodo's 'no' in there, but they wanted us to stay with Gandalf as he fell & not have to cut from Gandalf to Frodo & back to Gandalf. I'm inclined to agree with Carorëiel, I think it was done purposly, for reasons that we just don't really know. Is it really realistic to expect PJ to be trying to do an exact same script in the 2 movies, but leave some things out (on accident!?) in TTT? It's pretty doubtful really. Intersting thread though, Marroc Underhill. [ September 17, 2003: Message edited by: The Only Real Estel ]

09-17-2003, 03:02 PM

you are probably right. It buggs me whenever I watch it though

The Only Real Estel · 09-17-2003, 03:04 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>It buggs me whenever I watch it though<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I can understand that. Since I have FotR memorized, it's kind've hard for me to over-look it.

09-17-2003, 03:06 PM

Has anyone mamorized the two towers yet? Ive been working on it

Shy Hobbit · 09-18-2003, 09:33 AM

I noticed this the very first time I saw TTT. I thought it was quite odd, but Carorëiel and The Only Real Estel say it quite well. Does it still bug me? Yes But I think the opening scene falling with the balrog makes up for it

HCIsland · 09-19-2003, 05:52 PM

This is obviously a conscious decision and I think it has a lot to do with the slow reveal they use on the dialogue in Towers while they are flying through the mountains, trying to bring the audience back into the film. The volume of Gandalf's lines slowly increases and with each line more of the audience is brought from what's-going-on mode to I-know-where-we-are mode. You would want to have the last line before you enter the mountain to be one that would be recalled by most of the audience, besides "You cannot pass", which you want to save."Flame of Udun" is less likely to be remembered than "Go back to the shadow".Good spot though. I didn't notice it.H.C.

09-19-2003, 06:12 PM

hm thats a good theory, Gandalfs the man

Marroc Underhill · 09-19-2003, 08:00 PM

Only reason I even noticed it was that it's my FAVORITE scene! AND if you watch FotR, Gandalf has a slightly different tone of voice when he says, "Flame of Udun!" It's, oh what's the word... louder than the rest of the "speech." Maybe THATS why PJ chose for Gandalf to say, "Flame of Udun!" as the camera "zoomed" into the mountain side and into the mines. Anyone agree?Marroc

09-14-2003, 11:00 AM	#1
Marroc Underhill Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: In The Deep Places Of The World Posts: 61	FotR vs. TTT Editing I was watching the Two Towers, and at the beging, Gandalf says:<BR>"You cannot pass!<BR>I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Arnor!<BR>Go back to the Shadow!<BR>Dark Fire will not avail you, Flame of Udun!<BR>You cannot pass!"<P>When in FotR Gandalf says:<BR>"You cannot pass!<BR>I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Arnor!<BR>Dark Fire will not avail you, Flame of Udun!<BR>Go back to the Shadow!<BR>You cannot pass!"<P>Anyone else notice this? It stood out like a sore thumb to me, mainly because that is my FAVORITE scene! __________________ Hail to the Lords of Angmar, for we are the true power!

09-14-2003, 01:14 PM	#3
Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1 Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Up a tree somewhere in Caras Galadhon...or England Posts: 364	Oh wow, I never noticed either!!! I wonder if it will have been corrected for the EE, because that's the one I'm getting...but I doubt it. Hehehe, I'll have to look out for it __________________ '"Forweg can lead you no longer; for he is dead...I slew him...I will govern this fellowship now, or leave it." "As it was when he joined us, so it is again. He kills to make room."'

09-14-2003, 01:43 PM	#4
Daisy Brambleburr Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 334	Can't believe I didn't notice that. Maybe they wanted to chop the dialogue about to make it more varied or something? But it could easily be a mistake. A bit of a silly one, mind you. I'm going to go back and look for it, and I also hope it'll be changed back for the EE, because I can't see any good reason they would have changed it around in the 1st place. __________________ 'What news from the South, O sighing wind, do you bring to me at eve? Where now is Boromir the Fair? He tarries and I grieve.'

09-15-2003, 06:10 AM	#5
Carorëiel Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Tennessee Posts: 54	I've said this elsewhere, but I'll say it again . . . . <P>I see the Gandalf/Balrog scene at the beginning of tTT as a dream sequence. Because it is happening in Frodo's mind (ie he's dreaming), the inconsistencies are understandable. It is unlikely that he would dream the scene exactly the way it actually happened.<P>I know this is a bit of an instance of making up a reason that fits, but it works for me. Perhaps it can work for someone else too . . . . . __________________ "Art is our way of keeping track of what we know and have known, secretly, from the beginning."--John Gardner

09-17-2003, 02:58 PM	#7
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	I don't think it was missed. The TTT scene was changed slightly from the FotR one. Notice that Frodo screams, "Nooo!" before Gandalf falls in TTT, but after in FotR. Obviously the reason for that is because they wanted Frodo's 'no' in there, but they wanted us to stay with Gandalf as he fell & not have to cut from Gandalf to Frodo & back to Gandalf. I'm inclined to agree with Carorëiel, I think it was done purposly, for reasons that we just don't really know. Is it really realistic to expect PJ to be trying to do an exact same script in the 2 movies, but leave some things out (on accident!?) in TTT? It's pretty doubtful really. <P> Intersting thread though, Marroc Underhill. <p>[ September 17, 2003: Message edited by: The Only Real Estel ]

09-14-2003, 12:13 PM	#2
Eruwen Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 892	Really? I've never noticed it before. Wow, that is funny. I guess it's just a simple editing mistake that they haven't noticed. Hahaha, I've got to go look for that now.

09-17-2003, 02:53 PM	#6
Flame of Arnor Guest Posts: n/a	I noticed that right away since a watched that scene every morning before the tt came out in theaters. How could Peter Jackson or anyone else involved in the movie miss something like that?

09-17-2003, 03:02 PM	#8
Flame of Arnor Guest Posts: n/a	you are probably right. It buggs me whenever I watch it though

09-17-2003, 03:04 PM	#9
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>It buggs me whenever I watch it though<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I can understand that. Since I have FotR memorized, it's kind've hard for me to over-look it.

09-17-2003, 03:06 PM	#10
Flame of Arnor Guest Posts: n/a	Has anyone mamorized the two towers yet? Ive been working on it

09-18-2003, 09:33 AM	#11
Shy Hobbit Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In my own little world Posts: 201	I noticed this the very first time I saw TTT. I thought it was quite odd, but Carorëiel and The Only Real Estel say it quite well. Does it still bug me? Yes But I think the opening scene falling with the balrog makes up for it __________________ Make Middle-Earth a friendlier place, hug a balrog today! ~The Fellowship of the King~

09-19-2003, 05:52 PM	#12
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	This is obviously a conscious decision and I think it has a lot to do with the slow reveal they use on the dialogue in Towers while they are flying through the mountains, trying to bring the audience back into the film. The volume of Gandalf's lines slowly increases and with each line more of the audience is brought from what's-going-on mode to I-know-where-we-are mode. You would want to have the last line before you enter the mountain to be one that would be recalled by most of the audience, besides "You cannot pass", which you want to save.<P>"Flame of Udun" is less likely to be remembered than "Go back to the shadow".<P>Good spot though. I didn't notice it.<P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

09-19-2003, 06:12 PM	#13
Flame of Arnor Guest Posts: n/a	hm thats a good theory, Gandalfs the man

09-19-2003, 08:00 PM	#14
Marroc Underhill Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: In The Deep Places Of The World Posts: 61	Only reason I even noticed it was that it's my FAVORITE scene! AND if you watch FotR, Gandalf has a slightly different tone of voice when he says, "Flame of Udun!" It's, oh what's the word... louder than the rest of the "speech." Maybe THATS why PJ chose for Gandalf to say, "Flame of Udun!" as the camera "zoomed" into the mountain side and into the mines. Anyone agree?<P>Marroc __________________ Hail to the Lords of Angmar, for we are the true power!

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