What REALLY happened to Gwindor?

[Eol]

What really happened to Gwindor


After a small discussion on another thread about Luthien, it came to my curiousity of what happened to Gwindor during his captivity and slavery to Morgoth. He saw the slaughter of his brother during their battle and was capture shortly afterwards. He was later found my Beleg during the serach for Turin who was captured by the Orcs.

Gwindor returned home to the kingdom once ruled by Finrod Felagund. He had a lady friend,Finduilas, whom he loved deeply. Though this changes and her heart goes to Turin, but he loves her not. She becomes sorrowful and confused to what to do. Gwindor gives her this advice.

But Gwindor sat in dark thoughts; and on a time her spoke to Findauilas saying,' Daughter of the house of Finarfin, let no grief lie between us, for though Morgoth had laid my life in ruin, you still I love. Go whither love leads you; yet beware! It is not befitting that the Elder Children of Iluvatar should wed with the Younger; nor is it wise, for they are brief, and soon pass, to leave us in widowhood while the world lasts. Neither will fate suffer it, unless it be once or twice only, for some high cause for doom that we do not perceive.....

Silmarillion, 210

Gwindor goes on to say that a terrible doom lays on Turin and it is not the same as Beren and Luthien. Turin gets upset as he finds out his friend calls him cursed finding it herasy, when in fact even Morgoth tells his father, Hurin, that he is to sit and watch all those close to him fall under a terrible curse.


What happened to Gwindor? Who was he before the capture and how did he change once he fled? What would have caused Finduilas to have a change of heart and love a Man?

[ August 11, 2002: Message edited by: Eol ]

[Kuruharan]

What happened to Gwindor?

He was probably forced to work in mines or something like that. And he was probably beaten and tormented regularly (orc overseers being the way they are).

Who was he before the capture

Based on the fact that he was the leader of the company from Nargothrond and that he was in love with the king's daughter I'd say that he was somebody fairly important. Aside from that there's no way of knowing.

how did he change once he fled?

He was physically and emotionally scarred by the experience. He does not seem to be a very happy-go-lucky guy once he gets back.

What would have caused Finduilas to have a change of heart and love a Man?

Turin was prettier? I really don't have any idea because Turin was not a happy-go-lucky guy either. As a matter of fact he was sometimes downright surly.

Maybe Finduilas had a desire to be like Luthien, and Turin was the only man in the area to fall in love with.

[ August 11, 2002: Message edited by: Kuruharan ]

[Maédhros]

What happened to Gwindor? Who was he before the capture and how did he change once he fled? What would have caused Finduilas to have a change of heart and love a Man?

I agree with Kuruharan that Gwindor was tortured both physically and mentally. He was not the same elf he once was.
As to the change of heart of Findulias, I can only guess that it was "the change that ocurred in him". It should have been something very strong because elves are only allowed to have only one mate their entire lives.

[Joy]

It should have been something very strong because elves are only allowed to have only one mate their entire lives.

Then what about Finwe? He was married to Meriel Serindë, then to Indis.

Was this an exception becuase he lived in Valinor and his wife departed (to the Halls of Mandos) after giving birth to Fëanor. Are Elves not allowed becuase their spouse is still alive in the West?

I hope this made sense. I am very tired and should be in bed!

[ August 12, 2002: Message edited by: Joy ]

[Mister Underhill]

It doesn't take much imagination to picture Finduilas's love shifting from Gwindor to Túrin -- Gwindor broken, bent, aged, fearful; Túrin young, proud, brave, and brooding. It's like a choice between the Elvish Don Knotts and a First Age James Dean.

I'll also just toss in the fact that Gwindor had no doubt been presumed dead for many years. I doubt that Finduilas's love was quite the same after his sudden reappearance, especially considering his diminished form.

[ August 12, 2002: Message edited by: Mister Underhill ]

[Eol]

This is what I had discussed on another thread about Gwindor. Thanks you for your posts, they have been great!


I would have to agree with squatter. Tragic events WILL change people. My brother was in a car wreck, he walked away with mild brain damage to his short term memory.
His personality changed and his relationship with his other brother became astranged. It is still really unknown why, but I think it had to do with the personality change. Before the accident, he was different( it has been so long now I cannot recall) now he is passive, emotional and under heavy stress becomes forgetful.

In conclusion, Gwindor went through a serious transformation and it affected his personality and did affect his relationship with his lady friend. It is your guess how, but I feel it goes far beyond physical appearance.

I attempted to consider what would have happened to Gwindor: abused(physical, mental, sexual), torment. Try to conisder your greatest phobia and lock yourself in a room with it. Then take that emotion and prolong it for years. That is the only way I can even comprehend what happened to his poor fellow.

Later it mentioned that Gwindor had dark thoughts. I suppose this can be viewed in several ways. This could a form of depression or the Post-tramatic syndrome( correct name?) that is commonly suffered by war veterans. He may have also new phobias that he may have suffered from: clastphobia, fear of dark places. Paranoia can also cause problems if it was not there before. He was certainly a whole different being upon his return. A wraith, ghost from the past, but not the same person.

Another thought just occured to me, what if Morgoth had prevented Gwindor from dieing? He would be a verge of passing and He would grabbed ahold and keep him barely alive. Is that within Morgoth's power?

[ August 12, 2002: Message edited by: Eol ]

[Inderjit Sanghera]

I think that Turin did love Finduilas, it is just that Turin's curse messed things up for him. Maybe, they'll get together at the end after the last battle? I hope so.