The Lingering Darkness Planning/Discussion Thread

[piosenniel]

*sound of a satisfied sigh . . .

Two cups of coffee later, and I have read this very promising story through to its most recent post.

As Snowdog said: Happy writing everyone!

And Happy Reading, for me!

Your addicted peruser . . .

~~ Pio

[Ealasaide]

Mercy! You guys are quick!!! [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

Ealasaide the Snail will be posting just as soon as I get caught up with all these new posts!

[Elora]

Haven't enjoyed a RP like this for a long while! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]


Naiore, put down that snail! It's not for eating! That's Ealasaide! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Imladris]

I've finally gotten around to reading the posts in the Green Dragon Inn Part Four and they make everything so much easier to understand...the character seem so much more real, you know? Yes, I know, Maethor isn't supposed to know yet.

[Elora]

Glad that some more light onto the matter has been thrown for you, Imladris. Have to say, if you were indeed posting "in the dark" you've done an impressive job. Maethor is a wonderful character. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]


Something I mentioned Nerindel in a P.M is a decision concerning Vanwe's opinion of her mother and father.

Given all that Vanwe has endured, I thought it unlikely that she would have done so if she truly believed all that is said of her parents. Vanwe will have built up an idealised version of her parents to comfort her in the Haradwaithe. There was nothing else to offer ease for the conditions she experienced there aside from her own internal "world".

Vanwe will be experiencing a classic conflict between what her mind tells her and what her heart wishes to be true. Namely, Vanwe wishes for her mother to be a loving one and her father to be alive. However, all the information she has points to another situation entirely.

I figure that this makes sense for her back story as well as facilitating the forward plot. It answers why she would have bothered to incur the wrath of the Southrons in order to seek only more woe. It will make it easier for Naiore to lull her daughter also.

Naiore does not lie outright, but she does hint and use ambigious statements that she knows will be interpreted however the listener's wishes. With a combination of "beautiful" deception and circumstance, Naiore will be able to lure Vanwe away and keep her compliant longer than by use of force. Obviously, though, Vanwe has to realise the truth and she will have her doubts. She's not a complete fool, and Naiore cannot maintain a guise of traditional loving mother indefinately.

Vanwe will realise that her mother is as terrible as all say, perhaps Menecin will be the final straw that breaks her internal wishful thinking - don't know yet. But the extent of betrayal at that point will be massive enough to act as impetus for Vanwe to take action and pursue her mother for a reckonning. In fact, it may be the first time Vanwe was ever truly angry in her life. (Hmmm, gotta figure out how that will work).

Of course, she also has the challenge of forging alliances with those she does not trust entirely yet - which is largely the entire known and unknown world. That's another issue I have to think about.

Such is her fear of authority figures, Rangers included, that it would make it extraordinarily difficult for her to set that aside and trust them. Therefore she would need something extraordinary to impel her to do so... perhaps a beginning of a bond with a Ranger that is interrupted by Naiore's removal of Vanwe.

I suspect she'll come to trust Amandur over time, particularly with Lespheria's influence. Maethor and Rauthain she may be able to trust more readily in the right circumstances, as neither have had the opportunity to ask her the sorts of questions that Vanwe finds lands her in a prison somewhere for further interrogation.

Hanasian she already has an unusually close (for Vanwe) bond with, but that could be tested when he tells her of her mother. Also Vanwe has a growing bond with Lespheria and a lesser one with Benia and Gilly (she's undecided about both - friend or foe or both?).

Menecin will frighten the living daylights out of her... he frightens the living daylights out of himself... it would take Vanwe a very long time to even dare speak to Elladan or Elrohir. So too does Kaldir...

For Vanwe, survival will be based on her ability to make the right decisions about who to trust.

Just thought that would help when trying to plan how Vanwe might react to your character. Menecin is unpredictable, but right now is only reacting to the voices in his head. Naiore will either kill you or decide to truss you up for later sport. Barrold, well Barrold will try to sell you something or alternatively sell you.

Any more characters to predict???? I've lost track

[Nerindel]

*Claps hand excitedly*

Great posts everyone! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Anyway as I read over the posts I noticed that Léspheria's post is a little out of place (time wise). So when we reach morning in the Rpg I will move it, just so it fits better. Ok [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Also just so everyone know's, I don't see Léspheria returning to the inn until the following night. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

We are doing rather good here aren't we! I know I'm hooked. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Gilly's post will have to take place close to dawn, so if anyone has a mind to change the time please give warning here. I don't want to post her yet as I feel the night is progressing rather well!

[Imladris]

Well, I wasn't posting totally in the dark...more in the twilight. I had read and re-read the bios and history, but it never made sense to me how Lespheria and Amandur, etc. all fit in with Naiore and that, of course, was answered in the Green Dragon.

As I was walking today, it occured to me that when they leave the Inn and the skirmishes are going on, that Maethor would probably be easy prey for Naiore for a few reasons:
1. He is young for a ranger.
2. He resists the thought that an Elf could turn to evil ways.
3. Well, he is rather naieve sometimes. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

This doesn't mean that I want him killed...just a thought.

[Snowdog]

Ok, I posted. Hope its understandable as I was pounding the keys here with much distractions...
("Dad, can I have the computer when your done?"
'No, you need to go to bed as you have school in the morning.'
"But you have to work tomorrow, and you have to get up earlier than me..."
'Go To Bed!!!')
"OK!!!" Teenagers... [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] my own that is. No offense meant toward any in this present company. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Anyway, I tried to touch on all that has gone on, and I took Hanasían up to await Amandur, and will wait til sunrise to post again. I look forward to reading everyone elses night posts!

Imladris, your character is great! Actually every character is great! So much diversity here. This is bringing back the joys of my RP days of yesteryear!

[ September 10, 2003: Message edited by: Snowdog ]

[Elora]

Wish I could do as well in shaping my posts as others here ( Snowdog and Imladris )


At any rate, I plan to keep Vanwe in Lespheria's rooms until the wee hours of the morn. She will then attempt to get out to the stables, feeling somewhat guilty about squatting in another's rooms.

Naiore, naturally, will use that opportunity well - provided this meets with everyone else's arrangements.

Snowdog & Nerindel, Easalaide could you please let me know if your characters need to interact or sight either Naiore or Vanwe before mother and daughter meet. I don't want to skip too far ahead in one post and ruin your own ideas and plans.

Imladris, your observations are duly noted by one Naiore Dannan, Ravennor of Mordor. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Well Snowdog your post doesn't show the distractions at all! It is hard to write with life packed to the gills already! Right Ealasaide?

Nice job Elora, especially with Elrond's sons, but I did want to ask if you really need the passage about Naiore assisting Sauron in picking wraiths. I highly doubt this could/would happen as Sauron was not openly evil at that point and probably had individuals or titles in mind as the rings of power were forged. Plus he doesn't seem much of a delegator! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Nerindel]

Snowdog & Nerindel, Easalaide could you please let me know if your characters need to interact or sight either Naiore or Vanwe before mother and daughter meet. I don't want to skip too far ahead in one post and ruin your own ideas and plans.

Yes! I had rather hoped that Naiore would be leaving with Vanwe the following night, I quiet fancied the idea of them running into Léspheria on their departure! I see a few things happening here:

Mistaken Identity - Naiore initially mistakes Léspheria for her cousin, Valaindon! (Léspheria's mother) who she thinks dead. but with her senses or through Vanwe she will learn otherwise.

Growing friendship - Léspheria senses, Vanwe's elation at being reunited with her mother and not wishing to jepordise their growing friendship, she will not raise arms against Naiore, thinking it best that Vanwe sees the truth for herself. I imagine at this point Naiore will not attack Lespheria in front of Vanwe, but will see Lespheria's growing friendship with Vanwe as a bit of an irony and see it as the same weakness Lespheria's mother possessed.

Léspheria can then go on to the inn or meet the rangers as they take up Naiores trail. She will not Abandon the young elf [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

What do you think [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

I see Léspheria in most respects as Naiores opposite, ie: where Naiore see's love, loyalty, compassion, frienship....etc. as weaknesses Léspheria finds strength in this things and were the darker emotions fascinate Naiore, Léspheria fears them and what they can do to people.

These emotions have almost destroyed her twice, although the emotions were not her own. The first was the year she endured her mothers torture through an emotional link they shared. The second was her first encounter with the Bard Menecin when he was brought to Rivendell.

Anyway, I have to get to work now, I hope that was insightfull to Léspheria's character [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Snowdog I will put up a post for Amandur tonight (GMT) [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[ September 10, 2003: Message edited by: Nerindel ]

[Ealasaide]

Elora - No, my characters will not need to interact with Naiore or Vanwe directly until they have met up with each other the next day. Kaldir will have to deal with Benia's escape before he can pick up Naiore's trail. That also gives me a handy "out" as to why he doesn't catch Vanwe before she falls in with Naiore.

Once Kaldir has dealt with Benia & Gilly to his satisfaction, he will return to the inn's grounds to look for Naiore. I see this happening sometime in mid-to-late morning? Before the other Rangers realize Naiore is so close. I think it is very important that Kaldir gets out on her trail before the others.

[Imladris]

Gosh, thanks for all the compliments about my character! *blushes sheepishly*

No, I don't think Maethor needs any interaction with Naiore and Vanwe before they meet...

[Snowdog]

Snowdog & Nerindel, Easalaide could you please let me know if your characters need to interact or sight either Naiore or Vanwe before mother and daughter meet. I don't want to skip too far ahead in one post and ruin your own ideas and plans.

I thionk Hanasían will see Vanwe in the early morn after he talks with Amandur, and he will have to decide his course. Of course the other Rangers will want to pursue Naiore right off, which is the immediate goal of the mission. However, he wants to know where Benia went, and suspects Kaldir doing something in his absence.

Nice job Elora, especially with Elrond's sons, but I did want to ask if you really need the passage about Naiore assisting Sauron in picking wraiths. I highly doubt this could/would happen as Sauron was not openly evil at that point and probably had individuals or titles in mind as the rings of power were forged. Plus he doesn't seem much of a delegator!

The passage , but its inclusion will hardly have any relevence to this RP, so lets not get so wrapped up in details [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]. My take on this sort of thing is if it doesn't contradict Tolkien's own writings in the story, then there is alot of 'behind-the-scenes' interactions that could have gone on. For instance... We know from the appendices in Return of the King that the Dúnedain were ever diligent in protecting the northern plains and hills from incursions of evil (wargs, orcs, etc.), but there is little details given as to the actual events that took place. Example... Arathorn II, Aragorn's father was killed by an orc arrow in the eye, but the details are left out. So it would be presumed that they pursued and otherwise had an entanglment with a band of orcs somewhere in the lands that had made up the Kingdom of Arnor. Going by the history of the Northern Dúnedain, it was apparent that there were many such battles, skirmishes, incursions over the years since the Witch-King was driven out. Are we not free to make up our bits of story within these confines, as long as no canon is affected? Anyway, I am getting long-winded here. Lets write and let the creativity flow!

Nerendil, it sounds good to me!

Well, I'm at work, so have to get back to it.
Happy writing all! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Snowdog, I’m not sure that I follow your point. I’m not against fabrication of details, but do oppose altering the personality traits of characters Tolkien has fully fleshed out, especially if it does little to enhance our own RP. It is unnecessary. And at anyrate I’m no expert and it is just my 2 cents, to be taken or not.

[Snowdog]

Sorry Hilde, didn't mean to ruffle you. Since it had little to do with the RP, to me it is just as easy to ignore and move forward than to bring it up. But that is me and everyone sees things different.

So, peace, and onward! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

No problem Snowdog, I'm just learning about this RPG stuff. I realize now I should have PM'd regarding this matter rather than put it on the discussion thread. Sorry. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

[Elora]

Yikes.... Maverickian Elora has struck again! [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

I should clarify something first, as this may well be the source of contention (polite contention as it is). Naiore did not go out and choose the nine Mortal Men. You're quite right in that Sauron was not the sort to share.

But in the Second Age, Sauron was on a con job. He had to appear nice. He couldn't be openly nasty (even though Galadriel and Gil-galad did not fall for the guise).

Naiore, with her keen empathy, would have been well placed in those days to observe Mortal Men, and detect those more open to approaches than others. She herself would not have been openly known to be what she was. Her true colours were not revealed to the Free Peoples until much later.

So, Naiore would only have been able to sense those susceptible to power, greed and lust for dominion. That's the limit I have placed on her role in selection: identifying likely targets. Of course, Sauron could have used Naiore in many ways.

For example, "Surely I can not be as grim and terrible as the lies say, for do I not have an High Elf in my service?" But that's a tale for another day. Certainly, it has intrigued me how Naiore would have interacted with the Wraiths in Mordor. Both were of rank, both would have been allies and enemies.

But that is another tale in how that would have gone, those factional struggles for power and dominion with Mordor. Sauron would have allowed that to a point as it kept his minions controllable - if they banded together, there is no telling what power structure they may challenge - even his own! Unthinkable - divide and conquer!

Yes, the power and political landscape of Mordor through the ages, and Sauron in particular through all 3 ages, has long interested me.

With that clarification now said, have I managed still to radically alter Sauron?


I'll delay Naiore's snatch and grab job until the following night. Thanks for letting me know about that! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] An Ent would call me positively hasty, and perhaps a little orcling too, but that's another story in and of itself! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Ealasaide]

Elora:

I'll delay Naiore's snatch and grab job until the following night. Thanks for letting me know about that!

To what are you referring? I have the distinct feeling that I am missing something. If Naiore is not snatching Vanwe until the following evening, I guess that will leave me with some time to kill with Kaldir. I can't very well have him creeping about the woods all day & neither confronting Naiore nor capturing Vanwe.

[ September 10, 2003: Message edited by: Ealasaide ]

[Elora]

Well I had planned on Naiore grabbing Vanwe on the first night of the RP... but based on Snowdog and Nerindel's plans I thought I could delay it a little.

As for how much I delay the actual encounter, I do not know. Perhaps Naiore can snatch Vanwe during the day. It does not necessarily have to occur under the cover of darkness.

Perhaps a morning snatch, which allows everyone to do what they had planned to do with their characters would suit everyone... I'm sure Naiore would like to quit squatting out in the wilds as soon as she may.

Does that suit? Looking for a best fit solution for us all. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Ealasaide]

Oh! Okay. A morning snatch was what I was expecting, but if that doesn't suit everyone else, I can always adjust. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

I just wanted to make sure I knew what was happening. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Elora]

You and me both [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Last night I was merrily planning ahead when it occurred to me that maybe my ideas had remained locked in my head and that I hadn't COM-MUN-I-CAT-ED to others. Kind of a typical oversight. Can create hiccups, although it does make for an interesting and surprising unfolding of a RP, particularly when the plot is not so distinctly shaped! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Hopefully a morning snatch will work for everyone... An idea will be that when Devorin realises that Vanwe hasn't taken Deor for a run, a search party will be organised to locate the missing horse. As stable hand, Vanwe will naturally set out, which gives Naiore the necessary chance.

Perhaps Vanwe will even find traces of trail that Naiore missed in her hurry... dunno yet. Another idea that just decided to float about aimlessly inside my empty skull. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Ealasaide]

An idea will be that when Devorin realises that Vanwe hasn't taken Deor for a run, a search party will be organised to locate the missing horse. As stable hand, Vanwe will naturally set out, which gives Naiore the necessary chance

Ooh! I like it!

[Snowdog]

Morning snatch works for me.

Hilde, I guess I am kind of old at RP, for I have had many a good RP go to pieces because of minor issues boiling up into major tiffs. My apologies for that. You write pretty well in my opinion.

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Thanks, I wish I could write faster though, need to knock off the rust here!

I still stand with my first statement, but don't want to make anyone uncomfortable with it. As long as it's not a keystone of sorts in the story, I won't bring it up again.

[ September 11, 2003: Message edited by: Hilde Bracegirdle ]

[Elora]

Let me assure everyone that it was only a passing reference and certainly was added in order to convey the depth of the character's involvement with Mordor.

Have yet to decide if I'm old or young as far as RP goes.... old enough to know better than to sprinkle references such as that and young enough to make such boldness somewhat of a expectation. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

OK, dawn snatch seems to be the go.

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Thought it might be useful to post this here for reference, hope it is right. I'm trying to work up a connection between Kaldir and Rauthain involving this stuff.

Raven Falls: Where a band of rangers were ambushed by orcs, 3 years prior to the War of the Ring.

In current RPG Hanasían mentions that one was killed and one (Kaldir) was missing as a result.

Green Dragon mentions Hanasían woke up in a pool nearly drowned (nice imagery).
Kaldir was carted off and evidentially wound up getting to know Naiore better than he would have cared too.

Names of the rangers:
Elendir - the leader?
Halbarad
Hanasían
Kaldir
Rauthain
2 others

Did they have a mission? Was it to pursue Orcs or something else? Anybody care to speculate?

I’ve gone back and fixed a post of mine when it came to my attention that Naiore was not present at the time. My apologies Elora, I goofed. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]


EDIT: I have amended this to add the time, thanks Ealasaide!

[ September 11, 2003: Message edited by: Hilde Bracegirdle ]

[Ealasaide]

Hilde - the Battle of Raven Falls was three years prior to the War of the Ring.

[Snowdog]

I'll have to go look at the posts in Green Dragon Part 4, somewhere in the page 5-8 range. Have a meeting here at work at 1 so it will be a coule hours before I can clarify.

[Elora]

I'll pull my weight and take a look at it as well. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Nerindel]

Sorry everyone I have been having connection problems, but hopefully it is fixed now [img]smilies/redface.gif[/img]

Pio could you please put this post after Snowdogs dated Septemper 10, 2003 01:09 thank you! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Amandur

As Hanasían made his way from the common room, Amandur re-lit his pipe and collected his thoughts, there was much to tell and much he hoped Hanasían would reveal to him. His hand went to his breast pocket and pulled out the neatly folded parchment, Elessar's message revealed very little only that others where also on Naiores trail and that if he could he should join with them. But in Bree Lóthaniel had told him much and this he would share with his brethren.

Deeming that enough time had passed since Hanasían's departure he rose from his seat and made his way up stairs, he paused at Léspheria's door, remembering his promise to her to watch over Vanwe while he remained at the inn. She will be safe tonight at least he thought as he continued on to his room. He grinned as he turned the small brass handle and found it unlocked,

"The key was not needed then my friend ." he laughed as he closed the door behind him.

"No" Hanasian replied a wry grin on his face as he fingered the Khandese dagger he had used to open the door.

"You wish to know what I know of both Naiore and Vanwe," he whispered grimly as he walked toward the window.

"Only recently have we discovered that Naiore had a daughter, The elven ranger Lothaniel and a few of the kings men were patrolling the road to Belfalas when they heard rumours that an elf fitting Naiore's description had be seen in the area, they picked up the trail and Lothaniel became concerned when they found out that their quarry inquired about the elven bard Menecin, who is protected by the elves of Rivendell. They caught up to their quarry in Firien wood as she rested by the Mering stream. Lóthaniel being their scout on this journey had been the first to see their quarry. At once he knew they had made a mistake, the elf was younger than Naiore and her demeanour was not that of the Revennor of Mordor, also their was one major difference.. her eyes were that of her fathers, an elf that Lothaniel helped to protect. They immediately fell back and sent messengers to King Elessar and Lord Celeborn, telling them of their discovery." Amandur turned from the window to look at Hanasían, he looked up as Amandur paused, waiting for him to continue.

"When they learnt that the young elven woman was searching for her mother they decided to stay on her trail hoping that the daughter would lead them to her mother. But in Rohan they lost her trail. They realised that Vanwe was heading north so they went on to Rivendell with Lóthaniel, thinking to continue the search for Naiore in the north after replenishing their supplies. But this did not happen at this time Skaikrish an orc Chief, who somehow managed to escape from Mordor and lead a band of orc's into the Blue Mountains." Amandur looked at Hanasian as though contemplating his next words.

"I do not know if you remember Captain Halwain, he was a friend of your fathers... well his wife was killed By Skaikrish when he escaped through Ithilien. On finding out that Skaikrish was gathering an army in the Blue mountains, he took a scouting party to find out what the orc was up to, but none of them returned! Lóthaniels orders were to travel with the rangers and pick up the trail of Naiore, but with this change of circumstance, Lóthaniel and the rangers were sent to the Mountians With Halwain's daughter, to try to find the missing rangers and investigate if Skaikrish posed a threat. Like Lóthaniel I feel that the orc chiefs sudden boldness at this time is not coincidental."

"I also believe that Naiore is nearer than we believe, Lady Léspheria of Rivendell is able to read the emotions of others and this morning she sensed someone in those woods!" he said again turning to the window and looking down on the moonlit trees.

"When I searched the area there was no discernible footprints but the earth was disturbed, but any of the inns less than reputable patrons could have caused this." he sighed not truly believing his own words and waited for Hanasían's insight.

*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*

I have also moved Lespheria's post [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Ok now I'm off to catch up [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

[Ealasaide]

Welcome back, Nerindel! I hope you have your computer problems ironed out now. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Those can be such a hassle!

[piosenniel]

Nerindel

Your post is placed.

~~ Pio [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Nerindel]

Thanks Ealasaide, well I've managed to get my next post up so it's looking good [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Thanks Pio [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Ok,Snowdog what news does Hanasian have from Minas Tirith? [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Ealasaide]

Ok,Snowdog what news does Hanasian have from Minas Tirith?

Snowdog -- you can always have Pio insert the necessary post somewhere above the morning's action around the stable... but then you probably already know that! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Ealasaide]

There's a great map of the area of Middle Earth (Northern Eriador) that we are writing about on Page 74-75 of Fonstad's "Atlas of Middle Earth".

I just thought I would mention it for anyone who does not already know about it. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Snowdog]

crap! I didn't see the back-post! Well, my edit will have to wait as Im off th get a molar pulled.
later all.

Edit: Ok, I'm kind of groggy on this medication, but I will edit to include the above back-post from Amandur. Sorry I missed it this morning but I was pressed for time to get to the dentist.

[ September 12, 2003: Message edited by: Snowdog ]

[Elora]

I need an index for my sticky post-it notes that bedeck my atlas.... but I needs must concur. I use that map as my reference for any Eriador planning (when I allow myself time to reference anything).


Snowdog want a beer to go with that spinning head? [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Imladris]

I know this is a little early to be you guys this, but I know that if I don't do it now, I'm sure I won't remember to do it later, so here goes. I will be going on a trip at the end of September into the beginning of October...I will be able to get internet access, but my posting might be a bit sporadic.