Questions

[Elendur]

I have quite a few questions to ask.

There was a discussion earlier about the Istari and
why they were sent to Middle Earth instead of having
the Valar go and beat up Sauron. There were some good
reasons. First off, if they had used their power to
defeat Sauron, the lands around Mordor would end up
being a pit of lava. Secondly, and this is the best
reason, is that it brought the peoples of Middle Earth
together. It turned out to be a very good decision on
Manwes part and everything turned out to be for the
best because the Ring was destroyed and so on.

But I have a question. When Melkor openly declared
himself to be against the other Valar, they realized
that they had to do something about it. He was one of
them and it was their problem. There was a good reason why
they would have to do something about it too. And that
is that they were the only ones who could have destroyed Melkor.
The elves going to fight Melkor themselves was a bad thing
because the Valar knew that he could not be
defeated forever. Even if the elves had beaten Melkor,
his spirit would have come back. Eventually, I think,
the elves would have lost no matter what. So the Valar
doing something about it was inevitable. Eventually,
they go to Thangorodrim to rid Middle Earth of evil
for once and all. But some of the evil survives - most importantly Sauron.

They go back to Aman satisfied that they have done the
right thing... even though some things ended up for
the worst like The Silmarills. Then, after a while,
they realize that Sauron is back. Here is the weird
part. They all of the sudden decide it is not their
problem. Why? At the council, it is asked if the Ring
could be brought to the West (meaning bring it to the
Valar), but Elrond and Gandalf both agree that this is
Middle Earths problem and they should have to deal
with it. I dont think they would have said that if the
Valar didn't think the same thing.

Now I understand that sending emissaries like the
Istari was a very good thing and helped Middle Earth
in more ways than one. But why should mortal peoples
have to do all the hard work in destroying Sauron.
Just because Sauron made a ring in Middle Earth doesn't
mean it is supposed to be their problem to deal with.
The Valar didn't do their job right by leaving Sauron
their to take the place of Melkor. And then when they
know help is needed they send some puny wizards to do
what they will in the struggle against Sauron. That
does not seem very logical. Sauron was invincible
almost. Besides by getting extremely lucky (cant put
enough enphasis on how lucky), the Istari could never have
done anything but show people what to do before being
killed by Saurons armies. Why did the Valar never
help? Did they know that things would turn out the way
they did? I understand fate has alot to do with what
happens in Ea, but it doesn't always turn out for the
best.

And I have a question about Mandos. He knew what would
happen, didn't he? He has insight into things that
will "come to pass" as Galadriel would put it. So why
didn't he tell Manwe that they should have attacked
Melkor first before the Noldor did in the First Age
when he escaped from Aman? In the end, more damage was
done than need be. If they had just gone out in the
first place and whooped Melkor, I dont think things
with Feanor would have turned out the way they did.
Then the men could have had a free Middle Earth to
live on. The only problem with this is the Silmarills would have come back. I know this would create a big commotion in Aman about whether Feanor would give the Valar
the Silmarills or not, but I think things would have turned out alright unless Feanor decided to stay in Middle Earth with
his precious jewels. But I wont go into that
because it is not a question. And to go even further into this, why didn't Mandos tell Manwe to keep Melkor locked up? If he knew alot about the future, he obviously knew that Melkor would still be evil. Then Feanor could have made the Silmarills in peace and they would be jewels that were good instead of being a source of evil.

And why did the dominion of man have to come? I dont
understand why the elves faded in Middle Earth when in the beginning
they were meant to live on that very land. Did it have
to do with the sun? I remember an elf saying "All
things under the sun must pass". I think it was in
LOTR when the fellowship was in Lorien.

And just to get things straight about immortality on
Aman. The elves say (in Numenor) that if Men tried to
come to Aman they would not be immortal.

The Doom of the World, One alone can change who
made it. And were you so to voyage that escaping all
deceits and snares you came indeed to Ama, the Blessed
Realm, little would it profit you. For it is not the
land of Manwe that makes its people deathless, but the
Deathless that dwell therein have hallowed the land;
and there you would but wither and grow weary the
sooner, as moths in a light too strong and
steadfast.

And then there is a little text in a letter by Tolkien
to Lewis on the matter.

The view is taken (as clearly appears later in
the case of the Hobbits that have the Ring for a
while) that each 'Kind' has a natural span, integral
to its biological and spriitual nature. This cannot
really be increased qualitatively or quantitatively;
so that prolongation in time is like streching a wire
out ever tauter, or 'spreading butter ever thinner' -
it becomes and intolerable torment.

And then there is the story of Beren having the
Silmarill for a while. It said he aged much faster
because of the jewel alone.

I dont know how this all fits into Men and
immortality, but I can guess. If Men went to Aman they
COULD prolong their life, but it would be torturous to
them. Eventually they would want to die. I just want
to know am I right? And also, elves were immortal because
that is the way they were born. So why does the elf say to the Numonereans "For it is not the land of Manwe that makes its people deathless, but the Deathless that dwell therein have hallowed the land." What does this mean? It seems to say that elves hallowing their land makes them deathless, but that is not right. I know I have to be reading something into it that is wrong, so I would like some explanation.

For my final question, what is the Barrow Wights
email?

Thanks for all your future answering. More questions
to come later.

Sorry about the weird look of my post. I had to copy it into my email because I couldnt post for a while for some reason I dont know.

[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: Elendur ]

[Thingol]

So many questions, so little time [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
I do not believe that Mandos was allowed to reveal all of the fait of Arda, I believe I read somewhere that Illuvitar prohibited him from telling Manwe and the other Vala everything. Manwe must have hoped that Melkor had really reformed and I guess Mandos must have thought/known that waiting to beat up Melkor was for the best. As for the question as to why the Valar didn't just go and capture Sauron imidiatly, it says in the Silmarillion that seeing the fall of his master Sauron humbled himself before Eonwe and asked for forgiveness. But since Sauron was of the same order as Eonwe, Eonwe said Sauron had to go to Aman to be pardoned. Sauron chickens out and goes and hides. I don't think that the Valar were able to find Sauron and with Belriand sinking and all the destruction going on I guess they just thought it was best to leave him. By the time Sauron declared himself openly again, the Valar would have had to do more damage to ME to get him again. Plus as you pointed out they probably knew it was going to turn out better if the ring was kept in ME. Even without the ring Sauron probably would have overcome ME, so it makes sense that the Valar wouldn't want to take it. As for the why the elves had to fade, I think it is just a quality of ME itself. It says everything fades quicker in the appendix of The Return of the King (Ex: The span of men’s lifetime’s gets shorter and shorter). As for Aman, I think it is similar to Lorien in that time doesn't have the same affect as it does in ME. It actually says that Beren dies quicker because he is exposed to the light of the silmarill. I guess men can’t handle the differences in the passage of time. I do not know what Barrow Wight’s e-mail is. Hope this answers some of your questions, and I'm sure someone will point out if any of my info isn't completely correct.

[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: Thingol ]