**Question about hobbits' unfamiliarity**

[Rhudladion]

Consider this:
The Shire is positioned very near a major crossroads (The Greenway & The East Road). Not far from that point, Bree exists, which is populated by both men and hobbits. There seems to be much evidence of traffic throughout all these areas by many of the peoples of ME.
Sooooo...why, throughout the LOTR, do certain characters of different races react with amazement upon seeing a hobbit for the first time? They say things like, "I've heard about your kind in legend", or they are amazed at their size. This does not make much sense to my friend and I, because it seems that with the traffic and all, the hobbits would be more prevailent in the conversations of men, dwarves, elves, wizards, etc. Why is everyone amazed that they actually exist? It's not like they live on an island in the Sea.

Anyone have any ideas???

[Fenrir]

The men that react with amazement are the ones of Rohan and Gondor on the opposite side of the Misty Mountains to the Shire. It was many years before the Lord of the Rings took place when it was safe to travel long distances outside the realms of Gondor and Rohan. The realm of Arnor in the West had fallen and to follow the Great East Road would, I think, take you through Dunland, not to mention the raiding parties of orcs from the Misty Mountains. Combine with this the fact that even when Arnor did exist correspondence with Gondor wasn't exactly common. The hobbits maintain that they sent archers to the Battle of Fornost, at which Earnur and the army of Gondor were present. If the hobbits reached Fornost which is doubtful considering their peace-loving nature, it is debatable if they would reach the battle in time, instead starving to death in the wilderness. So, you see, even if long ago the peoples of the East knew of their existence the stories of hobbits have faded to fire-side tales of a child-like people in far off lands.

[ January 11, 2002: Message edited by: Fenrir ]

[ January 11, 2002: Message edited by: Fenrir ]

[Rhudladion]

I hear what you are saying. But what about the fact that after the Battle of Five Armies, the men of Laketown, the Dwarves, and the Elves of Mirkwood all knew of the Hobbits? Did none of these peoples via the story of that battle, not to mention the trips Bilbo made and the Dwarf and Elf visits to the Shire, tell stories to others they were in contact with? That is to say, were none of the dwellers of the city of Dale friends with people in Gondor or Rohan? Weren't some of the Dwarves of Moria travelling through the lands of Rohan in the North? And in virtue of these last questions, could these peoples not have discussed Hobbits and the Battle of Five Armies, in which Bilbo "fought"?

[Tirinor]

I have often wondered about that myself. there they sit smack dab at the crossroads, dwarves constantly travelling from the blue mountains to the lonely mountain and back, elves passing through, although mostly westward, southerners engaged in long leaf trade at the instruction of saruman: even if those from Rohan and Gondor hadn't personally seen a hobbit, it seems as if they would have plenty of opportunities to hear more about them from those who had. I can understand their obscurity, but it is hard to believe the extent of their obscurity, considering there central location in the lands of the north, coupled with the traffic of dwarves, elves, and men.
If the Shire was north of the road towards Fornost, or if it was situated just south of the far downs, I would have less trouble believing their annonymity, but at the crossroads! not to mention the road that cuts around the south and crosses the sarn ford.

Perhaps my imagination has been warped by today's globalized perspective, where I can see austalian aboriginees on PBS and talk to people from Russia and Sweden from my computer.

[Cirdan the Shipwright]

Interesting points. Let me see if I can make some sense of this.

First, and most important, one of Tolkien's major running themes is that most good nations and protagonists tend to live isolated from one another - possibly one of the reasons they got their asses kicked so much. This is one of the reasons why the Palantiri are so important, especially to men.

Elves - The elves of the Gray Havens and Rivendell would all certainly know of hobbits, but historically took great pains to avoid them. It was therefore a rarity for elven-hobbit interaction. Galadriel and many of the elves of Lorien would certainly know about hobbits as well, but had never seen one until Frodo & Co. arrived. As for the elves of Mirkwood, who were isolated even from other elven nations, probably only heard of hobbits for the first time when Bilbo appeared to Thranduil with the Arkenstone - not much time to spread the news even if they did keep in touch with the south!

Dwarves - At the time of the WR, the dwarves actually seem to be the most well travelled of the races, constantly going back and forth between the Blue Mountains and Erebor. As a result they tended to be less baffled by the Hobbits.

Ents - They basically kept to themselves. Even Galadriel seems to have forgotten about them. Their only interaction seems to have been with the wizards. Gandalf probably never brought it up in conversation.

Men - This is probably the most difficult point. The men of Arnor (and later the Dunedain of the north) certainly knew about and interacted with Hobbits regularly. But for some reason, even at their height, Arnor and Gondor interracted relatively infrequently, and almost not at all by the time of the War against Angmar. Furthermore, the Hobbits didn't even begin to arrive until around this time. Once Arnor was destroyed, Gondor basically had no contact with the north and the Hobbits became a legend in the south. Rohan, similarly, had no contact with the north once they departed.

If this still isn't convincing, consider Earth's history. How many ethnic groups, well known to each other in ancient times, became mutual legends during Earth's dark ages? Romans regularly traded with the both India and China, both by land and by sea. By the 6th century many in the west no longer believed these lands existed, and they were not visited again for many centuries.

Just some thoughts.

- Cirdan / Maglor68

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

Interesting points, especially about the "legend" of China and India.

Crossroads are one thing when travel is easy and roads are clear, but think how much trouble Boromir had just getting to Imladris. Not as far as the Shire, and he a great warrior and adventurer.

I think Tolkien really has it down when it comes to what it's like having to walk or ride horses everywhere, being subject to the elements (and the cold and the bugs and having carry all your food..erg). And the distances travelled are realistic. It takes half a day to go just five-six miles, and little rivers or some rain becomes a major obstacle. Once I started backpacking I developed a real appreciation for just how JRRT understood the outdoors. I walked up a mountain, crossed a trickle on the way up. Stayed a few days. It rained. On the way back discovered that "trickle" was a waterfall and I was cut off!

In a car with good roads, even dirt, the distance was a 10-minute trip.

[Elrian]

It says in the Silmarillion that they had been held of small account, and that neither Sauron or the Wise in their councils gave thought to them.