Death of Saruman Confirmed? **SPOILERS** - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

peonydeepdelver · 07-07-2003, 10:32 AM

I was browsing around and came across this mini-article with Ian McKellan that basically confirms that Saruman will indeed fall from a height and "come to a sticky end", as Ian McKellan puts it. You can read it and weep <A HREF="http://www.killermovies.com/l/lotrthereturnoftheking/articles/3037.html" TARGET=_blank>here</A>. I just hope Wormtongue stabs him first...

Legolas · 07-07-2003, 11:25 AM

There's been a picture floating around for quite sometime (even before The Two Towers was released) of Saruman lying chest up with a large spike (from a mill or something?) going all the way through his abdomen.

Horse-Maiden of the Shire · 07-07-2003, 11:50 AM

I've seen that picture, Legolas. And Saruman was supposed to die at the end of Towers?!? Ooh, PJ would have gotten SO many death threats...

peonydeepdelver · 07-07-2003, 12:17 PM

Yeah, I saw that picture too, but when I saw it, everyone was sure that it was just to throw us off. I think that Ian McKellan has basically confirmed how Saruman will die in ROTK, unless of course PJ is paying him double to throw us off again.

dancing spawn of ungoliant · 07-07-2003, 01:24 PM

i heard that they shot a few different deaths for saruman, but if they want to use the "sticky wheel"-one, well fine. i just hope that they do it stylishly.

Beren87 · 07-07-2003, 02:00 PM

I see wormtongue pushing Saruman off a very large something, onto a spikey..something.-Beren, the neighborhood seer.

Theoric Windcaller · 07-07-2003, 03:32 PM

**SPOILER****MAJOR SPOILER****SERIOUSLY** I have heard from some sources that the last installment (TRotK) will not include the chapter, "The Scourging of the Shire."

The Only Real Estel · 07-07-2003, 03:56 PM

The Scouring of the Shire will not be included. Wormtonuge will slit Saruman's throat on top of Orthanc ( or inside of Isengard? ); then throw him of the top of the tower ( or out of a window? ). That much is confirmed. The spikey wheel throw the abdomen thing has only about a 30-70 chance of having made the final cut, since lots of LOTR fans already had seen leaked pics of it for quite some time now...still, don't count it out.

peonydeepdelver · 07-07-2003, 04:25 PM

All I have to say is that if it comes from Ian McKellan's mouth, then it's the truth. Too bad about the Scouring, that was like THE greatest part! But this scene (if he ends up falling onto the spikes) will pay homage to Lee's role as Dracula.

Roccotari Eldandil · 07-08-2003, 07:37 PM

Grrrr!!! Oh well, I hope they at least have the part where his spirit rises up and looks west and gets blown away. That was pretty awesome when I read it (the 2nd time, after reading Silm and understanding all about the Istari). If they don't put that in there I'll be kind of annoyed (not majorly "Kill PJ, this movie sucks, but still ticked off).

The Only Real Estel · 07-08-2003, 08:42 PM

Well put.

Silmiel of Imladris · 07-08-2003, 09:13 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> And Saruman was supposed to die at the end of Towers?!? Ooh, PJ would have gotten SO many death threats... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> One of them would have been from me that's for sure. I don't have a clue why PJ is going about things as he is. The only logical explanation for not putting the Scouring of the Shire in that I can think of is that PJ is planning to do more with the apendixes. (Aragorn's and Arwen's death, Legolas and Gimli crossing the sea, Sam and Rosey's huge litter of little hobbits, ect...)

Finwe · 07-11-2003, 09:55 AM

Actually, the reason he's making so many changes is that if they stuck with the books, they would have a 3+ hour movie. I don't think the non-Tolkien audience would sit through that, and that is mainly who the movie is being made for. Unfortunately, we are the minority.

Olorin · 07-11-2003, 12:07 PM

This agitates me. I was really p*ssed off/dissapointed with all the changes in TTT and now this! Grr... *Smoke comes out of my ears* I hope PJ doesn't change too much else.I say, okay, let them leave out some parts (for instance, the beginning of FotR,) but atleast get the parts that do go in right!

The Only Real Estel · 07-15-2003, 01:40 PM

And quit adding stuff that doesn't fit well: #1-Farimir being crooked #2-The entire Osgiliath business #3-Aragorn remembering he & Arwen's talk back in Rivendell #4-Aragorn's cliff-falling 'accident' #5-Theoden becoming a lesser version of Denethor (although it fit better than the above) #6-Replacing Erkenbrand w/ Eomer, so we can't see Eomer at Helm's Deep in action The warg seen was added, but it fit right in to the movie, so it was fine.

Finwe · 07-15-2003, 02:36 PM

Guys, instead of complaining, why not realize that all these changes make the movie better? I mean, granted Faramir isn't supposed to be an *** , but wasn't that little twist exciting? Didn't it add to the drama? That was what PJ wanted. I'm sorry to disillusion most of you, but those changes were implemented for a reason, and whining about them won't help a thing. They'll just ruin the movies for us. So for Eru's sake, stop whining!!!!

The Only Real Estel · 07-15-2003, 05:49 PM

It added a little more drama, but if you put Shelob in there instead, THAT is what would add whatever you can possibly think of to the movie. Also, these things are not always for the better. PJ will be squashed for time now in RotK.

Meneltarmacil · 07-15-2003, 06:01 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>PJ will be squashed for time now in RotK.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> He'll make up for it by not filming the Scouring of the Shire.

The Only Real Estel · 07-15-2003, 08:22 PM

Yeah, but that doesn't make me feel much better ( or other fans )! Anyhoo, my point was: He still has to get in Shelob, Minas Morgul, & the Wizard Confrontation; & I'd rather've had him leave out a few of his own ammendments, & get the important stuff IN. Instead of trying to figure out what he can leave OUT.

Meneltarmacil · 07-15-2003, 08:27 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Yeah, but that doesn't make me feel much better ( or other fans )!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Me too, but what can we do about it? (by the way, didn't you notice my "mad" icon in the last post? That shows that I DIDN'T like the fact.)

The Only Real Estel · 07-15-2003, 08:28 PM

Yes I did. I was showing that I was unhappy about it too.

07-07-2003, 03:32 PM	#7
Theoric Windcaller Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Following where the wind takes me... Posts: 68	SPOILER<P>MAJOR SPOILER<P>SERIOUSLY<P><BR>I have heard from some sources that the last installment (TRotK) will not include the chapter, "The Scourging of the Shire." __________________ Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens... -The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers: Book 2, Chapter 3)

07-07-2003, 04:25 PM	#9
peonydeepdelver Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Alas, I hail from Massachusetts Posts: 256	All I have to say is that if it comes from Ian McKellan's mouth, then it's the truth. Too bad about the Scouring, that was like THE greatest part! But this scene (if he ends up falling onto the spikes) will pay homage to Lee's role as Dracula. __________________ "Nazgul, Nazgul! You speak of what is deep beyond the reach of your muddy dreams, Ugluk! Nazgul! Ah! All that they make out! One day you'll wish that you had not said that. Ape! You ought to know that they're the apple of the Great Eye." ~Grishnakh

07-08-2003, 07:37 PM	#10
Roccotari Eldandil Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: the stables of Lorien Posts: 79	Grrrr!!! Oh well, I hope they at least have the part where his spirit rises up and looks west and gets blown away. That was pretty awesome when I read it (the 2nd time, after reading Silm and understanding all about the Istari). If they don't put that in there I'll be kind of annoyed (not majorly "Kill PJ, this movie sucks, but still ticked off). __________________ "Come, come!" he shouted, swinging his axe. "Since Gandalf's head is now sacred, let us find one that is right to cleave!" -Gimli, after hearing Galadriel's message to him in TTT

07-08-2003, 09:13 PM	#12
Silmiel of Imladris Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Looking into a crystal ball- still see nothing Posts: 395	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> And Saruman was supposed to die at the end of Towers?!? Ooh, PJ would have gotten SO many death threats... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>One of them would have been from me that's for sure. I don't have a clue why PJ is going about things as he is. The only logical explanation for not putting the Scouring of the Shire in that I can think of is that PJ is planning to do more with the apendixes. (Aragorn's and Arwen's death, Legolas and Gimli crossing the sea, Sam and Rosey's huge litter of little hobbits, ect...) __________________ Legolas 20 ales later: I feel something, a slight tingling in my fingers. I think it's affecting me. Figwit on his name: Are you suggesting that I have the wit of a fig?

07-11-2003, 09:55 AM	#13
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	Actually, the reason he's making so many changes is that if they stuck with the books, they would have a 3+ hour movie. I don't think the non-Tolkien audience would sit through that, and that is mainly who the movie is being made for. Unfortunately, we are the minority. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

07-07-2003, 10:32 AM	#1
peonydeepdelver Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Alas, I hail from Massachusetts Posts: 256	Death of Saruman Confirmed? SPOILERS I was browsing around and came across this mini-article with Ian McKellan that basically confirms that Saruman will indeed fall from a height and "come to a sticky end", as Ian McKellan puts it. You can read it and weep <A HREF="http://www.killermovies.com/l/lotrthereturnoftheking/articles/3037.html" TARGET=_blank>here</A>. I just hope Wormtongue stabs him first... __________________ "Nazgul, Nazgul! You speak of what is deep beyond the reach of your muddy dreams, Ugluk! Nazgul! Ah! All that they make out! One day you'll wish that you had not said that. Ape! You ought to know that they're the apple of the Great Eye." ~Grishnakh

07-07-2003, 11:25 AM	#2
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	There's been a picture floating around for quite sometime (even before The Two Towers was released) of Saruman lying chest up with a large spike (from a mill or something?) going all the way through his abdomen. __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

07-07-2003, 11:50 AM	#3
Horse-Maiden of the Shire Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Chillaxin' with Glorfindel-441 miles on the RtR Posts: 1,197	I've seen that picture, Legolas. And Saruman was supposed to die at the end of Towers?!? Ooh, PJ would have gotten SO many death threats... __________________ "There's a big...machine in the sky...some kind of electric snake...coming straight at us." "Shoot it," said my attorney. "Not yet...I want to study its habits."

07-07-2003, 12:17 PM	#4
peonydeepdelver Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Alas, I hail from Massachusetts Posts: 256	Yeah, I saw that picture too, but when I saw it, everyone was sure that it was just to throw us off. I think that Ian McKellan has basically confirmed how Saruman will die in ROTK, unless of course PJ is paying him double to throw us off again. __________________ "Nazgul, Nazgul! You speak of what is deep beyond the reach of your muddy dreams, Ugluk! Nazgul! Ah! All that they make out! One day you'll wish that you had not said that. Ape! You ought to know that they're the apple of the Great Eye." ~Grishnakh

07-07-2003, 01:24 PM	#5
dancing spawn of ungoliant Mischievous Candle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: So near to Russia, so far from Japan, quite a long way from Cairo, lots of miles from Vietnam. Posts: 1,234	i heard that they shot a few different deaths for saruman, but if they want to use the "sticky wheel"-one, well fine. i just hope that they do it stylishly. __________________ Fenris Wolf

07-07-2003, 02:00 PM	#6
Beren87 Master of the Secret Fire Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Between fire and ice, death and life Posts: 2,241	I see wormtongue pushing Saruman off a very large something, onto a spikey..something.<P>-Beren, the neighborhood seer.

07-07-2003, 03:56 PM	#8
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	The Scouring of the Shire will not be included. Wormtonuge will slit Saruman's throat on top of Orthanc ( or inside of Isengard? ); then throw him of the top of the tower ( or out of a window? ). That much is confirmed. The spikey wheel throw the abdomen thing has only about a 30-70 chance of having made the final cut, since lots of LOTR fans already had seen leaked pics of it for quite some time now...still, don't count it out.

07-08-2003, 08:42 PM	#11
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	Well put.

07-11-2003, 12:07 PM	#14
Olorin Wight Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Where the sun sails and the moon walks. Posts: 155	This agitates me. I was really pssed off/dissapointed with all the changes in TTT and now this! Grr... Smoke comes out of my ears* I hope PJ doesn't change too much else.<P>I say, okay, let them leave out some parts (for instance, the beginning of FotR,) but atleast get the parts that do go in right! __________________ Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then don't be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.

07-15-2003, 01:40 PM	#15
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	And quit adding stuff that doesn't fit well:<BR>#1-Farimir being crooked<BR>#2-The entire Osgiliath business<BR>#3-Aragorn remembering he & Arwen's talk back in Rivendell<BR>#4-Aragorn's cliff-falling 'accident'<BR>#5-Theoden becoming a lesser version of Denethor (although it fit better than the above)<BR>#6-Replacing Erkenbrand w/ Eomer, so we can't see Eomer at Helm's Deep in action<BR> The warg seen was added, but it fit right in to the movie, so it was fine.

07-15-2003, 02:36 PM	#16
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	Guys, instead of complaining, why not realize that all these changes make the movie better? I mean, granted Faramir isn't supposed to be an *** , but wasn't that little twist exciting? Didn't it add to the drama? That was what PJ wanted. I'm sorry to disillusion most of you, but those changes were implemented for a reason, and whining about them won't help a thing. They'll just ruin the movies for us. So for Eru's sake, stop whining!!!! __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

07-15-2003, 05:49 PM	#17
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	It added a little more drama, but if you put Shelob in there instead, THAT is what would add whatever you can possibly think of to the movie. Also, these things are not always for the better. PJ will be squashed for time now in RotK.

07-15-2003, 06:01 PM	#18
Meneltarmacil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The bottom of the ocean, discussing philosophy with a giant squid Posts: 2,254	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>PJ will be squashed for time now in RotK.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>He'll make up for it by not filming the Scouring of the Shire. __________________ I ♣ baby seals.

07-15-2003, 08:22 PM	#19
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	Yeah, but that doesn't make me feel much better ( or other fans )! Anyhoo, my point was: He still has to get in Shelob, Minas Morgul, & the Wizard Confrontation; & I'd rather've had him leave out a few of his own ammendments, & get the important stuff IN. Instead of trying to figure out what he can leave OUT.

07-15-2003, 08:27 PM	#20
Meneltarmacil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The bottom of the ocean, discussing philosophy with a giant squid Posts: 2,254	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Yeah, but that doesn't make me feel much better ( or other fans )!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Me too, but what can we do about it? (by the way, didn't you notice my "mad" icon in the last post? That shows that I DIDN'T like the fact.) __________________ I ♣ baby seals.

07-15-2003, 08:28 PM	#21
The Only Real Estel Raffish Rapscallion Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Far from the 'Downs, it seems :-( Posts: 2,835	Yes I did. I was showing that I was unhappy about it too.