Dwarvish runes in Mazarbul - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

the guy who be short · 05-29-2003, 04:31 AM

Hail and harkI've noticed that in the Chamber of Mazarbul, they use proper dwarvish runes in the book of Mazarbul. I paused my video and deciphered these (I can readrunes. go me!) but it was quite different from what Gandalf said. There was nothing about a shadow in there.Heres what it said:We cannot get out. we cannot get out. they have taken the bridge and second hall. -rar and Looni and Nali [i cant read the names properly, they are larger and strange ] fell there bravely, while the rest retreated to Mazarbul. we still hold the chamber but hope is fading now. Oins party went and Dois [not sure bout names again] but today only we returned. The pool is up to the wall on Westgate. the watcher in the water took Oin. We cannot get out, the end comes soon. We hear drums, drums in the deep. Iand it ends there. nothing about a shadow! any thoughts? by the way, how does it go in the book, i dont own FotR? is it the same as above? if so, what are the peoples names?

HCIsland · 05-29-2003, 10:40 AM

That sounds much closer to the book actually.The difference is easy to explain. The book would have been made in the props department long before the scene was shot. I know they hired a calligrapher who's job it was to do all the maps, books, etc. He likely based what he wrote mostly on the book. Gandalf's lines wouldn't be enough to fill the couple of pages needed. In the meantime the scripts were being constantly rewritten, often right up to the day of shooting (listen to the director's and writer's commentary on the special edition DVD), hence they would be different.The fact that they went through the care of putting actual dwarf runes on the pages at all, and by the way on the walls too, is a testiment to their dedication.H.C.

the guy who be short · 05-30-2003, 03:51 AM

I saw the runes on the wall. anybody deciphered them?

Tinuviel the Nightingale · 05-30-2003, 07:05 AM

I don't have any answers, but the name Looni amuses me for some reason. Reminds me of crazy. Hey! Maybe there was a Crazy the dwarf!

HCIsland · 05-30-2003, 10:59 AM

There is a story on one of the commentaries on the special edition Rotk that talks of the dwarf runes that's kind of funny.I hope I have this right.After they completed the set they invited some Tolkien expert to come see the runes as they were extremely proud of them. Apparently they talk of much of the history of Moria. Anyway, soon after arriving the expert storms out of the set very angry and saying they should be ashamed of making such a mockery of this.It turns out that the guy couldn't read the runes at all and his reaction was caused by a carpenter or someone who joked, "and over there it says ... (I can't remember)." It took them quite a while to sort out the mix up.If someone can fill in the spaces left by my gap filled memory it would be appreciated. It's on the tech/props/costume commentary. Maybe I'll give it another listen tonight.H.C.

the guy who be short · 05-30-2003, 11:58 AM

I told you I wasnt very sure about the names, especially the first letter of each. but im sure the 1st name is Frar now. (i couldnt make out the letter before). They also changed the runes. They made a new rune for the word "is" and another for "the".

Frodo2968thewhite · 05-30-2003, 12:32 PM

It says:"We cannot get out. We cannot get out. They have taken the bridge & second hall. Fraar & Loni & Nali fell there bravely while the rest retreated to Marzabul. We still hold the chamber, but hope is fading now. Oin's party went 5 days ago, but today only 4 returned. the pool is up to the wall at westgate. the watcher in the water took Oin. we cannot get out. the end comes soon. we hear drums in the deep." "THEY ARE COMING"

Frodo2968thewhite · 05-30-2003, 12:55 PM

The runes on the walls say: "Great chamber of the Longbeards of Khazad-Dum, Lord Durin built it. Behold Khazad-Dum, realm of Durin the Deathless. Behold Khazad-Dum by Azanulbizar, realm of Durin's sons Durin III lord of Khazad-Dum. Durin slain by Durin's Bane. and Nain, Durin's son, Durin's bane also slew him. Thror, heir of Dain; orcs slew him; Azog cut off his head. Frerin, Thrain's son, slain in the battle of Azanulbizar, on the shores on Kheled-Zaram, and Fundin slain. The Great battle of Gundabad and Gladden; remember the dead. The mines of Barazinbar The Battle of Azanulbizar The House of Durin" There is also a huge wall that has one big (yet confusing) inscription:"lor nogrodul & .... el watch tower established at highest peak nta zirakzigilul with star from thirtieth sall second age five hundred of the of the fol fathoms gold smelter built built the estblishment moriaul below below return for silver & elves trade & the dimril sunk to fourty kheled Zaramul & thuz great gate durinul ened luin settle in the five hu one thousand & twenty news of fall smelt forses sauronul army gates to moria t mo service of lorien elves trade .... belegost being second level shaft sunk to fourt establish .... seventy two great gate .... with sta ....five hu.n... forty of..............o..s... gold smelter kheled zara..............ment moria. ......." I told you it was confusing!If anyone wants inscriptions in Westron, or the item's native tongue, dont hesitate to send me a private message! I know them all!

the guy who be short · 05-30-2003, 03:04 PM

So the only thing they changed was this "Doi" person. Told you i was confused bout the names!

the guy who be short · 05-30-2003, 03:07 PM

Wait, i think i got the runes at that bit mixed up. the rune for "5" looks like the rune for "&". And it looked like is had the word a-o but i couldnt make out the middle letter! Ah well, i guess im not that great a translator!

Lindril Arvilya · 06-01-2003, 07:31 PM

Hey, far better than me! I got to see one of the sample walls in the exhibits (and touch it!) and I was just like, wow, that sure looks authentic.Lindril(now where's that blond smilie)Arvilya

05-29-2003, 04:31 AM	#1
the guy who be short Shadowed Prince Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Thulcandra Posts: 2,343	Dwarvish runes in Mazarbul Hail and hark<P>I've noticed that in the Chamber of Mazarbul, they use proper dwarvish runes in the book of Mazarbul. I paused my video and deciphered these (I can readrunes. go me!) but it was quite different from what Gandalf said. There was nothing about a shadow in there.<P>Heres what it said:<P>We cannot get out. we cannot get out. they have taken the bridge and second hall. -rar and Looni and Nali [i cant read the names properly, they are larger and strange ] fell there bravely, while the rest retreated to Mazarbul. we still hold the chamber but hope is fading now. Oins party went and Dois [not sure bout names again] but today only we returned. The pool is up to the wall on Westgate. the watcher in the water took Oin. We cannot get out, the end comes soon. We hear drums, drums in the deep. I<P>and it ends there. nothing about a shadow! any thoughts?<BR>by the way, how does it go in the book, i dont own FotR? is it the same as above? if so, what are the peoples names?

05-29-2003, 10:40 AM	#2
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	That sounds much closer to the book actually.<P>The difference is easy to explain. The book would have been made in the props department long before the scene was shot. I know they hired a calligrapher who's job it was to do all the maps, books, etc. He likely based what he wrote mostly on the book. Gandalf's lines wouldn't be enough to fill the couple of pages needed. <P>In the meantime the scripts were being constantly rewritten, often right up to the day of shooting (listen to the director's and writer's commentary on the special edition DVD), hence they would be different.<P>The fact that they went through the care of putting actual dwarf runes on the pages at all, and by the way on the walls too, is a testiment to their dedication.<P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

05-30-2003, 07:05 AM	#4
Tinuviel the Nightingale Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Splashing around in Galadriel's Mirror Posts: 299	I don't have any answers, but the name Looni amuses me for some reason. Reminds me of crazy. Hey! Maybe there was a Crazy the dwarf! __________________ I am no longer Saruman the White... I am Saruman THE BRINGER OF ALL THINGS FLUFFY AND SPECIAL! Join Legends of Middle Earth!

05-30-2003, 10:59 AM	#5
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	There is a story on one of the commentaries on the special edition Rotk that talks of the dwarf runes that's kind of funny.<P>I hope I have this right.<P>After they completed the set they invited some Tolkien expert to come see the runes as they were extremely proud of them. Apparently they talk of much of the history of Moria. Anyway, soon after arriving the expert storms out of the set very angry and saying they should be ashamed of making such a mockery of this.<P>It turns out that the guy couldn't read the runes at all and his reaction was caused by a carpenter or someone who joked, "and over there it says ... (I can't remember)." It took them quite a while to sort out the mix up.<P>If someone can fill in the spaces left by my gap filled memory it would be appreciated. It's on the tech/props/costume commentary. Maybe I'll give it another listen tonight.<P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

05-30-2003, 11:58 AM	#6
the guy who be short Shadowed Prince Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Thulcandra Posts: 2,343	I told you I wasnt very sure about the names, especially the first letter of each. but im sure the 1st name is Frar now. (i couldnt make out the letter before).<BR>They also changed the runes. They made a new rune for the word "is" and another for "the".

05-30-2003, 03:51 AM	#3
the guy who be short Shadowed Prince Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Thulcandra Posts: 2,343	I saw the runes on the wall. anybody deciphered them?

05-30-2003, 12:32 PM	#7
Frodo2968thewhite Haunting Spirit Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Shire Posts: 95	It says:<P>"We cannot get out. We cannot get out.<BR>They have taken the bridge & second hall.<BR>Fraar & Loni & Nali fell there<BR>bravely while the rest retreated to Marzabul.<BR>We still hold the chamber, but hope is fading now. Oin's party went 5 days ago, but today only 4 returned. the pool is up to the wall at westgate. the watcher in the water took Oin. we cannot get out. the end comes soon. we hear drums in the deep."<P> "THEY ARE COMING" __________________ INAGURAL GOLDEN RING MARATHON, OCTOBER 20, 2005!!! FRODO LIVES!!!!

05-30-2003, 12:55 PM	#8
Frodo2968thewhite Haunting Spirit Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Shire Posts: 95	The runes on the walls say:<P> "Great chamber of the Longbeards of Khazad-Dum, Lord Durin built it. <BR> Behold Khazad-Dum, realm of Durin the Deathless.<BR> Behold Khazad-Dum by Azanulbizar, realm of Durin's sons<BR> Durin III lord of Khazad-Dum.<BR> Durin slain by Durin's Bane. and Nain, Durin's son, Durin's bane also slew him.<BR> Thror, heir of Dain; orcs slew him; Azog cut off his head.<BR> Frerin, Thrain's son, slain in the battle of Azanulbizar, on the shores on Kheled-Zaram, and Fundin slain.<BR> The Great battle of Gundabad and Gladden; remember the dead. <BR> The mines of Barazinbar<BR> The Battle of Azanulbizar<BR> The House of Durin"<P><BR>There is also a huge wall that has one big (yet confusing) inscription:<P>"lor nogrodul & .... el watch tower established at highest peak nta zirakzigilul with star from thirtieth sall second age five hundred of the of the fol fathoms gold smelter built built the estblishment moriaul below below return for silver & elves trade<BR>& the dimril sunk to fourty kheled Zaramul & thuz great gate durinul ened luin settle in the five hu one thousand & twenty news of fall smelt forses sauronul army gates to moria t mo service of lorien elves trade .... belegost being second level shaft sunk to fourt establish .... seventy two great gate .... with sta ....five hu.n... forty of..............o..s... gold smelter kheled zara..............ment moria. ......."<P><BR>I told you it was confusing!<P>If anyone wants inscriptions in Westron, or the item's native tongue, dont hesitate to send me a private message! I know them all! __________________ INAGURAL GOLDEN RING MARATHON, OCTOBER 20, 2005!!! FRODO LIVES!!!!

05-30-2003, 03:04 PM	#9
the guy who be short Shadowed Prince Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Thulcandra Posts: 2,343	So the only thing they changed was this "Doi" person. Told you i was confused bout the names!

05-30-2003, 03:07 PM	#10
the guy who be short Shadowed Prince Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Thulcandra Posts: 2,343	Wait, i think i got the runes at that bit mixed up. the rune for "5" looks like the rune for "&". And it looked like is had the word a-o but i couldnt make out the middle letter! Ah well, i guess im not that great a translator!

06-01-2003, 07:31 PM	#11
Lindril Arvilya Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: In a box at the end of Harrison Ford's street, with a pair of binoculars Posts: 332	Hey, far better than me! I got to see one of the sample walls in the exhibits (and touch it!) and I was just like, wow, that sure looks authentic.<P>Lindril(now where's that blond smilie)Arvilya __________________ Neo, watch out! Trinity's going to steal your pants! Pants thief! Pants thief!