Lij's response.

[Eruwen]

read this....<P><I>Apparently Elijah Wood was asked about that silly interpetation of Frodo and Sam's relationship. Fortunately, Elijah replies quite sensibly on the matter. </I><P>Lord Of The Rings star Elijah Wood has hit out at claims Frodo Baggins and Sam Gamgee have a gay relationship in the JRR Tolkien novel - he thinks they are just good friends. But the actor - who is a huge fan of Tolkien's epic adventure - admits he sees how the mistake could be made. Wood says, "They have a very close relationship that sort of transcends friends. Those feelings are probably there and they probably exist. I wouldn't say that it has anything to do with homosexuality but it is certainly one possible interpretation of it. I don't think Frodo or Sam, in the way they are portrayed, either confirm or deny it. But I personally don't really see it from that perspective. I just see them as being completely tied to each other in a very personal and emotional way. Sam sort of tends the earth and comes from a very servile background, and he kind of dotes on Frodo, who helps and guides Sam. They compliment each other in terms of where they come from. That's how I see it anyway." <P>Interesting. huh?

[Manwe Sulimo]

And considering that Sam goes, gets married, and has 13 children....<P>LOL.

[Orual]

Good for 'Lij, but a little too vague, don't you think? I mean, I think it's sad that people can't imagine that two people who had been through fire and death together could become like brothers. Like I said in the "Love" thread, it's a story about loyalty and friendship, among other things, but a sort of friendship that we see so rarely today. A friendship that, as 'Lij said (and more power to him for this), "transcends friends." It's more than that. I can't find any words for it, which is probably why people misinterpret it. Oh well, we can't expect everybody to "get it," I guess, can we?<P>~*~Orual~*~<P>Edit: It's like Sam said, I guess! "He's like that, and sometimes it shines through, somehow..." That sort of thing that you just get or you don't. I'm still not making any sense. It's a good thing everybody here understands in the first place.<p>[ November 19, 2002: Message edited by: Orual ]

[Helkasir]

you can't even have good friends these days without some one thinking a sexual innuendo.

[Mintyztwin]

Yeah, Helaskir. My relationship with MY best friend is very like Frodo and Sam's. (I think anyway.) I would do ANYTHING for her, and I'm very protective of her. I think I would be Sam though. I would definatly be the one to burst through a door with no weapon, and yell, "Let 'er go, or I'll have you Longshanks!!" And then get skewered on the end of his sword!

[Diamond18]

Our society has such a selfish mindset that people figure Sam <I>must</I> want something from Frodo. Sam's love for Frodo is selfless...he does not expect anything in return. So to say that he has sexual fantasies about Frodo misses the whole point of his character. Selfless devotion. It would be equally erroneous to say that Sam follows Frodo loyaly because he wants Frodo to give him Bag-end, or that he's hoping to get his hands on the Ring eventually. It's along the same lines. Sam doesn't want Frodo's body or anything else...he wants to do whatever he can for Frodo. He'll be there for Frodo no matter what. Sam is really a very idealistic character, and not the type of person you see around much these days. (Not to say there aren't <I>any</I>, of course.)<P>I don't think a deep love always has to mean sex. Some people do, I guess, and those are the people that assume Sam wants to be Frodo's "lover".<P>As an aside, this is why when you have romances between characters, there's always a question that needs to be answered, "Do they really love each other, or is it lust?" The difference between carnal love and true love, I guess.<P>I think Elijah's response was what one would call tactful.<p>[ November 19, 2002: Message edited by: Diamond18 ]

[Mintyztwin]

I think you hit upon the core issue, Diamond. There are several kinds of love mentioned in the Bible, two of which are Eros and Agape. Eros refers to sexual "love" while Agape referes to brotherly love. Agape is selfless, and this is Sam's love for his master. "Love is not selfish, love is kind, love is patient, love does not envy . . . " to paraphrase a little!

[Birdland]

It's a sad fact that today's modern society is very, very, hung up on this issue in a very twisted, unhealthy way. The mere idea of one person touching another, let alone declaring love for another person, is fraught with sexual overtones and questions of ulterior motives, much more than it was in Tolkien' earlier, innocent and "ignorant" days. <P>In the Actor's Commentary version of the film they even have to address the "issue". Apparently Sean and Elijah had to be convinced that it was OK for Sam to hold Frodo's hand when he finds that he is awake and alive in Rivendell. The actors were worried that it might be interpreted as "gay", (in the most negative, insultive sense.)<P>All I can say to the young people out there who have been <I>indoctrinated</I> into thinking that touching someone or saying "I love you" to a friend implies some sexual motivation: I hope if you are ever faced with the loss of that friend, you would not regret the decision.<P>OK, lecture over. Carry on.

[Pookabunny]

Oftentimes, people are just "friends" with each other because they want something from each other. When you really break it down, that's the benefit of all relationships. People have needs and are fulfilled through others - by recieving love, physical contact, validation, esteem, energy, etc. That's the premise of MOST relationships.<P>HOWEVER, there are cases where the intentions are pure and true - like ties with family, finding your true love, and finding our TRUE FRIENDS. In Sam and Frodo's case, their friendship is TRUE. That's why they'll do anything for each other.<P>Society is obsessed with drama and the latest rave. So naturally, society will leap to the conclusion that Sam and Frodo's relationship has some sexual connotation. Society can't handle the kind of relationship that Frodo and Sam have because they don't understand it. They don't HAVE that in their lives. And because they don't have it and/or understand it, they naturally have to condescend it.<P>Tolkien hardly mentions the details of the heterosexual relationships in LOTR, so why in the world would he go so far out of his way to creat a homosexual relationship. PLUS the man was a devout Christian writing in the mid 20th century, so it would be UNHEARD of to have homosexual main characters. I totally disbelieve ANYONE who claims Frodo and Sam's relationship to be any other than that of kinsmen. <P>Man there'd be substantially less drama in the world if people really and truly understood what love REALLY is.

[Arwen Melian]

I know ..you know what's even worse? How these days people think there is no such thing as a male/female love relationship without sexuality...I mean if I were to say I love you to a guy friend, people automatically think that I am the girlfriend( I'm refering to that friend I was talking about in another thread.)It's called unconditional love...and it's very rare. I can relate to Sam because I have unconditional love for a couple of my friends(even though one of them happens to hate LOTR..as some of you know.) What ever happened to pure friendships?That's why I admire Samwise.

[Rose Cotton]

You know what it is? It's bad media. Movies that suggest the kind of sextual relationships that ruin our society. So many movies poison peoples minds. <P>So now we have a movie that comes from a book in which on of it's main themes is true friendship and love. It's one of the very few movies that deals with pure love but since it's been put in a society that has already been affected by the wrong idea of love people imediatly want to bring it down to that level.<P> Unfortuatly for them. Tolkien can never be brought down! <BR> Don't despair my friends. We know what true love is! <P>*hugs everyone* See. That was an example of unconditional love. I hugged all of you so you would feel better and I expect nothing in return.<BR> <p>[ November 20, 2002: Message edited by: Rose Cotton ]

[Arwen Melian]

Aww..I return that hug!

[WarBringer]

it somes to a point where a good friend is now forbidden in society-i have one. Its a cryin shame

[Mintyztwin]

True, 'tis pity, and pity 'tis, 'tis true. *sigh* To basically repeat what everyone already said, our society is obsessed with the sexual side of relationships. Most marriages are based on that aspect of the relationship, and sadly most marriages fail. <P>Love is all about giving with no expectaion of return! All love cares about is the well-being of the Beloved. Even if it cost's Love everything. <P>"Greater love has no man than this that he lay down his life for a friend." Which is what Samwise did. He left Rosie, the (comparative) safety of the Shire, and went with Frodo to Mordor, instead of Gondor. <P>I think [Feel free to contradict me if I'm wrong] Most of the other people were in the quest out of a sense of duty, or adenture. I think the only reason Sam went was for Frodo. (I'm NOT saying the other guys didn't like Frodo. They just weren't going only because of that.)<P>Love is not a give -take relationship. It's a give-give one.

[Orual]

Diamond, you hit the gold. That's exactly right. Points for eloquence and accuracy!<P>People can't understand Sam and Frodo's friendship because it's unlike them. Like it has been said, people today are selfish, in contrast to Sam's total selflessness. (And Frodo's, too: if he'd been thinking about himself before others, he'd never have taken the Ring.) They can't grasp the idea because they've never experienced it. I'm very blessed because I have, and I have a relationship much like Sam and Frodo's, although I never accompanied my friend to Mordor. (We've agreed that she's Frodo and I'm Sam, since those are our favorite characters anyway.) In a world where it's all about number one, people can't fathom Sam's unrelenting loyalty and unconditional faithfulness to Frodo. It's a tragedy, but it's an answer, at least.<P>~*~Orual~*~<P>(Edit: accurateness? It <I>is</I> late.)<p>[ November 20, 2002: Message edited by: Orual ]

[Diamond18]

Why thank you, I'm glad you agree! When I read "Lij's Response" I recalled a quote by either Sean Astin or Elijah Wood from that Fox special last year...I can't remember what the exact wording was, but the gist was that it was a friendship based on selflessness. And I thought, "That is so true." <p>[ November 20, 2002: Message edited by: Diamond18 ]

[Mintyztwin]

You guys are so right! "Amen! Preach it Sister!" I love saying that. The looks I recieve are so funny! <P>P.S. Only 35 more days till Christmas! Yay!!!

[Orual]

35 days till Christmas? Wowza...I need to go shopping...<P>But another important number is 28...28 days till TT!!<P>~*~Orual~*~

[Helkasir]

I told a friend about this, and he said to "Cut the heathen's throat out." (He's reffering to the person who said they were gay.)

[elanor_niphredil]

In my opinion, people that enterprate the relationship in this way are just, to put it plainly, sick and twisted. Thankfully, it comes with the title "Lotr fan" that we are above that. We know, they dont. Cool.

[dragoneyes]

I think these people, as I think has been mentioned before, have not experienced true love. The trouble with this love is that you don't always notice it's there until it's either put to the test or gone completely. If found this out when my mum died earlier this year, she would have done almost anything for me but I didn't appreciate this until she was gone.<P>People who are so shallow as to say that Sam and Frodo are gay have quite obviously not experienced, or known that they had experienced anything other than sexual love, therefore that is what they will recognise it as. I pity them.<P>Sorry I blabbed a bit, it touched a nerve.

[Eruwen]

Wow. When I posted that, I didn't think people would get that into it. Well, all I can say is, I'm a little disapointed in his response. He himself should know for a fact that Sam and Frodo are not gay. I don't know why he didn't just come out and say it. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I don't think Frodo or Sam, in the way they are portrayed, either confirm or deny it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>How could they not deny it? Their "relationship" to each other has nothing at all to do with homosexuality. Elijah, sorry. I get your point. I just don't see how it could be in any way questionable. <P>Oh, and Diamond, very good. I agree with you 100%.

[Diamond18]

Well, like I said before, I think Elijah was trying to be tactful. I don't pretend to know his mind, of course, but just by reading that I got the impression he was trying hard not to step on anyone else's opinions. It reads as if he's afraid of saying anything definite because if he said something like, "Of course Sam isn't gay, that's a ridiculous idea" people would accuse him of being homophobic.<P>Just my interpertation of the response, anyway.

[Mintyztwin]

Oh horrors. I might OFFEND someone? Sorry. I can understand why a high-profile person wouldn't want to offend people . . . but still . . . .<P>The path of least resistence usually is the most dangerous in the end . . . (You've heard of Tangle Trees?)