Our worst fears have come true: get ready to meet Arwen Warrior Princess!

[LePetitChoux]

I remember how before TTT we were all discussing the possible scenarios with Aragorn getting Andúril. We thought<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Arwen might bring it to him (but we thought, no, PJ wouldn't extend her THAT much)<BR><LI>He might have it already (intense analysis of screenshots proved the answer to be no)<BR><LI>I can't remember the rest, but please feel free to add points</UL><P>Well, the first appears to be true. And look, Arwen seems to be...in livery, suggesting...no, not...fighting?<P> <P>And here she is, clearly having just saved the world on her stolen horse, by overtaking Sam and Frodo, and casting the Rig into Oronduin herself...or not. But it doesn't look like she just sewed a banner. And wait, is that...no, it couldn't be, a DEAD ORC next to her? Or just a very old and dead Elrond? <P> <P>But I though that Éowyn was supposed to kill the orc...I'm sure you've seen that pic of her with blood on her hands, but none on her sword. Now, now. We can't have TWO heroines...and Éowyn got there first!<P>PJ, PJ. I had more faith in you. <P>I would like to finish with a song from Chicago:<BR><I>He had it coming,<BR>He had it coming,<BR>He only had himself to blame<BR>If you had been there,<BR>If you had seen it<BR>I betcha you would have done the same!</I><P>

[Meela]

*screams and runs*<P>i know they filmed some of Arwen at Helms Deep, but cant they just leave her out of it??? they must be on Arwen drugs or something. or shes killed peter jackson and taken over.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Those pictures are possibly test shots that were taken at some time. Since we won't know what's really in the film until it's shown, let's not get all tied up in knots over it, OK?!

[Lush]

Nobody panic. Do you know what assuming does?<P>Yeah, I thought you did.<P>

[Tar-Palantir]

I hope Arwen helps Eowyn fight the Nazgul, then they fight over who actually killed it and end up wrestling in the mud together. That would be great filmmaking.

[*Varda*]

Now, now, just be calm...like Estelyn says, it could just be a test shot. And remember how worked up everyone got about the possibility of Arwen being at Helm's Deep? They must have felt rather silly afterwards.

[Andephelien]

*AAAHHHHHHGGGG* Arwen, first the horse, now the sword????? Was Arwen even mentioned in the seccond book??<BR>---------------------------------------<P>"Arwen you thief, give me back my horse!" ~ Glorfindel

[Bill Ferny]

I think my computer or internet connection must be screwed up because I don’t see in those pictures any indication that Arwen is fighting, killing orcs, or bringing Andúril to Aragorn.<P>Edit: Please post the website from which you got those pictures.<p>[ March 01, 2003: Message edited by: Bill Ferny ]

[aragornreborn]

I was thinking that myself. All I see is Arwen and then Arwen a little dirty with a fuzzy background. I'm all for conspiracy theories, but is there any more info about this?

[Rose Cotton]

PJ is minding his own buisness when he feels a sword at his throut.<P>Liv Tyler: What's this? A director caught off his guard?<P>PJ: Liv. You're not supposed to be here anymore. Arwen has a very small part in the story.<P>Liv: We'll see about that. Since I have this sword with me you'll do what I say and expand my part.<P>PJ: Alright! Alright! You can have another love scene with Viggo.<P>Arwen: Hmm....No! I want to do some fighting!<P>Please don't get mad at me Liv Tyler fans. That was just for fun.

[Meela]

that was great and i can just see it happening!

[HCIsland]

I would like to join the voices asking people to calm down. I have a production book at home which interviews a number of the crew. Both the costume person and make-up people talked about how Arwen was originally written as a warrior princess, but shortly into production that was changed, necessitating drastic changes in costume and make-up on very short notice.<P>These pics are very likely (perhaps more than likely) to be early production shots.<P>H.C.<p>[ March 01, 2003: Message edited by: HCIsland ]

[Tar-Palantir]

Those pictures can be found at:<BR><A HREF="http://www.ninecompanions.net/galleries/rotkgalleries/allpics_gallery_p1.html" TARGET=_blank>ninecompanions</A><p>[ March 01, 2003: Message edited by: Tar-Palantir ]

[Arwen Imladris]

One thing guys, I remember reading somewhere that Arwen was supposed to be a warrior princess type of person, but as they made the movies, it slowly changed into one that was closer to the book. I wouldn't be too worried about Arwen, she seemed to calm down quiet a bit in TTT, don't freak out until you have too.

[Rynoah, the Overly-Happy]

Mass hysteria isn't a good thing.

[Lalaith]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.<BR>Arwen as warrior princess is actually quite cool and troubles me far less than Aragorn as DontWannabe King, Theoden as cantakerous bitter old git, Elrond as Nasty Dad, and Gimli as belching idiot.

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

Arwen Imladris- do you mean in the movies? Because she was not supposed to be in the books. She would probably have been able to fight, but not done so unless she needed to.

[Gorwingel]

I actually saw those pictures for the first time long ago, I don't think you have anything to worry about. Hopefully the people who are making the film realize that if they change it that much it will be a terrible mistake.

[dunadan_aragorn]

Eeep. Ew. Yuck. There. I'm done.

[Lush]

No, guys, I was thinking about this, and since none of us have anything better to do with our lives, so why don't we all <I>freak out</I>? <P>Let's set off a riot! Let's boycott Aerosmith! Let's get on "The O'Reilly Factor" and blame the feminists! Let's organize a sit-in in front of New Line's Headquarters (wherever those may be)! And let's watch **** Cheney pin the whole thing on Saddam in the ensuing pandemonium! <P>Hell no, we won't go! (To see RotK, that is, until Peter Jackson learns to <I>submit</I>).

[Inderjit Sanghera]

Ho hum...Well I really HOPE it doesn't make it into the final cuts. I believe PJ had something similar lined up for Arwen in FoTR, but Liv Tyler was against it?

[Lalaith]

Hehe. I can't believe that the first name of America's VP has been censored. Honestly.

[Arwen Imladris]

GaladrieloftheOlden: This <I>is</I> the movie forum is it not? Yes, in the <B>books</B> Arwen was definatly no warrior princess. That was more Eowyn's job. I think that if Arwen does turn into a warrior princess, she will be encrouching on Eowyn's role. I also think that if they were going to do that, they would have had her in there at helms deep by now. In other words, DON'T FREAK OUT.....Yet at least!

[harlindon]

Oh you guys stop freaking out!Don't Worry!<BR>Arwen won't be in th battles in ROTK. She will be there for Aragorns coranation. It is going to be a double wedding and coranation. Instead of her and the elves getting there like a month and a half later, they get there like just in time. That is what is going to happen. Soryy for the movie spolier but that is the latest lowdown.

[Enedhil]

Hush, now, calm down...<BR>*picks up toys and puts them back in pram*<P>I heard that they toyed with an idea or two with regards to Arwen, but threw them all out, and I've also heard it's Eowyn that kills Mr Naz. A film mag towards the end of last year had mini-spoliers for RotK.

[Lady_Báin]

ay ay *shakes head mornfully* arg irksome pj. i had a theory that he would portray her as being allpowerful, and just shy of casting the ring into the Crack of Doom. Well looks like she is going to surpass all our misgivings and fears <P>Next thing you know they will have <I>Arwen Lives</I> badges. alas, *sighs* Pj is going to Mordor in a handbasket.<p>[ March 10, 2003: Message edited by: Lady_Báin ]

[Scott]

Well, first off, there's nothing really wrong with mass chaos... the more chaos there is, the more order arises.<P>Just like with the other two movies everyone is going to hear the rumors and say that the movie is garbage, but we all know that as soon as the opening theme sings throughout the theatre and the openeing scene appears, all of that will disappear and we'll realise that everything will be all right.

[Rynoah, the Overly-Happy]

I wish you could've given me that assurance when I saw Faramir in TTT. No, really.

[ESTEN]

I can understand that all books change when they are made intomovies, but sometimes I think he extends her role to put more of a woman presence into the movie then there would be if he followed the book. I am not saying that this makes it wrong or right, but I cna understand it

[Mornie Alantie]

Does anybody think Arwen will be the one to take Narsil/Andruil to Aragorn. He has it in the third movie, I know that. I did see (actually in FOTR movie guide) a picture of Arwen with Galadriel In either Lorien or Rivendell, It looked like Lorien but had sunlight, Which doesn't mean it can't be Lorien. but whatever.

[HCIsland]

I think there is a very good chance of that. I don't think it will be the Dunedain because they have not been established in the films. If they suddenly showed up the average movie watcher would be asking, "who are these guys". I think that leaves Arwen as the leading candidate. Either that or a group of anonymous elves from Rivendell.<P>H.C.

[Lady_Báin]

I'm actually betting on the random elves from Rivendell, he seems to like those guys, and they are already established in the films as the random helper-outer guys (which is specifically what they aren't) hmmm, exept maybe they'll be from Mirkwood or somewhere else this time, who knows? we'll just have to wait and see what fast-ball pj's gonna throw.

[lindil]

"And remember how worked up everyone got about the possibility of Arwen being at Helm's Deep? They must have felt rather silly afterwards."<P><BR>well imo all that gettting worked up [ I signed a petition or 2] is prob a big factor in getting pj to back down.<P>Arwen as warrior princess is foolish and the less of it we see the better. I already saw enough with the 'flight to the ford' thank you. More than enough actually <P><BR>Scott said:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Just like with the other two movies everyone is going to hear the rumors and say that the movie is garbage, but we all know that as soon as the opening theme sings throughout the theatre and the openeing scene appears, all of that will disappear and we'll realise that everything will be all right.<P> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>When the wash of tens of millions of dollars of special effects, excellent sets and dazzling perfomances by a few characters have receded......and then we will refelct on what we saw [especially the two towers] and realize our fears were right it WAS garbage!<P>[or at least more garbage than anything calling itself LotR has a right to have.]

[Darkside]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>....it WAS garbage!<P>[or at least more garbage than anything calling itself LotR has a right to have.]<P> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Oh Lindil! I couldn't agree more!<BR>I see no added value in having Super Arwen plastered all willy-nilly throughout the movies. I am a woman and I still don't understand the idea that she needed to be "enhanced" for the women in the audience.<P> Grrr... "Here's your sword, Dear. I hope you don't mind that I used it to fight my way to you."<p>[ March 24, 2003: Message edited by: Darkside ]

[HCIsland]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I am a woman and I still don't understand the idea that she needed to be "enhanced" for the women in the audience. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>She had to be enhanced because they wanted to play up the romance between her and Aragorn, not because she is a women. I don't think political correctness is part of the equation after all, they have Eowyn.<P>They needed to give her stuff to do to make her one of the main characters and to keep her familiar to the audience so that she doesn't appear the trophy bride at the end.<P>H.C.

[Durelin]

All we need is a well placed orc with a pike. Mwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!<P>Now you are asking: Why did she post to say THAT?<P>Moderator Estelyn comes..."Out vile jelly!" she cries, and I have naught left but the cases! <P>Scared? Gooood. My plan to take over the world is unfolding! <P>I will retire to my cottage now.

[The Saucepan Man]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> When the wash of tens of millions of dollars of special effects, excellent sets and dazzling perfomances by a few characters have receded......and then we will refelct on what we saw [especially the two towers] and realize our fears were right it WAS garbage!<P>[or at least more garbage than anything calling itself LotR has a right to have.]<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I coudn't disagree more. I, for one, will never view these film <B>adaptations</B> as garbage. Not only do I consider them to be pretty good films in their own right, I will always be grateful to PJ and co for bringing ME to life in much the way that I have always imagined it. And the fact that they exist, and I enjoy them, does not impair my (separate and distinct) enjoyment of the books in any way. Not the greatest films ever made, no. And not facsimiles of the books, granted. But definately not garbage by a long way.

[Darkside]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> They needed to give her stuff to do to make her one of the main characters and to keep her familiar to the audience so that she doesn't appear the trophy bride at the end.<P> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>HC, I understand that point. I just don't think that she needed to turn into ARWEN Battle Mistress of Middle Earth. (use loud superhero voice) I think in the Fiasco at the Ford scene ( ) she replaced both Glorfindel <I>and</I> Frodo. That whole "come and claim him" nonsense took a very important scene away from Frodo and I don't think his chracter ever recovered from that.<BR> <BR>I am very grateful that she wasn't at Helm's Deep. I might have thrown something at the screen if she had been. But that sillines with the horse and Aragorn was so contrived! It just didn't do anything for the story. All they had to do was show Aragorn thinking about times shared between them. She didn't need to have a real part in TTT. And she certainly doesn't need to get all bucky again in RotK. <P>

[HCIsland]

And that's a valid argument. I was just making the point that her role needed to be expanded and for non-political reasons. People are free to think of other ways in which this could have been accomplished.<P>I found the scenes between her and Elrond likely one of the slowest and most awkward moments in Two Towers, so it's not like I'm an Arwen fan here. However, in my opinion, the chase to the Ford is so gorgeous that my response to it would be, "Glorfindel who? " and the shot when her and the nine wraiths draw swords is so spectacular I could frame it and hang it on my wall. That, along with the shot of Gandalf riding into Isengard and the Ring Wraiths gliding through the Prancing Pony, are among my favourite shots in the whole series to date. This has nothing to do with plot or character, it's pure aesthetics.<P>Hey, but that's just me.<P>H.C.

[Darkside]

And that is why beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder! <P>I am glad you found things to love, and it's always nice to post with someone of an opposing view that is nice and articulate! I hope RotK is what you hope it to be, Arwen and all.