How'd they make the hobbits and the dwarf shorter?

[aragornreborn]

This has probably been discussed before, but I searched and didn't find anything. My question is does anyone know how they made Merry, Pippin, Sam, Frodo, and Gimli so short? Especially since someone said the actor who plays Gimli is the tallest of the bunch.

Several different techniques. Scale doubles, forced scale(or something), big robot-like human-doubles, bluescreen etc. This subject is given much space at the extended DVD.

[Manwe Sulimo]

Of course, if you don't have the Extended DVD....<P>Each of the short characters had a double for the large, panning shots (e.g., the Fellowship running by the Elvish ruins in FotR). For special scenes like in Bag End, each actor (Ian McKellem and Elijah Wood/Ian Holm) was shot in a to-scale set (the hobbits in a regular-sized set, McKellem in a small set). Then the shots were digitally put together. Otherwise, they used blue-screen tech to insert actors into the foreground of a scene (Elijah Wood in Bag End "Nobody knows that it's here. Do they, Gandalf?). For some shots they also used perspective, like when Frodo and Gandalf are talking across a table. Elijah Wood is actually sitting two feet behind Ian McKellem, but it seems like they're next to each other. The same technique is used in Bree, Rivendell, and Lórien.

[Morai]

There is another I know of. In the extended version, the hobbits kneeled (walked on their knees) during the scene when they leave Rivendel.

[mollecon]

The ones where one actor is closer to the camera than the other (to make them appear different in size) is as far as I remember called false perspective - PJ's crew developed this old technique further during the shooting of LotR so that they could use it with a moving camera - before it could only work with a fixed one... As PJ says on the Ext DVD, they used any technique that seemed prober/effective in the particular shot.

[Faye Took]

Yep, they either kneeled, had scale doubles, or a blue screen.

[Tar-Palantir]

Aragornreborn, you should really try to rent or borrow a copy of the extended version to see all their techniques. Some of them are really amazing, like when Gandalf hands his hat and staff to Bilbo at Bag End, I love that shot. Many props in Bag End and elsewhere were built in two sizes also, mugs, utensils, room decor, the one ring, other clothing, doors, counters, wagonwheels and wagonposts, and on and on.

[Gorwingel]

It's actually called forced perspective, when I saw the extended DVD I was so surprised that some of the scenes in Bag End were done with Blue Screen, they were so amazing, I could not tell that they were done that way.<BR>My sister sometimes says that knowing all the secrets takes a little bit of the magic from the film, but I don't mind it at all.

[Birdland]

In the scenes where a larger person is carrying a hobbit (such as in the Moria scene), they shot the action with a short person stunt double, then digitally inserted the actors face. <P>It is truly amazing the techniques that P.J. used, 99% of which still work, even after you know just how he did it.

[Laialthriel]

I was completely amazed at how many little 'tricksy' techniques they used to make the size difference work. That would be incredibly hard to work with, I would think. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>My sister sometimes says that knowing all the secrets takes a little bit of the magic from the film, but I don't mind it at all. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I am not sure where I stand on that, myself. I love reading and watching all of the information I can find on this, but it does get a little nerve wracking when in the middle of watching the movie, my mind goes to the actors/hobbits sitting on their knees in Rivendell. <P>~*Laial

[HCIsland]

This section on the extended DVD is great. I too marvelled at how simple some of the techniques were.<P>For example, the shot where Frodo jumps into Gandalf's arms at the beginning of the film was extremely important because it was the first time they showed the size difference between the characters. I remember thinking, "how did they do that?" It's painfully simple.<P>First shot: Elijah Wood jumping into a seven foot plus man dressed like Gandalf. You only see Gandalf from the side and back.<BR>Next shot: Close up of Ian McKellen hugging a four foot man dressed as Frodo.<BR>Next shot: Close up of Elijah hugging seven foot man.<P>Because the shots fly by so fast, you would never notice the tricks and somehow it is the simple tricks like that, that are the most convincing.<P>H.C.

[aragornreborn]

Thanks everybody! I think it's really cool, but then again, I am easily amused... I finally got the special edition DVD, but it's gonna take me forever to go through all that material. I swear there must be at least 20 hours worth of stuf on it! But, back to the subject, it must be hard acting when the person you're "talking" with isn't even there!

[The Saucepan Man]

The only time that it didn't really work was when the Fellowship is first formed in Rivendell and you get the group shot. The hobbits and Gimli look out of scale to the human characters, particularly their heads. I always imagine hobbits and dwarves as having human-sized heads on smaller bodies. <P>But that would have been a difficult one to get right.

[HCIsland]

I think what may have been harder then talking to someone who wasn't there was talking several feet behind someone, which is what they had to do in the Forced Perspective shots.<P>If you have the Special Edition DVD, go straight to the last disk, under Visual Effects there's chapter called Scale. That is where they talk about this. It's probably just 15 or 20 minutes long but very interesting.

[mollecon]

I think I saw someplace there's actually 27 hours on the ext DVD

[Laialthriel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>The only time that it didn't really work was when the Fellowship is first formed in Rivendell and you get the group shot. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That is the only spot I noticed as well. Which greatly impressed me. That's pretty good to only have one spot like that in a movie where there are so many instances to use visual tricks. I applaud the special effects group and camera people responsible for it all.<P>I am also impressed by the actors' abilities to work with blue screen, and also in the instance when Wood and McKellen are in Bag End and have to stand some distance away from each other to create the small and large effect. *can't remember the name for it* This is an age where the actors get to use their imaginations quite a bit more.<p>[ January 23, 2003: Message edited by: Laialthriel ]