Killing the Balrog..... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Mandos · 01-03-2003, 12:43 PM

In TTT, when Gandalf and the Balrog is fighting on Zirak-zigil, Gandalf uses his sword to "hold" lightining in it and stabs the Balrog, killing him. How can this lightining kill a powerful servant of Morgoth?

eleanor_niphredil · 01-03-2003, 03:44 PM

Beats me. Magic Lightning? Powers from the heavens? Plain good luck?

pherostien · 01-03-2003, 04:34 PM

I thought the Balrog was shadow and flame. Why is the balrog a solid form?

Mandos · 01-03-2003, 04:39 PM

it seems that the balrog is semi-spirit, semi-physical. any other ideas as to what it is?

Manwe Sulimo · 01-03-2003, 04:42 PM

Do you really need this in two forums?Easy answer to that question, though; the Balrogs were killed by weapons; Gothmog and the Balrog that Glorfindel slew were both killed by weapons, so had physical forms.

Mandos · 01-03-2003, 04:52 PM

haha. no we do not need it in two forums. i had a little mix up. how do i take it off one?

Maeglin · 01-03-2003, 04:52 PM

Are we absolutely sure he died? His body did no doubt. I cant remember what the book says...

Mandos · 01-03-2003, 04:55 PM

hmm..well the balrog was a Mai like Gandalf. that is a good question. i think that he did die though. look at the other balrogs that were destroyed in the Silmarillion. we never heard of them coming back. perhaps since they were evil, they dont get that chance

doug*platypus · 01-03-2003, 11:41 PM

To add to Manwe's answer, Gandalf's battle with the Balrog lasted from the time he fell, all the way down to the bowels of the earth, then back all the way up to the peak of Zirak-Zigil, and then some more. The final blow was just the killing stroke. Looked to me too much like a power up attack from some cheesy computer game, though. Maybe to boost sales of PS2's TTT game?? If you haven't read the Good Book and are a little sceptical about the above paragraph, I hear the Extended DVD will clear it up. The Balrog definitely died by the way, though I didn't see much of the "smote" or the "ruin" that Gandy was talking about. Once again PJ and co rip off a quote without taking it deeper than the surface.

Alex Chamois · 01-04-2003, 06:01 AM

Film is a visual medium. Don't you think the killing blow had to be visually spectacular to illustrate to the audience what was going on? An invisible power struggle worked once (the wizard's duel at Orthanc), but for the balrog, we needed to actually see Gandalf gather power and then strike. Besides, if they are made of the same stuff, and one has a physical form that can be damaged (Gandalf), then the other one has to too

Maeglin · 01-04-2003, 11:10 AM

Not neccesarley. Allthough Sauron survived his "death" and he was a mai too. Perhaps all the ancient balrogs who died are smiths inside Barad Dûr.

the mortal elf · 01-04-2003, 02:21 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> How can this lightining kill a powerful servant of Morgoth? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You could argue that since Glamdring was out of Gondolin, where quite a few Balrogs got there tails whooped, that the lightning was reasonable. The lightning was a bit much to us know it alls, since we understand that Glamdring itself could get the Balrog. But our ignorant friends (i.e. non readers) would have no idea of Glamdring's origins (or about Gondolin at all) and would be confused if a 'normal' sword just killed this thing that Gandalf's been fighting with for hours/days (I don't know) in one stroke. Sorry, I know that's a very confusing explanation.

Alex Chamois · 01-04-2003, 09:05 PM

lol Maeglinand good point, Mortal Elf

01-03-2003, 12:43 PM	#1
Mandos Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Panama City, Florida Posts: 131	Killing the Balrog..... In TTT, when Gandalf and the Balrog is fighting on Zirak-zigil, Gandalf uses his sword to "hold" lightining in it and stabs the Balrog, killing him. How can this lightining kill a powerful servant of Morgoth? __________________ He came unto the timeless halls where shining fall the countless years and endless reigns the Elder King in Ilmarin on Mountain sheer

01-03-2003, 03:44 PM	#2
eleanor_niphredil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: england Posts: 805	Beats me. Magic Lightning? Powers from the heavens? Plain good luck? __________________ Here I am, brain the size of a planet, and they ask me to spend my time on this forum. And by the way, for any of you turning into a penguin, stop it. ~* I am Pippin took in the Female Fellowship*~

01-03-2003, 04:34 PM	#3
pherostien Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: that place over there Posts: 29	I thought the Balrog was shadow and flame. Why is the balrog a solid form? __________________ Alas i will no longer have AOL and will soon be at a new location. i just have to create it first.

01-03-2003, 04:39 PM	#4
Mandos Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Panama City, Florida Posts: 131	it seems that the balrog is semi-spirit, semi-physical. any other ideas as to what it is? __________________ He came unto the timeless halls where shining fall the countless years and endless reigns the Elder King in Ilmarin on Mountain sheer

01-03-2003, 04:42 PM	#5
Manwe Sulimo Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Taurelilómëa-tumbalemorna Tumbaletaurëa Lómëanor Posts: 553	Do you really need this in two forums?<P>Easy answer to that question, though; the Balrogs were killed by weapons; Gothmog and the Balrog that Glorfindel slew were both killed by weapons, so had physical forms. __________________ "Monkeys learn sign language so they can tell the dolphins they love them."

01-03-2003, 04:52 PM	#6
Mandos Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Panama City, Florida Posts: 131	haha. no we do not need it in two forums. i had a little mix up. how do i take it off one? __________________ He came unto the timeless halls where shining fall the countless years and endless reigns the Elder King in Ilmarin on Mountain sheer

01-03-2003, 04:52 PM	#7
Maeglin Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nan Elmoth Posts: 136	Are we absolutely sure he died? His body did no doubt. I cant remember what the book says... __________________ The fool speaks of what he knows. The wise knows what he speaks of.

01-03-2003, 04:55 PM	#8
Mandos Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Panama City, Florida Posts: 131	hmm..well the balrog was a Mai like Gandalf. that is a good question. i think that he did die though. look at the other balrogs that were destroyed in the Silmarillion. we never heard of them coming back. perhaps since they were evil, they dont get that chance __________________ He came unto the timeless halls where shining fall the countless years and endless reigns the Elder King in Ilmarin on Mountain sheer

01-03-2003, 11:41 PM	#9
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	To add to Manwe's answer, Gandalf's battle with the Balrog lasted from the time he fell, all the way down to the bowels of the earth, then back all the way up to the peak of Zirak-Zigil, and then some more. The final blow was just the killing stroke. Looked to me too much like a power up attack from some cheesy computer game, though. Maybe to boost sales of PS2's TTT game?? <P>If you haven't read the Good Book and are a little sceptical about the above paragraph, I hear the Extended DVD will clear it up. <P>The Balrog <B>definitely</B> died by the way, though I didn't see much of the "smote" or the "ruin" that Gandy was talking about. Once <B>again</B> PJ and co rip off a quote without taking it deeper than the surface. __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

01-04-2003, 06:01 AM	#10
Alex Chamois Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Melbourne Posts: 36	Film is a visual medium. Don't you think the killing blow had to be visually spectacular to illustrate to the audience what was going on? An invisible power struggle worked once (the wizard's duel at Orthanc), but for the balrog, we needed to actually see Gandalf gather power and then strike. Besides, if they are made of the same stuff, and one has a physical form that can be damaged (Gandalf), then the other one has to too

01-04-2003, 11:10 AM	#11
Maeglin Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nan Elmoth Posts: 136	Not neccesarley. Allthough Sauron survived his "death" and he was a mai too. Perhaps all the ancient balrogs who died are smiths inside Barad Dûr. __________________ The fool speaks of what he knows. The wise knows what he speaks of.

01-04-2003, 02:21 PM	#12
the mortal elf Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away... Posts: 201	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> How can this lightining kill a powerful servant of Morgoth? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You could argue that since Glamdring was out of Gondolin, where quite a few Balrogs got there tails whooped, that the lightning was reasonable. The lightning was a bit much to us know it alls, since we understand that Glamdring itself could get the Balrog. But our ignorant friends (i.e. non readers) would have no idea of Glamdring's origins (or about Gondolin at all) and would be confused if a 'normal' sword just killed this thing that Gandalf's been fighting with for hours/days (I don't know) in one stroke. Sorry, I know that's a very confusing explanation. __________________ My imaginary friend says you have problems.

01-04-2003, 09:05 PM	#13
Alex Chamois Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Melbourne Posts: 36	lol Maeglin<P>and good point, Mortal Elf