Annoying lines - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Araen · 03-29-2002, 08:31 AM

Aragorn: Not as long as we remain true to each other. We will not abandon Merry and Pippin to torment and death. Not while we have strength left. Leave all that can be spared behind, we travel light. Let us hunt some orc.This is one of hte most beautful lines in the film, until you get to Let us hunt some orc. Any one else agree or have other lines that bother them?

Gorothlammothiel · 03-29-2002, 11:25 AM

I know it has been told many a time before but the line...."If you want him, come and claim him"...really annoys me. Was it actually necessary? Would you consider that appropriate for Arwen to say?

Araen · 03-29-2002, 11:36 AM

I hate that one too. PJ butcherd Arwen. Me no like Liv Tyler. I didn't think she could act ebfore I saw LotR;FotR and now I know she can't. To make things worse she is now staring out at me from all my teen magazines. Gah.

Gorothlammothiel · 03-29-2002, 11:40 AM

lol.......I don't think that PJ "butchered" Arwen, he just gave her a little more action in the first part....it's an interpretation I guess but I still don't think that that line was necessary.....

03-29-2002, 12:02 PM

I think that Liv Tyler shouldn't have even been in the movie, her part was totally unnessecary!!!

Araen · 03-29-2002, 12:20 PM

I love Arwen in the books though. SHe seemed very strong without having to get out there and fight.

Tigerlily Gamgee · 03-29-2002, 12:41 PM

Why are there so many movie Arwen haters? I really had no problem with that. The only line that gets to me is..."Will you look into the mirror", "What will I see?" - & that is only because of the way that the lines are delivered, it's a little odd.

ElanorGamgee · 03-29-2002, 12:54 PM

I don't really like "Nobody tosses a dwarf," and "Not the beard!" Too silly for such a dangerous situation, in my opinion.

Araen · 03-29-2002, 01:17 PM

Yeah I agree.... way to sily. I liked all the lines in Lothlorien though and I was crying when Boromir was talking to Aragorn about his city. (he won't see it again. ::Sob:: was how I was acting. Friends still haven't let me live it down.)

MYyyPreciousSS · 03-29-2002, 01:49 PM

I have no problem with Arwens part in the movie because I can see why PJ did it and "If you want him, come and claim him" didn't bother me. The "Nobody tosses a dwarf" was fine I thought too. (If you think of it in a way without a secret meaning)He's just a dwarf with some pride even in a dangerous situation. As far as the "Lets hunt some Orc" I thought it was fine when I first saw the movie, but after the third time, it sounded kinda stupid. One qoute that most people thought was really touching, when Boromir is dying and Aragon says something "something.... My king" (Sorry, I've forgotten the words)But I thought it was just really corny.

Fingolas · 03-29-2002, 02:27 PM

Hi All, I’ve never had a problem with the expansion of Arwen’s role in the movies. And here’s why. When considering the differences between the books and the movies, I always ask myself WWTD, what would Tolkien do? If I can imagine Tolkien making this change then I can live with it. Of course whether Tolkien would in fact consider these changes is pure speculation, but you get the idea.1. I can imagine Tolkien dropping the Bombadil character. And Old Man Willow. All things considered the plot can move along without them. Although they were wonderful characters and added to the flavor of the story2. I don’t think Tolkien would have dropped the Barrow-wight scene, although he would have to come up with another way to rescue them in the absence of Tom Bombadil.3. I can imagine him expanding Arwen’s role. It adds to character development and helps the reader/audience relate to Aragorns character. A strong female adds a lot of interest. Think of Eowyn and Galadriel. 4. I cannot imagine him writing a line like, “Nobody tosses a dwarf”. It has nothing but a 20th century connotation and has nothing to do with the third age.5. I cannot imagine him having Gimli and Aragorn standing atop a crumbling bridge/staircase in Moria and moving around so that it sways in a particular direction. Think about it. A stone column that weighs several hundred thousand tons. A man and a Dwarf that weigh a few hundred pounds. The column is balanced so precariously that by just shifting their weight they can make it sway one way or another. I think that Tolkien would have thought it ridiculous.6. I can just barely imagine him having Arwen saying,” If you want him, come and claim him”. Perhaps not that exact line but some other challenge.7. I can imagine him writing a line like,” Let us hunt some orc”.8. I very definitely cannot imagine him having Legolas “shield surfing” at Helms Deep. I’ve got a real hang up with this one! 9. I don’t think that Tolkien would have had orcs climbing the walls like spiders in Moria. If that is the case, will they climb the walls at Helms Deep, or will they be forced by the constraints of gravity to use ladders as in the books?Tolkien’s style of fantasy writing was always based in reality. Fantasy based in reality…Hmmmmm.Anyway, as I’ve stated in other posts, one of the reasons that Tolkiens works have so much weight to them, and are so “believable”, is that he never did anything to take you out of Middle Earth once you entered it. Anything that didn’t relate to Middle Earth was not included. Lines such as the ones we are discussing, and cheap movie stunts like shield surfing tend to jerk you out of ME back to the real world and break the spell so to speak. Cheers!

Thinhyandoiel · 03-29-2002, 05:59 PM

I agree with Fingolas, except it was Frodo, not Gimli who was with Aragorn on that stone pillar thingy. But I also, had no problems with Arwen's expanded role, or the omission of Bombadil (though I really woulda liked to see him). I just missed Glorfindel That's all.

Niere-Teleliniel · 03-29-2002, 06:20 PM

I would have been perfectly happy with Glorfindel in the movie instead of Arwen. I liked her better when she was a mysterious background character. But, I can understand why she was given a bigger role; there really aren’t that many big female characters in FOTR besides Galadriel.

03-29-2002, 07:09 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I don’t think that Tolkien would have had orcs climbing the walls like spiders in Moria. If that is the case, will they climb the walls at Helms Deep, or will they be forced by the constraints of gravity to use ladders as in the books? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>This is a really good point. I saw the film again today and was wondering 'since when have orcs been able to do that?!' And yes, during the TTT preview they showed orcs using ladders to try to climb the walls of Helm's Deep.

Birdland · 03-29-2002, 08:37 PM

The lines that bothered me the most after seeing the movie again today was the whole "Farmer Maggot" sequence to introduce Merry and Pippin in the mix. I always thought that scene was rather weak. And when Frodo shouts "Get off the road!" and they're hiding from the Rider, even though Merry and Pippin are totally clueless about what is going on. Just didn't seem to be a well thought out sequence. Oh, well - at least he got the two Hobbits into the film before they reached Bree.

Aroaraniel · 03-29-2002, 08:54 PM

I agree. They should of at least, if not Crickhollow, they should of had Merry and Pippin in on all this from the beginning. It is a bit odd how they "just drop in", you know?? But, I kinda liked Arwen in the movie. They don't have a lot of girl characters in the movie, so it was a nice change, even though with Eowyn in the new one, we'll see a bit more ladies, it was nice to have Arwen in it. (Even though the line, "If you want him, come and claim him" is kinda corny)

Kalimac · 03-29-2002, 11:40 PM

The "Nobody tosses a Dwarf" line bothered me not because of any off-color connotations (the first time I saw the movie, I didn't know there were any ) but because it just seemed like an unlikely time for Gimli to be getting an attitude, so to speak. Obviously it's very in character for him to be proud and stubborn and reluctant to be helped and so forth, but in a situation where it looks like he's under attack on the verge of plunging to sudden and nasty death it just doesn't seem likely that he would pick a fight like that, likelier he would do whatever got him over the gap the fastest and only think to gripe about it afterwards.As for Arwen, I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but when I first read the books I had a very difficult time even being aware that she was there, let alone getting an impression of whether she was naturally strong. Probably it's because I was fairly young (ten) and at the age where romantic subplots are something to be read through as quickly as possible on the way to the adventurous stuff, but ever since then I'd never really been able to think of Arwen as a fleshed-out character; she just turned up in the end, bravely renounced her immortality, and married Aragorn. It was very impressive, but I never really got a sense of what her personality was like. Until the Appendices, of course, but I didn't read those until much later...

Enedhil · 03-30-2002, 11:22 AM

The 'nobody tosses a dwarf' and 'lets hunt some orc' lines don't annoy me. The only line that really bothered me was the 'it must be taken back and cast into the firey chasm from whence it came.' that Elrond says at the council in Rivendell...*cringes* it is sooo dreadful!

Polly Sandybanks · 03-30-2002, 11:32 AM

I agree with those of you that said that Arwen's lines are annoying. I have never had a problem with Liv Tyler, and I still don't.. but it just sounds so silly when she says "If you want him, come and claim him." and "Let it pass to him".. or something. I don't like that.

Samwise · 03-30-2002, 03:14 PM

Hm. Can't think of any lines that annoyed me. Only saw the movie once though, and I was too busy being enthralled by the whole thing. Hullo, Polly! Welcome t' th' 'Downs! <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>"Where did you come by that, Sam?" asked Pippin. "I've never heard those words before." Sam muttered something inaudible. "It's out of his own head, of course!" said Frodo. "I am learning a lot about Sam Gamgee on this journey. First he was a conspirator, now he's a jester. He'll end up by becoming a wizard--or a warrior! " "I hope not." said Sam. "I don't want to be neither! " <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gorothlammothiel · 03-30-2002, 05:41 PM

In reply to Fingolas and Elessar, I always thought (from 1st to 11th time) that the creatures crawling the walls of Moria were Goblins. That's why they looked different to the orcs and made different noises (and of course climbed walls)......am I wrong??

Fingolas · 03-31-2002, 08:21 AM

Gorothlammothiel,That’s a good question, and I’m not sure of the answer. The only time that I can remember Tolkien mentioning Goblins is in The Hobbit. It has always seemed to me that at some point between the publication of The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings, Goblins turned into Orcs. I assumed that Tolkien was still fleshing out these characters, so to speak. Perhaps someone with a little more knowledge on this can speak to it.Cheers! Just found this ...http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htmIs there a difference between an 'Orc' and a 'Goblin'? The following quote from the foreword to The Hobbit sheds some light on this: "[The word 'Orc'] occurs in one or two places but is usually translated goblin (or hobgoblin for the larger kinds)." (Hence the statement above; 'especially the smaller kinds'). This entry concentrates on the goblins of the Grey and Misty Mountains simply because it is these Orcs that Tolkien most frequently refers to by the term 'goblin'. The word 'goblin' is also used occasionally and indiscriminately in The Lord of the Rings; it never occurs in the The Silmarillion.[ March 31, 2002: Message edited by: Fingolas ]

Polly Sandybanks · 03-31-2002, 08:28 AM

Thank you Samwise. I think that the rest of the movie is absolutely fantastic! And actually I'm not that annoyed by Arwen either.. but that's the thing that would annoy me the most though.

Birdland · 03-31-2002, 11:04 AM

I noticed when the fellowship first enters Moria in the movie, Legolas looks around at the dead dwarves and says "Goblins". (I can't remember if there was more to the line, and can't find the script link.)Then, in Balin's tomb chamber, he says "Orcs!"So I assume that PJ thought there was some kind of difference, but frankly, I'd be hard pressed to tell you what it is. One Orc looks pretty much like another to me.Now Saruman's Fighting Uruk-Hai definitely looked different![ March 31, 2002: Message edited by: Birdland ]

Merry · 03-31-2002, 02:40 PM

I agree with Fingolas. Some of the parts are rather crucial in the books, and they left them out of the movie! One part they totally should have left in the movie is when Frodo says, "Remember, the name Baggins should not be mentioned. I am Mr. Underhill if any name is to be given." This is a crucial point because later on we find out that that's how Strider finds Frodo.

Niere-Teleliniel · 03-31-2002, 02:52 PM

I agree Merry. It would have actually been kinda cool if they had showed Strider eavesdropping on them, and then following them and climbing over the wall. Welcome to the Downs![ March 31, 2002: Message edited by: Niere-Teleliniel ]

Aralaithiel · 03-31-2002, 04:36 PM

I thought the extra Arwen stuff was OK, but it could have been written better. The love scene between Arwen & Aragorn I could have done without. And yes Merry, they needed to include the bit where Frodo tells them to call him Mister Underhill. I loved the "Nobody tosses this dwarf!" line!!! And I am anxiously awaiting the shield surfing scene! Woohoooo!!!!! Hey...this is my 500th post! Go me!

Vardadurwen · 05-25-2002, 06:57 PM

There weren't really many lines that bothered me, although I do feel that Liv Tyler was entirely unsuited for the part of Arwen. To me she was just NOT right for the role! I thought the way that PJ introduced Merry and Pippin was a good way to do it because it showed their fun-loving nature...lol. Also, Birdland, you probably know this, but when Frodo shouts "Get off the road!", Merry and Pippin probably just assume that Frodo is thinking they should all hide in case Farmer Maggot tries to come after them, until they realize that the horseman is not, in fact, Farmer Maggot but something else!

QuickSlash · 05-25-2002, 07:24 PM

The second I saw this thread, I thought of "Let's hunt some orc." I found that a tad unnecessary. I also didn't like the part in the beginning where Frodo tells Sam to dance with Rose. Not sure why, but it certainly wasn't my favorite part. On the role of Arwen, this is the 21st century and popular stories where women in power are barely mentioned are thinning out. PJ had to strengthen Arwen's role so that there would be three important female characters. It doesn't bother me much.

Kettle of fish · 05-26-2002, 04:53 AM

I think they gave Arwen a more active role, because just giving her a fighting role (however brief) would introduce her as a strong character - which would be much harder to do if they just showed her at a feast her father gave.

Joy · 05-26-2002, 02:14 PM

When I saw this thread, I immediately thought of Arwen saying, "What's this, A Ranger caught of his guard!" to Aragorn.That was not necessary.The other lines: dwarf tossing, Come and claim him, orc hunting were ok with me. Though, "Let's hunt some orc" seem to remind me more of Gimli.

Aragorn Husband of Arwen · 05-26-2002, 06:55 PM

"Let us hunt some orc" Is very un-Aragorn like. Sounds like something Arnold or Han Solo would say.Other than that, I think the rest of the movie was done very well. For a 3 hour movie, theres a lot that was put in there, but also a lot left out. http://playroost.com/

Keeper-of-Vilya · 05-26-2002, 08:45 PM

I don't like Arwen's character in the movie either !I don't have a problem with the "Nobody tosses a dwarf, or Not the beard" lines. "let's hunt some orc" is ok... Why has no one mentioned the most annoying line in the entire movie yet ? Do I have to say it .... "Eight there are yet nine there were set out from Rivendell. Tell me where is Gandalf for I wish very much to speak with him" *Shudders* THAT is the most annoying line in the movie as far as I am concerned ! !

Kalla · 05-26-2002, 09:17 PM

I didn't have a problem with Arwen's character in the book, but I just don't know why she was added to the movie so early save for publicity? I actually felt it was taking away from Frodo's character to have her "save" him--when she has no special powers given in the book at that point, instead of Frodo standing up to the nine with his strength of will. Instead of a strong hardy hobbit that remarkably stood up to such enemies, we have a drained, weak hobbit that was saved by the grace of a woman. I'm a woman and I guess I just thought that the female characters in the book were strong enough without enhancement, and it sorta ticked me off that that "enhancement" took away from Frodo's character...in my opinion. :P I dunno, that is just why I had a problem with that part...others might have other reasons.

Samwise · 05-26-2002, 09:28 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> posted May 26, 2002 11:17 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I didn't have a problem with Arwen's character in the book, but I just don't know why she was added to the movie so early save for publicity? I actually felt it was taking away from Frodo's character to have her "save" him--when she has no special powers given in the book at that point, instead of Frodo standing up to the nine with his strength of will. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I agree with that, Kalla. Arwen being there at that point was unecessary. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>"So my plan is all spoilt!" said Frodo. "It is no good trying to escape you. But I'm glad, Sam. It is plain that we were meant to go together. " <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Frodo Baggins · 05-28-2002, 09:33 AM

The scene at the ford was Frodo's fines moment in the book, "By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall have neither me nor the Ring" yeah!! Love it. Oh well, can't have everything. no on tosses a dwarf was funny, and the "Not the beard" was completely dwarvish.

Kalla · 05-28-2002, 10:17 AM

Ohhhh, I'm a haunting spirit..KEWL!!!

Samwise · 05-28-2002, 09:53 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>The scene at the ford was Frodo's fines moment in the book, "By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall have neither me nor the Ring" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes, Mister Frodo, you could say the moment was a fine one, I just didn't like when you went unconcious after that.... <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>For some time Frodo and Sam managed to keep up with the others, but after a while they lagged behind. Sam's cut was burning like fire, and his head felt light. In spite of the shining sun the wind felt chill. He shivered. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Araen · 05-29-2002, 08:42 AM

Samwise and Frodo, you two are scaring me.

Bramblerose Gamgee-Took · 05-30-2002, 04:56 AM

I didnt like the 'Hunt ORc' thing. Its sounded, well, too American. I agree with Aragorn Husband of Arwen, it sounded like something Arnold Swhazaneggar (that is atrocious spelling) would say

03-29-2002, 08:31 AM	#1
Araen Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 70	Annoying lines Aragorn: Not as long as we remain true to each other. We will not abandon Merry and Pippin to torment and death. Not while we have strength left. Leave all that can be spared behind, we travel light. Let us hunt some orc.<P>This is one of hte most beautful lines in the film, until you get to Let us hunt some orc. Any one else agree or have other lines that bother them? __________________ "Where is the horse and the rider, where is the horn that was blowing, they have passed like rain on the mountains, like wind in the meadow, the days are damned in the west? behind the hills? there are shadows... "

03-29-2002, 11:25 AM	#2
Gorothlammothiel Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Sitting in front of my preferred world.... Posts: 254	I know it has been told many a time before but the line....<P>"If you want him, come and claim him"<P>...really annoys me. Was it actually necessary? Would you consider that appropriate for Arwen to say?

03-29-2002, 11:36 AM	#3
Araen Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 70	I hate that one too. PJ butcherd Arwen. Me no like Liv Tyler. I didn't think she could act ebfore I saw LotR;FotR and now I know she can't. To make things worse she is now staring out at me from all my teen magazines. Gah. __________________ "Where is the horse and the rider, where is the horn that was blowing, they have passed like rain on the mountains, like wind in the meadow, the days are damned in the west? behind the hills? there are shadows... "

03-29-2002, 12:20 PM	#6
Araen Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 70	I love Arwen in the books though. SHe seemed very strong without having to get out there and fight. __________________ "Where is the horse and the rider, where is the horn that was blowing, they have passed like rain on the mountains, like wind in the meadow, the days are damned in the west? behind the hills? there are shadows... "

03-29-2002, 12:41 PM	#7
Tigerlily Gamgee Hostess of Spirits Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Meduseld Posts: 1,055	Why are there so many movie Arwen haters? I really had no problem with that. The only line that gets to me is..."Will you look into the mirror", "What will I see?" - & that is only because of the way that the lines are delivered, it's a little odd. __________________ ~ ExerciseJunky.com (Hobbits fitness of choice!)~ ~Lady of Rohan: An Eowyn Fansite ~ ~The NEW/OLD Barrow Downs Photo Page~

03-29-2002, 11:40 AM	#4
Gorothlammothiel Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Sitting in front of my preferred world.... Posts: 254	lol.......I don't think that PJ "butchered" Arwen, he just gave her a little more action in the first part....it's an interpretation I guess but I still don't think that that line was necessary.....

03-29-2002, 12:02 PM	#5
nuquernaalqua Guest Posts: n/a	I think that Liv Tyler shouldn't have even been in the movie, her part was totally unnessecary!!!

03-29-2002, 12:54 PM	#8
ElanorGamgee Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 314	I don't really like "Nobody tosses a dwarf," and "Not the beard!" Too silly for such a dangerous situation, in my opinion. __________________ Soli Deo Gloria

03-29-2002, 01:17 PM	#9
Araen Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 70	Yeah I agree.... way to sily. I liked all the lines in Lothlorien though and I was crying when Boromir was talking to Aragorn about his city. (he won't see it again. ::Sob:: was how I was acting. Friends still haven't let me live it down.) __________________ "Where is the horse and the rider, where is the horn that was blowing, they have passed like rain on the mountains, like wind in the meadow, the days are damned in the west? behind the hills? there are shadows... "

03-29-2002, 01:49 PM	#10
MYyyPreciousSS Wight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: the Here and Now Posts: 113	I have no problem with Arwens part in the movie because I can see why PJ did it and "If you want him, come and claim him" didn't bother me. The "Nobody tosses a dwarf" was fine I thought too. (If you think of it in a way without a secret meaning)He's just a dwarf with some pride even in a dangerous situation. As far as the "Lets hunt some Orc" I thought it was fine when I first saw the movie, but after the third time, it sounded kinda stupid. <BR>One qoute that most people thought was really touching, when Boromir is dying and Aragon says something "<I>something</I>.... My king" (Sorry, I've forgotten the words)But I thought it was just really corny. __________________ Then the heart of Éowyn changed, or else at last she understood it. And suddenly her winter passed, and the sun shone on her. "My Preciousss" - the line that started the obsession.

03-29-2002, 02:27 PM	#11
Fingolas Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: behind that tree over there Posts: 32	Hi All,<BR> I’ve never had a problem with the expansion of Arwen’s role in the movies. And here’s why. <BR> When considering the differences between the books and the movies, I always ask myself WWTD, what would Tolkien do? If I can imagine Tolkien making this change then I can live with it. Of course whether Tolkien would in fact consider these changes is pure speculation, but you get the idea.<P>1. I can imagine Tolkien dropping the Bombadil character. And Old Man Willow. All things considered the plot can move along without them. Although they were wonderful characters and added to the flavor of the story<P>2. I don’t think Tolkien would have dropped the Barrow-wight scene, although he would have to come up with another way to rescue them in the absence of Tom Bombadil.<P>3. I can imagine him expanding Arwen’s role. It adds to character development and helps the reader/audience relate to Aragorns character. A strong female adds a lot of interest. Think of Eowyn and Galadriel. <P>4. I cannot imagine him writing a line like, “Nobody tosses a dwarf”. It has nothing but a 20th century connotation and has nothing to do with the third age.<P>5. I cannot imagine him having Gimli and Aragorn standing atop a crumbling bridge/staircase in Moria and moving around so that it sways in a particular direction. Think about it. A stone column that weighs several hundred thousand tons. A man and a Dwarf that weigh a few hundred pounds. The column is balanced so precariously that by just shifting their weight they can make it sway one way or another. I think that Tolkien would have thought it ridiculous.<P>6. I can just barely imagine him having Arwen saying,” If you want him, come and claim him”. Perhaps not that exact line but some other challenge.<P>7. I can imagine him writing a line like,” Let us hunt some orc”.<P>8. I very definitely cannot imagine him having Legolas “shield surfing” at Helms Deep. I’ve got a real hang up with this one!<BR> <BR>9. I don’t think that Tolkien would have had orcs climbing the walls like spiders in Moria. If that is the case, will they climb the walls at Helms Deep, or will they be forced by the constraints of gravity to use ladders as in the books?<P>Tolkien’s style of fantasy writing was always based in reality. Fantasy based in reality…Hmmmmm.<P>Anyway, as I’ve stated in other posts, one of the reasons that Tolkiens works have so much weight to them, and are so “believable”, is that he never did anything to take you out of Middle Earth once you entered it. Anything that didn’t relate to Middle Earth was not included. Lines such as the ones we are discussing, and cheap movie stunts like shield surfing tend to jerk you out of ME back to the real world and break the spell so to speak.<P> Cheers! __________________ It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out of your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to.

03-29-2002, 05:59 PM	#12
Thinhyandoiel Wight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 187	I agree with Fingolas, except it was Frodo, not Gimli who was with Aragorn on that stone pillar thingy. But I also, had no problems with Arwen's expanded role, or the omission of Bombadil (though I really woulda liked to see him). I just missed Glorfindel That's all. __________________ In gwidh ristennen, i fae narchannen I lach Anor ed ardhon gwannen Caled veleg, ethuiannen

03-29-2002, 06:20 PM	#13
Niere-Teleliniel Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a messy room on the third floor. Posts: 67	I would have been perfectly happy with Glorfindel in the movie instead of Arwen. I liked her better when she was a mysterious background character. But, I can understand why she was given a bigger role; there really aren’t that many big female characters in FOTR besides Galadriel. __________________ He felt that his whole life was some kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.... ~Douglas Adams

03-29-2002, 07:09 PM	#14
Elessar Guest Posts: n/a	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I don’t think that Tolkien would have had orcs climbing the walls like spiders in Moria. If that is the case, will they climb the walls at Helms Deep, or will they be forced by the constraints of gravity to use ladders as in the books?<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is a really good point. I saw the film again today and was wondering 'since when have orcs been able to do that?!' And yes, during the TTT preview they showed orcs using ladders to try to climb the walls of Helm's Deep.

03-29-2002, 08:37 PM	#15
Birdland Ghastly Neekerbreeker Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the banks of the mighty Scioto Posts: 1,751	The lines that bothered me the most after seeing the movie again today was the whole "Farmer Maggot" sequence to introduce Merry and Pippin in the mix. I always thought that scene was rather weak. And when Frodo shouts "Get off the road!" and they're hiding from the Rider, even though Merry and Pippin are totally clueless about what is going on. Just didn't seem to be a well thought out sequence. <P>Oh, well - at least he got the two Hobbits into the film before they reached Bree.

03-29-2002, 08:54 PM	#16
Aroaraniel Wight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Buckland Posts: 158	I agree. They should of at least, if not Crickhollow, they should of had Merry and Pippin in on all this from the beginning. It is a bit odd how they "just drop in", you know?? But, I kinda liked Arwen in the movie. They don't have a lot of girl characters in the movie, so it was a nice change, even though with Eowyn in the new one, we'll see a bit more ladies, it was nice to have Arwen in it. (Even though the line, "If you want him, come and claim him" is kinda corny) __________________ Pippin and Merry rule! -- Lissenen ar' maska'lalaith tenna' lye omentuva!

03-29-2002, 11:40 PM	#17
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	The "Nobody tosses a Dwarf" line bothered me not because of any off-color connotations (the first time I saw the movie, I didn't know there were any ) but because it just seemed like an unlikely time for Gimli to be getting an attitude, so to speak. Obviously it's very in character for him to be proud and stubborn and reluctant to be helped and so forth, but in a situation where it looks like he's under attack on the verge of plunging to sudden and nasty death it just doesn't seem likely that he would pick a fight like that, likelier he would do whatever got him over the gap the fastest and only think to gripe about it afterwards.<P>As for Arwen, I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but when I first read the books I had a very difficult time even being aware that she was there, let alone getting an impression of whether she was naturally strong. Probably it's because I was fairly young (ten) and at the age where romantic subplots are something to be read through as quickly as possible on the way to the adventurous stuff, but ever since then I'd never really been able to think of Arwen as a fleshed-out character; she just turned up in the end, bravely renounced her immortality, and married Aragorn. It was very impressive, but I never really got a sense of what her personality was like. Until the Appendices, of course, but I didn't read those until much later... __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.

03-30-2002, 11:22 AM	#18
Enedhil Wight Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Scotland Posts: 102	The 'nobody tosses a dwarf' and 'lets hunt some orc' lines don't annoy me. The only line that really bothered me was the 'it must be taken back and cast into the firey chasm from whence it came.' that Elrond says at the council in Rivendell...cringes it is sooo dreadful! __________________ Meanwhile these three remain: Faith, Hope and Love. And the greatest of these is Love.

03-30-2002, 11:32 AM	#19
Polly Sandybanks Pile O'Bones Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 12	I agree with those of you that said that Arwen's lines are annoying. I have never had a problem with Liv Tyler, and I still don't.. but it just sounds so silly when she says "If you want him, come and claim him." and "Let it pass to him".. or something. I don't like that. __________________ In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a hobbit-hole, and that means comfort.

03-30-2002, 03:14 PM	#20
Samwise Faithful Spirit Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: #3 Bagshot Row, Petaluma, Ca Posts: 2,299	Hm. Can't think of any lines that annoyed me. Only saw the movie once though, and I was too busy being enthralled by the whole thing. <BR>Hullo, Polly! Welcome t' th' 'Downs!<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>"Where did you come by that, Sam?" asked Pippin. "I've never heard those words before."<BR>Sam muttered something inaudible.<BR>"It's out of his own head, of course!" said Frodo. "I am learning a lot about Sam Gamgee on this journey. First he was a conspirator, now he's a jester. He'll end up by becoming a wizard--or a warrior! "<BR>"I hope not." said Sam. "I don't want to be neither! " <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> __________________ Giving thanks unto the Father...In whom we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins.~Colossians1:12a,14 * * * * * * * I am Samwise son of Hamfast, if by hoe or trowel I can get these weeds out of your garden, I will.You have my shears!;)

03-30-2002, 05:41 PM	#21
Gorothlammothiel Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Sitting in front of my preferred world.... Posts: 254	In reply to Fingolas and Elessar, I always thought (from 1st to 11th time) that the creatures crawling the walls of Moria were Goblins. That's why they looked different to the orcs and made different noises (and of course climbed walls)......am I wrong??

03-31-2002, 08:21 AM	#22
Fingolas Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: behind that tree over there Posts: 32	Gorothlammothiel,<P>That’s a good question, and I’m not sure of the answer. The only time that I can remember Tolkien mentioning Goblins is in The Hobbit. It has always seemed to me that at some point between the publication of The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings, Goblins turned into Orcs. I assumed that Tolkien was still fleshing out these characters, so to speak.<BR> Perhaps someone with a little more knowledge on this can speak to it.<P>Cheers!<P><BR>Just found this ...http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm<P>Is there a difference between an 'Orc' and a 'Goblin'? The following quote from the foreword to The Hobbit sheds some light on this: "[The word 'Orc'] occurs in one or two places but is usually translated goblin (or hobgoblin for the larger kinds)." (Hence the statement above; 'especially the smaller kinds'). This entry concentrates on the goblins of the Grey and Misty Mountains simply because it is these Orcs that Tolkien most frequently refers to by the term 'goblin'. <BR>The word 'goblin' is also used occasionally and indiscriminately in The Lord of the Rings; it never occurs in the The Silmarillion.<p>[ March 31, 2002: Message edited by: Fingolas ] __________________ It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out of your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to.

03-31-2002, 08:28 AM	#23
Polly Sandybanks Pile O'Bones Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 12	Thank you Samwise. <P>I think that the rest of the movie is absolutely fantastic! And actually I'm not <B>that</B> annoyed by Arwen either.. but that's the thing that would annoy me the most though. __________________ In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a hobbit-hole, and that means comfort.

03-31-2002, 11:04 AM	#24
Birdland Ghastly Neekerbreeker Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the banks of the mighty Scioto Posts: 1,751	I noticed when the fellowship first enters Moria in the movie, Legolas looks around at the dead dwarves and says "Goblins". (I can't remember if there was more to the line, and can't find the script link.)<P>Then, in Balin's tomb chamber, he says "Orcs!"<P>So I assume that PJ thought there was some kind of difference, but frankly, I'd be hard pressed to tell you what it is. One Orc looks pretty much like another to me.<P>Now Saruman's Fighting Uruk-Hai definitely looked different!<p>[ March 31, 2002: Message edited by: Birdland ]

03-31-2002, 02:40 PM	#25
Merry Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 34	I agree with Fingolas. Some of the parts are rather crucial in the books, and they left them out of the movie! One part they totally should have left in the movie is when Frodo says, "Remember, the name Baggins should not be mentioned. I am Mr. Underhill if any name is to be given." This is a crucial point because later on we find out that that's how Strider finds Frodo. __________________ Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil for you are with me. Your rod and your staff, comfort me. -Psalm 23:4

03-31-2002, 02:52 PM	#26
Niere-Teleliniel Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a messy room on the third floor. Posts: 67	I agree Merry. It would have actually been kinda cool if they had showed Strider eavesdropping on them, and then following them and climbing over the wall. Welcome to the Downs!<p>[ March 31, 2002: Message edited by: Niere-Teleliniel ] __________________ He felt that his whole life was some kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.... ~Douglas Adams

03-31-2002, 04:36 PM	#27
Aralaithiel Ghost Eldaran Queen Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A remote mountain in Valinor Posts: 353	I thought the extra Arwen stuff was OK, but it could have been written better. The love scene between Arwen & Aragorn I could have done without.<BR>And yes Merry, they needed to include the bit where Frodo tells them to call him Mister Underhill.<BR>I loved the "Nobody tosses this dwarf!" line!!!<BR>And I am anxiously awaiting the shield surfing scene! Woohoooo!!!!! <BR>Hey...this is my 500th post! Go me! __________________ A lelyat, wen! (Quenya Elvish for "You go, girl!"

05-25-2002, 06:57 PM	#28
Vardadurwen Wight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 102	There weren't really many lines that bothered me, although I do feel that Liv Tyler was entirely unsuited for the part of Arwen. To me she was just NOT right for the role!<BR> I thought the way that PJ introduced Merry and Pippin was a good way to do it because it showed their fun-loving nature...lol.<BR> Also, Birdland, you probably know this, but <BR>when Frodo shouts "Get off the road!", Merry and Pippin probably just assume that Frodo is thinking they should all hide in case Farmer Maggot tries to come after them, until they realize that the horseman is not, in fact, Farmer Maggot but something else! __________________ 'In this phial,' she said, 'is caught the light of Earendil's star....May it be a light to you in dark places, when all other lights go out...' - Galadriel 'Now there's an eye-opener and no mistake!' - Samwise Gamgee

05-25-2002, 07:24 PM	#29
QuickSlash Wight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Not here. Posts: 121	The second I saw this thread, I thought of "Let's hunt some orc." I found that a tad unnecessary. I also didn't like the part in the beginning where Frodo tells Sam to dance with Rose. Not sure why, but it certainly wasn't my favorite part.<BR>On the role of Arwen, this is the 21st century and popular stories where women in power are barely mentioned are thinning out. PJ had to strengthen Arwen's role so that there would be three important female characters. It doesn't bother me much. __________________ We're here and now, but will we ever be again? / 'Cause I have found / All that shimmers in this world is sure to fade, away, again. -Shimmer, Fuel

05-26-2002, 04:53 AM	#30
Kettle of fish Wight Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 114	I think they gave Arwen a more active role, because just giving her a fighting role (however brief) would introduce her as a strong character - which would be much harder to do if they just showed her at a feast her father gave. __________________ The inimical is often more instructive than the benign. Between screams, try to pay attention.

05-26-2002, 02:14 PM	#31
Joy Spirit of a Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wandering Posts: 1,012	When I saw this thread, I immediately thought of Arwen saying, "What's this, A Ranger caught of his guard!" to Aragorn.<P>That was not necessary.<P>The other lines: dwarf tossing, Come and claim him, orc hunting were ok with me. Though, "Let's hunt some orc" seem to remind me more of Gimli. __________________ God bless, Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

05-26-2002, 06:55 PM	#32
Aragorn Husband of Arwen Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In the West... Posts: 30	"Let us hunt some orc" Is very un-Aragorn like. Sounds like something Arnold or Han Solo would say.<P>Other than that, I think the rest of the movie was done very well. For a 3 hour movie, theres a lot that was put in there, but also a lot left out. http://playroost.com/ __________________ Merry Christmas Everyone! Last edited by Aragorn Husband of Arwen; 09-24-2013 at 12:30 AM.

05-26-2002, 08:45 PM	#33
Keeper-of-Vilya Pile O'Bones Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Rivendell Posts: 19	I don't like Arwen's character in the movie either !<P>I don't have a problem with the "Nobody tosses a dwarf, or Not the beard" lines. "let's hunt some orc" is ok... <P>Why has no one mentioned the most annoying line in the entire movie yet ? Do I have to say it ....<P> "Eight there are yet nine there were set out from Rivendell. Tell me where is Gandalf for I wish very much to speak with him" <P>Shudders THAT is the most annoying line in the movie as far as I am concerned ! ! __________________ Few can see where their road leads them till they come to its end.

05-26-2002, 09:17 PM	#34
Kalla Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 57	I didn't have a problem with Arwen's character in the book, but I just don't know why she was added to the movie so early save for publicity? I actually felt it was taking away from Frodo's character to have her "save" him--when she has no special powers given in the book at that point, instead of Frodo standing up to the nine with his strength of will. Instead of a strong hardy hobbit that remarkably stood up to such enemies, we have a drained, weak hobbit that was saved by the grace of a woman. I'm a woman and I guess I just thought that the female characters in the book were strong enough without enhancement, and it sorta ticked me off that that "enhancement" took away from Frodo's character...in my opinion. :P I dunno, that is just why I had a problem with that part...others might have other reasons. __________________ "I wish the ring had never come to me...I wish none of this had happened." "So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."

05-26-2002, 09:28 PM	#35
Samwise Faithful Spirit Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: #3 Bagshot Row, Petaluma, Ca Posts: 2,299	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> posted May 26, 2002 11:17 PM <BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>I didn't have a problem with Arwen's character in the book, but I just don't know why she was added to the movie so early save for publicity? I actually felt it was taking away from Frodo's character to have her "save" him--when she has no special powers given in the book at that point, instead of Frodo standing up to the nine with his strength of will. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I agree with that, Kalla. Arwen being there at that point was unecessary.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>"So my plan is all spoilt!" said Frodo. "It is no good trying to escape you. But I'm glad, Sam. It is plain that we were meant to go together. " <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> __________________ Giving thanks unto the Father...In whom we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins.~Colossians1:12a,14 * * * * * * * I am Samwise son of Hamfast, if by hoe or trowel I can get these weeds out of your garden, I will.You have my shears!;)